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Old 2006-04-22, 17:01   Link #1
OutPhase
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Anime and Cartoons: Technically speaking, there is no difference

I am going to have my ass kicked for making this thread, so at least hear me out and then burn effegies of me.


For a while now, it seems to be that people are becoming more obsessed with saying "anime is different and not the same as cartoons". However, we only label it that way, but really, they're both they same exact thing aside from the language the word is spoken. "Anime" mean animation (ex. cartoons) in English and vice versa. When you say "anime", you could be reffering to all form of animation, but noooo. You think the definition of the word derives from the language the word is spoken. Also, even by separating it as different from American animation, it's still wrong. Anime is not just a Japanese word meaning animation, but it's also a French word (but with an above the "e" that I cannot do on a Dell computer). Actually, the word "anime" derives from French, like how "garage" has no English equivalent, as well as grabage and karaoke. They don't make a new word for it in a different language, so it stays the same universally (or in some/most places).

To me, the word "anime" being used strictly for Japanese animation is kind of ignorant and it's definitely incorrect, and pose that one day, we, the fans of this form of animation made in Japan (but now animated in Korea) should be changed back to Ol' Timey Japanimation! The pluses include:

1. You sound smarter saying "Japanimation" instead of "anime".
2. It cannot be debated to describe all forms of animation since it clearly says "Japan" in the word.
3. It sounds pretty cool, but that's just my opinion. Japanimation. Hear it uttered and behold it's five-syllabled majesty.
4. It helps you reminisce about the good ol' days when Japanimation had thigns called "water-coloring" and "writing" and "originality" and "not being popular solely on shallow badly-animated yuri/yaoi and sex scenes".
5. You can if you so like call it "Niponimation" or "Niponime" and quite possibly "Nipanime" and "Nipanimation". Hell, "Japanime" is pretty good to (and there you have an original name for your daughter). "Congratulations on you little daughter Japanime, Dave!"

I don't care what you guys think, but I'm going to refer to "anime" as "Japanese animation" or "Japanimation", or just plainly "cartoon" since that's all it is more-or-less, but made in Japan.

Discuss.
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Old 2006-04-22, 17:30   Link #2
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Well, a word is only useful if people agree on its definition. In Japan, "anime" refers to all animation - you'll find Disney stuff listed along side Studio Ghibli, etc. In English, the general consensus recognizes "anime" (animé, if you want the accent) as a subset of "animation" that refers specifically to those produced in Japan (since it's the word Japan uses for "animation"). Consensus also has expectations about what a "cartoon" is, and that it's different from "anime", though still "animation". Since the purpose of using words is so that people know what you're talking about (and can more easily categorize things), you might as well just use the words that most people already agree to. What's the point in using a different word if people will just say "you mean anime?" Just so you can be "technically right?" I don't really see the point.
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Old 2006-04-22, 17:33   Link #3
MrProphet
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It depends on your point of view.

Japanese people refer to all animation, regardless of the origin, as anime. "Anime" is just a shortened form of the English word "animation" for them, not a separate term. It's not derived from French, by the way.

Others refer to "anime" as specifically "Japanese form of animation". It has nothing to do with the Japanese word, and is now a separate English word with a different meaning.

This is quite common in linguistics. A popular foreign word enters another language with a meaning vastly different from the original. For example: German "Die Arbeit" means "work". It has entered Japanese language as "arubaito", or simply "baito", meaning "part-time work". But you wouldn't say that "baito" is any kind of a job, it is only used for a "part-time job". Same with "anime". In the English language, this neologism means specifically "Japanese animation", nonwithstanding the original Japanese meaning of "any kind of animation".

And for the record, "Japanimation" does not sound "smarter". I am sorry, but it only makes a person uttering it sound silly.
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Old 2006-04-22, 17:36   Link #4
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Anime in japanese DOES NOT come from the french word. This is a common misconception. Anime is a shortened for of animeshon(アニメション), which is derived from the english word animation, much the same way persocom is a shortened form of personal computer.

It's true the japanese usage of the word applies to all forms of animation, regardless of national origin. However, the word anime made it's way back across the pacific in a shortened form, and has changed to mean animation from japan. Thus, it is not incorrect to call animation from Japan anime in english. I would contend that the term anime has become an english word meaning animation from japan.

edit: Gah beaten because of a phone call...
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Old 2006-04-22, 17:59   Link #5
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anime is the acceptable definition for japanamation. While in actual textbook definiton, it may be incorrect, it has gained a common definiton on its own. Japanamation is just a lazy made up compund word. While it may sound "cool" it is not always relevant since not all anime is made in Japan. So this is just as irrevelant as calling cartoons like south park or family guy americanation. If you acknowledge animes use, you understand well how it is and will be used.
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:03   Link #6
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Japanimation? I've only ever heard it called that in a Simpson's episode. I thought they were taking the p@*£.
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:08   Link #7
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also i did a search on the term japanimation, and i found that most sites that have it arent even in english. So its not even an english term commonly used, i believe the french sites used that though...
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:13   Link #8
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Language isn't static, it develops by use and it's always changing. Today's grammar rules are tomorrow's Shakespeare.

Grammar, dictionary meaning and mother-tongue be dammned, words mean only what people use and understand them to mean.

If we were speaking Japanese, then yes anime = cartoon. But we're not... we're speaking english. Logically speaking, we didn't need to appropriate a foreign word to define something we already have a word for ("animation")... we didn't, however, have a word for Japanese animation in particular. So we've appropriated "anime" to mean "Japanese animation".

Granted, it doesn't mean the same thing in english as it does in Japanese... but neither does "wanpiisu" (dress) make any sense to English-speakers in spite of it's english origin.

Like it or not, english has misappropriated the word, for better or worse. Once it hits the dictionary, it's the point of no return.

"an·i·me ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-m)
n.
A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sex"

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Yes, that definition is ridiculously short-sighted and stereotypical... but it's there ^^; The other dictionaries, if they see fit to include anime at all, have similar definitions.

Either way, it's splitting hairs over something that really doesn't make a lick of a difference. You know what they're talking about... and that, in itself, is proof that the word "anime", in its current english usage, communicates what it needs to.

And honestly, I'd rather have everyone calling it "anime" than "Jap-animation"... the inclusion of a racial slur (intentional or unintentional) makes quite a few people (including me) uncomfortable.
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:27   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuraramai

"anime ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-m)
n.
A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sex"
so south park is anime ^^
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:31   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
so south park is anime ^^
Only if it was developed in Japan (or in "anime style"), apparently. Which I suppose would make "Chinpokomon" and the playing with weapons anime ^_~/

Take it up with the dictionary people I just copy-paste

Though it's interesting to note that they're calling it a "style developed in Japan", without limiting it to animation produced in Japan. By this definition, anyone can make anime... as long as they copy the style.

The point was that the dictionary defines anime as something OTHER than "animation" or "cartoon"... and that, whatever the definition, it's changed significantly from the Japanese.
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Old 2006-04-22, 18:47   Link #11
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Dai Sato said in a recent interview that he would consider many American cartoons produced in a similar style as anime (he mentioned Boondocks, which I never saw, so I can't comment).

But of course, he is speaking from a Japanese perspective and we are talking about an English usage of the word.

I've seen Korean animation being off-handedly referred to as "Korean anime" on many occasions. I guess there is no term similar to manhwa (Korean manga) to refer to animation produced in South Korea.
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Old 2006-04-22, 22:43   Link #12
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I for one, DESPISE the word "cartoon". It makes me think of stupid, frivolous shows that are shallow and meant to amuse kids for 15 minutes.

I don't know what you're on but "Japanimation" does NOT make you sound smarter. It makes you sound dumber. -_- Most fans I know (who are quite smart) really dislike that made-up word.
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Old 2006-04-22, 22:50   Link #13
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I don't like Japanimation simply because it's too easy to say Jap-animation, instead of Japan-imation.
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Old 2006-04-22, 23:11   Link #14
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I sometimes call anime Japanese animation to friends who are not familiar with anime. I find absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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Old 2006-04-23, 01:40   Link #15
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Japanimation is also challanging,coz we can expect more quality works from the other countries if this word became hyped.Most the the anime are came from there so just like every body they might also have that kind of national spirit or something.May be that's the reason why this word is being coined.Most of the watchable anime are also came from there too,so some may generalize the term.

Agree with what Kamui4356 has just pointed out too アニメション is being pronounced as Animetion in japanese and Anime is a short form of that word.
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Old 2006-04-23, 01:44   Link #16
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I remember I wrote in extensive detail delving into issues related to dictionaries and definitions not quite over a year ago. I think it was on that "What is moe thread"...ah here it is. I'm quite surprised, and happy, that google still actually has a saved cache of that page. Thank goodness, as that saves me from having to re-write another lengthy essay to re-elucidate what I've already said. I've also saved and uploaded that same page onto my own webspace just in case that cache expires. This will be the basis of my following thoughts.

I'll give the thoughts that I've gathered while reading through this thread. It seems the major consensus, the general definition, of anime refers to Japanese animation, and cartoon refers to domestic animation, within us anime viewers. This consensus may exist to a larger discourse society, but I'm just putting a limit on the group to ensure this statement holds true. It sounds to me Razer_2mb doesn't like the distinction between these two words, so he choose to broaden both his definitions of anime and cartoon, to the point where the containment of these two words overlap each other in essentially the same area, and in effect, the two words are synonymous. He simply chose to be in the minority, to have his definitions lie outside of the major consensus. I'm wary to critic this action, as I myself also have argued for quite a few of my own definitions that lie outside of the major consensus as well (for example, the word "fanservice", anyone remember that? ). When a minority presents their views/perspectives, we listen to them, consider and/or analyze (to varying degrees up to one's desire) their arguments/points, and perhaps pass some judgment. In this case, I'll keep the final step to myself, and I'll just nod my head, acknowledging that I've done the first two steps. From this action, one may be able to infer where I stand on this particular issue.
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Last edited by Muir Woods; 2006-04-23 at 02:04.
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Old 2006-04-23, 01:45   Link #17
kj1980
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x アニメション
o アニメーション

Don't forget the elongated bar to extend the メ for the "ma" in "animation."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuraramai
But we're not... we're speaking english. Logically speaking, we didn't need to appropriate a foreign word to define something we already have a word for ("animation")... we didn't, however, have a word for Japanese animation in particular. So we've appropriated "anime" to mean "Japanese animation".
My fears exactly for the horrendously misused word of "hentai" (shivers).
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Old 2006-04-23, 02:24   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
My fears exactly for the horrendously misused word of "hentai" (shivers).
Like "anime", it's a word of it's own in colloquial English now.

And what do you suggest we call it? Ero-anime? 8)
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Old 2006-04-23, 04:27   Link #19
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To all you people who say "anime does not come from a french word", be prepared to eat your words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Some theorize the word comes from the French animé ("animated") or "les dessins animés" (animated drawings) and pronounce it as "ah nee MAY", though the Japanese themselves deny this theory.
That would be like us denying we got "garage" from the French.


Chiibi: Well, I like the word "Japanimation". Eat me. -_-
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Old 2006-04-23, 04:57   Link #20
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.... you're citing a rumor on Wikipedia to back up a claim?
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