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Old 2006-04-21, 15:10   Link #101
Forbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ
As "stupid" as mines are they are quite foolproof
and even when they're old can still pose a threat
They may not discriminate, but anyone not knowing where they are are not your ally
Mines are too foolproof. Ask anyone who lives in a war torn country. Mines planted, and no one can remember where they are. Many years after the war they still lose casulaties to mines that no one remembered were there or even can remove.

Once a mine is in place, it usually doesn't care about friend or foe. Why? Because smart mines cost more than dumb ones.

BTW Did you ever notice that in animes where the space ships have rockets (Like in Macross), the rockets disconnect from the ship and travel downwards before launchling like they are in a gravity? Hehe
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Old 2006-04-21, 15:25   Link #102
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
BTW Did you ever notice that in animes where the space ships have rockets (Like in Macross), the rockets disconnect from the ship and travel downwards before launchling like they are in a gravity? Hehe
yes I did notice, but one could argue that they are jettisonned to prevent the
plane from getting in the missile's wash
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Old 2006-04-21, 19:35   Link #103
Sinestra
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Im going to have to Banner/Crest and Starship Operators. I loved the space combat in Vandread but it was so unrealistic
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Old 2006-04-25, 10:14   Link #104
Prince of Moles
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The biggest problem is that we just have no idea what the technology will be like in the future.

Heck why would it not be possible to have something like Ideon afterall?

Back to the topic, with our current technology I think the combat portrayed in Planetes (while tiny) is probably quite realistic.
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Old 2006-04-25, 13:30   Link #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
Once a mine is in place, it usually doesn't care about friend or foe. Why? Because smart mines cost more than dumb ones.
Well, in space a dumb mine would be pretty useless. There's just too much er... "space" in space to expect someone to actually physically bump into your mine. The only way you could make a minefield cover a reasonable and useful area without wasting an entire planet's worth of resources on your mines is to have the the mines able to to detect things and move towards them. And if they're detecting things anyway, and therefore you're equipping them with a basic computer and detection equpment anyway, why not have friend or foe recognition?

Anyway, the point is that spacemines are fundamentally different from landmines.
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Old 2006-04-25, 14:16   Link #106
rooboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut89
And if they're detecting things anyway, and therefore you're equipping them with a basic computer and detection equpment anyway, why not have friend or foe recognition?
Which, of course, leads to defeating your friend or foe algorithim, which leads to developing a better one, etc, etc.
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Old 2006-04-25, 14:20   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666
Which, of course, leads to defeating your friend or foe algorithim, which leads to developing a better one, etc, etc.
Of course!
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Old 2006-05-02, 12:15   Link #108
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That thing about space war fair I hate the most is when they have the bridge of the ship in clear view maybe even a window....that is not just stupid but suicidle the bridge needs to be in about the center so the ship can take some damage befor its all over and there should never be a window on a space ship NEVER!!
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Old 2006-05-02, 13:20   Link #109
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaboso
That thing about space war fair I hate the most is when they have the bridge of the ship in clear view maybe even a window....that is not just stupid but suicidle the bridge needs to be in about the center so the ship can take some damage befor its all over and there should never be a window on a space ship NEVER!!
Who cares about the bridge if engineering is toast?
or your ammobay is about to explode




but is some cases one can wonder why they didn't take the time to paint a bullseye on the bridge before they left dock? (i.e. Macross)
Hell, if you're suicidal anyway, why not add some good ol' Gallows humor
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Old 2006-05-02, 14:44   Link #110
ZeusIrae
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ANd honestly with a nuke exploding less then a 1km away,in or out isn't going to change much.

For mines the ep 71 of logh wich is available on AS is pretty good(mobile mines in an asteroid corridor).You should all see it(for the mines and the fact that the battle of mar-adetta is one of the greatest of all history).



watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,
watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,
watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,
watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh,watch logh.

There,if you still refuse you really are stuborn.
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Old 2006-05-02, 20:05   Link #111
Quiddity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince of Moles
The biggest problem is that we just have no idea what the technology will be like in the future.

Heck why would it not be possible to have something like Ideon afterall?
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-05-02, 22:27   Link #112
Prince of Moles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiddity
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


And I also agree with ZeusIrae. I don't know if LotGH is accurate, but it sure depicts pretty space battles that are conceivable.
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Old 2006-05-03, 14:26   Link #113
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but since space has no gravity, wouldnt that mean mines would draw near space vehicles, caus the vehicles mass?
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:01   Link #114
ZeusIrae
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No,there's plenty of gravity in space.The mines have an orbit around the planet,the sun,an asteroid etc.the satellites stay in orbit because of the gravity of the earth,but since they reached a very high speed they don't fall.And earth is moving very fast around the sun,you just don't realize it.



A ship can modify their trajectory but certainly won't be enough to attract the mine.But what you can do is a smart mine with a gravity detector,when it detect a variation in the gravity field,it goes toward it and explode.
It's possible but a gravity detector is probably unnecesserily complex,an infrared detecor should be enough.
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:05   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusIrae
No,there's plenty of gravity in space.The mines have an orbit around the planet,the sun,an asteroid etc.the satellites stay in orbit because of the gravity of the earth,but since they reached a very high speed they don't fall.And earth is moving very fast around the sun,you just don't realize it.



A ship can modify their trajectory but certainly won't be enough to attract the mine.But what you can do is a smart mine with a gravity detector,when it detect a variation in the gravity field,it goes toward it and explode.
It's possible but a gravity detector is probably unnecesserily complex,an infrared detecor should be enough.
actually satelites stay in orbit due to lagrange points in space.
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:08   Link #116
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
but since space has no gravity, wouldnt that mean mines would draw near space vehicles, caus the vehicles mass?
Its a popular misconception that space has no gravity, like ZeusIrae mentioned everything moves really fast to overcome gravity.

If you are able to escape earth, you would need to have at least a minimum orbiting speed of mach 24. Once you reach space, the vacuum would offer no resistance and your inertia will allow you to continue moving at that speed. Astronauts actually do space walks at mach 24.

if you are totally still, with no velocity, you would immediately fall towards the object biggest with largest mass.
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:11   Link #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Its a popular misconception that space has no gravity, like ZeusIrae mentioned everything moves really fast to overcome gravity.

If you are able to escape earth, you would need to have at least a minimum orbiting speed of mach 24. Once you reach space, the vacuum would offer no resistance and your inertia will allow you to continue moving at that speed. Astronauts actually do space walks at mach 24.

if you are totally still, with no velocity, you would immediately fall towards the object biggest with largest mass.
yes thats what i mean
wouldnt mines do that =/
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:15   Link #118
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
but since space has no gravity, wouldnt that mean mines would draw near space vehicles, caus the vehicles mass?
Technically, yes. Everything with any mass has some gravity, so mines would be pulled slightly towards passing objects, including vehicles. It'd probably be an insignificant movement, but over a period of time the mines would get out of alignment alignment from things like this, and interfere with traffic. So, I guess they'd need maintenance. Hm... Even if they auto-corrected themselves (since they'd have thrusters of some sort) you'd need to periodically refuel them. I guess that's another reason not to have space mines.

But no, gravity at that scale is not strong enough to make that kind of attraction significantly dangerous in the short term.

And technically, space does have gravity. Even in orbit, you are being significantly pulled by gravity, you're just missing the horizon while falling. Weightlessness experienced in orbit is simply freefall. Although gravity does get weaker from distance, so you can safely ignore things really far away from you. Unless they're really big. I mean, the Earth is orbiting the sun and the sun orbits the center of the Milky Way, which probably orbits the center of some galactic cluster which is having a significant gravitational effect on you from an inconceivably huge distance! You just don't notice because everything around you is being pulled too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
yes thats what i mean
wouldnt mines do that =/
Ah, late post. Answering this question, "fall" is relative. Gravity is stronger or weaker depending on mass and distance. Mines and ships have such low mass that the acceleration of their "fall" towards each other is negligible.
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:19   Link #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut89
Technically, yes. Everything with any mass has some gravity, so mines would be pulled slightly towards passing objects, including vehicles. It'd probably be an insignificant movement, but over a period of time the mines would get out of alignment alignment from things like this, and interfere with traffic. So, I guess they'd need maintenance. Hm... Even if they auto-corrected themselves (since they'd have thrusters of some sort) you'd need to periodically refuel them. I guess that's another reason not to have space mines.

But no, gravity at that scale is not strong enough to make that kind of attraction significantly dangerous in the short term.

And technically, space does have gravity. Even in orbit, you are being significantly pulled by gravity, you're just miss the horizon while falling. Weightlessness experienced in orbit is simply freefall. Although gravity does get weaker from distance, so you can safely ignore things really far away from you. Unless they're really big. I mean, the Earth is orbiting the sun and the sun orbits the center of the Milky Way, which probably orbits the center of some galactic cluster which is having a significant gravitational effect on you! You just don't notice because everything around you is being pulled too.



Ah, late post. Answering this question, "fall" is relative. Gravity is stronger or weaker depending on mass and distance. Mines and ships have such low mass that the acceleration of their "fall" towards each other is negligible.
of course theres no need to bring up the n-problem again since i already discussed about it ^^;;
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Old 2006-05-03, 15:23   Link #120
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
yes thats what i mean
wouldnt mines do that =/
Well I see your point, but there are some factors to consider:

How is the mine deployed? Does the mine layer stop and place mines or move and place?

If the mine is placed by a 'stationary' vehicle, it would just freefall to the heaviest object. If it was placed while moving, it would continue moving in the direction of the vehicle and be accelerated towards the heaviest object. Objects in space dont fall towards the nearest object, but instead, more towards the heaviest object.

Does the mine have propulsion on its own? Or is it a dumb mine?

A dumb mine without any propulsion would behave like what I said above, but a self propelling mine would be able to station itself in a spot. And only a self propelled mine may be able to move towards approaching targets.
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