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Old 2010-03-13, 11:58   Link #3801
Habhome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
How many of you here in a relationship can say that you wholly trust your partner?
If I didn't trust my girlfriend it'd be impossible to keep the relationship going over 1000+km. So yes, I'd say I "wholly trust her".
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Old 2010-03-13, 11:58   Link #3802
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Just like how we guys are constantly searching for our perfect women with stereotypical images in our minds, I believe the opposing sex have the same thoughts. It is always due to one trait puts off one from another, so IMO, it is about give-and-take that makes relationships work.

That second part has it all wrong after the "be yourself" part. In fact, I doubt that "being yourself" will net you much if everyone else is so judgemental : people see straightforwardness as tactless rather than honesty, trustworthiness as bootlicking, helpfulness as wanting future benefits, and innocence as scheming. Trust has become so diluted that it is only worth something when a win-win consensus can be put into action at that very moment it is decided.

Even in BGRs, where we seek both emotional and physical benefits, it applies as in the game of life, resort to any way to gain benefits (including pre-emptive cheating as a backup plan), and not get cheated somehow. How many of you here in a relationship can say that you wholly trust your partner?

Trustworthiness, like respect, is getting harder and harder to earn everyday. But it is still the easiest thing to give, and has to be directly offered for a trade.
While I won't doubt that there are many people who think that way, and I myself am rather cynical and untrusting nowadays, I can't say the same for others. There are people who are straightforward, blunt, capable of trust, and willing to help without direct action in return.

You see, the problem is, you will always revert to yourself in a relationship eventually; You can't pretend to be something else. So when the modified behavior wears off, she'll leave you if that's what was attracting her to you in the first place. Thus, I suppose it's good for a short time, maybe a one-night stand or something.

But the only person who is gonna stay with you, is someone who likes the real you. If you pretend to be someone else, that person who would have liked the real you, won't see it, and thus you'll miss them. In exchange, you get cheap fluff dates and relationships. If that's what you want, go for it. But if you want anything deeper, you have to be yourself eventually.

There is always the school of thought that says you can keep the act up long enough to make her emotionally dependent upon you, until it doesn't matter what you really are; she won't leave you (cue the abusive relationship). But I don't want that kind of relationship, either, because I want my woman to be able to argue back, show me when I'm wrong, and help correct me when I need it.

So, I suppose it all depends on what you want.
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Old 2010-03-13, 12:49   Link #3803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
So, I suppose it all depends on what you want.
I want a loli catgirl with part-tsundere traits, then.
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Old 2010-03-13, 15:11   Link #3804
RadiantBeam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I want a loli catgirl with part-tsundere traits, then.
Good luck with that. And sadly, even part-tsunderes in real life aren't half as funny or cute as they are in the media.
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Old 2010-03-13, 18:53   Link #3805
Mystique
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Quote:
Since Saintess already opened the floodgates for Sankaku-related otakubait dating "tips"...
Seeing as I noted a good deal purely applying towards a japanese woman/mindset, I'll pass on answering those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I want a loli catgirl with part-tsundere traits, then.
Which makes me wonder when 99.9% of your posts in this thread are anime/2D related or referenced, why are you hanging out in the dating thread which primarily concerns offline relationships.
(now before i get slapped for being mean)
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Good luck with that. And sadly, even part-tsunderes in real life aren't half as funny or cute as they are in the media.
I know this is animesuki.com, but seriously?
Can we talk/define girls using non anime related terms such as tsundere, dere-dere and the rest that I will never get down no matter how many times someone directs me to the wiki entry on these terms? ><;;;;

If a tsundere is meant to typically be a 'bad-tempered tomboy, who secretly likes a guy but won't show it', just say so or define that within your posts? xD

@ Saintess: Your last post about 'it's being wrong to be yourself' and the general tone is really pessimistic.
Can you truly trust your partner? Of course, I look at Chey's way of living and she in some senses lives a purer life than most of us, seeing as she's Poly, there is no time for deception.
You're entitled to be as you are but I see that negative, 'general women disliking, anime girls are much more convenient' undertone in almost everything you write, whether you realise it or not.
Makes me wonder, have you truly given up on the general female population completely to the point you can't be neutral (ie, Kaijo neutral, somewhat pessimistic but very grounded) about us (women) anymore at such a young age?
(And if that is the case, should you be in the dating thread often then, giving advice? )
Just curious...
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Old 2010-03-13, 20:29   Link #3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Good luck with that. And sadly, even part-tsunderes in real life aren't half as funny or cute as they are in the media.

Agreed. Maybe because I don't actually know any actual tsunderes or even part-tsunderes but I don't see why guys would be attracted to them irl? >_> I'm sure my guyfriends/bf wouldn't be attracted to females who hit them or speak harshly with them... even if they have a softer side lol =P

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Old 2010-03-13, 20:38   Link #3807
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I probably couldn't stand Tsunderes in real life. A friend of mine had someone who was practically the 3d incarnation of one and I couldn't stand being around her.
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Old 2010-03-13, 22:09   Link #3808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Can we talk/define girls using non anime related terms such as tsundere, dere-dere and the rest that I will never get down no matter how many times someone directs me to the wiki entry on these terms? ><;;;;
"Tsundere" sounds more polite than "bitch", though. Especially since IRl, that's basically what an anime girl with tsundere traits would be. A bitch.
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Old 2010-03-13, 22:20   Link #3809
yoropa
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You can only fake yourself for so long before your shell cracks, and that can lead to massive repercussions. This is true for more than just relationships. Masking parts of your identity may be important in some circumstances (such as business, work, among elders), but it should not happen around those you plan on keeping close to you (family, friends, loved ones).

However, you should also consider than almost every post I make contains some form of inflammatory, controversial, unholy, evil, baby-killing statement so don't take what I say seriously at all unless you put great consideration into it.

I may actually make that last paragraph my sig... Hmm...
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Old 2010-03-13, 22:26   Link #3810
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I probably couldn't stand Tsunderes in real life. A friend of mine had someone who was practically the 3d incarnation of one and I couldn't stand being around her.
As I mentioned earlier, a girl I knew once jabbed me in the ribs several times with a kendo stick. I win.
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Old 2010-03-14, 00:33   Link #3811
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Good luck with that. And sadly, even part-tsunderes in real life aren't half as funny or cute as they are in the media.
It all depends how you look at it. I view bad-temper as a form of insecurity, and it is kind of cute to see them get flustered over small things occasionally.

Basically I view such relationships to have each individual in it complement each other and help address the flaws of the opposing party. An easy-going guy and a tsundere, for example, is one of such. The guy probably lets too many things slide that he is taken advantage of, and the girl addresses it by reminding him and telling him not to let it slide. And the guy's confidence which results in his easy going personality, addresses the insecurity of the girl. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Which makes me wonder when 99.9% of your posts in this thread are anime/2D related or referenced, why are you hanging out in the dating thread which primarily concerns offline relationships.
(now before i get slapped for being mean)
LOL. If it is that easy describing people from scratch in real life, there wouldn't be a need for references.

I can build a wall of text about every girl I meet IRL, but don't you think it is easier to reference her to an anime character or something? I primarily think it is because I don't watch anything else other than anime and documentaries. Since you are a female, how would you like it if a guy compared you to have a "temper of a walrus" yet a "dedication of a carpenter"? It may not be you, but I bet that there will be some who associate the walrus with being fat and angry, and that word "fat" is destructive enough.

Besides, I view this as a casual thread. Nothing wrong with that right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
@ Saintess: Your last post about 'it's being wrong to be yourself' and the general tone is really pessimistic.
Can you truly trust your partner? Of course, I look at Chey's way of living and she in some senses lives a purer life than most of us, seeing as she's Poly, there is no time for deception.
You're entitled to be as you are but I see that negative, 'general women disliking, anime girls are much more convenient' undertone in almost everything you write, whether you realise it or not.
Makes me wonder, have you truly given up on the general female population completely to the point you can't be neutral (ie, Kaijo neutral, somewhat pessimistic but very grounded) about us (women) anymore at such a young age?
(And if that is the case, should you be in the dating thread often then, giving advice? )
Just curious...
We are all presenting our views based on our experiences in each area. I had quite a number of bad ones here (almost all), but that doesn't mean I don't give a benefit of doubt. If I did, I wouldn't be posting here and just retain my jaded view of BGRs.

Personally I am a person who likes sharing views and getting responses (excluding anon negreps). If I already pointed out that IRL tsunderes are characteristically cute while other posters view them as bitches, I don't think it would count as me being really a nihilist right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I probably couldn't stand Tsunderes in real life. A friend of mine had someone who was practically the 3d incarnation of one and I couldn't stand being around her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
"Tsundere" sounds more polite than "bitch", though. Especially since IRl, that's basically what an anime girl with tsundere traits would be. A bitch.
I doubt if anyone is perfect. People have flaws, but like what Kaijo said, it depends on what you want.

Personally I cannot stand dense girls (Yui Hirasawa types) and possessive types (Ui Hirasawa types), honest or not. Drives me up the wall, and my definition of "bitch". I guess our choice of words can be rather vague at times.

Besides tsunderes are usually honest about their feelings, just that they react opposite to how they feel. It is their form of psychological defense barrier as a human being, so what is yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
As I mentioned earlier, a girl I knew once jabbed me in the ribs several times with a kendo stick. I win.
And lose a few ribs in a process. If I were you I would grab the stick and run, I don't hit girls unless they go too far in taunting.
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2010-03-14 at 00:43.
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Old 2010-03-14, 02:58   Link #3812
Kafriel
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Quote:
Simple.
Nothing is simple while dating I think that the most important part is knowing who you're dealing with. As you and Kaijo said, there are people who view virtues as looming vice and try not to be fooled by superficial behavior. I, on the other hand, think that it depends on that person's past experience with others, for example getting hurt too many times will definitely lead to that sort of thinking. Still, if someone's living in a society of mild theater where people can be themselves for a while, an honest, helpful person is seen in good light. To give an example: I go on a date with my hot actress-wannabe gf, and I take her to a fancy restaurant. Everything goes fine, she was smiling, said she liked the food and the service, and found me smart, interesting and funny (girls get smart/pretty/funny, the combination is usually the same though:P). So anyway, as I am driving her back, she starts nagging about the wine definitely not being a Chambernet '67, the waiter kept looking at her body, the music was awful and the food was just as bad. I'll feel very bad about it because she lied to me at first, and when she goes home she tells her sister that she doesn't find me as good as she let me believe. Then her sister confides in me and I break up with the girl. If the sister is the honest type who would tell me she doesn't like the place and wants to go for a walk in the park, I'd date her instead and be happier than average, because of the security her honesty provides.
That was the happy ending...
Spoiler for BAD ending, maybe too dark for this time in the morning:

Despite being able to think like that, I like to believe that there are purely honest people in the world, even if I don't happen to come across any~

P.S: the above situations are examples, any stunning resemblance to real-life situations is purely coincidental, this is a work of fiction!
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Old 2010-03-14, 04:55   Link #3813
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
LOL. If it is that easy describing people from scratch in real life, there wouldn't be a need for references.

I can build a wall of text about every girl I meet IRL, but don't you think it is easier to reference her to an anime character or something? I primarily think it is because I don't watch anything else other than anime and documentaries.
No, cause these terms are specialised terms for one main genre of anime, extracting it from the Japanese language.
That's incredibly limited and as I've seen, you've made a few more character references that just totally throws me off your post, since I can't relate.
If a girl's so evil that she's a bitch, then she's a bitch.
No use being polite if she's horrible.
If you wanted to describe someone with a crazy temper:
She has a fierce temper, she's incredibly fiery.
Her words cut like sharp knives. She's ruthless.

You know... the other vocab in the English language which is universally applicable.

And yes, a walrus is a bad example, lol. If they wanna reference an animal for temper than 'hellcat' is fine enough (since they hiss)
I'd tell the guy to work on his similes more or don't use them
Quote:
We are all presenting our views based on our experiences in each area. I had quite a number of bad ones here (almost all), but that doesn't mean I don't give a benefit of doubt. If I did, I wouldn't be posting here and just retain my jaded view of BGRs.

Personally I am a person who likes sharing views and getting responses (excluding anon negreps).
And what’s a BGR? *sighs*
It's hard to see or imagine you'd give a girl a chance without running some kinda "anime reference index" in your brain to sum her up before continuing to communicate with her.
In other words, try not to cross reference girls and women who aren't designed by people's imaginations so much that it becomes an unconscious habit?
Quote:
If I already pointed out that IRL tsunderes are characteristically cute while other posters view them as bitches, I don't think it would count as me being really a nihilist right?
Not just girls that you categorise as "tsunderes" that I'm referring to.
It's your constant use of the anime references and favouring the "2D" world to some degree in your posts over the last month or so.
As you said, you have had some bad offline experiences unfortunately, so there isn’t much to be positive in that side of things, but at least try to be neutral and take a women/girl for who she is from day 1 without mentally glancing to some kinda anime reference?

Is just my two pence to you. As it is, I cannot follow those anime terms, so I'll remain on my lurking seat and skip over some posts.
Should someone want some advice for a real life situation, I'll poke my head back in again.
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Old 2010-03-14, 10:36   Link #3814
yoropa
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I personally find it demeaning to categorize people as anime characters, regardless of genders. I only know one person whom I equate to an anime character solely because she lacks any sort of emotional depth or emotional control to the point that she acts cartoonish. That, and being into anime she tries to imitate the characters to such an extent that it's actually interfered with her original personality, and as such she is a complete social wreck who literally cannot even begin to fathom the concept that people may have different opinions than her on various matters. In other words, she completely shut herself away from the realm of cognitive reality.

Earlier in the thread I said I wanted somebody whose interests are dramatically different than my own. Now you know why. I cannot handle people who are unstable like she is, and in my experience all serious anime/video game fans I have met have this same exact problem. I need somebody who has some form of internal physiological support for themselves, or at least some ability to intelligently convey internal problems and the willingness to listen to advice given in order to fix said problems.

And needless to say, thanks to that being one of my biggest standards, I have yet to find anybody I like.
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Old 2010-03-14, 10:37   Link #3815
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
<snip>

Is just my two pence to you. As it is, I cannot follow those anime terms, so I'll remain on my lurking seat and skip over some posts.
Should someone want some advice for a real life situation, I'll poke my head back in again.
THEN SAY SO! And there I was thinking if I had offended you in some way, or that you are a world's no. 1 princess with an upturned nose.

Regarding the favouritism of 2D to 3D, apparently it is a result of staying at home too much as I need to save before I start school (and I just left the army recently). Practically most of my friends are gone, mostly overseas studying or dropped out of my grid, so I have to slowly rebuild that network. Meanwhile, I will stay at home and watch anime all day and keep my expenditure to the minimum.

Quote:
No, cause these terms are specialised terms for one main genre of anime, extracting it from the Japanese language.
That's incredibly limited and as I've seen, you've made a few more character references that just totally throws me off your post, since I can't relate.
If a girl's so evil that she's a bitch, then she's a bitch.
No use being polite if she's horrible.
If you wanted to describe someone with a crazy temper:
She has a fierce temper, she's incredibly fiery.
Her words cut like sharp knives. She's ruthless.
You know... the other vocab in the English language which is universally applicable.

And yes, a walrus is a bad example, lol. If they wanna reference an animal for temper than 'hellcat' is fine enough (since they hiss)
I'd tell the guy to work on his similes more or don't use them
As much as English language permits, I do believe in keeping sentences as short as possible (which I apparently start to fail badly at with my WoTs). And regarding your definition of bitches, that is from your perspective, not mine.

The usage of imagery is different from one to another, similarly people would think of different first words to describe a pizza. It all depends on our familiarity, and what we can associate and reference with the closest. My reply to that "working with the similes" thing is that suggestion is "as objective as a mission plan". Do you understand? Probably not, and that is because we think differently, so it is either we ask, or we infer if we really don't know what the other party is pointing at.

And clarifying a few things :

BGR - Boy-Girl relationship
Tsundere - A girl who has a combative attitude toward others but is also kind on the inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
I personally find it demeaning to categorize people as anime characters, regardless of genders. I only know one person whom I equate to an anime character solely because she lacks any sort of emotional depth or emotional control to the point that she acts cartoonish. That, and being into anime she tries to imitate the characters to such an extent that it's actually interfered with her original personality, and as such she is a complete social wreck who literally cannot even begin to fathom the concept that people may have different opinions than her on various matters. In other words, she completely shut herself away from the realm of cognitive reality.
I always laugh when people talk about themselves being "realistic". Applying simple logic, realism is just something each of us create because our perspectives are different. And because we see things differently, our opinions differ.

That is the underlying intention of the idiom "never judge a book by its cover". As much as we can categorise them and diversify everyone, we still have to accept people for who they are, though it is a difficult process I am still having problem practicing because of our mental filters and personal bias.

So, it isn't demeaning to find people who categorise others as anime characters demeaning?
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Old 2010-03-14, 12:24   Link #3816
yoropa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I always laugh when people talk about themselves being "realistic". Applying simple logic, realism is just something each of us create because our perspectives are different. And because we see things differently, our opinions differ.

That is the underlying intention of the idiom "never judge a book by its cover". As much as we can categorise them and diversify everyone, we still have to accept people for who they are, though it is a difficult process I am still having problem practicing because of our mental filters and personal bias.

So, it isn't demeaning to find people who categorise others as anime characters demeaning?
To your first paragraph, there is a generally accepted reality. It is ignorant to think otherwise. To your second paragraph, I accept who she is. Whether or not I like it is something completely different. I've gone beyond the cover and I know the full story. To your final sentence, I never said I found you or the people who do this demeaning; I find the act of doing this demeaning to whomever gets categorized this way.

I don't think it's right to look at somebody and say "You're so tsundere." I'd rather you just say "You sometimes act rude and direct, but I know inside you're a nice person." The latter has far more depth, meaning, and emotion than the former.
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Old 2010-03-14, 12:53   Link #3817
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
THEN SAY SO! And there I was thinking if I had offended you in some way, or that you are a world's no. 1 princess with an upturned nose.
It's generally helpful to avoid the use of specialized terms. The more general and descriptive your language, the more likely it will be understood. I strive to be understood, so I try to keep my language at a base level; I also find shortening things to save a few keystrokes as... unnecessary. Thus, I'd say guy/girl instead of BGR. I don't want to have to try and translate what someone is saying based on shorthand, so I try to keep my posts as clear as possible.

Quote:
Regarding the favouritism of 2D to 3D, apparently it is a result of staying at home too much as I need to save before I start school (and I just left the army recently). Practically most of my friends are gone, mostly overseas studying or dropped out of my grid, so I have to slowly rebuild that network. Meanwhile, I will stay at home and watch anime all day and keep my expenditure to the minimum.
Then you really do need to get out more. There's nothing wrong with 2D, but real people are 3D.. well, they have many more dimensions than simply 3. Thus, labels are mostly inadequate, although they can do for some small parts of us. I generally shun people now, but I recognize they are more complex than simple terms can do, so I strive to get to know where they are coming from.

To keep it somewhat on topic, this especially goes for those I would date. I enjoy the straight-forward blunt and honest nature, and to be able to do that in return. People are complex creatures, and it takes time to really get to know someone; though it's perfectly fine to admit interest. Misunderstandings are the cause of so many arguments, fights, and disagreements; that's why I prefer to be honest and try to communicate well at all costs, to avoid those.
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Old 2010-03-14, 16:52   Link #3818
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
I don't think it's right to look at somebody and say "You're so tsundere." I'd rather you just say "You sometimes act rude and direct, but I know inside you're a nice person." The latter has far more depth, meaning, and emotion than the former.
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Saintess intended for it to carry, "depth, meaning and emotion". Nobody I've met uses terms like tsundere without intending it to be teasing or humourous. Ditto for the occasions when I've told my girlfriend she's "moe".
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Old 2010-03-14, 17:04   Link #3819
yoropa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Saintess intended for it to carry, "depth, meaning and emotion". Nobody I've met uses terms like tsundere without intending it to be teasing or humourous. Ditto for the occasions when I've told my girlfriend she's "moe".
Of course I'm fine with it in jest. I've sadly seen people who have gone way overboard with these terms to the point that they fall in love with an archetype and not a person. And thus you end up with people marrying their pillows and DS video games and other stuff like that...
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Old 2010-03-14, 17:24   Link #3820
RadiantBeam
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Age: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
Of course I'm fine with it in jest. I've sadly seen people who have gone way overboard with these terms to the point that they fall in love with an archetype and not a person. And thus you end up with people marrying their pillows and DS video games and other stuff like that...
As sad as the last few lines sound, it's a person's choice to marry what they marry; and clearly, at least on some level, they seem to be extremely happy about it and genuinely have no regrets. Again, like I mentioned before, I usually tend to use anime terms for girls because they sound more polite than the real life terms I'd use in their place.
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