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Old 2012-07-28, 07:41   Link #10581
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
People like us are screwed in the self-esteem department from day one. Your parents have achieved so much, so the bar is already set very high. Even if you do better than your peers, you're always being measured against something much greater. In my case, at best I could only ever equal my parents; I don't think I could realistically better them. It didn't help that I don't have a knack for exams. As a result, no matter what you do, you're never measuring up.
Yeah. For me there's also an aspect of "younger sibling syndrome", my older sister was always far more diligent then I am. On the flip side, her experiences somewhat colour mine, while she won't admit it, I think her schooling was a waste of time, she studied genetics, and graduated top of her class. Now she's working in graphic design (or at least trying to...), and as I see it, professionally she's no better off then if she had never gone to college at all. Obviously, there's more to college then professional qualifications, but I think the "personal growth" aspects of university happen inside or outside college.
Quote:
The thing is, what I'm doing when I view myself - and what I suspect you're doing, too - is I'm comparing myself purely to those who are at my playing field or higher. When I look at what I've done, I see the failures and the never-happened's, instead of recognizing the achievements. I can't see what my true accomplishments are, partly because I'm so focused on my negatives, and partly because they're obscured by what all of my peers are doing.
I think another aspect is that, living in a meritocratic society, failure is a lot harder to cope with. We have a view (at least in the western world) that a person's success and failures are due to their own qualities. If you do well, you're a good quality person, if you fail, you're bad quality. So when you succeed, it of course feels good, because you feel like "I'm a great person!", but when you fail it feels awful, because not only do you have to cope with the failure, but you also feel worthless as a human being.

In older time, people tended to think things were "fated", which I think cushions you from life's failures, while helping you to take a more modest attitude towards success. When you fail, it's not your fault, and when you succeed, it was not just down to you. Of course, I don't think either is completely true, failure and success comes from a mix of factors you have greater or lesser degrees of control over.

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I sympathize with your sentiments about college, in that college work is just more book work that doesn't really make a mark on the world. While there may be hundreds of thousands of engineering graduates each year, it doesn't diminish what you've done. Whether you want to chalk it up to perseverance, intelligence, or some other factor, not everyone could have done what you did. I couldn't. Sure, life is really beginning for you now, but everything that you've done up until this point still counts for something.
My views on achievement may be a bit idiosyncratic, but for me, achievement is a very specific thing, though something that I think all people can achieve. For me achievement is:
1. A feat of skill, ability or intelligence
2. Requires some degree of individual initiative
3. Has value outside of purely social concerns

For me University education (at least for engineering) in itself is not an achievement because while it does require skill and intelligence, it does not require individual initiative (you can complete it without ever needing to think critically or for the most part creatively), and finally it's value is almost purely social, in that it's largely entirely an effort to gain a credential. Now that credential is supposed to mean something (IE you are supposed to have such and such knowledge), and gaining that knowledge is an achievement. So I do feel it is something of an achievement that I know all about thermodynamics, heat transfer, differential calculus etc. But I don't feel the fact I have a degree is any particular kind of achievement, if I had gained that knowledge entirely through self study I'd have the same level of achievement. A University degree is supposed to certify that you know all these things, but in reality it doesn't, it certifies that you sat in 4 years of classes, and you likely know all these things. I think the fact that so many careers require a degree, when that knowledge can be attained without ever setting foot in a university, is not right. I think it should be possible to gain all these qualifications through self study, without ever stepping inside the ivory tower. Fortunately, I think the world is moving in this direction. It's only a matter of time before universities lose their monopoly on knowledge, and recognizing talent.

As I see it, University is only a way of proving you're intelligent and skilled. Achievement requires you to use your intelligence and skills. It is only a beginning (among many, no more valid then most of the rest), not an end in and of itself.

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I suspect that as you get away from your class group and interact with more people from different walks of life and of different circumstances (people outside of engineering and other areas requiring good amounts of schooling), you'll come to understand and really appreciate that.
Yes, I'll probably realise I'm smarter then I think, or so my mother has spared no effort in reminding me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4 View Post
Of course. I was simply asking you to reconsider the two options you presented.


I never said it was good that playing in a band was more valued then knowing thermodynamics... It's just how things are!
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Old 2012-07-28, 11:03   Link #10582
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As a woman, I can pick on your comparison just a little bit. Band guy vs. guy with intelligence?

There are different types of women out there and I know ones who enjoy smoking a few splifs and talking about music and pointless shite and these would so go for the musicians. I am not saying these girls aren't intelligent since they had to do well to get this far in college but they are who they are. I go drinking and partying with them but it doesn't mean I do what they do. The ones with a bit of a brain who like intelligent conversation are more likely to be attracted to your kind of personality, negativity aside of course. ^.^ I am only taking this from my own view of the world and I think you need to give the opposite sex a little more credit than that. We are all different with varying ideals.

I think that we have to trudge through the slurry in wellies to find what we want, metaphorically speaking. The dating game is all about finding the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with. The next person could be her, you could date several people before finding her, it could take months or a few years but I like to believe that there is someone there for each of us.

As for myself. It is early days with my new relationship, so I am not running away with it. I am not even calling him my boyfriend yet. We want to take a few weeks to get used to the idea ourselves before making it official by telling other friends. Nothing has changed really in how we talk to each other and I think that is a good sign. I would rather we were friends first and lovers only second to that. I hope this is a realistic approach and I am not expecting too much. ^.^
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Old 2012-07-28, 13:08   Link #10583
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Yeah. For me there's also an aspect of "younger sibling syndrome", my older sister was always far more diligent then I am. On the flip side, her experiences somewhat colour mine, while she won't admit it, I think her schooling was a waste of time, she studied genetics, and graduated top of her class. Now she's working in graphic design (or at least trying to...), and as I see it, professionally she's no better off then if she had never gone to college at all.
I'm planning to concentrate in genetics. I guess I should keep my mouth shut for a while until I find an actual job that involves my specialty. Luckily, I plan to attend grad school. I'm hoping to meet a lot of potentials there

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Obviously, there's more to college then professional qualifications, but I think the "personal growth" aspects of university happen inside or outside college.
I think another aspect is that, living in a meritocratic society, failure is a lot harder to cope with. We have a view (at least in the western world) that a person's success and failures are due to their own qualities. If you do well, you're a good quality person, if you fail, you're bad quality. So when you succeed, it of course feels good, because you feel like "I'm a great person!", but when you fail it feels awful, because not only do you have to cope with the failure, but you also feel worthless as a human being.
When I decided to opt out of my initial college program and change majors I felt like a failure. Lots of outside pressures even reinforces that I really failed and should be frowned upon. I know some people lost respect for me even my own relatives. When you hear people actually call you "wishy washy" and other not so nice terms when your down it's definately hard to look forward. Even to this day it still bothers me, so I can't wait to graduate. The price for being known and starting off as a strong character in other people's eyes sure can give a good lashing.

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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
In older time, people tended to think things were "fated", which I think cushions you from life's failures, while helping you to take a more modest attitude towards success. When you fail, it's not your fault, and when you succeed, it was not just down to you. Of course, I don't think either is completely true, failure and success comes from a mix of factors you have greater or lesser degrees of control over.
Shhhh. If my mind realize it isn't fate then I don't know if I can live my modest life right now Sometimes I wonder why I'm not fated to have dates with certain people

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Originally Posted by Tigress View Post
As a woman, I can pick on your comparison just a little bit. Band guy vs. guy with intelligence?

There are different types of women out there and I know ones who enjoy smoking a few splifs and talking about music and pointless shite and these would so go for the musicians. I am not saying these girls aren't intelligent since they had to do well to get this far in college but they are who they are. I go drinking and partying with them but it doesn't mean I do what they do. The ones with a bit of a brain who like intelligent conversation are more likely to be attracted to your kind of personality, negativity aside of course. ^.^ I am only taking this from my own view of the world and I think you need to give the opposite sex a little more credit than that. We are all different with varying ideals.
lol Women to this day still puzzle me. I'll never figure them out. Taste is so variable in today's world.


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Originally Posted by Tigress View Post
As for myself. It is early days with my new relationship, so I am not running away with it. I am not even calling him my boyfriend yet. We want to take a few weeks to get used to the idea ourselves before making it official by telling other friends. Nothing has changed really in how we talk to each other and I think that is a good sign. I would rather we were friends first and lovers only second to that. I hope this is a realistic approach and I am not expecting too much. ^.^
I like this approach. I'll keep this in mind towards the future.
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Old 2012-07-28, 13:18   Link #10584
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
For me University education (at least for engineering) in itself is not an achievement because while it does require skill and intelligence, it does not require individual initiative (you can complete it without ever needing to think critically or for the most part creatively), and finally it's value is almost purely social, in that it's largely entirely an effort to gain a credential. Now that credential is supposed to mean something (IE you are supposed to have such and such knowledge), and gaining that knowledge is an achievement. So I do feel it is something of an achievement that I know all about thermodynamics, heat transfer, differential calculus etc. But I don't feel the fact I have a degree is any particular kind of achievement, if I had gained that knowledge entirely through self study I'd have the same level of achievement. A University degree is supposed to certify that you know all these things, but in reality it doesn't, it certifies that you sat in 4 years of classes, and you likely know all these things. I think the fact that so many careers require a degree, when that knowledge can be attained without ever setting foot in a university, is not right. I think it should be possible to gain all these qualifications through self study, without ever stepping inside the ivory tower. Fortunately, I think the world is moving in this direction. It's only a matter of time before universities lose their monopoly on knowledge, and recognizing talent.

As I see it, University is only a way of proving you're intelligent and skilled. Achievement requires you to use your intelligence and skills. It is only a beginning (among many, no more valid then most of the rest), not an end in and of itself.
One of my engineering professors said something to our class that I thought was kind of shocking (and depressing, at the time). He said that we were here to learn, but what we were being taught ultimately was not that important. After we had graduated and were hired for a job, we would learn what we needed to know to do the job, on the job. The knowledge we learned in class would give us familiarity, but it would not be the case that we would be ready for any job once we graduated.

So then, what were we spending time in all of those classes for? "To learn how to learn."

It sounds silly, because from age five or so you're already in school, moving along a standardized learning curriculum. Yet there's some truth in what my professor said, I think. I didn't begin to take full advantage of the resources available to me until near the end of college; I also don't feel that I really learned how to learn and think critically until graduate school. But everything builds off of itself. While it's possible that it really wasn't anything worthwhile, perhaps a few years from now you'll be able to look back and recognize the value of your time spent in college.

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Originally Posted by Tigress View Post
The dating game is all about finding the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with.
That assumes people are looking to find one person to spend the rest of their life with
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Old 2012-07-28, 15:15   Link #10585
Tigress
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post

That assumes people are looking to find one person to spend the rest of their life with
Well I'm a hopeless romantic ^.^
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Old 2012-07-28, 15:21   Link #10586
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by Tigress View Post
Well I'm a hopeless romantic ^.^
A lot of us are, some of us actually finds it.
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Old 2012-07-28, 15:57   Link #10587
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Knightrunner View Post
I'm planning to concentrate in genetics. I guess I should keep my mouth shut for a while until I find an actual job that involves my specialty. Luckily, I plan to attend grad school. I'm hoping to meet a lot of potentials there
I wouldn't worry about it, my sister chose to abandon genetics of her own volition. Turns out she found labwork intolerably boring. I guess she should have thought a bit more about what sort of work she'd end out doing before starting a 4 year course.
Quote:
When I decided to opt out of my initial college program and change majors I felt like a failure. Lots of outside pressures even reinforces that I really failed and should be frowned upon. I know some people lost respect for me even my own relatives. When you hear people actually call you "wishy washy" and other not so nice terms when your down it's definately hard to look forward. Even to this day it still bothers me, so I can't wait to graduate. The price for being known and starting off as a strong character in other people's eyes sure can give a good lashing.
I sympathise, I would have switched myself had it not been for my desire to finish as fast as possible, and also because I couldn't think of a less unpleasant major (though in hindsight, I probably would have enjoyed studying business, or maybe economics more)


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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
One of my engineering professors said something to our class that I thought was kind of shocking (and depressing, at the time). He said that we were here to learn, but what we were being taught ultimately was not that important. After we had graduated and were hired for a job, we would learn what we needed to know to do the job, on the job. The knowledge we learned in class would give us familiarity, but it would not be the case that we would be ready for any job once we graduated.

So then, what were we spending time in all of those classes for? "To learn how to learn."
I think the "learning to learn" argument is a copout. As children, we all have the ability to learn voracious amounts. At best, University arrests the degradation of our ability to learn, and even that I doubt. It's more a case that the average modern workplace, with it's repetitive inane tasks, is not conducive in helping people maintain their ability to acquire new knowledge and skills. I would maintain that the guy whose been flipping burgers a year out of university is just as bad at learning as the guy whose been flipping burgers for a year after high school.

However, it is impossible for a university to teach everything young engineers need to know starting on the job, as every job requires different skills. Instead they should endeavor to give a good foundation of knowledge and skills, which can easily be expanded upon, while also exposing them to all the jargon of the profession so that they can speak in the same language as professionals in the field (Engineers speak a language that only resembles English!). But certainly not only teaching to learn how to learn.

"Learning to learn" feels sentimental and trite. It's just an excuse for them to have low standards and not even try to stay up to date. If you're going to be in a place for 4 years (at large expense), you'd better hope to have learned a bit more then that!
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Old 2012-07-28, 18:16   Link #10588
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think the "learning to learn" argument is a copout. As children, we all have the ability to learn voracious amounts. At best, University arrests the degradation of our ability to learn, and even that I doubt. It's more a case that the average modern workplace, with it's repetitive inane tasks, is not conducive in helping people maintain their ability to acquire new knowledge and skills. I would maintain that the guy whose been flipping burgers a year out of university is just as bad at learning as the guy whose been flipping burgers for a year after high school.
I don't know about that. The university's sole goal is not "teaching how to learn," of course. You're being exposed to knowledge from various disciplines that you otherwise likely wouldn't experience (a fact and opportunity that many goal-driven students do not take advantage of), and you're receiving the fundamentals of the field that you'll be entering. But did you really know how to process information and apply it before the university setting?

It's possible that you did, if your schooling before the university level was intensive or focused in that manner. It's also possible that you didn't get it at the university, if you weren't exposed to the right mix of professors and scenarios. As I said before, in my own case I don't feel that I really got it until graduate school. The feeling that I get is that in America, the pre-college courses and activities that students participate in are rarely applied toward practical things, whereas in the university setting it becomes a bit more so. I'm under the impression that college today is a bit watered down compared to how it used to be, though.

Although I note that we're technically off-topic, I figured I'd mention it anyway.
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Old 2012-07-28, 19:42   Link #10589
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I don't know about that. The university's sole goal is not "teaching how to learn," of course. You're being exposed to knowledge from various disciplines that you otherwise likely wouldn't experience (a fact and opportunity that many goal-driven students do not take advantage of), and you're receiving the fundamentals of the field that you'll be entering. But did you really know how to process information and apply it before the university setting?
Yes, it's just how I am. I've always been able to excel in educational settings with minimal effort, to the envy of my peers. In terms of learning to process information and apply it, University didn't have anything to offer me. I could already go to any book, read it, and know most of the important salient points by the time I finished secondary school. In truth, I think the ability to do this is more a matter of maturity then time spent in education. You get better at separating the wheat from the chaff. I have certainly improved during my time in University, but none of this was due to anything the University required of me, and would have occurred regardless. Likewise, I already was fairly worldly at 18 (and continue to be), so University didn't really open me up to any new experiences (besides my exchange, which was an enlightening experience).

My main problem in University was that I didn't have the willpower to study diligently(unless I found the subject interesting, and presented interestingly). I would have preferred a university education that featured more collaborative problem solving and open inquiry, rather then what was a very passive experience that consisted of the Professors lecturing us, and us memorizing formulas and facts for exams. It does not help that professors tend to be a lot better at writing papers and conducting research then creating a quality learning environment. Any efforts to actively involve students were usually tokenistic or gimmicky at best, and it didn't help that students were also generally complicit in keeping things passive (as that is what they were all used to). It was less bad in the US, but still not great.

University was basically just like secondary school, but with worse teaching, larger classrooms, less class time, less direction and less time to digest material. The degree of isolation hit me particularly hard. In secondary school I had always tried to build good relationships with my teachers, and questioned them a lot. This was not possible in a class of 100+, made worse by my hearing snide remarks from other students directed at those who asked the professor questions. The American university I was in was better in this respect (with much less hostility towards questioning), but teaching quality was still mediocre compared to what I received in secondary school (which was admittedly better then most, as it was private).

I'm not against the idea of further education, but the way it's offered in Universities is rigid, obsolete, elitist and, worst of all, dull. I imagine that in the future Universities will go back to being focused on training future academics and researchers, as it should be. Not everyone want or need to be trained at a University.
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Although I note that we're technically off-topic, I figured I'd mention it anyway.
We have been for a while, I figure we may as well finish what we begin, since no moderator has interfered (yet!).
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Old 2012-07-30, 14:45   Link #10590
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Originally Posted by Tigress View Post
As for myself. It is early days with my new relationship, so I am not running away with it. I am not even calling him my boyfriend yet. We want to take a few weeks to get used to the idea ourselves before making it official by telling other friends. Nothing has changed really in how we talk to each other and I think that is a good sign. I would rather we were friends first and lovers only second to that. I hope this is a realistic approach and I am not expecting too much. ^.^
I'm glad to hear that. ... I think I didn't comment on your case, since everything of value has already been said then, but I'm glad it's going this route.
Being friends with your lover is one of the greatest things you can get if you ask me. Personally, I can't be with someone longterm if we can't be friends as well. There is no need to rush anything, take everything at your own pace
It's good you two are able to do this without ot being weird - since you two know each other for so long.

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Originally Posted by Knightrunner View Post
lol Women to this day still puzzle me. I'll never figure them out. Taste is so variable in today's world.
Men puzzle me all the time, even so they are more easy to understand Way simpler, still a mystery sometimes.
Granted, often it's just me ovethinking things, but that only goes for guys I'm dating
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Old 2012-07-30, 15:16   Link #10591
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Originally Posted by zebra View Post
Men puzzle me all the time, even so they are more easy to understand Way simpler, still a mystery sometimes.
Granted, often it's just me ovethinking things, but that only goes for guys I'm dating
Haha, can't speak for all men but people like me are hard to read because we have a complex personality. However we are the most predictable type as the way we think is really rigid and never changing. I think the most important way of understanding men is to not quickly give them a stereotype. The stereotypes come with a lot of features that aren't present in the person you put it on.

My ex-gf has goldfish memory and forget a lot of things. Sometimes she'd object to something I'd do and half those things I can convince her with reasoning. A few days later she'll complain about the same thing and I said 'I just told you a few days ago!'. Then I'd have to explain again except this time she says 'I don't get it, that doesn't make any sense!'.

I don't expect to ever figure 'women' out, I give up on that. All I want to at least understand my partner.
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Old 2012-07-30, 23:29   Link #10592
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Originally Posted by zebra View Post

Men puzzle me all the time, even so they are more easy to understand Way simpler, still a mystery sometimes.
Granted, often it's just me ovethinking things, but that only goes for guys I'm dating
I always like to keep my mystery aura, but I'm just to strait forward at times. lol It's definately harder to figure out your crush

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Haha, can't speak for all men but people like me are hard to read because we have a complex personality. However we are the most predictable type as the way we think is really rigid and never changing. I think the most important way of understanding men is to not quickly give them a stereotype. The stereotypes come with a lot of features that aren't present in the person you put it on..
The complexity and predictable part is so true. I'll definately keep note of the bold parts.

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I don't expect to ever figure 'women' out, I give up on that. All I want to at least understand my partner.
Amen to this.
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Old 2012-07-30, 23:59   Link #10593
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Well I'm a hopeless romantic ^.^
Many are... We're good in giving "love advices" but a coward in applying it ourselves..

From a person who never had a girlfriend since birth>>> Me..
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Old 2012-08-03, 18:28   Link #10594
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Originally Posted by zebra View Post
Men puzzle me all the time, even so they are more easy to understand Way simpler, still a mystery sometimes.
Granted, often it's just me ovethinking things, but that only goes for guys I'm dating
LoL we are not simple at all..... don't be so hard on us.....please maybe it is only me, but i consider my self a real hard to crack "egg" in terms of personality.
or ....correction it is only me.. in my vecinity lives a brother who is always thinking of three major things...money, car and girls. he is simple.
on the other hand i am a much more complex personality my happiness doesn't come from only these things.....i think i am defective or something cause i overcomplicate the simple things......but why???? i wanna be a social person, i wanna be loved by a cute girl, or more(but no harem please ladies :P -one at a time-), i want to be successful in a career that i like, i wanna do and learn so many new things that my life would not be enough for 20% of these things.

even now i have a lack of time.....i work, i have fun my way, i do what i do to make myself happy (no hentai thoughts here please.) and every day i got to bed at 1-2 am cause i don't have enough time to do it all..gimme an advice hoew to stop spending lots of money on stupid things? please.

and i feel like whatever i do the world is trying to reject my existence. i'm feeling so lonely. that at times my hearth aches and feel like shivers are running down my back and my chest tightens. it moves me to tears sometimes. but i'm a man so i suck it back up.

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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Many are... We're good in giving "love advices" but a coward in applying it ourselves..

From a person who never had a girlfriend since birth>>> Me..
Group hug Genji-chan.....i feel you... same here (this is also 1 reason why i think of myself as a defect product)

am i such a bad guy that i drive away anyone who approaches me?
am i meant to find true happiness in this life (shiver- heartache- tight chest combo)?? or i was meant to be alone ? (combo strikes again)
i tried to pick up literally hundreds of girls in the last decade, statistically speaking i should have had at least 1 girl.....but i didn't.

Recently i gave up a serious addiction of mine (WoW) and found out that not even this takes me out of my miserable life...don't worry i will not go back i put it off for good, but still when i think of my life as a whole, i sometimes get the feeling that it might have had been better if the ombilical cord wrapped around my neck at birth would have finished the job.
and thinking about it if i was the winner in the spermatozoid's race for the ovule, how could have the rest turned out???

anyway this way of thinking isn't getting me anywhere....i'm a total loser and i will always be.. i sometimes give off a puff of smoke called confidence but this goes away at the first breeze.....i'm sorry.. i'm a hypocrite.....i have no right to give anyone advice about love... as a failure of a man i should just resign to my fate.

my humblest apologies, i just don't have the will to fight for my happiness i'm giving up. all these years i fought, i clung to something that was not there... not even for a second....i ran i ran i ran after it countless times but never reached it...in my current situation i will not reach it ever.
i'd gladly fight for any other person's, but my own seems like a mirage in the desert....

anyway it is 2 am here so i will go to bed...let's see what tomorrow brings....i don't have my hopes up....
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Old 2012-08-04, 10:10   Link #10595
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
Group hug Genji-chan.....i feel you... same here (this is also 1 reason why i think of myself as a defect product)

am i such a bad guy that i drive away anyone who approaches me?
am i meant to find true happiness in this life (shiver- heartache- tight chest combo)?? or i was meant to be alone ? (combo strikes again)
i tried to pick up literally hundreds of girls in the last decade, statistically speaking i should have had at least 1 girl.....but i didn't.
Nobody is "meant" to be alone, or to be unhappy; nobody is "meant" to have the company of others, or to be happy. It's all about your perception, and what actions you take.

Don't try to inject statistics about dating. If you tried to pick up hundreds of girls and were never successful, it doesn't speak about you, it means that your approach wasn't working. You're a shy guy, did you ever think that perhaps when you're trying to ask a girl out on a date, you're not making your intent clear? Are you asking it in a manner that doesn't connect with others? Are you asking at the wrong place and time? There are many variables that can be adjusted here.

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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
anyway this way of thinking isn't getting me anywhere....i'm a total loser and i will always be.. i sometimes give off a puff of smoke called confidence but this goes away at the first breeze.....i'm sorry.. i'm a hypocrite.....i have no right to give anyone advice about love... as a failure of a man i should just resign to my fate.
Fate? There's a saying about this: "fate is what you are born with; destiny is what you make of it." It may not feel like it, but you're in total control.

There's another saying: "success belongs to those who were knocked down and got up just one more time." It's fine to take a break and regroup your thoughts and will to succeed after disappointments, but giving up?

Nobody can change themselves overnight. People can fake it, but to truly change yourself takes time and perseverance. It's unfortunate, but that's reality. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

Given the gloomy demeanor, I take it something bad happened to you. Would you care to discuss it?
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Old 2012-08-04, 16:30   Link #10596
csuree
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Romania, Oradea
Age: 26
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~edit: i just saw that under my age i am red.. i got negative reputation... very nice...the good guy gone bad... i deserve it~


well as i said it i am gloomy almost 100% of the time, but i give off always the atmoshphere that nothing had happened. in fact...

well i'm trying to write my novel and i was thinking it with injecting romance into it....and i want it to be sci-fi too but these too don't match....and when iget to some sad parts inevitably it pierces my soul...

"the bad thing that happened"???......the real problem is that nothing happened...absolutely nothing....i wish i could write this down in words....it is going to be hard but i will try.

the thing is that all started in grade school i think.....i tried to please my teacher i was a little nerd, but at least then i had friends.
in middle school i became addicted to sci-fi, astronomy, physics and all kinds of stuff that normal 12 year old kids don't get interested in. given my phisique (weak and skinny with glasses like harry potter) and because i was "unfortunate" to be smart enough to get in one of the most prestigious schools in town. Here i would say i was considered "poor" compared to the other kids whose parents were owning private companies or had been in politics etc. (you know the elite bunch of the city), my clothing was always old style, same with my haircut, i was a good kid but i got picked on, and embarrassed many times (they called me "mole-face" "rat-face" and many more insulting things). they also beat me up ..i was a pacifist (if i don't do anything eventually they will stop). i had a crush....they found it out and then they teased me even more....after a while the girls also started this. because no one stood out for me i got all lonely and cooped up retreating from social life to avoid those things. my parents also were strict and since they started building a house in a nearby village we did not have much money and time. every summer i was working at the construction and even during school in rare cases i went to a party....average 1 party/every 2 months with 3$ in my pocket and my mom said (don't spend it if u can). don't think my parents were all that great... they demanded to be top class student, to hepl them all the time, not to talk back ever and i got regular beating from them, mostly my dad, and in beating i say beating (to the point i got blue marks, or my bro wetted himself), even though they now always say that we were not bad kids. really i wasn't i tried to be diligent but they were never pleased
i wonder how i got through this living hell without killing myself.this left me with this enormous emotional "scar", i wasn't happy in school, i wasn't happy at home. the only place were i felt good was in between, when commuting or when i spent some days at granny's place.

in high school i stayed in the same school almost same classmates, and the new ones heard about my past and hell continued...i made 2 friends(shallow ones cuz nowadays they don't ask whether i live or not and when i want to meet up with them they don't have time etc). some girls were nice to me but probably out of pity. i helped my classmates every time i could. i even assisted at getting them hooked up. i always was the nice guy loser. at college at engineering it was mainly consisted of boys with very strong character so i put up a facede strong enough for them to leave me alone but weak enough to no t get close to anyone. darn my incompetence. and at my first workplace i met some good people but because of changes we drifted apart.

all these things made me the way i am. i should have had the courage to fight back every time i was oppressed by anyone, and then i would have been a more winner type.

my love life was defined of these traits so i only got rejection no matter how good i was. even the girls who were nice to me said (you are a good guy but i like you only as a friend) and when i heard this.. due to these drawback it was like a knife in the heart every time. i thought the good guys get the girl every time. due to this i started to become hostile towards everything and i think many times i am unconsciously hostile towards people. this i think is my def-mechaninsm.

i am knowledgeable in many many thing including love. i gave many of my "friends" good advice about women or to the girls i gave about men, but i myself was the one who couldn't get it all.

i got up so many times in my life that i think i am through with it...i might as well stay down and throw in the towel. i always took the blows that life threw at me, i handled them somehow but i think i just got fed up being a sandbag.
i wanna be a thunderous storm, i wanna rage, i wanna be happy for real, i wanna ...... i just wanna break down and cry...... i hate pretending to be strong.....i want to get spoiled, i want someone to take my by the arm, to cuddle up to me, to have a good conversation with,i want to take a stroll with a person i love from the heart, someone who i could say nice things, someone to embrace.
i just wish for happiness....no money, no career, just true emotional happiness.

and since this got long i might as well link in a spoiler tag a summary of my would be novel (it reflects my true feeling cuz i wrote it from the heart)

it does not have a perma title i thought it to title it "A Wish Under The Starry Sky"
and the sci-fi part i not in it yet.. but it will be later

Spoiler for summary:
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Old 2012-08-04, 17:06   Link #10597
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
well as i said it i am gloomy almost 100% of the time, but i give off always the atmoshphere that nothing had happened. in fact...
People will pick up on a gloomy demeanor, and many find it off-putting. More importantly, if you view yourself as someone who is gloomy, or if that's how you're actively feeling, that influences your interactions with others. You'll be less likely to engage others and keep them engaged.

Understand that this extends beyond putting on a show. You can trick others into thinking that you're a happy, confident guy, but you can't trick yourself. If you don't really have those traits, your behaviors and actions will reflect that. The good news is that you're not destined to be that way for the rest of your life. You are the way that you are because of your circumstances, but you can change yourself. As I said before, it's not a fast process.

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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
the thing is that all started in grade school i think.....
...
i wonder how i got through this living hell without killing myself.this left me with this enormous emotional "scar", i wasn't happy in school, i wasn't happy at home. the only place were i felt good was in between, when commuting or when i spent some days at granny's place.
It sounds like you've been through some challenging times. While all of those events and experiences contribute to shaping who you are, they don't define the person that you will be for the rest of your life. The good news is that your experiences are not totally unique: many people (including many of us here, I would imagine) had a hard time fitting in with our peers when we were younger, and many people (sadly, also including some of us here) have endured some form of abuse from people who were close to them. You can never erase those things, but you can move forward and away from them.

In light of your past, one thing that I might suggest would be to talk it over with someone, either a psychologist or psychiatrist. If you don't have easy access to one, you may be able to get a similar benefit by writing your thoughts in a journal. Write about and analyze the events of your past, and about your current situation. It may help you to realize some things, or to put some issues to rest. Again, the goal is to accept the things that happened, and move forward with your life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
all these things made me the way i am. i should have had the courage to fight back every time i was oppressed by anyone, and then i would have been a more winner type.
People with a winning attitude aren't winners because they always fought back. They're winners because they believed in themselves even in the face of opposition, and they didn't allow others to dissuade them from their goals and dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
i just wish for happiness....no money, no career, just true emotional happiness.
Happiness is a state of mind. You don't seem to have a very high opinion of yourself; are you perhaps thinking deep down that you're worthless and undeserving of happiness?

I briefly read over your story. One thing that I found interesting: you didn't name any of the characters.
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Old 2012-08-05, 03:08   Link #10598
csuree
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Romania, Oradea
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yeah you are right in many places there i understand your point in the matter.
happiness is indeed a state of mind but how can i make myself happy when every step i take reminds me of my past. should i move away from this country or is there another method to overcome this.

about the shrink. i don't find it appealing to go to one,even though i think it would help but given that my salary barely makes it to my next payday, this is almost dropped. thoguh i might try it in the not too distant future. (if until october i will not change..i definitely seek out pro help)

about my experiences i like to think that every man/woman is like a precious gem. our life shapes us to a jewel. but if the "shaping tools" are bad then even the diamond will be worthless. i think of myself as one failed gem at the moment, but i am also afraid that repairing these defects will cause me to lose some big chunks, and this will change me into a very different person.
my honest thoughts about this are that i am scared of the way i am now, i would want to only be more sociable more outgoing, i don't want to give up anything that defines me right now. (or maybe the way i am right now is the failed thing. i really don'know)
i don't want to self-analyze myself... i've done it a countless times and that only brings me down.

about the naming of the characters....i read somewhere that the names are very important in the story they should reflect the person's heart, and it is best to do some research in naming books, sites where the origin and the meaning of the name are written so i would not give a happy character a name that implies cruelty or insecurity, so until i have the main story-line thought out i will not give names yet,

overcoming emotional and psychological problems are very hard, i will try my best and if all else fails i will resort to professional help,
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Old 2012-08-05, 09:35   Link #10599
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
happiness is indeed a state of mind but how can i make myself happy when every step i take reminds me of my past. should i move away from this country or is there another method to overcome this.
Changing up your life can help, but as cliche as it may sound, running away generally isn't very effective when dealing with issues rooted in your psychology. Confronting them, working around them, and coming to accept them is best. These are things that may stay with you for your entire life and that there will be no true "cure" for, but that doesn't mean that you're stuck as you are. You can't change the past, but you can still change yourself, be successful, and be happy.

Because this has the potential to get into personal issues, I won't go much farther with advice or analysis. Just remember that these are issues that take time to resolve. Whether you seek professional help or whether you take the path of self-analysis, bear in mind that it can take months to years to overcome what's troubling you, but you can do it.

It is very much worthwhile to do. Aside from contributing to your own self-happiness, this is critical to deal with before entering a relationship. Advice was given to me that in order for a relationship to be successful, both members of the relationship should be capable of standing on their own, and I believe that. Once you're in a relationship both members will grow to utilize the others' strengths while covering for their weaknesses, but if you bring too many unresolved issues or weaknesses into the relationship with you, you risk utilizing the relationship as a crutch. The issues can cause additional stress to the relationship. This isn't to say that you need to be perfect before you should enter a relationship, but you should strive to be the best that you can be. A significant other has the potential to help you overcome your problems, but they also have the potential to make them much worse (and the same goes for you to their issues).
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Old 2012-08-06, 13:56   Link #10600
LeoXiao
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
Quote:
yeah you are right in many places there i understand your point in the matter.
happiness is indeed a state of mind but how can i make myself happy when every step i take reminds me of my past. should i move away from this country or is there another method to overcome this.
Don't focus on the bad things of the past. Think about when you were happy and remember that instead. Those past misfortunes are enemies that you don't need to know anything about; just crush them by improving yourself and your actions.
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