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Old 2006-04-15, 13:00   Link #41
ChainLegacy
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
I don't think it is 'okay' to break a law, but if you disagree with the law and your breaking it does not/will not hurt anyone, then I think it is okay to break the law. I break laws, but only if I know no one will get hurt by my actions.
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Old 2006-04-15, 13:16   Link #42
Kurz
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Law is important for a very simple reason. It maintains stability within a society.
Its basically the equilvalient to Playground rules, if you follow the rules everyone is happy and free to play and do whatever they wish.

If you break the rules its like having everyone in the playground come up to you and get in your face for doing something wrong. This is not a bad thing, it keeps people in line with the group.

However if a Law gets in the way of your life in some way you have the right to stand up against it. Its your civic duty to do so, since most people dont bother with it, which explains for the majority of wacky laws.
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Old 2006-04-15, 17:17   Link #43
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
If you break the rules its like having everyone in the playground come up to you and get in your face for doing something wrong. This is not a bad thing, it keeps people in line with the group.
A scary thought
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Old 2006-04-15, 17:43   Link #44
Newtyped
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someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,
if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed
therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.
It depends on what happens.
If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:04   Link #45
Yotsuba
芸術は爆発だ!
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,
if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed
therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.
It depends on what happens.
If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.


Translate into English, please.
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:05   Link #46
Yotsuba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy
I don't think it is 'okay' to break a law, but if you disagree with the law and your breaking it does not/will not hurt anyone, then I think it is okay to break the law. I break laws, but only if I know no one will get hurt by my actions.
I agree with you. Once your actions start hurting others, it's no longer OK by me.
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:20   Link #47
Catgirls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuba
Translate into English, please.
I can help. I speak Jive.

>>someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,

Someone tried to steal his hat. A "fitted" is a non-adjustable hat that's fitted to your head size.

>>if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed

If he didn't flash his gun, he would have been robbed. "Heat" usually means gun, but it can also mean any sort of weapon that you might have on you.

>>therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.

It seems here, that he feels that during extreme situations or circumstances where you might need to protect yourself or your property, you should take the law into your own hands regardless of the fact that if everyone did that, it would be total chaos and anarchy. Of course, a 14 year old waving a gun around in such an environment would be the first to have his head blown off.

>>It depends on what happens.

I believe this is the old "means to an end" philosophy.

>>If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.

Back to his weapon ("heat"). He's saying that if he walked around waving his gun in public for no particular reason, then he should be jailed.
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:25   Link #48
srb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,
if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed
therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.
It depends on what happens.
If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.
Laws regarding public safety and carrying concealed weaponry in public should be ignored just so you can escalate a potentially incredibly dangerous situation?

You are not a police officer or a politician tasked with fighting crime. It is not your job. You are fourteen and threatened someone with a weapon over a goddamn piece of materialistic trash! Granted, he attempted to rob you first, but doesn't it give you a different view of things when someone is prepared to break the laws which protects citizens from abuse (including you) due to the government's legal monopoly on violence over some useless materialistic item? There's something more to it than "he's a criminal, so I will use my gun to keep him away". What's the reason he's turned to crime?

That's what you will learn in school, should you attempt to learn it and then go on to a form of higher education. It should not come to you as a surprise when I say that most people that do rob other people haven't finished school or finished it with piss-poor grades and never attempted to gain a greater understanding of things. This is usuallly due to their socioeconomic backgrounds and troubled lives, which will in turn also propel them against crime, many beginning even before they finish (or don't finish, as the case may be) their mandatory schooling.

Just think about things, instead of pretending to know when you've barely lived a fifth of your life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuba
I agree with you. Once your actions start hurting others, it's no longer OK by me.
This is the ideal carried by most adherers of proper civil disobedience, right?
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:29   Link #49
Yotsuba
芸術は爆発だ!
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
I can help. I speak Jive.

>>someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,

Someone tried to steal his hat. A "fitted" is a non-adjustable hat that's fitted to your head size.

>>if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed

If he didn't flash his gun, he would have been robbed. "Heat" usually means gun, but it can also mean any sort of weapon that you might have on you.

>>therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.

It seems here, that he feels that during extreme situations or circumstances where you might need to protect yourself or your property, you should take the law into your own hands regardless of the fact that if everyone did that, it would be total chaos and anarchy. Of course, a 14 year old waving a gun around in such an environment would be the first to have his head blown off.

>>It depends on what happens.

I believe this is the old "means to an end" philosophy.

>>If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.

Back to his weapon ("heat"). He's saying that if he walked around waving his gun in public for no particular reason, then he should be jailed.
Thank you, Catgirls. I should probably learn to understand this kind of thing..
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:50   Link #50
Kurz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ
A scary thought
Its supposed to be scary. Fear of conquences is a deterent of many things.
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Old 2006-04-16, 00:57   Link #51
srb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
Its supposed to be scary. Fear of conquences is a deterent of many things.
Like what? There's no law which I am afraid of breaking, the reasons I don't are entirely independent from fear, and I assume it is the same for most.
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Old 2006-04-16, 03:07   Link #52
Deo Death
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I believe, that no matter what, someone has the right to do whatever they believe so long as they do not hurt anyone that has done no harm to them or their loved ones. Whether or not it breaks a law or not is no different matter. If I beleive that I'm being payed low as a cop, then by god, I'll go to strike even though police officiers are not allowed to go on strike by law, along with teachers and something else... Anyway, I don't think that any law should be broken if it is in place for the safety of man, but if it is merely to put restrictions on me, I'll break it if I believe it's right.
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Old 2006-04-16, 12:31   Link #53
NightbatŪ
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Neverlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
Its supposed to be scary. Fear of conquences is a deterent of many things.
I actually meant this:
Quote:
it keeps people in line with the group.
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Old 2006-04-16, 23:23   Link #54
ImperialPanda
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Pft there's no such thing as morality. When all is said and done every decision is cost vs benefit. Deciding on whether to break a law or not is the same as deciding on whether to buy a donut for breakfast, except on a slightly bigger scale.

There's nothing special about laws. If the benefits are greater than the cost, then people will do it. Always.

Of course, cost means a lot more than simply the money you pay or the jail time you spend. There's also social cost (e.g. lose friends, lose community standing, lose reputation, etc etc) and others.

"Altruists" or "upstanding citizens" simply value social benefits more than others. Considered from this point of view, they are just as selfish as anyone else. However, I will conceed that there might be a very small number of truly selfless people. But if they exist then you probably don't know them, because they would have to be helpful while seeking zero attention.

Anywho, the point is there is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to making or breaking laws. Cost vs benefit.

It'll be a cold day in hell before you can depend on humans acting because it's "moral."
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Old 2006-04-17, 08:50   Link #55
Aoie_Emesai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialPanda
Pft there's no such thing as morality. When all is said and done every decision is cost vs benefit. Deciding on whether to break a law or not is the same as deciding on whether to buy a donut for breakfast, except on a slightly bigger scale.

There's nothing special about laws. If the benefits are greater than the cost, then people will do it. Always.

Of course, cost means a lot more than simply the money you pay or the jail time you spend. There's also social cost (e.g. lose friends, lose community standing, lose reputation, etc etc) and others.

"Altruists" or "upstanding citizens" simply value social benefits more than others. Considered from this point of view, they are just as selfish as anyone else. However, I will conceed that there might be a very small number of truly selfless people. But if they exist then you probably don't know them, because they would have to be helpful while seeking zero attention.

Anywho, the point is there is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to making or breaking laws. Cost vs benefit.

It'll be a cold day in hell before you can depend on humans acting because it's "moral."
You are correct. It seems that the more noble and generous one becomes, they become rather arrogrant and concieded, egotistical what ever you want to call it. When humans gain power, it always seems to stereotype them to become overly abusive of their powers and become loathed but are inspirations for others who may want achieve that goal of an exorbitant nature. This often reminds me of the saying "Noble of ones own religion", but it seems there's no such things as the truly faithful anymore, or it seems.

I know i've lost all faith in everything, so my obligations for self-righteous to the law in which is so loosly supported and can be almost manipulated, it's just something I have a hard time obeying. I only follow it because, I'll be charged for breaking the law.
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Old 2006-04-17, 09:17   Link #56
Kurz
Gao~ a sound for the ages
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: I live in a relm of swirling of thought and emotion, Ever lost in the relm of infinite possiblities.
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat®
I actually meant this:
Some thing.
Being outcasted from a group can be considered a consquence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srb
Like what? There's no law which I am afraid of breaking, the reasons I don't are entirely independent from fear, and I assume it is the same for most.
First off if you were able to take money from a bank without any sort of punishment... wont you keep doing it?

There are many who rather not harm what others are doing, yet there is a minority who dont care about others or feel the outcome justifies the means.
Why do you think most repeat offenders are Anti-social? They care for number #1 or they were driven that way by the environment.

I'll say this, I aint no professor in the reasons people commet crime.
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Old 2006-04-17, 13:18   Link #57
Soka-chan
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Age: 28
Mmm....breaking a law JUST because you disagree with it is childish: laws are there for something, and it's an implicit social pact that we follow them. However...

However, if everyone followed the law without giving it much thought, social development would be inexistent. People have to think the laws, think about their fairness, excuse for exiting, appropiate-ness....and if a law is clearly not fair, not procedent or appropiate then the people as one should rise to erase it and the leaders that came up with it.

Have you seen V of Vendetta? My point exaclty^^
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Old 2006-04-17, 16:21   Link #58
Lexander
www.thefestlanders.com
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
I'm having issues with the marijuana laws myself ... I don't think I'm cheating anyone ... or causing any trouble with my habit.

If it was taxed I'd gladly buy it from a pharmacy, but until that day I'll be supporting pothead drug dealers, because I don't feel the ban is justified.

Here's a rundown of how my day usually goes ...

I go to work at 8am ... around 4:30pm i go home and have a smoke on my balcony away from all the children that might smell it and get hooked to it and go down a path of darkness and crack cocaine.
At 6PM I go school till 9:30PM. I walk to school so there is no DUI arguement even though by 6 I am completely sober.
So far I haven't noticed any change in my schedule with or without the stuff.
In the 2 hours between work and school I get an excellent rest.

It doesn't change much about me (other than that I'm obviously not as healthy as I should be) and most importantly it has no negative impact on anyone around me.
Oh an it makes dinner delicious every time. I guess they consider that reefer madness.
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Old 2006-04-17, 18:55   Link #59
Chichi
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Join Date: Dec 2005
A human being is a tamed beast for a reason.
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Old 2006-04-30, 22:45   Link #60
Aoie_Emesai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
I can help. I speak Jive.

>>someone tried to rob me for my fitted today,

Someone tried to steal his hat. A "fitted" is a non-adjustable hat that's fitted to your head size.

>>if i didnt take out my heat than i would have been robbed

If he didn't flash his gun, he would have been robbed. "Heat" usually means gun, but it can also mean any sort of weapon that you might have on you.

>>therefore i believe in certain circumstances, laws should be ignored.

It seems here, that he feels that during extreme situations or circumstances where you might need to protect yourself or your property, you should take the law into your own hands regardless of the fact that if everyone did that, it would be total chaos and anarchy. Of course, a 14 year old waving a gun around in such an environment would be the first to have his head blown off.

>>It depends on what happens.

I believe this is the old "means to an end" philosophy.

>>If i just went into public waving around my heat, than i think that would be fair enuf to be illegal.

Back to his weapon ("heat"). He's saying that if he walked around waving his gun in public for no particular reason, then he should be jailed.
Your jargons confuses me "CatGirls". Ahhh.. the wonders of sign language. So basically you are saying " if someone shoots you and you have a gun you shoot back?" Go self defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chichi
A human being is a tamed beast for a reason.
Well.... not necessarily true. You can base a judgement on statistics and common human reactions to different situations, but humans are truly predictable? I don't think so. Depending on the person, the response will be different. It can be a docile person, or a complusive person. Either way, there's no true notion to say " humans are tamed."

Though I do belive that you are absoutly correct on some parts. Using basic knowledge on a human's regular reactions can help you determine what actions to do next.

Here's a example:


(Gun Man)




(Gun Man)
(YOU)
[Door]




(Gun Man)

Which way do you run? hahaha ^_^
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Last edited by Aoie_Emesai; 2006-04-30 at 23:01.
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