AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-05-10, 14:11   Link #3441
Nappy Hared Azn
Check out my Rolek!
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Translation becomes available right when I'm at my busiest point of the year.

Fucking perfect.
__________________
lolwut
Nappy Hared Azn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 19:32   Link #3442
Strife212
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Some random speculation here regarding what I brought up earlier...

Spoiler for spec:
If someone showed me the top picture, and told me nothing else, and asked me who it was, I would probably have to say Tsuruya-san
Strife212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 19:38   Link #3443
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltakatei View Post
Whatever the case, it helped Kyon know exactly what he had to say. No worries about having to use the correct grammar since he's pretty much just saying the SOS Brigade's name with "John Smith" inserted in.
...so this is the explanation for Haruhi's weird club name? Inspired by Kyon, who was inspired by her?

...so who came up with that name structure in the first place?
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 20:04   Link #3444
spawnofthejudge
Explodes when thrown
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
...so this is the explanation for Haruhi's weird club name? Inspired by Kyon, who was inspired by her?

...so who came up with that name structure in the first place?
It's the classic Stable Time Loop problem: information (or even an object!) that has no specific start point.
__________________
Badass.
spawnofthejudge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 20:06   Link #3445
dragon4dudes
Uncountable rationality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Following the clouds North.
Age: 22
Send a message via MSN to dragon4dudes Send a message via Skype™ to dragon4dudes
Also very possible that there was a start just the world changed and causation was lost? Please tell me that made a little sense.
__________________

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. Douglas Adams
Where facts are few, experts are many. Donald R. Gannon

void foo() {foo();} // Can you guess what this line of code does?
dragon4dudes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 21:06   Link #3446
AmyElizzabeth
Moo
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Iowa
Age: 18
Send a message via MSN to AmyElizzabeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
...so who came up with that name structure in the first place?
My guess is Kyon, who told the Haruhi from 3 years ago. Doesn't matter where he got it from
AmyElizzabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 21:30   Link #3447
Strife212
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Causality has basically gone out of the window in this series anyway, the time line is so convoluted its beyond reason.
Strife212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 22:38   Link #3448
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
Are there any other pictures included apart from the Asakura catching the knife one?

Oh Asakura. You're so crazy, but that's why we love you so.
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 22:42   Link #3449
Heminga13
Wannabe Sleuth
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 25
I just got done re-reading novel 9 and finally checking out the preview. I don't feel like getting into spoiler discussion but I just wanted to say it's really sweet finally being able to read at least a little bit of novel 10.

And many thanks to cnet128 for providing the translation!
__________________
If you're interested in what I'm watching, click here.

Heminga13: Speculating and anticipating 'The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya' movie since August 3, 2009.
Heminga13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 23:53   Link #3450
quigonkenny
WRYYYYY!!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Elkia
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon4dudes View Post
Also very possible that there was a start just the world changed and causation was lost? Please tell me that made a little sense.
Can't. Neither she nor Kyon both always never came up with it on their own. Such is the way stable time loops work.

I suggest drinking alcohol until it makes sense. Unless you're underage, in which case drugs are bad, m'kay...
__________________
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 03:04   Link #3451
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon4dudes View Post
Also very possible that there was a start just the world changed and causation was lost? Please tell me that made a little sense.
Things don't NEED a starting point, not when you can time travel. My favourite analogy is the difference between drawing a circle with a pen and creating a circle with a rubber stamp. When you draw a circle, there will HAVE to be a starting point somewhere by necessity. But when you use a stamp, the circle will be created all at once with nowhere in the circle being the "starting point".

Our brains are wired to assume that everything needs a start and an end. But that assumption is only placed there for convenience, because time travel is not a factor. If time travel is possible, the entire assumption becomes incorrect.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 05:56   Link #3452
Leo Keichi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gaijinland
Going a bit off-topic now, but has anyone noticed how, in the previous novels, Kyon always arrived late at the meetings of the group, and all the other members were already there, arriving suspiciously early? Am I the only one who thinks it's strange? Or are the other members such cheapskates that they fight desperately not to have to treat lunches to the others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
...so this is the explanation for Haruhi's weird club name? Inspired by Kyon, who was inspired by her?
And when you think that it was the Mikuru from the future who told Kyon to speak to young Haruhi, things get even more confusing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heminga13 View Post
I just got done re-reading novel 9 and finally checking out the preview. I don't feel like getting into spoiler discussion but I just wanted to say it's really sweet finally being able to read at least a little bit of novel 10.
Actually, that first part must be about 1/3 of novel 10 already. It's good to see the novels finally coming back, after so much time. I think Haruhi is the best light novel out there, Tanigawa's style is unmatched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnet128 View Post
Yes, well, romanisation issues are something you find everywhere ~~
[...]
Personally, in my translations, I almost always stick to using the write-the-kana-as-they-appear method, simply because it's what I'm used to and it looks most natural to me. I can appreciate some of the other versions from an aesthetic perspective, but I wouldn't generally choose to use them. And I think there is something to be said for personal consistency. So "Ryouko" and "Suou Kuyou" it is.
That's the way I use romanization as well. It's strange to use a style for kana, and another for roomaji. That's a reason why some Japanese teachers always stick with kana in the first place.
Leo Keichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 06:11   Link #3453
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
It's the classic Stable Time Loop problem: information (or even an object!) that has no specific start point.
Heinlein did a one time travel story about that... though instead of being an idea (meme) the self perpetuating object was a person...to be more specific a fully functional Hermaphrodite who "exists" because he impregnates his past self who then gives birth to himself, and the newborn then goes on to get impregnated, give birth and then impregnate himself.

When you examine this individuals genealogy, you realize that he actually has no relation to the rest of the human race. It's like he's a foreign alien organism that just happens to look look humans and share the same physiological properties as them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Keichi View Post
And when you think that it was the Mikuru from the future who told Kyon to speak to young Haruhi, things get even more confusing!
That's kinda like the self perpetuating/impregnating/birthing hermaphrodites future self working to ensure this all happens.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 11:21   Link #3454
baltakatei
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Things don't NEED a starting point, not when you can time travel. My favourite analogy is the difference between drawing a circle with a pen and creating a circle with a rubber stamp. When you draw a circle, there will HAVE to be a starting point somewhere by necessity. But when you use a stamp, the circle will be created all at once with nowhere in the circle being the "starting point".

Our brains are wired to assume that everything needs a start and an end. But that assumption is only placed there for convenience, because time travel is not a factor. If time travel is possible, the entire assumption becomes incorrect.
In the design stage, yes, you have to at least put things together so that they are self consistent (using your analogy this would entail carving the circle out bit by bit, or understanding that finite chunks of matter have to be taken off in the stamps construction), but when you put them into action (stamping some paper) it can all happen at once. Maybe all possible time travel isn't so much a human achievement as some gods with a reality stamper saying: "Hey Bill, this looks like a clean impressionable spot on the universe. Let's start our mural here."
__________________
Twitter :: :: Fiction :: :: Blog :: ::
baltakatei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 12:46   Link #3455
keri
ねぇ、知ってる?
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: florida
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Keichi View Post
Going a bit off-topic now, but has anyone noticed how, in the previous novels, Kyon always arrived late at the meetings of the group, and all the other members were already there, arriving suspiciously early? Am I the only one who thinks it's strange? Or are the other members such cheapskates that they fight desperately not to have to treat lunches to the others?
Not always! If I remember correctly, he wasn't the last to arrive twice - he comments about this in one of the novels, and so there may be more occasions after that comment. One of those times, though, it was only him and Haruhi who showed, so it probably doesn't count (it was after the events of Melancholy, when he tries to tell her the truth). And the other time it happens, I think he still gets chucked with the bill anyway, because of some technicality that Haruhi made up. She was kind of peeved that he had the nerve to actually not be the last person to show. (And, recall, it's not that he's always late - it's that everyone else just gets there first. He often shows up on time, and I think once he even deliberately arrived early, only for everyone else to be there before him.)


I don't think the others are cheapskates or anything. It's just that Mikuru (Big) probably remembers that Kyon always had to pay, so Mikuru (Small) is instructed to never be last. Koizumi probably has an idea that Haruhi wants Kyon to be the group's wallet, so he makes sure to never be last, in order to facilitate her happiness. I dunno what Nagato's motivations might be, but I imagine her goal is simply to always arrive before Haruhi does. And then, of course, Kyon is the slacker of the group who is prone to tardiness anyway.
keri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 15:25   Link #3456
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
It's not even that he's tardy. IIRC, he's often early. It's just that everyone else is earlier than he is. The dialogue usually goes something like 'As usual, I'm the last one here. By the way, I'm 10/15/x minutes before the scheduled meeting time.' The only time I remember him arriving early was at the end of the first novel, when it was just him and Haurhi, and even then he talked about he arrived an hour early just so he would beat her. Of course, than Haruhi makes up some excuse about not having her wallet dumping the bill on Kyon anyway.
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 16:46   Link #3457
Joe4evr
(Ex-)Seitenkan VN coder
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Slightly south-west of the exact center of this country's X and Y axes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
The only time I remember him arriving early was at the end of the first novel, when it was just him and Haurhi, and even then he talked about he arrived an hour early just so he would beat her. Of course, than Haruhi makes up some excuse about not having her wallet dumping the bill on Kyon anyway.
Indeed. The only other time he's been on time is somewhere in Dissociation, where he's been way early like in the previous example, but then he happend to meet Sasaki and talked until he realized the rest of the Brigade had arrived. In this case, Haruhi let the punishment slide since she didn't see who came in last.
__________________

↑Click for MAL.↑
Joe4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 00:25   Link #3458
dnab
anime berkeley
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
On causality:

Tanigawa’s writing seems to pay more attention to freewill than causality, in the sense that causality needn’t be air tight as long as the time travels tell interesting stories. His time theory seems to suggest that one of many possible futures is made canon in the present by actions of ignorance (of the future) and free choice. Hence the Asahina(s) the clueless, and hence Yuki’s refusal to sync with her future self. Information from the future may suggest itself in the past, thereby creating a tautology strictly speaking. But as long as it’s a “suggestion”, i.e. the devil’s whispers, the present actioneer has sufficient freedom of choice to determine his future. Hence Haruhi(alt) suggested to Kyon SOS, which he in turn suggested to Haruhi(3ya). Causality is preserved, in a logically cop-out but dramatically interesting way.

[In Intrigue, a memory chip containing faulty time-travel technology was indispensible to the time-travel enabled future(s?). Perhaps it’s another form of suggestion to help motivate, but not outright provide, the actual technology. You think that if the Future can directly affect the Past, they’d send someone James Bondish loaded with weapons and toys and go right at it, instead of an ignorant and vulnerable (and highly to Kyon’s taste) agent executing blind orders and trying influence her ways to the objectives. There should be something paradoxical or Twilight-Zonian that prevents direct and knowledgeable Future intervention. Tanigawa isn’t elaborating on that mechanism, and not critical to the reading enjoyment.]
dnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 00:37   Link #3459
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnab View Post
You think that if the Future can directly affect the Past, they’d send someone James Bondish loaded with weapons and toys and go right at it, instead of an ignorant and vulnerable (and highly to Kyon’s taste) agent executing blind orders and trying influence her ways to the objectives. There should be something paradoxical or Twilight-Zonian that prevents direct and knowledgeable Future intervention. Tanigawa isn’t elaborating on that mechanism, and not critical to the reading enjoyment.]
The reason why they didn't send a James Bond to the past is because of who their own superiors are; namely, their bosses are actually themselves further in the future.

The effect of this arrangement, is that the future self will understandably have a vested interest in making sure everything happened in a way he or she remembered it. Thus protecting themselves from annihilation. It isn't good enough that their intervention went unnoticed to the general public; their interventions had to be unnoticed by their past selves!

In short, they had to ensure whatever happened to them, namely not being told what to do and being lead blindly, be repeated over and over again.

James Bond is not chosen for the mission, because it was predetermined that James Bond didn't go.

An example involving Kyon:
At the end of the book involving Asahina's time travel, Kyon sent her to the recent past to go to the beginning of that book. Asahina was extremely confused, as she had no idea why Kyon was giving here a mission that was approved by her superiors. Kyon flat out lied at that point; he told her that the Kyon in the past will know what to do. The truth is Kyon in the past had no idea what the mission was, and had to find it out the hard way. But the present Kyon had no choice but to tell the lie because that was the lie that was told. It was fixed in time. He could theoretically try to screw it up, but he knows how important the mission was and decided to follow it.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 00:57   Link #3460
dnab
anime berkeley
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
On Kyon’s late arrivals:

It’s logically very simple. Haruhi is the group leader and should always arrive early to set proper example. Kyon is the reluctant slacker who should show up unsurprisingly later. It’s the nature’s way. Sun rises East and sets West. Q.E.D., or it so seems……

In a date, it’s natural for the guy to pay for the expenses. But what is an omnipotent tsundere to do? Haruhi clearly likes Kyon but would not acknowledge it, and showing or even thinking affection is too much on her pride. So they do go out, and the guy does pay, but it’s a group activity and the guy’s always inappropriately late. Well please note that after the Kiss it did become a proper date.

[While the unnatural manifestations of Haruhi’s power draw more attentions, it is those subtle manifestations with natural and plausibly deniable mechanisms that are more telling. We shall see if her prediction
Spoiler for Sneaker Preview:
will come true.]
dnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
shounen, sneaker bunko, seinen, light novels, manga

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.