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Old 2009-05-13, 15:23   Link #2081
typhonsentra
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Originally Posted by KiryuuKazumanosuke View Post
I don't get it; I've heard a lot of people saying there are "issues" but I haven't seen any specifics. Has anybody done a serious review, or can anybody point out any specific lines that are mistranslated or poorly phrased?
It's just some lines they sprinkle into Kyon's inner monologue that makes him more... teenager-y? Girls are hotties, that sort of thing. Basically the complaints from the first novel preview in the first manga volume from last year. Again, it doesn't kill the story but it definitely is a little distracting considering how we all perceive Kyon.
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Old 2009-05-13, 15:38   Link #2082
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
The translation for the manga is awesome by the way.
The manga preview in the novel suggests that they're incapable of keeping the translation for whatever Esper is supposed to be consistent, though.

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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
The novel translation, as I've said before, sucks major wangsticles.
I remember you saying you hadn't read the novel translation.

Aside from making Kyon sound slightly more human and cleaning up some of the ambuguity between narrator/character and tenses, both of which I'm pretty sure weren't intentional (B-T's translations were based off of the Chinese version, which is known to have... issues), and removing the honorifics, (big deal) it's perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
There's nothing wrong with the novel translation beside the inevitable nitpicks. The only "issues" with it are the typical "I need an excuse why I'm not buying it so I'm going to overexaggerate piddly personal issues other people had with it (since I haven't read it myself) or make up something wrong with it and hope no one calls me on it" issues.
Exactly. I thought it was the best translation they could come up with, considering.

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Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
Yeah, the ambiguity of whether he was saying something aloud or just thinking it was a big part of the narrative style, so making some of it explicitly "out loud" took away from that.
Pretty sure a lot of those were just the B-T translations being rather -crap-, though.

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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
It's just some lines they sprinkle into Kyon's inner monologue that makes him more... teenager-y? Girls are hotties, that sort of thing. Basically the complaints from the first novel preview in the first manga volume from last year. Again, it doesn't kill the story but it definitely is a little distracting considering how we all perceive Kyon.
I barely noticed the teenagery-ness. I did notice he was a lot more of an asshole though, which I consider an improvement... >_>
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Old 2009-05-13, 15:47   Link #2083
ijuinkun
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Pretty sure a lot of those were just the B-T translations being rather -crap-, though.
Actually, in the original Japanese, a lot of the time the text had Kyon saying things that had no quote marks on them. If other characters did not react as though he had spoken, then he PROBABLY wasn't speaking it aloud, but you couldn't be sure.
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Old 2009-05-13, 15:52   Link #2084
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
Actually, in the original Japanese, a lot of the time the text had Kyon saying things that had no quote marks on them. If other characters did not react as though he had spoken, then he PROBABLY wasn't speaking it aloud, but you couldn't be sure.
The novel translation did keep some of those too, but they cut out most of them... eh.

I'm pretty sure the tense thing is due to Chinese Translation Failure though.
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Old 2009-05-13, 19:03   Link #2085
Jintor
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I remember you saying you hadn't read the novel translation.
I am extrapolating based on the de facto existance of the novel translations, but to suit your stubborn temprement I'll pick up a copy of the novel when I'm next in the city. Just to torture myself.

Based on the extract, the novel is fine if you just want information, but if you're looking for a really good read...

Maybe I just have different standards to you guys. I expect everything I read to be somewhere around Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett/Neil Gaiman quality, and damned be everybody else.
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Old 2009-05-13, 19:07   Link #2086
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I am extrapolating based on the de facto existance of the novel translations
So, you're basically saying that fan translations are automatically better by default.

You sound like one of those JAPAN IS ALWAYS SUPERIOR, ALL DUBS SUCK people, seriously.

The novel translation was great. Spotty at times, but great. Haruhi is Haruhi, right?

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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Based on the extract, the novel is fine if you just want information, but if you're looking for a really good read...
What the hell was in the extract that made you so pissy about it?

The only lines I can see that would be a problem would be the "Principal Toupee" thing, which was honestly funny, and the "hottie" thing, which was eh and I forgot about it as soon as the book began to get awesome.

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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Maybe I just have different standards to you guys. I expect everything I read to be somewhere around Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett/Neil Gaiman quality, and damned be everybody else.
Haruhi is nowhere near Gaiman quality, especially not B-T's version.
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Old 2009-05-13, 19:10   Link #2087
Jintor
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No, Kaisos, the fan translations suck too. I said that somewhere.

I'm pretty sure we're just on quality standard differentiation.

I think Haruhi could be made to be near Gaiman quality. The concepts at the very least are definitely in the same ballpark; it just needs a translator/author that can go about it the right way... of course, having no understand of the worthiness of the Japanese standard to compare it to, I really don't have any idea about the source material.

Anyway, can we save this arguement until I actually pick up the novels? Then I'll have one less bloody overwhelming weakness.
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Old 2009-05-13, 19:22   Link #2088
Kaisos Erranon
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No, Kaisos, the fan translations suck too. I said that somewhere.
Right, sorry then.
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Old 2009-05-13, 21:48   Link #2089
besieger
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'm pretty sure the tense thing is due to Chinese Translation Failure though.
*throws white gloves*

I demand a duel to redeem my Chinese honour! Even though I'm not on the B-T translation staff!
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Old 2009-05-13, 22:28   Link #2090
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*throws white gloves*

I demand a duel to redeem my Chinese honour! Even though I'm not on the B-T translation staff!
Nonono... you're supposed to slap the person with a glove to initiate a duel... Like this!

*whacks besieger in the face with a steel gauntlet*

. . . Um... oops?
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-05-13, 22:36   Link #2091
bayoab
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I think Haruhi could be made to be near Gaiman quality. The concepts at the very least are definitely in the same ballpark; it just needs a translator/author that can go about it the right way... of course, having no understand of the worthiness of the Japanese standard to compare it to, I really don't have any idea about the source material.
But once you make it into something, you are no longer translating it. You are altering the source material and thus you are creating a separate piece of work. A translator's job is not to make it but to bring the same piece of work into another language as it already existed and the Haruhi novel translation does just that. Beside the small number of localizations that have already been pointed out by others, it has the exact same flavor as the original. The original writing is not the best thing since sliced bread. You can say Tanigawa isn't a great writer, but that doesn't mean something is wrong with the translation.

Then again... you seem to be bitching about it having not read the translation nor the original. So you are effectively comparing it to what you think it is like in your head instead of the actual work.
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Old 2009-05-13, 22:41   Link #2092
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
But once you make it into something, you are no longer translating it. You are altering the source material and thus you are creating a separate piece of work. A translator's job is not to make it but to bring the same piece of work into another language as it already existed and the Haruhi novel translation does just that. Beside the small number of localizations that have already been pointed out by others, it has the exact same flavor as the original. The original writing is not the best thing since sliced bread. You can say Tanigawa isn't a great writer, but that doesn't mean something is wrong with the translation.

Then again... you seem to be bitching about it having not read the translation nor the original. So you are effectively comparing it to what you think it is like in your head instead of the actual work.
Um... the argument is being postponed
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-05-13, 23:04   Link #2093
Jintor
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Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
But once you make it into something, you are no longer translating it. You are altering the source material and thus you are creating a separate piece of work. A translator's job is not to make it but to bring the same piece of work into another language as it already existed and the Haruhi novel translation does just that. Beside the small number of localizations that have already been pointed out by others, it has the exact same flavor as the original. The original writing is not the best thing since sliced bread. You can say Tanigawa isn't a great writer, but that doesn't mean something is wrong with the translation.

Then again... you seem to be bitching about it having not read the translation nor the original. So you are effectively comparing it to what you think it is like in your head instead of the actual work.
Even if I were bitching about the actual work, I would still be comparing it to what is in my head, so the point is somewhat moot.

That's also a narrow view of a translator's job. I would rather have a bunch of Woolseyisms than a Blind Idiot Translation.

/EDIT If you insist on this train of thought then I guess I should correct myself by saying I would have prefered an english Adaptation rather than a straight translation, much like the english screenplay of Princess Monoke, by - gasp! - Neil Gaiman.

Last edited by Jintor; 2009-05-13 at 23:17.
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Old 2009-05-14, 00:01   Link #2094
KiryuuKazumanosuke
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If you insist on this train of thought then I guess I should correct myself by saying I would have prefered an english Adaptation rather than a straight translation, much like the english screenplay of Princess Monoke, by - gasp! - Neil Gaiman.
I call BS.

If there had been a major rewrite to make it more in line with "American standards" you and legions of fanboys would've been screaming to the heavens about how it was "dumbed down" and you know it.

Anyway, that more or less answers my question. The translation is readable, accurate, and enjoyable unless you're comparing it to some mythical version that might've existed in some alternate dimension.

Good to know; this gives me hope that we'll see more light novel translations in the future.
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Old 2009-05-14, 00:06   Link #2095
Jintor
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Originally Posted by KiryuuKazumanosuke View Post
I call BS.

If there had been a major rewrite to make it more in line with "American standards" you and legions of fanboys would've been screaming to the heavens about how it was "dumbed down" and you know it.
There's a difference between an adaption and a rewrite.

Anyway, I'll stop talking until I actually get my hands on an adaption, because otherwise you guys will never stop throwing it in my face.

I'd also ask you to all stop assuming bullshit about my character, who I am, or what I'd do, because I have been nothing but civil here.

Last edited by Jintor; 2009-05-14 at 01:28.
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Old 2009-05-14, 00:24   Link #2096
besieger
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Nonono... you're supposed to slap the person with a glove to initiate a duel... Like this!

*whacks besieger in the face with a steel gauntlet*

. . . Um... oops?
OW.

By the by, I didn't mention how I threw my glove. I threw it in a slapping-kind-of-way.

OF COURSE, I could do it the traditional Chinese way and write a letter, so to speak.
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Old 2009-05-14, 03:38   Link #2097
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
/EDIT If you insist on this train of thought then I guess I should correct myself by saying I would have prefered an english Adaptation rather than a straight translation, much like the english screenplay of Princess Monoke, by - gasp! - Neil Gaiman.
Adaptation...? Ghaaaa...

**Thinks back to the first four volumes of the Negima manga "adapted" by otherwise accomplished and critically successful comic and sci-fi author Peter David**

I'll stick to a straight translation, thank you...
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Old 2009-05-14, 04:24   Link #2098
Kogetsu Shirogane
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I didn't mention how I threw my glove. I threw it in a slapping-kind-of-way.
It's a joke, that's what I do. Often completely over-the-top, because it's funnier that way
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-05-14, 04:33   Link #2099
Jintor
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Adaptation...? Ghaaaa...

**Thinks back to the first four volumes of the Negima manga "adapted" by otherwise accomplished and critically successful comic and sci-fi author Peter David**

I'll stick to a straight translation, thank you...
I wonder who translated/adapted the Genshiken manga? That was done really well...

Translations/Adaptions can go either way, really.
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Old 2009-05-14, 10:16   Link #2100
Nappy Hared Azn
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Maybe I just have different standards to you guys. I expect everything I read to be somewhere around Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett/Neil Gaiman quality, and damned be everybody else.
You really can't compare a light novel to any of the works by the authors that you mentioned. That would be like comparing K-On! to . . . oh, I don't know . . . real rock. Two completely different standards.
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