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Old 2007-10-18, 22:57   Link #1141
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent86 View Post
Spoiler for what the a and b parts signify:
Spoiler for A bit of speculation:
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Old 2007-10-21, 22:45   Link #1142
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Spoiler for vol 9:
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Old 2007-10-24, 01:50   Link #1143
Sol Falling
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Anyone else find the lack of an author's note in Volume 9 jarring? Of course there's a huge cliffhanger the likes of which we've never seen between the other novels. I just kinda wished there were some kind of relaxing note at the end about the author's thoughts to ground the story in real life. I actually find the author's notes contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the individual stories and novels as a whole.
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Old 2007-12-13, 20:20   Link #1144
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i went on the website and i was wondering if we somehow could dl them in a *.txt type or something like that ???
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Old 2007-12-13, 22:36   Link #1145
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Anyone else find the lack of an author's note in Volume 9 jarring? Of course there's a huge cliffhanger the likes of which we've never seen between the other novels. I just kinda wished there were some kind of relaxing note at the end about the author's thoughts to ground the story in real life. I actually find the author's notes contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the individual stories and novels as a whole.
I have this theory that Volumes 9 and 10 were originally conceived as one book, but the publishers convinced him that it was too long and so he split it up.

And then it got delayed for whatever reason.

Probably to time the launch with that of the anime.
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Old 2007-12-14, 02:25   Link #1146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
Spoiler for vol 9:
Spoiler for book 9:
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Old 2007-12-14, 14:39   Link #1147
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedd View Post
Spoiler for book 9:
Spoiler for vol 9 split:
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Old 2007-12-24, 07:38   Link #1148
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I was just wondering; how would anybody view a further rewriting of the english translation into something that is... a more familiar novel format for english readers? It's not that the translation is bad, it's that the writing style feels... very odd to me, and I'd like to see if I can tinker with it a bit and see if I can make it more accessible, while still feeling... very Kyon.
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Old 2007-12-24, 14:22   Link #1149
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I was just wondering; how would anybody view a further rewriting of the english translation into something that is... a more familiar novel format for english readers? It's not that the translation is bad, it's that the writing style feels... very odd to me, and I'd like to see if I can tinker with it a bit and see if I can make it more accessible, while still feeling... very Kyon.
It's just the way Kyon writes. He's intentionally ambiguous with a lot of stuff.
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Old 2007-12-24, 18:17   Link #1150
Jintor
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I get the feeling it's more the Japanese Writing Style clashing badly with Western Expectations of what a novel should be like.
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Old 2007-12-24, 20:29   Link #1151
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I get the feeling it's more the Japanese Writing Style clashing badly with Western Expectations of what a novel should be like.
But is that any reason to change it?
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Old 2007-12-24, 22:24   Link #1152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
But is that any reason to change it?
In a word, no.
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Old 2007-12-25, 00:11   Link #1153
Jintor
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But is that any reason to change it?
Fun and profit.
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Old 2007-12-25, 00:21   Link #1154
panzerfan
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It wouldn't be fun for the novels to become so annotation-laden for you would it? The approach of annotation is another that is taken in translating foreign language text into English... as with The Art of War for example. As such, I can understand the sentiments involved with trying to provide a more localized mindset regarding Haruhi series.

Having said that, I actually hold to the opinion that the concept of 'what a novel should be' here may only apply in the context of American-school of thought regarding using English in a utilitarian way. A rewording of the novel in that format to me is rather dangerous as it serves to compromise the thought pattern of Kyon, who tends to think in complex sentences that heavily allude to his understandings of the Japanese perspective of humanities. I do not think that his thought pattern is made for ease of understanding to others, nor should it be...

In short, one would not be 'reading' the same Kyon by seeing a rewording of the novels.

@Kaisos Erranon: Except that he has an understanding of world literature which is rare for high school students... his western equivalence in cultural references would be to try getting a grade 10 student to nonchalantly cite from Mark Twain, Francis Drake and making references of say Treaty of Westphalia!
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2007-12-25 at 02:19.
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Old 2007-12-25, 01:57   Link #1155
Jintor
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Well, as far as I've gotten so far it seems just to be re-editing what's already been translated, as opposed to actually further making it into a more english novel. I'll submit it as an 'edit' to the Baka-Tsuki translation group and see what they think of it.

/EDIT While I'm here, what does everybody think of the accuracy of the Baka-Tsuki translation and of Strato's translations? Did they convey the ideas in the best possible manner? Will people reading only the english get the best possible idea of what the heck is going on?
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Old 2007-12-25, 02:11   Link #1156
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Well, as far as I've gotten so far it seems just to be re-editing what's already been translated, as opposed to actually further making it into a more english novel. I'll submit it as an 'edit' to the Baka-Tsuki translation group and see what they think of it.

/EDIT While I'm here, what does everybody think of the accuracy of the Baka-Tsuki translation and of Strato's translations? Did they convey the ideas in the best possible manner? Will people reading only the english get the best possible idea of what the heck is going on?
I think it's pretty accurate, yeah. Remember, Kyon's a simple person, at heart. He doesn't tend to use obscure puns and wordplays that make Japanese hell to translate.

Strato's isn't bad either. He just uses a different translation for some things, from what I've seen.
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Old 2007-12-25, 05:35   Link #1157
Sol Falling
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mm, I enjoy baka-tsuki's translation and appreciate it very much, but I must admit that it feels somewhat unpolished and incomplete. I think, although the wiki format allows for speed and accuracy due to collaboration between public and regular translators/editors, there is also very little motivation to go back and fix issues after the translation has been out for a while, given that most of the audience has already read it. So the result is some very obvious difficult spots, where the meaning is unclear, and which although somewhat clarified by discussion on the talk pages, remains incomprehensible because that discussion did not conclude before the team had moved onto the next chapter/volume/project/etc.

A second issue is the grammar and sentence structure. Actually I think a lot of readers who are somewhat anal about that stuff like myself have been distressed by this aspect of the translations. The only problem is that the novels are just too large for someone to go through by themselves just to satisfy an obsessive compulsion (from my perspective, though I think most of the other anonymous editors began and stopped editing with the same feelings). From this perspective, I would wholly encourage anybody who were looking to implement an editing initiative by guaranteeing that they would be appreciated by someone and have an audience (if only myself).

@panzerfan:

On your points about the communicative aspects of language (i.e. utility) versus the mnemonic (functioning as a record of Kyon's thought process, as you put it). Although I can understand the implementation behind what you're suggesting (as in, preservation of the order of subjects, objects, predicates, descriptive clauses, etc. so that ideas are developed the same way), are we certain that this is something the baka-tsuki translators are actually doing? Also, I don't think that ideal is necessarily at odds with conciseness or density, which is my main issue with the sentence structure in the translation. I suppose that might still fall under "utility" (actually I'm not very familiar with the "American school of thought" regarding utility, so that's why I'm asking), though, so maybe I'm reading you wrong.
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Old 2007-12-25, 06:18   Link #1158
panzerfan
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No, actually I agree with you... having done some chapters of translation myself, I am aware of how each translator takes the issue of utility differently and it shows in Baka-Tsuki's model. As a result, there exists a degree of variation regarding the use of ... say honorifics actually. The Chinese translation of Suzumiya Haruhi novels have do without the honorifics, and the translators working from that might also choose the same route, for example.
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Old 2007-12-25, 07:15   Link #1159
FatPianoBoy
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Sentence structure and grammar falls under editing and general cleanup, of which there is a considerable amount waiting to be done. Jintor seems to be suggesting a complete retranslation and applying naturalization to make it more "accessible" to westerners.
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Old 2007-12-25, 07:41   Link #1160
Jintor
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I've stopped that now when I realised that trying for that would remove quite a lot of wordplay and Kyon's worldview. I'm just re-editing now in terms of sentence structure and grammar now, attempting to make it feel more... natural? Not sure how to put it. I'll stick up the re-edited prologue and first chapter and see what you guys think of it.

/EDIT Basically, ignore all that crap about naturalisation, I'm just editing what's been translated now.

/EDITEDIT Here's what I've managed to edit so far.

http://lumbargo.googlepages.com/them...suzumiyaharuhi

The edits are mainly minor, but I think it moves a little more naturally now.

Last edited by Jintor; 2007-12-25 at 08:54.
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