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Old 2006-05-23, 21:05   Link #61
Tofusensei
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Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainy


I second this. If the founder of a fansub group doesn't have some essential skills like translating, timing or encoding, etc, then the group is likely to have a short lifespan.
If history shows us anything, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

-Tofu
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Old 2006-05-23, 21:55   Link #62
runpsicat
Engrishator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh
not sure if theres one for encoders or editors anymore. and translators is a private channel ^^.
Actually, a public translation resource channel does exist on Rizon (#translators@irc.rizon.net).
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Old 2006-05-24, 01:50   Link #63
Maceart
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True, but whipping one of them into a frenzy to help you translate something is close next to impossible with them throwing out unicode text that you can't understand.

You'll need at least someone who can put english words down to an anime episode script in order for your group to survive.
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Old 2006-05-24, 02:29   Link #64
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainy
I second this. If the founder of a fansub group doesn't have some essential skills like translating, timing or encoding, etc, then the group is likely to have a short lifespan.
This is very much true, but I'd rather say that if the translator doesn't have the leading position in a group or is the founder of it. Timers and encoders aren't "essentials". Since the basics of them are quite easy to learn and do, even the translator could do them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
True, but whipping one of them into a frenzy to help you translate something is close next to impossible with them throwing out unicode text that you can't understand.
rofl, now it's Unicode that's preventing you from getting advice? Try x-chat (command: /charset utf-8 or if it's not "unicode" /charset sjis). Even mIRC has put out 6.16+ versions with hacked UTF-8 support. That is no excuse, mister.


OK, now onto some concrete advice. When I started fansubbing, I basically just wanted to fansub (to get that distro access :P), so, I asked myself the following:

What skills do I have?

Sub questions:

-Can I translate? Do I know Japanese? (requirements for translating)
-Do I know enough English to be an editor? Am I a native speaker? (requirements for editing)
-Do I know how to script? Do I know how to program anything? (pre-requirements for typesetting and encoding)
-Could I spot errors as a Quality Checker? Do I have enough overall skill as a fansubber?
-Can I click a mouse button and have a clear hearing? (timing)
-Do I watch lots of anime?


I can answer a few of those for complete newbies:

You definitely don't have enough overall skill as a fansubber, so you can't be a quality checker. Also, even if you know the feeling of scripting and programming, you don't know the scripting languages yet which are required for typesetting and encoding. You need to learn those first (Advanced SubStation and AviSynth).

Basically, every newbie is now down to editing, timing and translating.

If you're an English native speaker and if you love the language and like expressing yourself with it, possibly have some sort of degree from English, then editing is the right choice for you. Being a native speaker is a requirement IMO.

Timing is probably the easiest choice since for basic operations all you need to learn is one of the easy timing programs (Sabbu, Medusa, Aegisub, Substation Alpha) and how to save a WAV from a video using VirtualDub. Timing is also a prerequisite to typesetting. There is currently a shortage of timers in some groups, and I can understand that, since it's the most monotone of all the fansubbing jobs, so you won't have to look much to find a group that needs timers.

If you know the language of media content origin, the Japanese, then you're a rare case of people who won't have problems finding a group to join. Groups will train you how to write translation script files. Basically, to most groups, you'll be a gift sent from the gods.


Basically, if you have no skills and you don't want to learn much to begin fansubbing, then I'd definitely recommend timing for starting.
If you're an English native speaker, editing is the first thing you should be thinking of when considering what you can do.

Also note: DON'T START A NEW FANSUBBING GROUP AS YOUR ENTRY POINT TO FANSUBBING. THAT SCENARIO HAS A FRIGHTENING ENDING 100% OF THE TIME!
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Old 2006-05-24, 03:38   Link #65
Quarkboy
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I formed my own group (with a partner) almost exactly one year ago (the domain was registered about 13 months ago), and I'm proud to announce our _100th_ release is Yume Tsukai episode 4 (not counting dual format releases).

Here are some lessons I learned in the process:

1. Don't form a group alone. If you have no other people with you at the start, it's game over. 2 is minimum, more is better.
2. Establish a leadership structure quickly. New groups with no one making decisions are doomed.
3. Make sure you have some experienced people in fansubbing. A group a complete newbs might survive, but you'll end up with a stigma of "newb crap group" for a long time, even if you get better. So make those first releases count.
4. Don't have ONLY veterens or people "helping out" from other groups. This also spells doom as these are people who are not loyal to your new group, and frankly could care less if it failed. Veterens can be hard to deal with, especially when they start fighting each other .
5. Choose your anime wisely. Don't fansub something that you can't do well. Don't fansub something when you can't do a better and faster job than someone else (it only hurts moral to consistantly release shows that others have subbed faster AND better than you.) Don't fansub something that the majority of your staff dislikes (or any of them, if possible). Don't fansub out of spite or to get back at some person or group.

RULE NUMBER 0: DO NOT TAKE MORE PROJECTS THAN YOU CAN HANDLE. This is the most crucial and dooming rule. How many countless groups start, flare up, claim they are doing 6 shows, fansub 1 ep of 3 of them, and the disappear.
Have any new translator work on NO MORE THAN 1 show at a time. If you do not have most of te staff needed for a show, then don't start it. If you REALLY want to take on more projects, consider jointing with other groups. It is often beneficial to everyone involved, and is a great way to get to know othre people in the fansubbing world.

Here's a good rule of thumb: If you are just starting out, fansub ONLY one show until you've released at least 5 eps of that show. After 5 you can optionally add another project. Do NOT start a 3rd until one of those two has had 13 eps released. Once you've released 26 total episodes I'd say your stable enough to do as you please. Take on more than this, and you risk complete breakdown.

Let's analyze this a bit: Why can't new groups take on 5 projects at once? Say they have 3 traslators two of which want to do 2 shows, 3 timers, 2 typesettors and maybe 3 editors and a handful of qcers. It's a bounty of new, gung ho people. Seems like plenty to take on 5 shows, right? The truth is, new groups and new members are X factors... you've never worked together before, you don't really know all these people (unless you happen to be RL friends), and you don't know if they'll keep their promises or have as much time always as they do now. Estimate that 50% or more of your initial "staff" will disappear or become useless in the first month or two. Say both of your typesetters go AWOL, 2 of your translators ditch, and you only have 1 timer left. Now you can barely release one series regularly, but you remaining editors wanted to work on the other projects which now have no translators, so they quit. With no releases, your channel sucks, with no channel, you have no decent distro, etc... etc...

So you see that there is one thing, and one thing only that determines if a new group survives: Releases.

I say this: If you release it, they will come.

"They" refers to 1. staff 2. distro 3. leechers 4. fame and fortune? Well, maybe not 4.

I should add a corrolary:

If you release crap, they will come and complain.


Here are some more specific things:

1. Learn to time. Sometimes, things just gotta be timed. And sometimes, you'll need to do it yourself. Just learn it.
2. Learn a little bit about everything. You need to sound marginally intelligent when complaining to your staff about their work, which probably will happen. If you yell at your encoder because "there's this colorful shimmering around the logo" you'll just get laughed at.
3. Learn how to handle difficult staff members. Not everyone good is nice. Sometimes people might be really useful, but really dangerous. Don't piss people off unneccesarily.
4. Dead weight should be pruned. If someone consistently does a poor job (and doesn't correct mistakes after they've been pointed out multiple times), consistantly fails to do his/her job when they said they would, or simply never shows up, replace them. Obviously, more slack should be given to long time members .
5. Communicate. Communication is key. Talk to everyone who is active often. Check up on progress, or simply chat. Be a real GROUP, not just some people who fansub. This can be done on IRC or over IM, even email of LJ can work for this. But a group that doesn't talk to each other is doomed to fail.
6. Don't do everything yourself. If you start doing everything yourself, you're just giving everyone else an excuse to leave. I myself have this problem. Oh well...


Anyway, this post is very long, I hope you found it interesting. Come see me at Anime Boston this weekend and look for the Manga Librarian (that's me!).
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Old 2006-05-24, 08:29   Link #66
CelesAurivern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy
5. Choose your anime wisely. Don't fansub something that you can't do well. Don't fansub something when you can't do a better and faster job than someone else (it only hurts moral to consistantly release shows that others have subbed faster AND better than you.)
A well written life experience there

Too add on the above point, I'd suggest picking a decent show that no one else is doing.
Mature themed animes tend to get overlooked by many groups, and those are good to start with, if you are capable of handling them.
The mature audience is typically patient and supportive, which is good for group morale.


Remember, if you serve rubbish, flies will come. If you serve honey, bees will come.
I've served both, so I know
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Old 2006-05-24, 08:42   Link #67
getfresh
done
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Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelesAurivern
Remember, if you serve rubbish, flies will come. If you serve honey, bees will come.
I've served both, so I know
Too me all that really matters is that you try your best...

Release speed or beating the next guy fails to matter if you live by the basis of subbing because you are a fan. The new mentality of being faster and more eyecatching has actually downgraded the scene quite a bit.

And no matter what you serve leechers come... The general concensus is whatever's faster is better >.>
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Old 2006-05-24, 10:14   Link #68
Dnous
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Actually the easiest position in a group is a raw supplier. You just dl raws compare and upload teh best. Easiest thing to do, but you need a decent upload for it.
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Old 2006-05-24, 12:18   Link #69
gumbaloom
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Timing is easier than raw supplier.

Timing doesnt require knowledge of japanese / how to play with Japanaese peer 2 peer

-gumbaloom
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Old 2006-05-24, 12:42   Link #70
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbaloom
Timing doesnt require knowledge of japanese
Well, actually, most timers have some (very) basic knowledge at least. Makes it much easier to hear where one sentence ends and the next begins.
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01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2006-05-24, 12:50   Link #71
iluid
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Iím not sure if timing is easier, you can get pretty far with Share without knowing much Japanese at all. Timing is definitely in more demand though. A lot of translators and encoders provide their own raws these days, and a lot of smaller groups just grab raws off BT. While some groups certainly benefit from having dedicated raw providers, itís just not as important of a role as it once was since it has become so easy to get raws.
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Old 2006-05-24, 13:20   Link #72
tritoch
 
 
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hmm. I want to be an editor. Anyone hiring?
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Old 2006-05-24, 13:37   Link #73
Sylf
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Go check the "help wanted" thread.

In my book, you already failed as an editor. If you're applying for an editor position, make a post in proper English.
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Old 2006-05-24, 13:57   Link #74
tritoch
 
 
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heh. I was being sarcastic.
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Old 2006-05-24, 15:54   Link #75
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dnous
Actually the easiest position in a group is a raw supplier. You just dl raws compare and upload teh best. Easiest thing to do, but you need a decent upload for it.
Raw providing is still a fansubbing job? <_<; It's the encoder who should pick out the raws. But if you insist, then I guess you either have a crappy raw provider on your hands or raw providing is not the easiest fansubbing job out there, if raw providing includes comparing raws on their picture quality etc.
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Old 2006-05-24, 16:41   Link #76
tritoch
 
 
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also, finding RAWS is hard and dling them is sometimes a pain with all the rules some RAW providers are regulating (for example, DB doesn't want to check azureus decentralize tracking; or sometimes, you must only connect to a limited amount of peers or else its a ban)
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Old 2006-05-24, 16:51   Link #77
exedore
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbaloom
Timing is easier than raw supplier.

Timing doesnt require knowledge of japanese / how to play with Japanaese peer 2 peer
I'd debate that for people doing old school anime.

Why?

Because it's pretty bloody easy to go to CDJapan and buy DVDs through the English interface. =)

/taught the group timer in about 45 min.....still pretty damn easy of a job.
//helped that they knew each other IRL
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Old 2006-05-24, 23:50   Link #78
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy
4. Dead weight should be pruned. If someone consistently does a poor job (and doesn't correct mistakes after they've been pointed out multiple times), consistantly fails to do his/her job when they said they would, or simply never shows up, replace them. Obviously, more slack should be given to long time members .
Yes and no. Sometimes it is hard or impossible to replace a certain person and getting rid of them will only cause the project to stall indefinately (esp. in the case that a project is not very popular). Or have worse consequences. Or not be possible at all, not within the way the group is run or structured. Or have even more dire consequences for the group, if that's a popular person or someone who is well-liked regardless of their ability, effort, or such.

If there is a failure or holdup, it is important to analyze the failure and try to solve it. Most decisions can be made in a mutually agreeable way. Except in the case where someone disappears and simply cannot be replaced. But in many cases, even disappearing is justified (ie. with Katrina) and the situation will sometimes resolve itself. The best action may be no action, simply be patient and wait.

Another point mentioned was about learning to deal with difficult people. Too often groups are willing to go head-over-heals for someone and IMO it's not worth the headaches that person will cause down the line. Things like territorial issues (someone who doesn't work on a specific project but wants to have a say in how it is done) are the worst. I know we leave it up to the specific project group whether to heed the advice of the astrologer and feng shui master when determining the date and time to release a finished work. It took some time to find experts who were competent and dedicated yet understood their advice may be ignored. Likewise, whether or not anyone wants to work with the pig is up to them (though the pig is quite popular, he gets to pretty much work with whoever he wants except for one member with allergies and another with phobia of small furry animals).

It's important to be candid with people who join the group about what they can expect, what others might expect of them, etc.
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Old 2006-05-25, 02:27   Link #79
ladholyman
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Wait, you shouldn't translate more than one show at a time? Oh crap.
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Old 2006-05-25, 11:02   Link #80
getfresh
done
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runpsicat
Actually, a public translation resource channel does exist on Rizon (#translators@irc.rizon.net).
It use to be private way back when didn't know you guys made it public now ;p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dnous
Actually the easiest position in a group is a raw supplier. You just dl raws compare and upload teh best. Easiest thing to do, but you need a decent upload for it.
no easiest is distro lol requires a connection of good speed thats it. And hate to tell you about raw providers, but groups don't use that position anymore. People with normal positions do it normally, dedicated raw providers are a thing of the past.
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