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Old 2010-01-28, 11:01   Link #2801
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I sort of figured that already, and I know that if he didn't care about my comfort level, he would have kept going the first time things got heavy even if I said no. I guess there's just a part of me wondering why he's asking when we're only a week into the relationship, and then I feel guilty for wondering that in the first place.
Hmmm. That sounds just like me.

But then again, I'm just usually upfront about matters which would be embarassing for most people, to say the least. I'm just that kind of guy.

chewyannew has the right advice; this is a good chance to get to know just what kind of guy your Joe really is. Time to test him.
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Old 2010-01-28, 11:06   Link #2802
cheyannew
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Hmmm. That sounds just like me.

But then again, I'm just usually upfront about matters which would be embarassing for most people, to say the least. I'm just that kind of guy.

chewyannew has the right advice; this is a good chance to get to know just what kind of guy your Joe really is. Time to test him.
You know what? I'm fine with people being direct, etc.

When my hubby (mind you we've been married over 13 years) and I started discussing actually having a relationship, instead of just living together as a friends w/ benefits situation, we had to have a lot of discussions. With my past issues (abusive family, rape, etc), there are some things that I will freak out over, some're rational, some not. While it might've seemed premature in the first few weeks of knowing/talking to someone to get into such heavy discussions, it actually helped us. That he was willing to LISTEN, and validate my feelings (being the daughter of a Narcissistic Mother, validation's a big thing with me). He preferred to discuss things into the ground, even if the situation might NEVER present itself, than to have it come up and it wasn't discussed, and it hurt the relationship.

Personally, I feel this helped us in the long run: we can talk about ANYTHING, even if it's uncomfy (like the whole "i know you're mono but I'm poly" situation), and I know he will never invalidate me or anything. Even if he doesn't agree per say, he'll discuss it.
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Old 2010-01-28, 11:57   Link #2803
Animelover#1
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Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
You know what? I'm fine with people being direct, etc.

When my hubby (mind you we've been married over 13 years) and I started discussing actually having a relationship, instead of just living together as a friends w/ benefits situation, we had to have a lot of discussions. With my past issues (abusive family, rape, etc), there are some things that I will freak out over, some're rational, some not. While it might've seemed premature in the first few weeks of knowing/talking to someone to get into such heavy discussions, it actually helped us. That he was willing to LISTEN, and validate my feelings (being the daughter of a Narcissistic Mother, validation's a big thing with me). He preferred to discuss things into the ground, even if the situation might NEVER present itself, than to have it come up and it wasn't discussed, and it hurt the relationship.

Personally, I feel this helped us in the long run: we can talk about ANYTHING, even if it's uncomfy (like the whole "i know you're mono but I'm poly" situation), and I know he will never invalidate me or anything. Even if he doesn't agree per say, he'll discuss it.
He sounds like a great guy, and being married for 13 years, i guess that sets your relationship firmly in the concrete
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Old 2010-01-28, 12:09   Link #2804
cheyannew
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Originally Posted by Animelover#1 View Post
He sounds like a great guy, and being married for 13 years, i guess that sets your relationship firmly in the concrete
Well, yes and no.. while by today's standards we've been together a long while, who knows what could happen in 30 years or so? But I personally feel our communication is such that we'll still be together by the time one of us kicks the bucket. My gf and her hubby have excellent communication as well (and it truly is a learned thing, you have to work pretty hard on it at the beginning of a relationship lol), so she and I have very good communication between us. When they say "love isn't enough" they're spot on; communication and the ability to say "wow, I screwed up, sorry" helps too
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Old 2010-01-28, 13:27   Link #2805
Narona
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Wait, you're about my size and you consider yourself small? Them let me give you a bit of advice: come down here to Portugal for a while and behold how average that height is round this parts.

Really 1,60m is small, 1,70-1,75 is average. Just goes to show you how much difference there is from one edge of Europe to the other :P
True that average height differs from one part of Europe to another, but I see what Habhome means. He actually doesn't live in Portugal, and so can only take in account the average by swedish standards. It doesn't really help to think about the height of people from a country in which you're not living since you don't interact with them.

That said, while it is true that there are more girls who would prefer a BF taller than them, it doesn't mean that a part of them will not look at smaller men too.






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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
(Yes, I memorize the heights of short anime girls for reference. But it's not like I'm that obsessed with short girls or anything.)

Even a 20cm difference isn't a big deal as far as I can tell.
( )

Depends from which pov actually. It's not unusual at all when the girl is 20cm smaller than her BF (at least in France), but the opposite is way, way more rare. I don't mean no girl dates guys who are smaller than them, but not when the difference is 20cm or over. But we can't forget the fact that since there are not a lot of very tall girls, it plays a role in this observation. If the girl is 185cm, she would have to date a man who's 165cm, which leads to both extreme since most men are over 165cm and a girl is already considered tall once she's 172-175cm by french standards. That reduces the chances of happening by a lot.


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Originally Posted by Animelover#1 View Post
Size isn't a problem for me as long as there not TALLER, I hate it when girls are taller than me. It doesn't mean it couldnt work and I don't have anything against tall people, but I was seriously prefer them to be equal or slightly shorter.
As a tall girl, it makes me curious since I have heard some other men saying that. You still haven't explained what does annoy you so much when the girl is taller

You have no obligation to reply anyways, so don't force yourself


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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
An inside joke that I often share with my girl is that whenever we walk together, I'll occasionally pat her on the head and call her a 'hobbit'.

A pitfall of our vastly different heights? One time, when one of her friends saw us together, she said that my girl looked like my daughter. -_-"
Not even sister, but daughter literally
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Old 2010-01-28, 13:39   Link #2806
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
True that average height differs from one part of Europe to another, but I see what Habhome means. He actually doesn't live in Portugal, and so can only take in account the average by swedish standards. It doesn't really help to think about the height of people from a country in which you're not living since you don't interact with them.

That said, while it is true that there are more girls who would prefer a BF taller than them, it doesn't mean that a part of them will not look at smaller men too.
Indeed. And on the notion of girls looking at smaller men, my mom is distinctively taller than my dad. She's the same height as me. So of course all isn't lost.

Though my girlfriend have said that she likes when the guy is taller, luckily I am 1 cm taller than her =P But yeah, the standards of male height in Czech is just.. a lot taller than me xD Most guys look down on me.

Though she's said that she doesn't mind me not being so tall, still there's the thing of me knowing she likes taller guys, which is still making me a tiny bit worried inside. But I'm just very sensitive about stuff like that, get worried easily, too easily.
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Old 2010-01-28, 13:52   Link #2807
Narona
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Originally Posted by Habhome View Post
Indeed. And on the notion of girls looking at smaller men, my mom is distinctively taller than my dad. She's the same height as me. So of course all isn't lost.

Though my girlfriend have said that she likes when the guy is taller, luckily I am 1 cm taller than her =P But yeah, the standards of male height in Czech is just.. a lot taller than me xD Most guys look down on me.
Many males, but also girls in East europe are tall, I know that well But I don't think a lot of them think something bad or funny about smaller men. It's the same as when we meet somebody really, really tall, we tend to look at him out of surprise, but that's all. Usually there's no side thoughts to it.

Quote:
Though she's said that she doesn't mind me not being so tall, still there's the thing of me knowing she likes taller guys, which is still making me a tiny bit worried inside. But I'm just very sensitive about stuff like that, get worried easily, too easily.
That's just a preference but since she's with you and not with a taller man, it means that she sees qualities in you that she values more than a mere height preference. At least for now.

Last edited by Narona; 2010-01-28 at 14:52.
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Old 2010-01-28, 16:19   Link #2808
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Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
Ask him

If he gets affronted/defensive, then it'll be an indicator that your communication may not be as good as it'll need to be to continue.

Being a long distance relationship has pros and cons: you're not pressured into being intimate because you're not together per say, but on the flip side, it's harder to build that bond because all you've got are words, you can't look into one another's eyes and know one another, so to speak.
We talked about it last night, actually, and it turns out we're both kind of flying blind right now. He's never actually dated a girl who hasn't had sex, so it's just as much a learning curve for him as it is for me. Right now we decided to take things slowly, and hopefully in time I'll feel more comfortable with what he wants from me physically, even if only in cyberspace at the moment.
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Old 2010-01-28, 16:39   Link #2809
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
We talked about it last night, actually, and it turns out we're both kind of flying blind right now. He's never actually dated a girl who hasn't had sex, so it's just as much a learning curve for him as it is for me. Right now we decided to take things slowly, and hopefully in time I'll feel more comfortable with what he wants from me physically, even if only in cyberspace at the moment.
If you got a webcam, and he does, maybe you can have a video chat. Not saying do something stupid in front of it, but sort of being able to see him and him being able to see you might take the nerves off you in anxiety, knowing he's there.

Before I started dating my ex, I hadn't seen her for 6 or so months. All I had was an old school photo she sent me, and even then people doubted her existance.
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:10   Link #2810
Ricky Controversy
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I have a question I've been bandying about in my mind, but I feel I should preface it some first.

All very recently, three different girls whom I was interested in romantically at one point or another all got in touch with me through various means. While the gaps between my last contact with each of them vary wildly, it is enough that while I still like them very much, the initial glow of admiration has faded into something more realistic. I also (hope that I) am more mature and observant than I was back then, and thus equipped, I found myself re-evaluating those attractions and trying to piece together what I really find important. Something I've realized is that I very highly value a realistic self-assessment. End preface.

How important would anyone here consider that to be? I suspect we can all agree it is indeed important, but how much so is what I'm curious to hear what you think about. Allow me to lay out an example.

Girl A, shall we call her, is an out-and-out tsundere. She has a temper, doesn't trust people very easily, and while she is kind and loving towards me, that only came after a year-long break following six-years of my bending over backwards to be there for her, and she tends to be far less kind to other people. This bothers me significantly, to the extent that all of her good traits only outweigh this by a bit. What genuinely impresses me, though, is that she has gained a very clear understanding of herself. She knows her weaknesses and is striving very hard to improve upon them. Further, she maintains humility and realism about her talents. She is a skilled artist, singer and musician, but knows her place and refuses to rest on her laurels. I find this attractive because, as an avid student of the arts with training in formal criticism, I cannot bring myself to coddle people. This is not to say I like down upon anyone who is not extremely capable, rather that if someone tells me such-and-such is great and it turns out not to be, I will not lie to that person's face and say it is great.

Girl B is extremely sweet, funny, generous, thoughtful, playful and has a beautiful speaking voice. While Girl A is more intelligent, Girl B is certainly above average in that regard. She is also extremely dedicated to me: while we never went past friends when we were younger, she has actually waited--as in never dated a guy--the entire intervening period to have a chance to be with me. All of these things are extremely inviting despite the initial enamored feeling dissipating. What I notice now, however, is that she has something of an unrealistic assessment of herself and what she is capable of. Again this comes through in the area of art. Her standards are very low, and while she is a decent artist and a mediocre writer, she keeps company that is roughly on the same skill level as her, and so is consistently told how very capable she is. As long as art or intellectual matters do not come up, being in her company is still as wonderful as it always was, but I simply cannot have those kinds of discussions with her, and being around her friends, kind as they are, is insufferable to me because I'll be surrounded by five or six people gawking in joyful amazement at one person's poem while my only thought will be how immature it is.

Finally, Girl C is also sweet, funny, thoughtful, etc. The most intelligent of the three girls, I'd think, and also the one with the greatest amount of common ground. The things we share enthusiasm about, she is as enthusiastic as I am. She is also the least creative of the three. While she can actually write well enough, she does not do it consistently enough to develop the skill. However, I don't actually mind that in her case at all for one reason. By her own admission, it is not something she focuses on, and she knows full well where her strengths and weaknesses lie in that and every other area. She is perhaps the most self-aware of the three.

I found, oddly, that if I were still pursuing any of them today, it would be either Girl A or Girl C, most likely, instead of Girl B. Is self-awareness that important to anyone else, or am I just being a snob?
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:19   Link #2811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
I have a question I've been bandying about in my mind, but I feel I should preface it some first.

All very recently, three different girls whom I was interested in romantically at one point or another all got in touch with me through various means. While the gaps between my last contact with each of them vary wildly, it is enough that while I still like them very much, the initial glow of admiration has faded into something more realistic. I also (hope that I) am more mature and observant than I was back then, and thus equipped, I found myself re-evaluating those attractions and trying to piece together what I really find important. Something I've realized is that I very highly value a realistic self-assessment. End preface.

How important would anyone here consider that to be? I suspect we can all agree it is indeed important, but how much so is what I'm curious to hear what you think about. Allow me to lay out an example.

Girl A, shall we call her, is an out-and-out tsundere. She has a temper, doesn't trust people very easily, and while she is kind and loving towards me, that only came after a year-long break following six-years of my bending over backwards to be there for her, and she tends to be far less kind to other people. This bothers me significantly, to the extent that all of her good traits only outweigh this by a bit. What genuinely impresses me, though, is that she has gained a very clear understanding of herself. She knows her weaknesses and is striving very hard to improve upon them. Further, she maintains humility and realism about her talents. She is a skilled artist, singer and musician, but knows her place and refuses to rest on her laurels. I find this attractive because, as an avid student of the arts with training in formal criticism, I cannot bring myself to coddle people. This is not to say I like down upon anyone who is not extremely capable, rather that if someone tells me such-and-such is great and it turns out not to be, I will not lie to that person's face and say it is great.

Girl B is extremely sweet, funny, generous, thoughtful, playful and has a beautiful speaking voice. While Girl A is more intelligent, Girl B is certainly above average in that regard. She is also extremely dedicated to me: while we never went past friends when we were younger, she has actually waited--as in never dated a guy--the entire intervening period to have a chance to be with me. All of these things are extremely inviting despite the initial enamored feeling dissipating. What I notice now, however, is that she has something of an unrealistic assessment of herself and what she is capable of. Again this comes through in the area of art. Her standards are very low, and while she is a decent artist and a mediocre writer, she keeps company that is roughly on the same skill level as her, and so is consistently told how very capable she is. As long as art or intellectual matters do not come up, being in her company is still as wonderful as it always was, but I simply cannot have those kinds of discussions with her, and being around her friends, kind as they are, is insufferable to me because I'll be surrounded by five or six people gawking in joyful amazement at one person's poem while my only thought will be how immature it is.

Finally, Girl C is also sweet, funny, thoughtful, etc. The most intelligent of the three girls, I'd think, and also the one with the greatest amount of common ground. The things we share enthusiasm about, she is as enthusiastic as I am. She is also the least creative of the three. While she can actually write well enough, she does not do it consistently enough to develop the skill. However, I don't actually mind that in her case at all for one reason. By her own admission, it is not something she focuses on, and she knows full well where her strengths and weaknesses lie in that and every other area. She is perhaps the most self-aware of the three.

I found, oddly, that if I were still pursuing any of them today, it would be either Girl A or Girl C, most likely, instead of Girl B. Is self-awareness that important to anyone else, or am I just being a snob?
Wow, okay...personally, no. I wouldn't be seeing you as a snob, just as an extremely lucky guy. I'd pick C over A, despite that A recognises her weakness, you said yourself she's only ever kind to you. Honestly, like comparing, well, anything of this nature, you've considered the pros and cons of each quite detailed.

How very recently are we talking? If it's very recent, then maybe you should give it some more time as some more of the qualities of the girls seep through, yeah?
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:22   Link #2812
Ricky Controversy
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Originally Posted by Harufox View Post
Wow, okay...personally, no. I wouldn't be seeing you as a snob, just as an extremely lucky guy. I'd pick C over A, despite that A recognises her weakness, you said yourself she's only ever kind to you. Honestly, like comparing, well, anything of this nature, you've considered the pros and cons of each quite detailed.

How very recently are we talking? If it's very recent, then maybe you should give it some more time as some more of the qualities of the girls seep through, yeah?
Odds are that I will not be pursuing any of these options until my novel is published and I have an agent to shop my screenplay around, so this is really more of a self-awareness (hah!) exercise at this point. But to answer your question, Girl A was an eighteen month communication gap, Girl B was six years and Girl C was two months. This is less about them being old flames and more about my starting to notice the whole self-awareness part of the equation, though.
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:29   Link #2813
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Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
Odds are that I will not be pursuing any of these options until my novel is published and I have an agent to shop my screenplay around, so this is really more of a self-awareness (hah!) exercise at this point. But to answer your question, Girl A was an eighteen month communication gap, Girl B was six years and Girl C was two months. This is less about them being old flames and more about my starting to notice the whole self-awareness part of the equation, though.
*sips coffee* well....it's a tough one...you've known these girls for a while, and are continuing to hold off until the release of your novel. I wouldn't be making a decision right now, although trying to get a fair idea about what you wanna do after the novel's released isn't a bad idea.

And...I'm not joking, I am sipping coffee as I read this xD
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:34   Link #2814
Ricky Controversy
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*sips coffee* well....it's a tough one...you've known these girls for a while, and are continuing to hold off until the release of your novel. I wouldn't be making a decision right now, although trying to get a fair idea about what you wanna do after the novel's released isn't a bad idea.

And...I'm not joking, I am sipping coffee as I read this xD
Really, more than anything, I'm just curious to know how important people think self-awareness is. If there's advice to be had on what of my options to pursue, that's a nice bonus for later, but the explanation was provided so that people could know exactly what I meant by self-awareness and also how strongly I'm valuing it.

I'm trying to figure out the value of self-awareness in a partner as something to look for going forward in general, rather than this one specific instance, you know? I get other people who are hardcore students of the arts telling me that I'm in the right, but of course they'd agree about that sort of thing. But then, that's a circle of snobbery.
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Old 2010-01-28, 18:10   Link #2815
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Self awareness.. hmm. Well, me myself I can't stand people who overestimate themselves and claim to be awesome at something when they in fact aren't, so I guess I'm in some way the same. And I am by no means a Hardcore arts student =P I'm going for Programming ^^
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Old 2010-01-28, 18:15   Link #2816
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Personally, I see nothing wrong with being attracted to someone based off their self awareness. Usually, when a person is aware of his or her own faults, admits to them, and makes an effort to try and change themselves for the better, it's considered an attractive thing because it shows that person isn't snobby or overestimating themselves. Besides, usually when someone is aware of their faults, it means they also know their strengths.
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Old 2010-01-28, 18:52   Link #2817
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Personally, I see nothing wrong with being attracted to someone based off their self awareness. Usually, when a person is aware of his or her own faults, admits to them, and makes an effort to try and change themselves for the better, it's considered an attractive thing because it shows that person isn't snobby or overestimating themselves. Besides, usually when someone is aware of their faults, it means they also know their strengths.
Not necessarily, some people are very aware of their personal flaws but tend to ignore their strengths (and I'll admit straight away that I believe myself to be in this category).

As for the question of whether such self-awareness is important in romantic interests I would have to say it depends on the person. Everyone rates different qualities higher than others so I can't say as a fact that most people look at that quality as a fact, I don't even believe that's one of the qualities I value the most even if it is a very highly regarded one in my book.

As for your situation Ricky Controversy and considering all you've told us I would say you shouldn't focus so much on analyzing the qualities and flaws of each of those girls and more on how you feel when you're with them but that's just me.
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Old 2010-01-28, 18:57   Link #2818
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*gets a better view now that he's fully awake and finished his coffee* ah, I see what you mean now . Stupid me, I'd say then that A has self-awareness. She's able to tell the fact that she's not exactly nice to others.

Self awareness is quite important, now that you mention it. If you are able to tell your weaknesses instead of hide them for others to find out, then you're doing better than I am . Also understanding that it may be difficult to change bad habits that you pick up genetically or in early childhood (*cough* thank you dad *cough*), will help you get a better understanding of yourself and how you present yourself to the public.
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Old 2010-01-29, 06:32   Link #2819
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@ Narona
No particular reason, though I guess I just prefer someone shorter or the same. taller people (when dating) just make me feel a little uncomfortable, i guess.

@ self awareness topic
I guess I understand what your saying. I know my strength's and weakness's well.
Weakness 1: I'm a lazy SOB
Strength 1: I'm good at art
Weakness 2: I sometimes say something offensive without thinking
Strength 2: I'm kind and considerate and understanding.
Weakness 3: I can get really paranoid about people looking at me for some particular reason or another
Strength 3: I'm non-judgemental.

This list could go on for ever :P
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Old 2010-01-29, 14:02   Link #2820
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Originally Posted by Animelover#1 View Post
@ Narona
No particular reason, though I guess I just prefer someone shorter or the same. taller people (when dating) just make me feel a little uncomfortable, i guess.
*yawn*...I wouldn't blame you. A height difference makes it hard to kiss while standing. Either one has to break their back or the other must find a bench or even just be carried by the other...actually when I look at it that way (and with my gf too) that might be more fun

(i've been using Yawn because it's like 6AM, I should be asleep but I managed to wake myself up half an hour ago. Therefore my mind is at half it's working capacity, these opinions are therefore labelled with "Sleepy")
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