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Old 2008-06-24, 09:01   Link #1321
Roger Rambo
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I never said about preventing the Assassination of JFK, I'm talking about changing history.

There is no conceivable way that Dallas getting turned into a parking lot could be recorded as the JFK assassination. The only way that historical continuity can be maintained, is if my nuclear chicken men are prevented from going back in time in the first place.
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Old 2008-06-24, 09:54   Link #1322
Kogetsu Shirogane
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*e* Okay, apparently I completely missed the point somewhere along the lines. Carry on.
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Last edited by Kogetsu Shirogane; 2008-06-24 at 09:57. Reason: whoops
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Old 2008-06-24, 10:10   Link #1323
PastPrime
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I think, if time travel did exist, there would only be very trusted, people allowed to travel and there would be very severe penalties for making changes in the past, whether they were intended or accidental. And, if history was changed then we would never know it because our history would be the changed history. And changes would likely be made only when the original events threated our existence. Take the JFK assassination. Perhaps his presidency set the US and Russia on the course for a Nuclear war that destroyed most of humanity and made most of the world uninhabitable. The few remaining people sent someone back to set up his assassination and save the world. We would know nothing of the original events because in our history he was assassinated.
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Old 2008-06-24, 10:24   Link #1324
Deadwings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I never said about preventing the Assassination of JFK, I'm talking about changing history.

There is no conceivable way that Dallas getting turned into a parking lot could be recorded as the JFK assassination. The only way that historical continuity can be maintained, is if my nuclear chicken men are prevented from going back in time in the first place.
Let's NUKE away every single city where important assassination happens!
It will surely create an interesting world...

I want a nuke too! I want a nuke too! Where do I have to sign to join the chicken suit men faction?
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Old 2008-06-24, 10:50   Link #1325
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PastPrime View Post
I think, if time travel did exist, there would only be very trusted, people allowed to travel and there would be very severe penalties for making changes in the past, whether they were intended or accidental.
According to this principle, changing the past is impossible. You can't even try.

Try to be subtle and you will fail subtly. Try to be overt and the universe will cause you to spontaneously combust before warping.
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Originally Posted by PastPrime View Post
Take the JFK assassination. Perhaps his presidency set the US and Russia on the course for a Nuclear war that destroyed most of humanity and made most of the world uninhabitable. The few remaining people sent someone back to set up his assassination and save the world. We would know nothing of the original events because in our history he was assassinated.
This is called the Grand fathers paradox.

The problem is that the reason you are going back in time is to keep A from happening. But now that A hasn't happened, there was nothing for you to go back to correct, thus preventing you from ever going back in time to prevent A from happening.
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Originally Posted by Deadwings View Post
Let's NUKE away every single city where important assassination happens!
It will surely create an interesting world...

I want a nuke too! I want a nuke too! Where do I have to sign to join the chicken suit men faction?
It'll be more interesting to see how reality will be warped to prevent us from doing it.
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Old 2008-06-24, 11:23   Link #1326
Ithekro
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Well, if your time machine follows the Terminator style of travel, you can't take anything with you. Thus a one way trip with no weapons, clothes, nothing.

If you take the Quantum Leap method, you only displace existing matter (person generally) thus still cannot take any objects with you.

After that time is up for grabs.
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Old 2008-06-24, 11:39   Link #1327
Deadwings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
The problem is that the reason you are going back in time is to keep A from happening. But now that A hasn't happened, there was nothing for you to go back to correct, thus preventing you from ever going back in time to prevent A from happening.
Maybe there's a way, if you go back to change something yourself, then your past self will have no reason to go back when he reaches the time when he would have to travel ----> Problem.

But if you go back in order to change something, not directly, but making someone else (someone who belongs to that past time)do it for you, then your past self may have a reason to go back when the time comes, which would be to ask this person to do this thing.

Then the past would be the way it was because you inderectly influenced it, but no changed it with your own hands.

Or maybe i'm just talking nonsense

PD: sorry for grammar

Last edited by Deadwings; 2008-06-24 at 11:41. Reason: grammar
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Old 2008-06-24, 12:55   Link #1328
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Deadwings View Post
I'm not sure now (it's been a while since I read the novels), but isn't something like this mentioned by Asahina-san (big)?

Anyway it makes sense, people travelling from time to time just to make sure things happen the way they are supposed to happen.

lol... I'm trying to imagine the poor chicken suit men laying on the floor and people in black suits and sun glasses with machine guns standing on a side...
That actually makes a lot of sense.
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Old 2008-06-24, 13:56   Link #1329
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well, if your time machine follows the Terminator style of travel, you can't take anything with you. Thus a one way trip with no weapons, clothes, nothing.

If you take the Quantum Leap method, you only displace existing matter (person generally) thus still cannot take any objects with you.

After that time is up for grabs.
The terminator mechanics of time travel are even dumber than normal. What is the difference between the atoms that make up a Terminator, and the Atoms that make up an advanced weapon?

Answer:The director had to come up with an explanation as to why future man didn't just waste Arnold with a plasma gun.
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That actually makes a lot of sense.
Are we going under the assumption that Mikuru is a temporal humanoid ala All you zombies?

...I think allot of people are rushing to delete some folders in response to that line of thought.
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Old 2008-06-24, 14:52   Link #1330
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Are we going under the assumption that Mikuru is a temporal humanoid ala All you zombies?
Maybe her wetware enhancements make her a physical part of the timestream?

Who knows how far their biotechnology has actually enhanced?
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Old 2008-06-24, 14:54   Link #1331
Ithekro
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Who knows "when" she is from? She's not telling.
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Old 2008-06-24, 15:01   Link #1332
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Who knows "when" she is from? She's not telling.
If they've abandoned physical technology, at least a couple thousand years ahead.

Unless they reverse-engineered an LHI or something...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:08   Link #1333
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Judging from the fact that Mikuru is confused by boats, I'd say we're talking distant future.
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... desu desu...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:10   Link #1334
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Judging from the fact that Mikuru is confused by boats, I'd say we're talking distant future.
So yeah, couple thousand or so years ahead.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:42   Link #1335
Hypertaost
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Judging from the fact that Mikuru is confused by boats, I'd say we're talking distant future.
She's confused by boats? When was that?
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Old 2008-06-24, 19:12   Link #1336
Roger Rambo
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Lone Island syndrome I think.
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Old 2008-06-24, 21:51   Link #1337
ganbaru
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About the time/time plane than Mikuru came from:
I read once than the average age for puberty (AAfP) is 6 month early for every 10 year ( I read this in a book publicated brtweem 1970 and 1990, so I don't know is it is still true ) Taking the fact than Mikuru is only a little more mature than Kyon's sister (5th year of grade school) and the AAfP now is at 12 year old, it mean than in nearly 20 years the AAfP wil be at 11 year old . We need to add time to ''growth'' at this status and we should be able to find a minimum for how far Mikuru came from ( (year of growth X 20 years)+20 year )
The real problem with this is than Kyon's sister is herself very immature ( she remind me a 5 year old) so using her as reference might be not a good idea...
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Old 2008-06-25, 01:31   Link #1338
Kogetsu Shirogane
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The problem is, that theory and the fact that physical technology has been obsolete long enough for Mikuru to be confused by anything more complex than a stove don't really work together...
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... desu desu...
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Old 2008-06-25, 07:39   Link #1339
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
About the time/time plane than Mikuru came from:
I read once than the average age for puberty (AAfP) is 6 month early for every 10 year ( I read this in a book publicated brtweem 1970 and 1990, so I don't know is it is still true ) Taking the fact than Mikuru is only a little more mature than Kyon's sister (5th year of grade school) and the AAfP now is at 12 year old, it mean than in nearly 20 years the AAfP wil be at 11 year old . We need to add time to ''growth'' at this status and we should be able to find a minimum for how far Mikuru came from ( (year of growth X 20 years)+20 year )
The real problem with this is than Kyon's sister is herself very immature ( she remind me a 5 year old) so using her as reference might be not a good idea...
That's mostly because of growth hormones they stick in cows. I would figure that people in the future would have less shit like that in their food. And Mikuru isn't that immature. She's an airhead.

Given that fact that we know the future people are capable of mental conditioning (Mikuru can't (and in unable even if she wants to) tell Kyon anything that's classified. If we're talking about that kind of mental manipulation, it's quite possible that Mikuru's personality is a construct, designed specifically to be the kind of person that Haruhi would want to "voluntarily arrest", and also someone that they could use to influence Kyon.
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Old 2008-06-25, 09:48   Link #1340
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Has the 10th novel been released yet. Its been so long since I read the 9th volume.
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