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Old 2006-05-19, 11:01   Link #101
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaoi_Pocky
Thanks Miaka for the clarification!
Just wanted to add a little something...



In Hong Kong dramas and movies about imperial China, there always seem to be a scene where emperors do leave the palace casually and secretively. This is referred to as 微服出巡 (translation from Chinese: an Emperor going out on the town in casual clothes, often incognito). Since there are enough such scenes in HK dramas, I would assume that this is common practice in actual imperial China...I'm now looking up Google to find citations of such practices, but I can't look it up for too long; I'm actually getting ready for going to work.
In actual reality the emperor don't leave their palace that much. if they do leave incognito they usually bring more guards then what is shown. And most often it is usually to the nearest high class brothel

PS. the chinese emperor usually have a Harem of 3000 . Thats the number that is always been refer to in the dramas and stuff. And the imperial palace is also lot bigger then is shown in the anime. They usually the size of a small city in itself.

it is good to be king but a emperor is even better.
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Old 2006-05-19, 15:20   Link #102
ImClueless
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more on chinese emperor's harems

Well I believe in certain dynasties the emperors harem became so large that in order to decide which concubine to visit every night he would randomly pick one's name by selecting a facedown bamboo stick with names written on. Of course the emperor will also have favourites and might not visit a different one each night

I believe that someone else stated previously that no one wanted to send their daughters into the palace to join the emperor's harem because they think he is gay makes a lot of sense. Once a girl joins the harem she can never leave the harem. Sometimes if her name never gets picked she might die of old age living in the palace having never met the emperor eventhough she is officially "his". Since the noble families figure that the emperor will simply ignore their daughters and wont get a chance to bear the next emperor why bother sending them in to suffer. Thats the reason alot of the noble families sent their daughters to be concubines anyway. So that if their daughter has a son, they could be the grandparents of the next emperor.

Also, 19 is pretty old for a emperor not to have at least a first wife (who usually becomes the empress) and a few concubines with kids already. Also, the emperor rarely left the palace if ever without at least an army and the whole court tagging along. All those cheesy Hong Kong shows (yes I have seen many) with the emperor gallavanting across the country side impregnating fair maidens are mostly fiction.

Edit: Spelling

Last edited by ImClueless; 2006-05-19 at 15:48.
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Old 2006-05-19, 15:39   Link #103
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImClueless
I believe that someone else stated previously that no one wanted to send their daughters into the palace to join the emperor's harem because they think he is gay makes a lot of sense. Once a girl joins the harem she can never leave the harem. Sometimes if her name never gets picked she might die of old age living in the palace having never met the emperor eventhough she is officially "his". Since the noble families figure that the emperor will simply ignore their daughters and wont get a chance to bear the next emperor why bother sending them in to suffer. Thats the reason alot of the noble families sent their daughters to be concubines anyway. So that if their daughter has a son, they could be the grandparents of the next emperor.

Also, 19 is pretty old for a emperor not to have at least a first wife (who usually becomes the empress) and a few concubines with kids already. Also, the emperor rarely left the palace if ever without at least an army and the whole court tagging along. All those cheesy Hong Kong shows (yes I have seen many) with the emerpor gallavanting acorss the country side impregnating fair maidens are mostly fiction.
If the daughter is form a noble familiy, her familiy would have bribe some of th enuchs to make sure the emperor choose their daughter. And usually there are some type of pre-screening already to make sure the emperor was intrested before sending her intot he palace.

Most Emperors are usually married at a very early age. So there is no way a chinese would be bachlor at 19 even if he is gay. He is still expect to get a heir even if he ignores her aftwerward. But since this is based on ancient china but not actually in China i will cut it some slack. And i will repeat it again Emperors do not leave the palace without a small army.
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Old 2006-05-19, 15:59   Link #104
poisonakki
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dude you totally missed the boat O_O
well the novel seems to probably do a bit of a better job at addressing the questions you mentioned. But the anime hasn't skipped over these issues.

Shuurei does mention that she came to help the emperor. That she's not there simply to bear him children but to help him become a better ruler.
Shuurei than quickly states that the matter of succession can be deferred for later. She's a bit uncomfortable about that aspect of what would be expected believes the rumors that the emperor is gay will keep him out of her bed.
Turns out she is in for a big surprise ^_^

anyways, give it a chance the story is only just beginning. I'm sure your questions will be answered. Plus there's a reason why the emperor has been holding off getting married and no it isn't because of the gay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jedinat
My poor post was deleted from the Suggestions section, so I'm moving it here...

How/why is she suddenly the queen? They didn't have a wedding. She never even saw the emporer until she was already living in the palace as the "queen"... And it seems she's under a 1 year contract or something. And the usually huge issue with a story like this is the sex. You know, wedding night and everything... but that isn't even addressed. Only once vaguely mentioned in a joking way. What about making heirs and crap? How does that work with a 1 yr contract? The whole anime just seems to have a lot of plot holes... Oh, and it seems the emperor is gay. Which is annoying and shows that the show is obviously aimed at girls. It's too bad cuz I usually love palace intrigue type stories.. with the romance and plotting and complicated relations of nobles, etc... This anime just seems kinda.. dumb
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Old 2006-05-19, 16:47   Link #105
Yaoi_Pocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedinat
He was wearing his usual garb, not even disguised. Not exactly incognito imo. But I guess if he's never been out of the palace before, no one knows what he looks like... w/e
Well, he doesn't have his trademark crown on either...

Edited because I fail to write key words on my posts. -_-;;;

Last edited by Yaoi_Pocky; 2006-05-19 at 17:11.
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Old 2006-05-19, 17:09   Link #106
Kaoru Chujo
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1. She isn't a full wife, just a concubine (Hong Gui-fei = "Honored Concubine Hong", a title analogous to the title of the famous Tang beauty Yang Gui-fei "Honored Concubine Yang" ). But since the king apparently has no other wives or concubines, that makes her pretty important. I'm not sure if she is supposed to be there temporarily or not. Emperors certainly could send concubines away any time, so maybe that was what the old councillors planned to have him do after she had educated him.

2. The emperors hardly ever left the palace, except for ceremonies and pleasure trips surrounded by troops. But one of the Song emperors (around 1000 AD) used to go out incognito with just a few of his courtiers to enjoy tea-houses. So it's not entirely unheard of.

3. The reason I think Saiunkoku is supposed to resembleTang (600-900 AD) is because of the patterns painted in cosmetics on Shuurei's forehead. They were a feature of Tang style. But I think really the show just mixes eras without trying to be very accurate.
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Old 2006-05-21, 09:45   Link #107
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saiunkoku 7 is out (raw) *_* so nice!
Ryuuki is incredibly adorable when he's pissed off/crying
and the romance went up a notch or two lol
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Old 2006-05-21, 14:33   Link #108
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Finally got around to watching the rest in chinese fansubs. Looks like Ep7 finish of vol1.The preview has another character show up. Seriously this show needs some a couple of more cute girls and at least 1 eveil loli.

Anyone care to spoil me on what happens next?

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-05-23, 13:48   Link #109
poisonakki
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not a lot of posts on this forum
sad considering this anime series is being lost amongst the shuffle of anime 2006 !
We need to spread the saiunkoku love *points at her signature* ^_^
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Old 2006-05-23, 13:55   Link #110
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poisonakki
not a lot of posts on this forum
sad considering this anime series is being lost amongst the shuffle of anime 2006 !
We need to spread the saiunkoku love *points at her signature* ^_^
Part of the problem is that the english subs are so behind. It is not a problem to people who can read chinese but for anyone else this is a problem.

Anyone know where i can get the novel really cheap. Like online used book store? My chinese isn't that good but I should be able to make out enough and besides it is good practice for me.
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Old 2006-05-23, 14:28   Link #111
Blablabla
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I saw the 2 first ep and I like the show. Reminds me Juuni Kokki but with romantic comedy and the heroine is as cute than she is smart.

Quote:
Part of the problem is that the english subs are so behind. It is not a problem to people who can read chinese but for anyone else this is a problem.
This is not a school comedy. No mecha, no monsters, no super powers, no shoujo ai, no OMGWTF too kakkoi girls or boys that kick asses and take names. This is not a brainless shounen fighting anime nor an adaptation of a milion seller manga... why do you want many fansubers to do it ? Don't expect too much, it's already a miracle that one team is working on it, and I really thank them.
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Old 2006-05-23, 15:13   Link #112
poisonakki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blablabla
I saw the 2 first ep and I like the show. Reminds me Juuni Kokki but with romantic comedy and the heroine is as cute than she is smart.


This is not a school comedy. No mecha, no monsters, no super powers, no shoujo ai, no OMGWTF too kakkoi girls or boys that kick asses and take names. This is not a brainless shounen fighting anime nor an adaptation of a milion seller manga... why do you want many fansubers to do it ? Don't expect too much, it's already a miracle that one team is working on it, and I really thank them.
well i following the raw since the subs are far behind. My japanese comprehension is semi-decent and I got friends to help fill in the blanks ^^
It'd be nice if there were more people fansubbing (cough Jyu Oh Sei has a gazillion subbers rushing to see who can fansub fast enough lol)
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Old 2006-05-23, 15:46   Link #113
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poisonakki
well i following the raw since the subs are far behind. My japanese comprehension is semi-decent and I got friends to help fill in the blanks ^^
It'd be nice if there were more people fansubbing (cough Jyu Oh Sei has a gazillion subbers rushing to see who can fansub fast enough lol)
one of the problems with subbing shows like this and 12kingdom is that there is a lot dialogue and a very heavy chinese reference that makes it more diffcult to translate. No offense to the groups currently subbing this but i like to see the group that sub 12kingdom a few years ago get back together to sub this series. Especially since they have more experience in dealing with this type of show.
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Old 2006-05-23, 19:08   Link #114
tsukun
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First time posting. I hope I'm doing this right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
Finally got around to watching the rest in chinese fansubs. Looks like Ep7 finish of vol1.The preview has another character show up. Seriously this show needs some a couple of more cute girls and at least 1 eveil loli.

Anyone care to spoil me on what happens next?
Spoiler for what happens for the next 5-7 episodes (after Ep 7):


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
Anyone know where i can get the novel really cheap. Like online used book store? My chinese isn't that good but I should be able to make out enough and besides it is good practice for me.
Do you want to read them online? in Chinese. post.baidu.com has the first 5 online and kinda-detailed summaries of the two gaidens. you can get the raws from www.saiunkoku.cn. Don't know where to actually buy them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by poisonakki
well i following the raw since the subs are far behind. My japanese comprehension is semi-decent and I got friends to help fill in the blanks ^^
It'd be nice if there were more people fansubbing (cough Jyu Oh Sei has a gazillion subbers rushing to see who can fansub fast enough lol)
Following Chinese sub here~
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Old 2006-05-24, 00:44   Link #115
Sakuya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codex
I believe they were sages, not warriors. And immortal sages are more or less a mainstay of Chinese traditional legends/stories. The Eight Immortals are regularly depicted in art and sculpture, which can often be found in Chinese homes.
Wow, I never would've connected this series to them. Imagine: 8 bishounen from the anime was originally like THAT.
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Old 2006-05-24, 01:05   Link #116
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plus , one of the 8 immortals is a girl so someone has to crossdress
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Old 2006-05-24, 01:21   Link #117
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Originally Posted by randomlurker123
plus , one of the 8 immortals is a girl so someone has to crossdress
Actually there 6 guys, 1 woman and 1 girl. Of the 6 guys only 2 of the would fall under the bishie catagory. Also are you guys sure the eight "sages" in the niame are the same eight immortals we are talking about?
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Old 2006-05-24, 01:25   Link #118
NoSanninWa
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Umm? According to the stories as I recall them, only 1 is a woman. And one of the others is a male cross-dresser.

But that is real China. Not necessarily the same as in Saiun.
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Old 2006-05-24, 02:22   Link #119
Yaoi_Pocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
Actually there 6 guys, 1 woman and 1 girl. Of the 6 guys only 2 of the would fall under the bishie catagory. Also are you guys sure the eight "sages" in the niame are the same eight immortals we are talking about?
There are many analogies in Saiunkoku to actual elements of Chinese folklore and government. Here are just two of them:
1) There's of course the Eight Immortals that everyone is now talking about. The Saiunkoku equivalent is the Eight Immortals of Colour (彩八仙). I am not sure how the eight bishounen (maybe there's more than eight?) - or the Saiunkoku!EIC for that matter - maps to the actual Eight Immortals of Chinese folklore; we should probably see more of the series before we draw any conclusions ^^;;
2) The imperial government structure in Saiunkoku is also similar to the one actually seen in imperial China since the Sui dynasty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiwan Provincial Endowment of Culture, Culture Information Network
The page in question
He (Emperor Wen of the Sui dynasty) strengthened the power of the central government by dividing it into six departments under three ministries.
The complete 3-ministry, 6-department system (三省六部) was as follows:
  1. 尚書省=Ministry of Governmental Affairs
    1. 吏部=Department of Civil Administration
    2. 戸部=Department of Treasury and Taxation
    3. 礼部=Department of Ceremonies
    4. 兵部=Department of Military Affairs
    5. 刑部=Department of Justice and Prosecution
    6. 工部=Department of Imperial Labour
  2. 門下省=Ministry of Senate
  3. 中書省=Ministry of Imperial Legislation

Tale of Saiunkoku uses a modified version of the above system, concatenating the Ministry of the Immortal Caves (仙洞省) to the hierarchy. Thus the system as used in Saiunkoku becomes the 4-ministry, 6-department system (四省六部).

Spoiler for Episode 2:
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Old 2006-05-24, 09:15   Link #120
ommseti
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Some random trivia, though not nearly as juicy as everyone else's wonderful commentary. :o)

When they're snacking and walking, the Emperor makes the comment that he's never eaten while walking before. In Chinese palaces, there were no designated dining rooms; the servants would set up meals wherever the Emperor happened to be when it was time to eat. Likewise, only certain people could eat certain foods... a higher-ranking person would get a more elaborate and complete meal than a slightly lower-ranking person. The Emperor usually ate by himself, but if he favored someone enough to let them dine with him, they wouldn't have a bite until he was done. And everyone had very particular dishes they could eat out of; one rank of consort would only be able to eat out of specific yellow dishes with green dragons, another rank might only be able to eat out of blue dishes with yellow dragons, etc. So dining was very structured and rank-conscious, at least in China. Whether or not the level of formality in Saiunkoku Monogatari is correspondingly elaborate is a different matter, but that's the historical background they're drawing from.

On a side note, someone had mentioned the guifei rank, which was a sixth-rank title for a consort, but I can never keep it straight whether first rank is lowest or highest.
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