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Old 2006-04-30, 15:08   Link #201
Freak Of Nature
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
Is that bigotry? oh. sorry, didn't mean it that way.

i guess i haven't read all that many hard sci-fi female authors.
Well, just to point out two: Ursula K. LeGuin and C.J. Cherryh are two of the best SF writers you'll find. And I think both of them would kick your arse if you suggested that they deserved extra credit for being successful SF writers, just because they were female.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
The only sci-fi author i've enjoyed are all the novels by Anna Mccaffrey love her books.
Yah, they're nice. I've actually met Anne McCaffrey, and she's a real sweetheart, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
But they don't have all those complicated theories and stuff, i just guess that the women who did know them just didn't think it was worth writing science fiction novels.
Hmm. There are plenty of "complicated theories and stuff" in LeGuin's and Cherryh's writings, and I think it's safe to say that Cherryh has created one of the most complex and psychologically deep future histories in all of SF.

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Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
Or it simply could be i haven't broden my reading range.
ピンポン!当たりを取りました!

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Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
either way, i apologize if i've offended anyone, by my careless remark.

No fuss, I just thought it seemed... well... clumsy of you. Out of character.

Never mind.
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Old 2006-04-30, 15:25   Link #202
PhantomX
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No one's offended ... he just overreacted a bit :\
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Old 2006-04-30, 15:49   Link #203
NeoSam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
I'm sure I read somewhere Tanigawa is a she, or was that Itou Noiji?
Tanigawa Nagaru (the author) is male.

Itou Noiji (the illustrator) is female.

Tanigawa Nagaru has worked on a lot of seinen novels.

His works can be seen here:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...8&postcount=83
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Old 2006-04-30, 18:27   Link #204
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Wow. episode six is going to another jump eh?

Its amazing, this time not even the baka-tsuki project has got that far

Total K.O for all of us non-nihongo readers!

bam-bam!
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Old 2006-04-30, 19:56   Link #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
...well thats why we have psieye


look how scary he is in the Onotology thread......
Ahahaha ^^;; A quick look at that Wikipedia entry suggests it's not too hard a concept to get my head around. I won't read Ch 6 until the anime has done it however, which I predict will be... Ep 8 so... 23 May? Umm... too close to my final exams for comfort that. Ok, make it after 5 June morning that I resume reading the Haruhi novels - meaning any Editing/Formatting I do will be restricted to Ch 1~5 until then. Unless someone does Vol 3 Ch 1 or Vol 2 of course ^^
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Old 2006-04-30, 22:36   Link #206
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the basic idea of anthropic principle is that the world was created precisely ideal for carbon-based organisms to evolve into advance beings.

"the world is created so that we are also created"

i think that's what it means? =X

that's why there's no way light bends, people able to float, or sudden regeneration or transformation, because that way it will cause chaos in the world and the theories/laws established will be pointless. That is, until humans accept it. Then the world will shift to that position, and we'll continue?

i have NO idea what i jsut said....?_?
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Old 2006-04-30, 22:50   Link #207
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er...light does bend.

Extreme gravitation objects will bend light, this is an observable effect.

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Old 2006-04-30, 23:52   Link #208
Shirobane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifestorm2
the basic idea of anthropic principle is that the world was created precisely ideal for carbon-based organisms to evolve into advance beings.

"the world is created so that we are also created"

i think that's what it means? =X

that's why there's no way light bends, people able to float, or sudden regeneration or transformation, because that way it will cause chaos in the world and the theories/laws established will be pointless. That is, until humans accept it. Then the world will shift to that position, and we'll continue?

i have NO idea what i jsut said....?_?
Except for light bending, you've about hit it right on the head.
But maybe a better way to look at it is "The world/universe exists because humans exist. If humans did not exist, then the world/universe as we know it would cease to exist."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
Extreme gravitation objects will bend light, this is an observable effect.
For example, black holes
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Old 2006-05-01, 00:08   Link #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
er...light does bend.

Extreme gravitation objects will bend light, this is an observable effect.

Alternate explanation: "Fool! Light does not bend, it's SPACE that bends due to extreme gravity and therefore to the casual observer it appears to bend!"

Take your pick on the explanation to explain the same phenomenon ^^

Quote:
"The world/universe exists because humans exist. If humans did not exist, then the world/universe as we know it would cease to exist."
Wouldn't that be 'wouldn't have developed into what it is now"? Your tenses don't add up in that sentence.
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Old 2006-05-01, 00:17   Link #210
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Originally Posted by Psieye
Wouldn't that be 'wouldn't have developed into what it is now"? Your tenses don't add up in that sentence.
lol sorry, was typing it up real fast. You're right, change "cease to exist" with "never have existed"

Nice little truism paradox, that ultimately ends up being a bit hard to explain.
The wiki article does it a way better job of it than I can
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Old 2006-05-01, 08:07   Link #211
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Volume 1 Chapter 6 translation completed.

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...lume1_Chapter6

Spoiler for vol1 ch6:
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Old 2006-05-01, 08:41   Link #212
kari-no-sugata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifestorm2
the basic idea of anthropic principle is that the world was created precisely ideal for carbon-based organisms to evolve into advance beings.

"the world is created so that we are also created"

i think that's what it means? =X
Hmm. I don't think that principle stands up too well against certain things. For example, "complex" cells didn't occur for about 2 billion years (simple cells formed very soon after the Earth settled down 4.5 billion years ago), and only ever evolved once (or at least, there's no indication that it happened more than once). Basically, if that 1 in 4.5 billion year event had never happened, Earth would only be populated by bacteria and similar.

Why? Basically, bacteria have no real advantage to being big, so they stay small (mostly 1000-10000x smaller than the typical complex cell, like cells in your own body). Bacteria don't compete by killing off competitors, rather they compete by out-breeding them - the faster they can divide, the faster the population can grow. Being smaller makes it easier to divide faster - copying the DNA is a particular bottleneck. For the most part, bacteria actually aren't agressive, and they certainly can't eat each other. Bacteria are so keen to streamline themselves that they quickly throw away "unused" DNA very quickly. Of course, they can't be too agressive about that because they still need some minimal complexity to adapt to changing conditions.

So why are "complex" (Eukaryotic) cells different? Eukaryotic means a cell with a "true" nucleus. However, it seems more likely that the true differentiation is mitochondria (scientists are still arguing about such things). Mitochondria are often refered to as "power plants" within cells, but they have their own DNA. The thing with power/energy generation within cells is that it occurs across a membrane (in a mind-bogglingly complex and weird way).

In bacteria, that membrane is part of the cell wall - ie is proportional to surface area. However, energy needs are proportional to volume. Volume increases faster than surface area, meaning that the energy needs of a cell rise faster than the rate at which it can be produced. So essentially, bigger bacterial cells are "starved" - and can't breed so quickly. So bacteria have to stay small or die out.

Eukaryotic cells have many mitochondria within them - the bigger the cell, the more mitochondria. So power generation scales with volume, which enables the development of more complex cells. Without the development of cells with mitochondria, no complex life forms would ever have developed on Earth, and that development only ever happened once - about 2 billion years ago. Exactly how it happened is the subject of intense debate, but it's generally reckoned to be because two different types of cells merged together - one of which ended up becoming mitochondria. It's almost certainly impossible that a bacteria like cell can evolve into a cell with mitochondria by DNA mutations - they've had over 4 billion years to try, and have never succeeded.

Because the formation of complex cells was so unlikely, there's no gurantee that complex life will always evolve on a planet with very similar conditions to Earth.


Quote:
that's why there's no way light bends, people able to float, or sudden regeneration or transformation, because that way it will cause chaos in the world and the theories/laws established will be pointless. That is, until humans accept it. Then the world will shift to that position, and we'll continue?

i have NO idea what i jsut said....?_?
Heh.

Actually, from what I vaguely remember reading, light isn't quaranteed to move in a straight line even in a perfectly normal vacuum. Or travel at "light speed". It's just an average, basically. Yup, quantum physics is pretty darn weird...
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Old 2006-05-01, 08:56   Link #213
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
Hmm. I don't think that principle stands up too well against certain things. For example, "complex" cells didn't occur for about 2 billion years (simple cells formed very soon after the Earth settled down 4.5 billion years ago), and only ever evolved once (or at least, there's no indication that it happened more than once). Basically, if that 1 in 4.5 billion year event had never happened, Earth would only be populated by bacteria and similar.

Why? Basically, bacteria have no real advantage to being big, so they stay small (mostly 1000-10000x smaller than the typical complex cell, like cells in your own body). Bacteria don't compete by killing off competitors, rather they compete by out-breeding them - the faster they can divide, the faster the population can grow. Being smaller makes it easier to divide faster - copying the DNA is a particular bottleneck. For the most part, bacteria actually aren't agressive, and they certainly can't eat each other. Bacteria are so keen to streamline themselves that they quickly throw away "unused" DNA very quickly. Of course, they can't be too agressive about that because they still need some minimal complexity to adapt to changing conditions.

So why are "complex" (Eukaryotic) cells different? Eukaryotic means a cell with a "true" nucleus. However, it seems more likely that the true differentiation is mitochondria (scientists are still arguing about such things). Mitochondria are often refered to as "power plants" within cells, but they have their own DNA. The thing with power/energy generation within cells is that it occurs across a membrane (in a mind-bogglingly complex and weird way).

In bacteria, that membrane is part of the cell wall - ie is proportional to surface area. However, energy needs are proportional to volume. Volume increases faster than surface area, meaning that the energy needs of a cell rise faster than the rate at which it can be produced. So essentially, bigger bacterial cells are "starved" - and can't breed so quickly. So bacteria have to stay small or die out.

Eukaryotic cells have many mitochondria within them - the bigger the cell, the more mitochondria. So power generation scales with volume, which enables the development of more complex cells. Without the development of cells with mitochondria, no complex life forms would ever have developed on Earth, and that development only ever happened once - about 2 billion years ago. Exactly how it happened is the subject of intense debate, but it's generally reckoned to be because two different types of cells merged together - one of which ended up becoming mitochondria. It's almost certainly impossible that a bacteria like cell can evolve into a cell with mitochondria by DNA mutations - they've had over 4 billion years to try, and have never succeeded.

Because the formation of complex cells was so unlikely, there's no gurantee that complex life will always evolve on a planet with very similar conditions to Earth.




Heh.

Actually, from what I vaguely remember reading, light isn't quaranteed to move in a straight line even in a perfectly normal vacuum. Or travel at "light speed". It's just an average, basically. Yup, quantum physics is pretty darn weird...
Wow, that sure is some knowledge, but I suggest this be moved to the "Ontology of Suzumiya Haruhi" thread, this thread concerns itself with the translations only.

I tend to view the SF jargon as part of the humour of the story and try not to think too much about it, because it wasn't supposed to make sense for either Kyon as the narrator or us as the reader.
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Old 2006-05-01, 10:07   Link #214
Shirobane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
Volume 1 Chapter 6 translation completed.

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...lume1_Chapter6

Spoiler for vol1 ch6:
Thanks for the translations!
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-05-01, 10:27   Link #215
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Now holding discussion, on certain terms in chapter 06.
To be standardlized for future chapters

Spoiler:


Please add your input on the Format Guideline Talk page
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Old 2006-05-01, 12:26   Link #216
kari-no-sugata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
Wow, that sure is some knowledge, but I suggest this be moved to the "Ontology of Suzumiya Haruhi" thread, this thread concerns itself with the translations only.
Maybe I should start reading that thread

I was going to comment on some of the other terms used in the story, but my post was already pretty long as it is. One interesting debate in science is whether physical "constants" really have been constant since the Big Bang - one theory I read is that with each Big Bang (after things collapse down to a point again), the physical constants may change, and that perhaps they're tending towards a point of stability which result in many black holes forming - that it's also suitable for life is perhaps an interesting side-effect. With the constants as they are, it would generally take about 10 billion years for earth-like planets to become possible (or at least, not increadibly rare). So if it would typically take about 4 billion years for intelligent life to develop on earth-like planets, then it would take about 14 billion years for the universe to develop life complex enough to understand it - which is about the current age of the universe.

When you read things like this, I can rather understand what Koizumi means by the complex things the other people in his group think about...


Quote:
I tend to view the SF jargon as part of the humour of the story and try not to think too much about it, because it wasn't supposed to make sense for either Kyon as the narrator or us as the reader.
Certainly from a translation point of view, perhaps the best thing would be to link to Wikipedia articles as appropriate. Though some real physics terms are being used as well.

It seems that all necessary terms are at least somewhat explained anyway...
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Old 2006-05-01, 12:47   Link #217
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
Certainly from a translation point of view, perhaps the best thing would be to link to Wikipedia articles as appropriate. Though some real physics terms are being used as well.

It seems that all necessary terms are at least somewhat explained anyway...
those are good suggestion.

Come by the project website to drop your idea in, we take all ideas of improvements seriously.

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Old 2006-05-01, 12:57   Link #218
kari-no-sugata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
Now holding discussion, on certain terms in chapter 06.
To be standardlized for future chapters

Spoiler:


Please add your input on the Format Guideline Talk page
I've added my thoughts on "Shinjin" and "Heisa Kuukan" to the page. Maybe I'll register a name if I'm going to do this more often...
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Old 2006-05-01, 17:23   Link #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
I've added my thoughts on "Shinjin" and "Heisa Kuukan" to the page. Maybe I'll register a name if I'm going to do this more often...
please do. the more the merrier.
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Old 2006-05-01, 17:42   Link #220
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