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Old 2008-09-20, 10:07   Link #1121
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
guys in some other forums it's said that that Emiri will be part of Figma Tsuruya and Shiraishi...err...Taniguchi-kun will be part of Ryoko.

So 2 heads. So if anyone prefers Tani over Kyon take off Kyon's head and replace it with Tani, though I doubt that someone would prefer an Emiri head over Tsuruya's.
Actually I'd prefer Emiri over Tsuruya-san's lol

I like Tsuruya-san's character, but Emiri still looks prettier.

The non humans in this show all looked the prettiest for me, Haruhi, Yuki, Ryoko and Emiri.
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Old 2008-09-20, 10:23   Link #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Actually I'd prefer Emiri over Tsuruya-san's lol

I like Tsuruya-san's character, but Emiri still looks prettier.

The non humans in this show all looked the prettiest for me, Haruhi, Yuki, Ryoko and Emiri.
That I can agree on 100%.

Beauty - Ryoko

Cuteness - Emiri

Moe - Nagato Yuki.
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Old 2008-09-20, 10:26   Link #1123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
guys in some other forums it's said that that Emiri will be part of Figma Tsuruya and Shiraishi...err...Taniguchi-kun will be part of Ryoko.

So 2 heads. So if anyone prefers Tani over Kyon take off Kyon's head and replace it with Tani, though I doubt that someone would prefer an Emiri head over Tsuruya's.
Wow, if the news of both Emiri and Taniguchi weren't enough this week, this is even better. Why you ask? It means that you can have the figures by Nov instead of having to wait for a release next year if they there were whole figures and instead of Max Factory taking a chance with releasing whole figures of lesser important characters who may not sell well, this saves them money since hardcore collectors will buy two Tsuruyas to get a whole Emiri while causal collectors may only buy one Tsuruya and not care about Emiri which would mean that there wouldn't be a glutton of her whole figures if she was released separately. I can only hope they make a Battle Waitress Mikuru (Witch Yuki needs someone to fight!), a Bunny Haruhi with guitar, School Waitress Tsuruya, and a Imouto for good measure Though given that she would have to be a completely new sculpt, I don't know if they want to take a chance on making her but if you're listening Max Factory, just throw in a large bag accessory that she can fit in and she's sell well. I guarantee it!
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Old 2008-09-20, 12:34   Link #1124
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Also BTW!!! Figma also has "PARTS" for sale. For broken Figma's like Nanoha's hands, legs and even Saber's.

http://goodsmile.info/parts/parts.html

Hopefully we'll have a body, arm, groin and leg parts of the SOS dan members to make Teni-kun and Emi-chan. saves money doesn't it?|
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Old 2008-09-20, 13:23   Link #1125
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
That I can agree on 100%.

Beauty - Ryoko

Cuteness - Emiri

Moe - Nagato Yuki.
Ryoko terrifies me, and Emiri is never really objectified in either the novels or the series at all... Yuki is a Mary Sue, and largely undeserving of the attention she gets from both the characters and the fanbase.

Haruhi all the way for me.
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Old 2008-09-20, 14:08   Link #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Emiri is never really objectified in either the novels or the series at all...
Which is funny, given the fact that Kyon seems to have a bit of a crush on her... at least that's the impression I get.

Of course, it's mainly because she's never actually used in the novels or series...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yuki is a Mary Sue, and largely undeserving of the attention she gets from both the characters and the fanbase.

Haruhi all the way for me.
Also funny, considering the fact that Haruhi being the title character, lead male's true object of affection, goddess, and capable of turning nearly any situation around if she really wanted to is also rather Mary Sue-ish...


Of course, I'm going to agree with you on the Asakura part... thanks to her, I pretty much always expect seemingly nice blue-haired anime girls to go all psycho for no reason
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Old 2008-09-20, 14:13   Link #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Which is funny, given the fact that Kyon seems to have a bit of a crush on her... at least that's the impression I get.

Of course, it's mainly because she's never actually used in the novels or series...
He says the same things about every pretty girl he meets, though... even Sasaki.

It's not like actually likes her, mind... just that, as a guy, it's something he notices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Also funny, considering the fact that Haruhi being the title character, lead male's true object of affection, goddess, and capable of turning nearly any situation around if she really wanted to is also rather Mary Sue-ish...
A large portion of the story is devoted to justifying WHY Haruhi is a Mary Sue... Yuki has no excuse.

Yuki is loved by everyone, gets all the attention, and has more stories written about her than the title character does.

And the whole "true object of affection" thing is really up to Tanigawa, himself a Yuki fanboy...

God, I hate Yuki so bloody much.
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Old 2008-09-20, 15:23   Link #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yuki is loved by everyone, gets all the attention, and has more stories written about her than the title character does.
Stories written about Yuki: Mysterique Sign(arguably), The Day of Sagittarius, Disappearance, Charmed at First Sight LOVER
Stories written about Haruhi: Melancholy, Boredom(arguably), Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Live A Live

I excluded Editor in Chief, as although it seems like it'd be a Yuki story, Haruhi pretty much hijacked it from the beginning...

Quote:
And the whole "true object of affection" thing is really up to Tanigawa, himself a Yuki fanboy...
Disappearance. Kyon spent the entire freaking story thinking of Haruhi, even with Yuki right there in front of him. And that was supposed to be a Yuki story. [sarc]Right, they're going to end up together.[/sarc]


I decided to handle this part last...

Quote:
A large portion of the story is devoted to justifying WHY Haruhi is a Mary Sue... Yuki has no excuse.
Actually, she does. The Interfaces' "data manipulation" abilities work on the principles of Digital Physics, meaning they are capable of manipulating their surroundings. Haruhi is capable of outright creating "data."

I will admit that Yuki is often used as a walking Deus ex Machina, however.



Besides, there's someone who's even worse than both of them put together.

Who's the only person who can actually talk Haruhi out of anything, up to and including the complete destruction of the world? Kyon.
Who is it that most of Yuki's actions revolve around? Kyon.
Who does Mikuru always run to for protection? Kyon.
Who is so manly that pretty boy Itsuki, who could have any girl he wants, goes gay for him? Kyon.
Who did Asakura try to kill in order to motivate Haruhi into taking action? Kyon.
Which main character's real name do we conveniently never hear? Kyon's.
Who manages to figure out how to save the day nearly every story, despite being an "ordinary human?" Kyon.
Who "conveniently" shared his fielding position with the author during Boredom? Kyon.
Who is the narrator-slash-main-character of this whole thing? KYON.

Let's face it, this story is the world's most popular fanfic for a series that doesn't exist, and Kyon's the author-insert character.
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Old 2008-09-20, 16:12   Link #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post

A large portion of the story is devoted to justifying WHY Haruhi is a Mary Sue... Yuki has no excuse.

Yuki is loved by everyone, gets all the attention, and has more stories written about her than the title character does.

And the whole "true object of affection" thing is really up to Tanigawa, himself a Yuki fanboy...

God, I hate Yuki so bloody much.


Yuki's not a Mary Sue, because she can't do everything. >_> Such as Talking extremely loudly, and making 100 friends any time soon. :U Actually she doesn't even sound like a Mary sue, Ryoko has more of a Mary-sue personality IMO, like, she can probably do the same things as Yuki, its just Yuki has more power, and Ryoko even earned a AAA from Taniguchi. I mean a beauty, gets along with everyone, nice, althletic, etc. Yuki's almost nonexistent in the school. = w=;;

Yuki's not loved by Mikuru. =P Also its probably because we know little about Yuki since she never talks much, with Haruhi, well she just RAMBLES ON AND ON. Plus Kyon has the most stories, since almost everything is told in his perpective.

Eh Kyon will end up with Haruhi most likely. Just because you're a fan of someone doesn't mean you're going to make her/him end up with the main character. Unless you pull a Digimon.. Plus throughout the novel, Kyon hasn't shown Yuki half as much affection as Haruhi. :U

God I love Yuki so bloody much.

Though actually one less fan means more for me to love. <33
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Old 2008-09-20, 17:31   Link #1130
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Yuki is just easier to write for really. "Robot-like"/"emotion-less" characters are usually the easiers to write character development stories about, so this is why they tend to get used more often than other characters. Doesn't even have to be a Mary Sue to make it easy.
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Old 2008-09-20, 20:01   Link #1131
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by BookOfMages View Post
[color=darkblue]Yuki's almost nonexistent in the school. = w=;;
To the school? Yes. To the main cast, she's all like "MUST BE PROTECTED FROM ALL SUFFERING!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BookOfMages View Post
Eh Kyon will end up with Haruhi most likely. Just because you're a fan of someone doesn't mean you're going to make her/him end up with the main character. Unless you pull a Digimon.. Plus throughout the novel, Kyon hasn't shown Yuki half as much affection as Haruhi. :U
I disagree... he shows more affection for Mikuru than for either, and shows disdain for Haruhi more than he shows affection for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Disappearance. Kyon spent the entire freaking story thinking of Haruhi, even with Yuki right there in front of him. And that was supposed to be a Yuki story. [sarc]Right, they're going to end up together.[/sarc]
Look at the later volumes, though. And that wasn't the real Yuki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Besides, there's someone who's even worse than both of them put together.
Kyon is written realistically, and has a lot of character flaws... and you can argue that the reason he gets so much attention is because a) He's the main character and b) Thanks to Haruhi's attention.

I consider Yuki a Mary Sue not because of her powers, but because she gets so much attention compared to characters like Koizumi or Tsuruya, who get no love... in addition, everyone, even Haruhi, who really never openly cared about anyone, loves Yuki.

TV Tropes has the following definition of Mary Sue:

Quote:
This character is as a black hole. Her gravity is so great, she draws all the attention and causes other characters (and, often, very reality) to bend and contort in order to accommodate her (often extinguishing all the light in the process). Characters don't act naturally around her. They instead serve as plot enablers for her. She dominates every scene she is in, with most scenes without her serving only to give the characters a chance to "talk freely" about her. Most people don't oppose her and anybody who does will either realize their fault in doing so or just prove easy to defeat.

The very laws of the universe bend to accommodate her. If there's only one in a million chance she could succeed at something, she'll accomplish it with flying colors. If the logical outcome of the story would end in her failure, a Deus Ex Machina (or just flat out asspull) will insure her victory. Nothing is too implausible for Mary to accomplish, whether it be going from Rags To Royalty, killing a cosmic horror, or bringing about world peace.

This is fairly blatant author favoritism in effect, with the author using his or her effective position as God of the story to carry the character through by her hands.
This fits both Haruhi and Yuki, but whereas Haruhi is, um, GOD, Yuki is not. Even with her powers, she has no reason for the attention she commands.

(Is anyone getting what I'm saying here?)
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Old 2008-09-20, 20:30   Link #1132
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The TV Tropes is incorrect on what a Mary Sue is actually.

A Mary Sue is an author insert character. It is bascially the author in the story having all things good (and bad) happen to them. It is actually a Star Trek fandom term from the 1970s.

This does not seem to fit Yuki. It fits Kyon and Haruhi more.
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Old 2008-09-20, 20:34   Link #1133
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The TV Tropes is incorrect on what a Mary Sue is actually.
The definition has changed... definitions do that.

And you're saying that TVTropes, which has terms defined by the fandom itself, is wrong? Ha.

What you're thinking of is Author Avatar.
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Old 2008-09-20, 20:44   Link #1134
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Well this is gonna be fun...
Quote:
This character is as a black hole. Her gravity is so great, she draws all the attention and causes other characters (and, often, very reality) to bend and contort in order to accommodate her (often extinguishing all the light in the process).
Except, Yuki never draws any attention unless something is seriously wrong, the story in question happens to actually be about her, or she just needs to get a point across. Normally she's, get this, IGNORED by everyone else...

Except the computer club guys, but they're nerds, and any girl who shows even the slightest interest in what they do is guaranteed to be showered with attention.

Quote:
Characters don't act naturally around her. They instead serve as plot enablers for her.
I'd say Mikuru is the only one who doesn't act naturally around her, but seeing as she's easily scared, her usual reaction to Yuki is her normal behavior.

Quote:
She dominates every scene she is in, with most scenes without her serving only to give the characters a chance to "talk freely" about her.
Repeat of the first point. Yuki's in nearly every scene and is basically treated as a piece of furniture most of the time. There's only one instance of the other characters making note of her absence, and that's because of the fact that something was wrong.

Quote:
Most people don't oppose her and anybody who does will either realize their fault in doing so or just prove easy to defeat.
Okay, you have me there... WAIT!! The Canopy Domain has proven to be quite a match for Yuki, and it's widely assumed that they're responsible for whatever happened to her in volume 9.

Quote:
The very laws of the universe bend to accommodate her. If there's only one in a million chance she could succeed at something, she'll accomplish it with flying colors.
This is the only legitimate argument, because Yuki actually is capable of bending the rules of the universe. As was explained in the very first novel, this is exactly what the IDSE and the Interfaces are capable of. However, they cannot break or rewrite them, which is something Haruhi can do.

Quote:
If the logical outcome of the story would end in her failure, a Deus Ex Machina (or just flat out asspull) will insure her victory. Nothing is too implausible for Mary to accomplish, whether it be going from Rags To Royalty, killing a cosmic horror, or bringing about world peace.
Disappearance could be considered a major failure for Yuki, as not only did she not succeed in her goal(because of Kyon, no less), but she also ended up on the IDSE's equivalent of probation as a result of attempting it.

Quote:
This is fairly blatant author favoritism in effect, with the author using his or her effective position as God of the story to carry the character through by her hands.
This is the most amusing part of this whole thing. Tanigawa actually realized how much attention Yuki was getting at one point, contemplated changing the title of the series to match this, and went against it as the story would be too narrow.
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Old 2008-09-20, 20:52   Link #1135
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Let's try this again, since you've torn up my argument and are really pissing me off the fuck off with your sarcasm.

Maybe using the term "Mary Sue" was a bad idea, given how much the term is used incorrectly.

What I mean is that Yuki, being an author favorite, gets entirely too much attention as a character, taking away time that could be spent developing, I don't know, the title character?

In addition, she's constantly the Deus Ex, solving everyone's problems constantly, making me wonder who this series is supposed to be about again. Yes, the author has acknowledged this. He's still doing it, even after he nerfed her powers to directly counteract this.

Probably the thing that bothers me the most is that she's the only person other than Kyon that Haruhi ever shows any kind of concern about, and it's so sudden... ever since Yuki fell sick in Snow Mountain Syndrome, Haruhi's been acting like a mother hen around her.

And it's just that since the cliffhanger of Vol. 9 is "LOLZ YUKI IS SICK AGAIN", I'm afraid that Tanigawa's going to twist it into another Yuki story again...
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Old 2008-09-21, 00:39   Link #1136
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Being the title character does not always mean you are the actual focus of the story. Sometimes you are the problem of the story. The modifier that everyone else to working to solve or correct. This is more or less Haruhi, the instigator of the majority of the problems or situation, or the main factor for other instigators to cause problems.

Kyon, is in every scene. He is technically the main character seen from a first person perspective. Mikuru, Itsuki, and Yuki are his supports in dealing with Haruhi or whatever is happened because or potentially to Haruhi.

Your beef is that Yuki gets too many of the stories over Haruhi is not the issue, since Haruhi is still the root of all their problems. Taking up time from Mikuru and Itsuki, that is a different problem. The basic answer is that Yuki is the easiest to write. And author will tend to go for what is easiest in a complex plot. It is easiest to get character development out of the character that is least human...because anything is a development.

Itsuki and Mikuru have there moments, but unless they are in "closed space" Itsuki has no powers aside from his brain and connections...which he does use in many of their situations.

Mikuru has her body, which she seems to be reluctant to use, and her time travel ability, which she does use from time to time. Other than that she doesn't have a purpose aside from "pleasing" Haruhi. This could be a trap, or it could be exactly that...she's there because it was her that went...a time loop so to speak.

Yuki has the "firepower" of the team and knowledge of different thing not Earth related. If the sutuation calls for Earth knowledge, Itsuki is likely to have the answer, including some pretty advanced theories. Mikuru is "mostly useless", but has her moments as well.

But at the basic level, it is Kyon's story about how they keep Haruhi safe, calm, entertained, and in the dark about her powers. All support members basically answer to Kyon when they aren't serving Haruhi's needs. Mikuru takes Kyon's time travel requests seriously (and gets confirmation from the future on the events she needs to perform). Itsuki "consults" Kyon on all happening and theories. Also seems to be Kyon's local intellegence network of Haruhi related happening. Yuki fuctionally responds to Kyon. She follows his orders, and not always Haruhi's until confirmed with Kyon. She also never calls him by any name, always in the second person. Kyon is their key to Haruhi..there random element. They must protect him.


In other news...why are we talking about this on the Merchandise thread? I didn't even realize this was the Merchandise thread until now.
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Old 2008-09-21, 00:41   Link #1137
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In other news...why are we talking about this on the Merchandise thread? I didn't even realize this was the Merchandise thread until now.
I don't know...

I think we all have a point, and should just leave it...
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Old 2008-09-21, 02:15   Link #1138
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Old 2008-09-21, 11:02   Link #1139
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Thanks for the heads up on that detail kenjiharima. My bad on not including that.

Thought that means that you can only have Kyon or Tanguchi and Tsuruya or Emiri, kind of takes away the bit about owning all the respective character's figmas. Though I agree that it would facilitate a faster 'release' as Orb01 mentioned.

I was planning on posing them, having them sit around the tea tray set from the Nagato Bad Witch ver. So now I'm going to be short a body for Emiri...unless I buy another TMOSH female figma or pray that MF/GSC releases them later on.
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Old 2008-09-21, 11:16   Link #1140
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Well if your planning to pose them like I do, I suggest if you got the budget get another Kyon and Tsuruya figure then you can have Tani,Kyon and Itsuki the 3 humanoids, Mikuru and Haruhi.

No imouto yet? Hmmm...they might as well release an adult figma Mikuru with imouto long with her since imouto is small.
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