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Old 2007-07-22, 21:44   Link #361
kgptzac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
I have my reasons. Taken from a review I'm writing of the game on another forum:

Spoiler:
Spoiler for Tsugumi's path:
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Old 2007-07-23, 17:49   Link #362
daedalus6
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When do I get to choose my path?! I have played the game for what feels like hours and no choice yet!
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Old 2007-07-23, 18:34   Link #363
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgptzac View Post
Spoiler for Tsugumi's path - paragraph six:
Spoiler:


I wouldn't say I dislike Tsugumi-type characters it's just Tsugumi pushed my buttons too frequently. When I originally played as Takeshi, I tried to role play as him since his profile fits mine (~twenty years old, college junior) and in retrospect, all of the choices meant to please Tsugumi could only have been taken by someone deliberately trying to please her with the prospect of getting laid. Sora's, by contrast, could be attained by someone just trying to be sociable/pleasant to everyone - I got the Bad End playing "myself" as it were, but I also overlapped into Sora's Path and I think that combination of outcomes was the "most believable" of all Takeshi paths. Sure, I loved Sora's ending and was pleased with how Takeshi handled Tsugumi's Good End, but the Bad End was "brick shatting" to say the least. I mean, of all the endings, that was the most likely one to have occured in reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus6 View Post
When do I get to choose my path?! I have played the game for what feels like hours and no choice yet!
Depends on who you play as. You won't know if you're on Tsugumi or Sora's Paths until right before their respective endings, You/Sara come earlier (a bit more than half-way).
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Old 2007-07-23, 19:50   Link #364
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for Sora's route:

Quote:
I wouldn't say I dislike Tsugumi-type characters it's just Tsugumi pushed my buttons too frequently. When I originally played as Takeshi, I tried to role play as him since his profile fits mine (~twenty years old, college junior) and in retrospect, all of the choices meant to please Tsugumi could only have been taken by someone deliberately trying to please her with the prospect of getting laid.
No, i would say somehow how to understand her character. Pleasing her isn't especially obvious considering some answers which are in fact flag- without knowing it.

Quote:
Sora's, by contrast, could be attained by someone just trying to be sociable/pleasant to everyone
Personally, i thought Sora extremely bland and going goody 2 shoes until she got her fine development after Takeshi "scold" Kid about the kichen sandwich.
Her character was especially generic, and her "twist" as a AI was really done too late. heck, her antics with takeshi and his "teacher + student" were too much out from the blue.

Still a likeable character, but i felt really a poor scripting for her path (not as much as Sara however).


it is a matter of taste, and i'm not really the kind to "dislike a rival of "my" girl". I tend to focalise on each depending of their context.
as for tsugumi, like most people, I really felt her extremely obnoxious (thank goodness i didn't start kid first), but her route was nicely done so her development doesn't have any hiccup or something out from the blue.

her torn personality is quickly presented (thanks to chami). i'm not trying to convince anyone to like her anyway, but generally speaking, i though almost any of her action justified, considering the various hints and developments she got.

OTOH, Sora development was too bland and unbalanced. (at least, to me)
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Old 2007-07-24, 05:30   Link #365
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


I hated playing that scene again by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, i would say somehow how to understand her character. Pleasing her isn't especially obvious considering some answers which are in fact flag- without knowing it.
It's rather easy to figure out Tsugumi's kind of character, she's the archetypal "bird in a cage with a broken wing" person. The problem is, well, I'm not like that and thus had a hard time getting Tsugumi's Path since *I* was playing out of character. As I said earlier, one has to take an active interest in Tsugumi to get her route, whereas one could just be friendly with Sora and get her path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Personally, i thought Sora extremely bland and going goody 2 shoes until she got her fine development after Takeshi "scold" Kid about the kichen sandwich.
Her character was especially generic, and her "twist" as a AI was really done too late. heck, her antics with takeshi and his "teacher + student" were too much out from the blue.
The A.I. bit should have been obvious from the invisible Sora computer lab incident on the first day - I'd suspected she was an android for the longest time, but the surprise was that she was a hologram.

I can see where you are coming from, though - one woudn't have thought Sora's A.I. would have already developed a concept of romance with so little time with Takeshi, but it came as a surprise to me. See, the whole time during Sora's Path I wasn't really thinking of romance, just being a friend - and it was tragic Sora and Takeshi couldn't interact beyond that. Suddenly, "I love him!" and the whole direction for her path had been defined. Sora didn't pour her heart out to Takeshi like Tsugumi did after he had "broken the wall" so to say, she'd kept most of her feelings inside. Reserved. Pretty faithful to her character.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Still a likeable character, but i felt really a poor scripting for her path (not as much as Sara however).
I think Sara's Path was undercooked. Ending was great, really romantic (*cough*, not that way, *cough*) and Sara herself interesting, but there was the annoying bit of her knowing more than she let on and not confining her discoveries to the Kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
as for tsugumi, like most people, I really felt her extremely obnoxious (thank goodness i didn't start kid first), but her route was nicely done so her development doesn't have any hiccup or something out from the blue.
Spoiler:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
her torn personality is quickly presented (thanks to chami). i'm not trying to convince anyone to like her anyway, but generally speaking, i though almost any of her action justified, considering the various hints and developments she got.
I only think Tsugumi redeemed herself during Coco's Path, prior to that she was really emo and selfish which, in retrospect, sort of explains why she loved Takeshi so much - if he was REALLY willing to put up with her, he was a fine catch of a man and she was wrong to have pushed him away for so long. The guilt must have been a heavy weight on her neck - afterall, if not for her final act of defiance in LeMU, Tsugumi's Good End would have concluded much differently.

tl;dr - Tsugumi is my least favourite character in the game, but at the very least I can sympathize with her somewhat by the True End.
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Old 2007-07-24, 06:40   Link #366
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Spoiler:


I hated playing that scene again by the way.
Spoiler:

Quote:
The A.I. bit should have been obvious from the invisible Sora computer lab incident on the first day - I'd suspected she was an android for the longest time, but the surprise was that she was a hologram.
no i'm not talking about "whaa, she is a IA" in fact. i was talking about that weird conflict she had, way much later in the game. (confession)
It was too obvious, considering her manner of speech and lack of reaction at many various moments, especially the computer room, like you said.
Quote:
I can see where you are coming from, though - one woudn't have thought Sora's A.I. would have already developed a concept of romance with so little time with Takeshi, but it came as a surprise to me. See, the whole time during Sora's Path I wasn't really thinking of romance, just being a friend - and it was tragic Sora and Takeshi couldn't interact beyond that. Suddenly, "I love him!" and the whole direction for her path had been defined. Sora didn't pour her heart out to Takeshi like Tsugumi did after he had "broken the wall" so to say, she'd kept most of her feelings inside. Reserved. Pretty faithful to her character.
this is why i felt her character was underdevelopped, since her sudden "true feelings" were coming from... nowhere.
There were indeed hints, but there were really not significant enough, and their meaning was extremely shady.
At least, the awkwardness remains, fitting her "inexperience" as a AI.
Quote:
Spoiler:
Yes it was obvious, but no i don't think it should separate the "fans" so to speak. Opposed characters can have common points and various traits which please the readers/watchers.
Of course, this statement is applied many times on various VN or shows, but i think it is just a problem of context, and how the readers/watchers compare the cast.
Quote:
I think Sara's Path was undercooked. Ending was great, really romantic (*cough*, not that way, *cough*) and Sara herself interesting, but there was the annoying bit of her knowing more than she let on and not confining her discoveries to the Kid.
Well, the problem with her path is most likely the lakc of discoveries, it is true.
OTOH, her character development was extremely poor. heck, the only "emotional" moment outside of coco's path for her was in You's memories, the "school days". They could try to go further in her struggle, but even her conflict with tsugumi was completely ignored, until coco's path
Quote:
I only think Tsugumi redeemed herself during Coco's Path, prior to that she was really emo and selfish which, in retrospect, sort of explains why she loved Takeshi so much - if he was REALLY willing to put up with her, he was a fine catch of a man and she was wrong to have pushed him away for so long. The guilt must have been a heavy weight on her neck - afterall, if not for her final act of defiance in LeMU, Tsugumi's Good End would have concluded much differently.
I'm not really agreeing with this, since her"selfishness" is rather more complicated that simply centring everything around herself. I guess i was "siding with her" due her complete abnormal situation and past. Suffice to say, i believe it was hard for her to even consider herself as part of the "gang" because of her own esteem of her existence.

It is true her obnoxious "shell" around her was somewhat a message "please help me", on the other way around, she doesn't want to be pitied, nor "sharing" her problems for obvious reasons.
Takeshi was able to "get" her simply because he didn't focalised everything on meaningless past, in contrast with Tsugumi, completely devoured about her own image and the past she lived. Takeshi personality matched simply what Tsugumi required : carefreeness, responability and frankness, that is.
oh well, that is my own interpretation.

OTOH, i wasn't really moved by sora, because of "goodie two shoe" wasn't exactly in opposition with Tsugumi, but rather too superficial, until she got her twist and love later on. Prior this part, she was extremely too artificial (not specially because she was a AI, but because she was like this with everyone) , even though she is "naturally" nice. Like i said, i still believe her scripting was poor, not really because she was "too" nice. Her "too late "second dimensional personality" could save her completely if it was introduced more smoothly and sooner.
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Old 2007-07-24, 07:23   Link #367
daedalus6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Depends on who you play as. You won't know if you're on Tsugumi or Sora's Paths until right before their respective endings, You/Sara come earlier (a bit more than half-way).
I am kid....but it does not seem like I really had a choice in the matter...when did that choice happen.
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Old 2007-07-24, 08:18   Link #368
Chewy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus6 View Post
I am kid....but it does not seem like I really had a choice in the matter...when did that choice happen.
>I've got to find my friends <-Takeshi
>Who am I <- Kid

The choice happens shortly after things go wrong in LeMU

In the original japanese version the choice was a bit clearer. Since Takeshi and Kid refer to themselves differently (ore and boku), the choices were "ore wa....." and "boku wa...." to enter their respective paths.
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Old 2007-07-24, 16:47   Link #369
daedalus6
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is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?
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Old 2007-07-24, 23:49   Link #370
ApathyEcstasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus6 View Post
is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?
you cannot experience the complete story without completing all endings and unlocking the final path
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Old 2007-07-25, 00:08   Link #371
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus6 View Post
is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?
Yes, it warrants many, many replays in fact. Don't stop until you've completed Coco's Path.

The possible girls for the Kid are You and Sara. For Takeshi, it's Sora and Tsugumi. You'll know when you're on one of their paths when your saves start saying Kid/You, Kid/Sara, Takeshi/Sora or Takeshi/Tsugumi, instead of just Kid or Takeshi. As I said earlier, for Takeshi's routes, you are only alerted as to whose path you are on by the sixth day or so. For Kid's, it could be as early as the third and as late as the fifth.
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Old 2007-07-25, 00:18   Link #372
kgptzac
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I think on the third day if you save, you should be able to see whose path you are taking on the save title.
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Old 2007-07-25, 02:11   Link #373
p997tt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus6 View Post
is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?
Just like what many people/reviews said, there is no meaning in playing the game if you don't play until the end of Coco's route.

iirc for Kid's path the first decision you need to make for whether you go for You or Sara's route is when they are going to fix the power generator. I think it's in day 2 or day 3, can't really remember.
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Old 2007-07-27, 00:52   Link #374
dsp2003
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Cool Guessing the things... Russian sight.

kgptzac, don't mind if i'll copy-paste everything that we discussed at your guestbook?

Spoiler for * SPOILERS * SPOILERS * SPOILERS * VERY BIG ONE * A HUGE ONE * TERRIBLE ONE:


P.S. Thank you for helping the noob, Klashikari.

Last edited by dsp2003; 2007-07-27 at 08:57. Reason: Several additions...
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Old 2007-07-27, 05:46   Link #375
Klashikari
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use the SPOILER TAGS !
[.spoiler=title of your spoiler] the spoiler text [./spoiler] without the dots in the tags.

Quote:
Spoiler for end game:
Spoiler for end game:
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Old 2007-07-27, 09:09   Link #376
dsp2003
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Spoiler for the May 2nd:


Ok, no more talking about "health"... i understand.
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Old 2007-07-27, 17:47   Link #377
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp2003 View Post
Spoiler:
I think I've got the answer for this one.

Spoiler:

Last edited by Malintex_Terek; 2007-07-28 at 21:33. Reason: clarified.
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Old 2007-07-28, 06:23   Link #378
dsp2003
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Spoiler for "multiverse beings"?:
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Old 2007-07-28, 19:01   Link #379
Bloodseeker
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I don't see why anyone has trouble getting Tsugami's good ending... its basically just the usual deal of be nice, stand by the idea that life is important, be reasonable, and talk to her whenever you have the option. I don't remember any choices that weren't obvious...

As of completing You's and Tsugumi's routes:

You = Sara >= Takeshi >>> Coco > Tsugumi at the end of her route >>> Tsugumi > Sora > Kid
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Old 2007-07-28, 21:39   Link #380
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp2003 View Post
Spoiler for "multiverse beings I"?:
That's for you to decide. Thomas Hobbes believed all reality was subjective sense and Descartes believed people could be decieved into never believing an objective reality. It's beyond the power of human beings to comprehend objective reality outside of faith in that objective reality - id est, I know something exists because I can touch it and others can touch it and use it. It is this faith that gives us a grounding to the objective world, even if it's beyond our comprehension, we can indulge in the illusion and make it real.

Take a 3D object drawn on paper. It's not really 3D, it's 2D, but we an mentally understand it to be 3D by decieving ourselves. We can "percieve" the imaginary 3D and make it real in our minds. Same applies to objective reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp2003 View Post
Spoiler for "multiverse beings II"?:
No, I believe you. I've gone through something simmilar. But I'll say it's probably your mind putting together information you didn't think too much about while awake while you sleep.
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