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Old 2006-04-16, 17:50   Link #21
melange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Spoiler:


This is starting to look like what Itsuki might've said somehow...
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-16, 18:03   Link #22
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Old 2006-04-16, 23:57   Link #23
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To reply to a couple of posts in the episode 3 thread. Since it's more about future episode predictions, I'll put the reply here.
===============
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
That's an interesting observation about 'episode 7'. Vol 1 definitely needs a lot more screen time to finish it off. Compressing it doesn't look like it would work as those events are really important. So they may actually be doing what I had asked earlier in a different thread - rearranging events to interperse between the major character intros/explanations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
From the next episode preview, it appears there is going to be no attempts made to bridge the gap between episode 1 (2) and episode 7 (3).
Guess that makes sense in a way... We are going to be watching episodes in random order, by the looks of it. Very Haruhi.
Here's an examination, from a novel reader's point of view:

- The anime appears that it will cover up to Shoushitsu (消失, volume 4) (one proof is the Winter hot-pot shot in the ED sequence). Going any further is unlikely, given that we only have 14 (well, 13) episodes.

- Out of the the first 4 volumes (Yuutsu, Tameiki, Taikutsu, Shoushitsu), the only volume that's made up of a series of short, one-shot stories is Taikutsu (volume 3). Tameiki (volume 2), on the other hand, was already covered by Episode00 (well, Tameiki really only covered the filming process, the actual Episode00 movie was played out as a short-story chapter in Douyou (動揺, volume 6).

In other words, even though the anime is going to cover the first 4 volumes, the "main story" will be most likely be extracted from volume 1 (Yuutsu) and 4 (Shoushitsu). And it makes perfect sense to anyone who has read the novels because we know that these two volumes are where things actually get serious, compared to the "side-story-ish" feel of 2 and 3.

- We know that volume 2 probably won't be touched on anymore, so the remaining episodes will probably be using contents from volume 1, 3, and 4.

- By the end of episode 3, we know that Kyoani is going to start splitting volume 1 up and mixing in Taikutsu (volume 3) episodes. Which makes sense in two levels:

1. In volume 1, Yuki's "introduction" is immediately followed by Mikuru's, then Koizumi's, and then the Asakura event. If the anime showed all of these events one right after another, it's possible that the sudden flood of information might turn off some first-time watchers, and since volume 1's mood remains pretty serious after that until the very end, showing Yuutsu as one whole "package" probably wouldn't work.

2. Taikutsu (volume 3) is made up of 4 short-stories: Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu, Sasa no Ha Rhapsody, Mysterious Sign, Kotou Shoukougun (Suzumiya Haruhi's Boredom, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Mysterious Sign, Lone Island Syndrome). They're independent from each other, and can be easily broken up into seperate episodes. Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is actually quite an important chapter plot-wise too.

- So, the conclusion is: the anime will probably continue with Yuutsu's story, with episodes from Taikutsu thown in there every now and then. Shoushitsu, on the other hand, can't come in until the later episodes after most (...if not ALL, including Haruhi and Kyon's ____ scene, if they chose not to use it as an ending) of Yuutsu has been shown.

So, as a concrete example, it might be something like:
Episode 1: Episode00
Episode 2~10: 5~6 Yuutsu episodes + 3~4 Taikutsu episodes
Episode 11~14: 2~4 Shoushitsu episode + maybe 1~2 Yuutsu episode? (if they choose Yuutsu's end as the ending)
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Old 2006-04-18, 03:46   Link #24
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Another reply about future episode discussion, sorry for the double post. ^^;
===========================
Quote:
Originally Posted by disorderman
Maybe like this:
1話 朝比奈ミクルの冒険
2話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
3話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅱ
4話 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
5話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅲ
6話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅳ
7話 笹の葉ラプソディ
8話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅰ
9話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅱ
10話 射手座の日
11話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅰ
12話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅱ
13話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅲ
14話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅳ
That looks perfectly plausible too, 笹の葉ラプソディ is absolutely crucial to the story so it must be there. I think the first 7 episodes will probably play out just like the way you listed. 2 溜息 episodes and 射手座の日 would serve as a good bridge (timeline wise) between volume 1 (憂鬱) and volume 4 (消失), although there could be other combinations. As for 4 消失 episodes to round out the pack, I agree with that too. The anime will most likely end with the 消失 ending, it's a lot more "neutral" compared to 憂鬱's ending.
(But that means Yuki gets to take center stage during the final episodes then. I don't mind though, that "alternate" Yuki moe'd me to death ^^; )

I'm personally looking forward to seeing:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-18, 19:21   Link #25
melange
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In an attempt to bring disparate discussions together in a more suitable thread, I will reproduce the more "Speculation"-ish posts from episode 3 here. Apologies in advance if I had misquoted/etc anyone's words.

Posts on Haruhi's nature:

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Haruhi is a modern interpretation of a classical Greek hero(ine) if we think about it. Luckily the take's not Shakesphereian since her greatest strength would be the perfect downfall. After thinking of Haruhi outside of anime context, I find her to be most befitting of the epic heroes.

Much like the flawed deities, Haruhi's personality is not taken out from straight cookie cutter. Her obsession and that undying thirst for change exceeds all else and it manifests itself in the display of her everyday antics, her mental states and
Spoiler:
That creativity which rivals that of Prometheus proves itself to be as horrifying as the gift of fire was to the gods (look at where the Greek gods are today?)

Kyon is unique in his role as not mere narriator but the bridge to observe the kind of 'madness' that is Haruhi. Haruhi, ever so curious of it all, becomes so destructive to the surrounding (as humanity is) as she refuses to conform and instead confronts/alters the very nature (again, humanity). Justifying means with ends, she relentlessly pushes her agenda of countering boredom. (Sounds almost hedonist utilitarian)

Haruhi becomes fascinating to me because... to me she embodies humanity. Ever so curious, ever so eager to play with fire, ever so headstrong, so proud, so uncompromising, maybe even nearsighted that she... we human... become monsters... freaks of nature in retrospect.

Spoiler:

Kyon does not shy in being the one that has the power to present and subsequently interpret the acts of the heroes... in some ways putting things into stone. He carries the weight of commentator which is from nearly of no significence to being the key influence with our conclusion on what we've been given. That in itself proves to be an interesting power... think of the power that Homer and all subsequent scribes and monks have had just in transcribing/retelling oral epics into how we know of them today.
Kyon's ventage point in observing Haruhi and the SOS is omnipresent in some ways. His narriation at time levitates him from the scene as he speaks directly to the audience and his access to all the actors seemingly fits everything into an acrylic case, just as Plutarch and his imitators have had the advantage of time as their mean of being omnipresent in their story retellings.

The strength in a pen or narriation though is relative (Leon Trotsky and an ice dagger illustrates that pretty clearly...) and it shows in Kyon's involvement. Funny in some ways and all too real as well >.< (though a bit bloody an illustration). I am liking him more and more as Haruhi progresses.

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange in reply to Panzerfan
Nice. It seems that you've managed to pin down Haruhi's (and Kyon's) archetype
Spoiler for discussion on Haruhi's nature:
----------------------------------------
Posts on the ethics of Haruhi:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelastguardian
You may say that, but Haruhi is not evil, in traditional sense. More like rampant disregard of other's well being .

Actually that's not exactly right.

Spoiler for minor-medium:


As the story goes on, you will see different side of Haruhi. Some are nice, some are funny, one or two even made me go "wow I never knew she is like that inside her mind". The story needs time to develope its characters.

There is a method in her madness. More than method, actually. She is a very rounded character.

If I have to complain, I would complain about Mikuru. She gets the short end of the stick in terms of character developement. Therefore out of the four primary supportive characters, I like her the least.

Spoiler for very minor:


To Sushi-
Spoiler for very heavy, novel oriented:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y in reply to Lastguardian
That's true, although Haruhi's treatment of Mikuru in this episode was mean, it was still within the "can be laughed off as a joke" level. Some of the things Haruhi did in volume 2, on the other hand, really begins to push against that "funny/not funny" borderline (although she didn't really mean it). But then again, it all adds to the realism of Haruhi's character, don't you think? Haruhi's not Haruhi unless she's always dashing ahead at full-speed, ignoring all traffic signs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Frankly the 'computer blackmail' scene isn't that disturbing in the anime or in the novel for me. I couldn't help but laugh. Though of course they are 'cruel', I found most of the Mikuru-bullying scenes funny in the black humor type way but it's actually another Mikuru-bullying scene in the 2nd novel that left me with a bad taste in my mouth and really soured my enjoyment of Haruhi.
Spoiler for 2nd novel spoilers:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y in reply to melange
Haruhi didn't mean it, of course. Remember, although Haruhi may appear like she's always doing things by her own methods, she's actually a perfectly logical person inside. What makes Haruhi unique is her ability to totally ignore those logics.
Spoiler for volume 2 scene:

Of course, we don't even know if the anime would even bother to go back to volume 2 again, so maybe we won't get to see that scene at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze in reply to Sushi-Y's "Haruhi didn't mean it of course"
Eh, I don't think thats a good reasoning/defence for Haruhi's actions.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan in reply to Eclipze
That is the duality of the subject matter. Utilitarian will simply either say that a 'greater good' can be generated or that these acts of abuse has no downside from the perspective of the result as to prevent them. On the other hand moralists, relative or absolute will argue to infringements to fundamental 'rules' of these acts are not tolerable/wrong and gains do not take away from the impact of those infringements.

Spoiler:


Looking at the visage that is yourself proves to be difficult... putting complicity aside there's the burden of arrogance to be answered. To make matters worse shames that adult put shroud/clothes over in silent recognition and to see such ugliness, unabridged and naked...blatently displayed.

In kyon's defense, he has a backbone. As a matter of fact Yuki and Itsuki have that as well. However, to put into context (and not spoil the story) let's just say Haruhi holds significent deterrence in her hands to keep the SOS at bay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
Ok now for the parts that could get me in trouble in which I will spoiler so that those who choose to avoid my thoughts can do so
Spoiler for oh noes trouble ahead!:


Also, Eclipze I don't think your example is very fitting of Haruhi's character as the intent to harm is already inherent in the action. Regardless if you didn't mean to harm someone else, the intent to harm is already present in that case. In Haruhi's case, she's more like a child trying to get your attention by pulling the tail of a cat who is clearly not enjoying the aggrivation. You (for example are the owner of the cat) aren't very happy since the child is basically torturing your cat, so you scold them. Mission success for the child as (s)he has obtained your attention now.

Speaking of which: @TheLastGuardian & Melange
Spoiler:
----
In response to Shirobane
I'm sorry you clicked on the spoiler, but I did put "2nd novel spoilers" for a reason
Spoiler:
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Last edited by melange; 2006-04-18 at 19:35.
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Old 2006-04-18, 20:03   Link #26
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Is it just me, or does kyon

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-18, 20:21   Link #27
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Kyon's narriation in ep0 are sarcastic and poignant so... they hint to another level of the obvious facts.

Spoiler:


No Keitarou, Kyon bleeds out his heartfelt comments in a very 'unassuming' way in ep0 and could be brushed off as mere humor elements. (this makes me like Kyon that much more) There is significant finesse on his part to achieve doublespeak and looks so good doing it.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-18, 20:26   Link #28
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well, its good that we know kyon is a "hero" is his own sense. After all...

Spoiler:


We salute you Kyon, for your manly sacrifice!
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Old 2006-04-18, 20:51   Link #29
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Hmm, so I see my post got Haruhi-ed over to this thread
Thanks for the response Melange and Thelastguardian from the ep 3 thread.
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Old 2006-04-18, 21:00   Link #30
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This has been really fun. It's been a long time since I baked my noddle over any anime and never did I just... think about it for a while and having to let it sink in. I practically sat in my chair as the posts just come in like a floodgate and try to hold onto the ride... slept late waiting for opinions if not answers. We've been having some very interesting conversations and we're not even 1/4 done with Haruhi the anime. This is great.
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Old 2006-04-18, 21:18   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
This has been really fun. It's been a long time since I baked my noddle over any anime and never did I just... think about it for a while and having to let it sink in. I practically sat in my chair as the posts just come in like a floodgate and try to hold onto the ride... slept late waiting for opinions if not answers. We've been having some very interesting conversations and we're not even 1/4 done with Haruhi the anime. This is great.

yeah know what you mean, i've been sleeping at 7am for a the past week now. dammitr. i blame haruhi. but..but.. i can't stop...must......have...haruhi!!

I'm kinda scared, if im this bad, imagine if i had been expose to those sucidal cults?!!

i'm so glad it was haruhi.

haruhiism banzai,
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Old 2006-04-18, 21:53   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
Is it just me, or does kyon

Spoiler:
Here's what Kyon thinks of the SOS-dan members (imo):
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-19, 01:16   Link #33
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Haruhi really has worked herself into my daily life as like Onizuka I also have my sleep schedule all messed up because of her. How fitting

About Kyon's opinion of Mikuru...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
Here's what Kyon thinks of the SOS-dan members (imo):
[spoiler]
Mikuru: Time traveller from the future, although she sure doesn't act like one. Needs to be protected.

Kyon considers Mikuru to be his innocent goddess, he loves watching her dressed up in various costumes (his favorite is still her maid costume, which will become Mikuru's "uniform" whenever she's in the SOS-dan club room), and seeing her smile "heals" him from the pains of Haruhi's tyranny.
Spoiler for novel 2 spoilers:
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Old 2006-04-19, 02:03   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Haruhi really has worked herself into my daily life as like Onizuka I also have my sleep schedule all messed up because of her. How fitting

About Kyon's opinion of Mikuru...

Spoiler for novel 2 spoilers:
Spoiler spoiler tag...

Spoiler for don't press if you know what's good for you:
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Old 2006-04-19, 10:50   Link #35
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Of course, this leaves our point of reference at Kyon. We are forced to take Kyon's POV as absolute as we observe how everything moves around Haruhi (much like how Earth is where we make observations to how the solar system revolves around the sun and how the sun revolves around Alpha Centauri. )

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-19, 13:04   Link #36
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These are purely random thoughts, although since the anime hasn't gotten into Haruhi's 'abilities' much yet I'll put it in spoiler tags:

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-19, 13:39   Link #37
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Hmm... (it is odd how the discussions on Haruhi, unlike other animes recently, become very metaphysical/philisophical.)

Spoiler:

Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-04-19 at 13:52.
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Old 2006-04-19, 23:05   Link #38
melange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
Another reply about future episode discussion, sorry for the double post. ^^;
===========================

That looks perfectly plausible too, ???????? is absolutely crucial to the story so it must be there. I think the first 7 episodes will probably play out just like the way you listed. 2 ?? episodes and ????? would serve as a good bridge (timeline wise) between volume 1 (??) and volume 4 (??), although there could be other combinations. As for 4 ?? episodes to round out the pack, I agree with that too. The anime will most likely end with the ?? ending, it's a lot more "neutral" compared to ??'s ending.
(But that means Yuki gets to take center stage during the final episodes then. I don't mind though, that "alternate" Yuki moe'd me to death ^^; )

I'm personally looking forward to seeing:
Spoiler:
Going back to the discussion on future episodes...
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-04-20, 01:11   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Going back to the discussion on future episodes...
Spoiler:
It's possible, although it's not that important of a chapter.

The thing is, if we were to set "The end of volume 4" as the anime's ending, then that would give us a clear range of the short-stories that might be included in the anime. Here's an in-story timeline of the Suzumiya Haruhi series, up to the end of volume 4:
Spoiler:

To clean it up a little,
Spoiler:

My version of the episode list, then, would probably look like:
Spoiler:

In case you can't tell, I love pointlessly guessing future episode directions. ^^;
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Old 2006-04-20, 01:37   Link #40
melange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
It's possible, although it's not that important of a chapter.

The thing is, if we were to set "The end of volume 4" as the anime's ending, then that would give us a clear range of the short-stories that might be included in the anime. Here's an in-story timeline of the Suzumiya Haruhi series, up to the end of volume 4:
Spoiler:

To clean it up a little,
Spoiler:

My version of the episode list, then, would probably look like:
Spoiler:

In case you can't tell, I love pointlessly guessing future episode directions. ^^;
*lets out a small tameiki* Well any attempt I have at trying to discuss the episode line-up is going to be handicapped by my plodding progress through the novels but...

Spoiler for about Taikutsu in the middle of vol 1:

Edit:
Spoiler for usage or non-usage of Vol. 1 ending:
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Last edited by melange; 2006-04-20 at 09:18.
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