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Old 2008-11-03, 00:13   Link #1521
Sol Falling
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aww, fuck. I had hopes for this too. Are you sure about the Ryoko line? That's pretty much the exact sentiment that Taniguchi expressed; if they changed Kyon that badly then I just couldn't make myself read it.
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Old 2008-11-03, 00:57   Link #1522
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My revile for American licensing remains undiminished.
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Old 2008-11-03, 20:27   Link #1523
typhonsentra
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I hope people keep an open mind and just choose to contact Yen Press if you're dissatisfied with what they're doing. Don't write it off completely, they're far from the final print.
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Old 2008-11-03, 21:06   Link #1524
Kaisos Erranon
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Yes, yes, we need someone to do that.


CALLING ALL PEOPLE WITH A SPINE:

Please contact Yen Press about their idiocy with the Haruhi translation, and tell them to not take any damned liberties, etc.

But in a more respectful and polite way, of course.
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Old 2008-11-03, 23:01   Link #1525
ClockWorkAngel
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But we Otakus are clearly invertebrates, after all who watches/reads standing up?
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Old 2008-11-04, 00:10   Link #1526
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who watches/reads standing up?
... Nagato can read in any position... and damn it, I just know someone's gonna turn that into a sex joke
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... well... at least it's written the same...
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Old 2008-11-04, 15:57   Link #1527
FatPianoBoy
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yes, yes, we need someone to do that.


CALLING ALL PEOPLE WITH A SPINE:

Please contact Yen Press about their idiocy with the Haruhi translation, and tell them to not take any damned liberties, etc.

But in a more respectful and polite way, of course.
I'd have to actually read the preliminary version before I could do this. Where can it be had?
And the Baka-Tsuki English version shouldn't be taken as gospel. Parts of it were translated from the Chinese version and it has been pointed out several times on these forums by people who have read the Japanese original that it's not completely accurate.
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Old 2008-11-04, 17:09   Link #1528
Kaisos Erranon
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Still, we can be certain that Principal Toupee and Hottie weren't in the original.

What we need is someone who can read Japanese, a copy of the original novel, and a copy of the preliminary script. Then we can be taken as credible.


SO YEAH, CALLING OUT FOR A JAPANESE SPEAKER WITH A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL HARUHI NOVEL TOO.
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Old 2008-11-04, 17:13   Link #1529
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Still, we can be certain that Principal Toupee and Hottie weren't in the original.

What we need is someone who can read Japanese, a copy of the original novel, and a copy of the preliminary script. Then we can be taken as credible.


SO YEAH, CALLING OUT FOR A JAPANESE SPEAKER WITH A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL HARUHI NOVEL TOO.
You have to tell me which page I'm going to search though lol
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Old 2008-11-04, 17:17   Link #1530
Kaisos Erranon
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You have to tell me which page I'm going to search though lol
You're our volunteer? Excellent.

Just the first chapter, I'm thinking.

But we need the English script first.
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Old 2008-11-20, 00:26   Link #1531
Kyanme
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People, people, people.

It's called localization. It happens. Personally, I think the Ryoko line is perfectly fine; it's nothing to start a riot over. Aside from that, it's just a preview. I'm sure that isn't the final print. And even if it is, I think it's still in character. Remember, Japanese doesn't translate perfectly well into English. Different words can mean more than one thing. Certain things can be taken differently and read differently.

I doubt anyone will agree with me, but while it's a little...off, I think it's still perfectly fine and in character enough for Kyon to call his principal "Principal Toupee". It's sarcastic. That's the bulk of his character, isn't it? He's a rude, sarcastic and exasperated student. Or at least, that's how he's always come off as to me. (Not to say I like the line. It...reads weird, to me, but I'm not gonna complain about someone who's taken Japanese classes and is being paid to do a good job. They're probably a lot more reliable than a few fansub groups.)

Again, it's localization. I can't come up with decent slang for what one would call a "hottie" other than a hottie. Babe could work but it's... really eighties. And lame, haha. I mean, unless you want Kyon speaking gentleman English, which wouldn't make sense, in my opinion. Again, he's a student. Most kids aren't that...eh, let's say, proper. And that's what Kyon is, remember?

I do hope Principal Toupee is removed... I mean, I don't mind it, it just... feels odd. Unless that's an actual translation? Hopefully someone can clarify for us.
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Old 2008-11-20, 00:55   Link #1532
Kaisos Erranon
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The difference between official translations and fansubs is that fansubs are non-profit, created by devoted fans, whereas official translations are only trying to make money.


Also, neither of those is in the original novels and if neither is in the original novels, they shouldn't be in there.

Localizers should never take liberties like that. EVER. Unless they actually know what they're doing. Which they almost never do.

You are not selling your product to the lowest common denominator. You are not selling your product to anyone but fans of the anime, most of whom have already read the novels anyway.

HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS, LITTLE BROWN?


It's perfectly fine to take liberties with pop culture references in stuff like FLCL, which doesn't rely on them, (and Crystal Pepsi is inherently amusing) but with Haruhi, since Kyon references every culture, not just Japan...

And Kyon doesn't talk like a normal teenager. He'd never use whatever the Japanese equivalent of "hottie" is. He just doesn't do that.

If he's describing the attractiveness of a girl, he uses flowerly, poetic language... not "hottie".

He's damned intelligent.



So how do they not understand this? Did they even READ the books?

Why not just get a damned fan to translate it for them?
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Old 2008-11-20, 02:53   Link #1533
Kyanme
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The difference between official translations and fansubs is that fansubs are non-profit, created by devoted fans, whereas official translations are only trying to make money.
Okay, no. Assuming everyone in the business just wants to put bread on the table is wrong and presumptious. Yes, it's a job, but they also enjoy what they do. Most, if not all of them are fans just like us --- that's how they choose this business. You don't just get forced into a job, you select it. And the fact they chose to work in a niche market like anime/manga shows they are fans just like us. Never mind my own personal experiences and experiences of very good friends of mine who can attest that the people who do this work are fans. You choose to work in a business, usually because you enjoy it. Why would you spend years learning a language unless you enjoyed it? I dropped German like a hot potato when I decided it was too much work for something I wasn't digging, never mind learning a complex language like Japanese. These people are devoted to it and enjoy it, so don't just go saying "THEY JUST WANT OUR MONEY." It's insulting to the people who work hard to bring you something you enjoy for as cheap as 11.99. (And just fyi, that is cheap. Most novels I've purchased can run as high as $25 and over.)

Quote:
Also, neither of those is in the original novels and if neither is in the original novels, they shouldn't be in there.

Localizers should never take liberties like that. EVER. Unless they actually know what they're doing. Which they almost never do.

You are not selling your product to the lowest common denominator. You are not selling your product to anyone but fans of the anime, most of whom have already read the novels anyway.
I agree with most of your points, except with localizing. Localizers generally do know what they're doing and if they don't, they probably don't get the job.

I understand you're upset that the original text is seemingly being butchered (which I personally don't think it is; but to each their own. Opinions are great things, man.) but if you're that offended, don't buy it.

There is a large portion of fans who have not read the novels, I assure you. And I don't think they'll be disappointed. What I read was intriguing enough and got the feeling well-enough, while making it marketable enough for people who aren't "into" anime or manga to enjoy. And that's their main goal -- because while anime is a popular thing nowadays, not everyone can just jump into a story about a girl with God-like powers and a need to enjoy life, with aliens, espers and time travellers at her side. Yes, a lot of anime fans can because we've seen giant robots and noodles piloting them and whatnot, but there's a large chunk of the American public who don't buy into that like anime fans do.

And they're doing a smart thing by adding those little tid-bits in my opinion. I hate to admit it, but a lot of American youth won't immediatly jump into Kyon's ramblings unless they can relate at least. So if he's checking girls out and commenting that they're a "hottie" or making fun of his school principal, they'll relate and enjoy it.

I mean, look at Twilight.

That isn't say I don't think it's terribly right to take a liberty such as adding something to something you're translating, but I guess sometimes it's better to do the wrong thing in lou of what seems to be the smarter thing. Marketing's such a cruel world.

Quote:
It's perfectly fine to take liberties with pop culture references in stuff like FLCL, which doesn't rely on them, (and Crystal Pepsi is inherently amusing) but with Haruhi, since Kyon references every culture, not just Japan...
I highly doubt those will be edited. If they can add a glossary for what moe and esper means, they can add a glossary for all his culture references. I'm sure they will, in fact, since they're a core part of Kyon's comical ranting.

Quote:
And Kyon doesn't talk like a normal teenager. He'd never use whatever the Japanese equivalent of "hottie" is. He just doesn't do that.

If he's describing the attractiveness of a girl, he uses flowerly, poetic language... not "hottie".

He's damned intelligent.
Fair enough, fair enough. I won't argue you on that; I'll just say he needs to be more relatable for general American youth. They have to be able to understand what he's saying, or at least get that he's a guy. It's fine for the quirky value in Japan, but in America, it won't hit big unless they sell out at least a little.

I don't think this would have been issue, however, had they not been trying to market Haruhi as mainstream now. I mean, it's a great series for a first timer (I'm sure many, many people can attest to this, my own little brother and Father included.), so I can't blame them for wanting to bank off that. But somehow, I highly doubt we'd be seeing these added bits if they weren't trying to make Haruhi more popular than it already is... But I'm probably stating the obvious.

Quote:
So how do they not understand this? Did they even READ the books?

Why not just get a damned fan to translate it for them?
Because a "damned fan" isn't as reliable as someone who's studied, learned and taken Japanese classes for as long as even half the people doing these translations. Not to say that fans haven't/can't take classes, but they (usually) don't have degrees or proof that they've studied the language enough to translate it professionally.

But it's rarely the translator's fault, I don't think. They just translate the text as best they can and get a paycheck. Don't blame the poor guy for someone else's 'butchering'. (my own wording, not your's )

Damn, I rambled. Hope I didn't come off too rude, though.
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Old 2008-11-20, 16:32   Link #1534
Kaisos Erranon
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What I read was intriguing enough and got the feeling well-enough, while making it marketable enough for people who aren't "into" anime or manga to enjoy.
And therein lies the fallacy. People who are not into anime and manga already are not going to buy this book in the first place, especially when looking at the cover.

All they are trying to do is appeal to a larger market, in order to make more money, and it's not going to work. They should be keeping everything the exact same, especially if they're adding things that are, frankly, out of character and don't make sense and are an affront to everything the novels and characters stand for.

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Because a "damned fan" isn't as reliable as someone who's studied, learned and taken Japanese classes for as long as even half the people doing these translations. Not to say that fans haven't/can't take classes, but they (usually) don't have degrees or proof that they've studied the language enough to translate it professionally.
And then the executives come in and tell them to add things that shouldn't be in there, yes. Executives, of course, are always responsible for bad changes, yes yes.

Many fansubbers are people who are fluent in Japanese, you know. And looking at other novel translations, it looks like the translators weren't really fluent in English, either, heh.

Goddamn Viz.

And no, you're not being rude. I'm being far more rude than you are.
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Old 2008-11-27, 00:31   Link #1535
BobaLunatic
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And therein lies the fallacy. People who are not into anime and manga already are not going to buy this book in the first place, especially when looking at the cover.
I believe that the "mainstream" version of the book will have no anime/manga imagery on it?
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Old 2008-11-27, 23:39   Link #1536
Roger Rambo
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I believe that the "mainstream" version of the book will have no anime/manga imagery on it?
Why exactly would a company like this buy the rights for a series of light novels?
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Old 2008-11-28, 00:13   Link #1537
Kaisos Erranon
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Greed and Stupidity. The usual suspects.
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Old 2008-11-28, 05:19   Link #1538
ganbaru
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At least we still get the light novel in North America.

Of course, the compagnie have to make some moneys, or they wouldn't licensed this.
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Old 2008-11-28, 17:45   Link #1539
Kaisos Erranon
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We're not getting Haruhi. We're getting bowlderized, corporate-sanctioned fake-Haruhi.
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Old 2008-11-28, 21:23   Link #1540
ganbaru
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We're not getting Haruhi. We're getting bowlderized, corporate-sanctioned fake-Haruhi.
Is it too soon to say so, when the product, is not yet in bookstore?
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