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Old 2009-08-03, 11:34   Link #1281
Neat Hedgehog
Hack of all trades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
But what if I'm not really trying to alienate or self-promote myself? Sorry, but i don't like being malignantly influenced or changed from my original form just because of a majority belief or pressure.
I honestly don't see anything particularly pompous or overly verbose about your manner of writing / speaking (assuming it carries over to your speech). It reminds me of how I usually talk to people. Frighteningly, I still encounter a lot of people at college who can't follow what I'm saying because they don't even know what the words I'm using mean. I even had people in my English class marking things "wrong" on my essays during the peer-review sessions just because they had no clue what the words meant.
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Old 2009-08-03, 11:43   Link #1282
stubby42
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK/Canada
Quote:
I'm not complaining about my lack of life experiences. In fact, if anything else, I have too much of it. And that's mainly because of my simple viewing it through this screen. (yeah, the media.) Call me pathetic, but I am currently only seeing mating as another form of entertainment: A work-oriented entertainment, I've just decided recently, I would not involve on.
First of all I never actually said anything about having sex, jonli told you to make the effort to talk to more people (actually make some friends) and to put yourself in different enviroments which will help you build your confidence (serriously meeting new people and picking up hobbies will help alot) but you straight up told us you werent interested in doing any of that because its too much effort.

You've out right said that you consider yourself to have no social standing, your not athletic and your not doing very well in school (which is supprising considering your grasp of language is quite strong) which doesnt exactly sound like your very happy with yourself.

The only way you'll get out of that rut is by putting in the effort to change yourself (if those are things you actually want to change, not everyones athletic, not everyone needs alot of friends and some people dont need a good education) but your not willing to do that because it sounds like hard work.

It sounds like your social skills arent that amazing at the moment (its something you can improve with time) and its not just going to hold you back from getting into relationships with other people, it'll hold you back in every aspect of your life.

Take a career for example, job interviews are based on your ability to impress people with your abilities but its a balancing act because you dont want to appear arrogant, you have to show that you can work independantly and work well in a team and be able to deal with difficult people (assuming its a job where you deal with people).

But thats just dealing with advertised jobs, the vast majority of jobs there are in the world arent advertised at all, you get them on the recomendation of aquintences so you need a big social network of contacts and the only way to get them is to make friends and go out to social events.

Thats something that takes alot of work to maintain and your not willing to do it.

Thats a hell of a bombshell, because were basically wasting our time and energy giving you advice because you'll turn around and yeah but its too hard.

Quote:
Ouch, that's a major low blow below the gutter. Frank, aren't you? And there I was hoping for some weird miracle.
I'm not trying to knock your confidence but when someone normally finds out someone likes them and that feeling is mutual they will make the effort to get ot know you better, you know talk to you and flirt with you. If shes not doing that then shes probably not interested.

Thats not saying you shouldnt ask her out because you need to get over that fear and recognise that the worst thing she can do is say no but you also have to learn to read signals.

Quote:
But what if I'm not really trying to alienate or self-promote myself? Sorry, but i don't like being malignantly influenced or changed from my original form just because of a majority belief or pressure.
It doesnt matter if that isnt your intention because thats how people read it, if you want to be intelligent be acedmically intelligent.

p.s the sorry was in the wrong place because I edited the post.
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Old 2009-08-03, 12:37   Link #1283
jonli
JONLIの憂'
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
I'm just wondering stubby42, I didn't read up on the previous pages, but what gender are you?

Just curious.

Another subject that came up recently with my friends. I was having a conversation about abusive husbands with my friends, to my surprise my female friends mentioned that a lot of boyfriends abuse their partners as well. I was shocked and wanted to know more, they didn't seem surprised about it and they claim that my male-friends and I would probably abuse our girlfriends at one point of our lives. I didn't take it in an offensive way because she didn't know that I'm already seeing someone, but It shocks me to see how these asian women think guys-beating-girls is a "default".

Really pains me.

How is the west like on this take?
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Old 2009-08-03, 12:52   Link #1284
stubby42
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK/Canada
jonli, I dont think I atcually stated what my sex was so dont worry about it, I'm a guy.

As for your female friends opinions on abuse, I dont really know what to say other that I'm shocked and appualed, I cant speak for every westerner but I think the general feeling is that this abuse is not ok and that a woman should leave her husband straight away and call the police.

I personally cant grasp why anyone would stay in an abusive relationship, it just doesnt compute the whole thing goes directly against what I beleive in (and I'm pretty sure most westerners would say the same thing).
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Old 2009-08-03, 20:17   Link #1285
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Does anyone have any techniques on building up courage regarding this topic? Well its not like I'm personally planning to proceed with mating but it seems amusing to try. howbeit there are "barriers" i have to adjust; apropos, motivation and the antiphon of its concern.
As was said before, self-confidence is key. This is important for any social dealing: in order to appear desirable to anyone, be it friends, co-workers, your boss, or a potential dating partner, you should appear confident. You don't want to go overboard and come off as being arrogant, but being sure of yourself and your values is the initial starter.

In light of one of your later posts (as well as a view that many social outcasts on this board may harbor), I should add that being sure of yourself does not mean putting down "popular culture" and viewing yourself as being above it. Rather, recognize that maybe you're not like everyone else, and respect the differences. To do otherwise would be seen as arrogance, if not remorse (lashing out at something because you're excluded by it - that makes you look like a loser, instead).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
In your case it doesn't sound like an overnight thing. Seems like you need to invest a lot of time not in getting the girl, but in boosting your confidence. This wouldn't happen in like a week, but like a year.
It can happen in a few weeks, actually. It did for me, at least. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and finally broke out of my shell by asking a girl out. Got rejected. But, knowing that I'd asked a girl out at all - that I was capable of it - was a big confidence booster. Sure, in hindsight it wasn't a huge deal, but taking that first step is big. To be perfectly honest I can't say that the second or third times were much easier, but at least they were met with positive responses and paid off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
Well I say up your social standing. Talk to more people, not just the girl. Try to get yourself more comfortable around other people.
This is good advice. Even if you're a lone wolf type of person, you should be aware that you do gain strength (even if only in the back of your mind) from being acknowledged by others. It's almost a sign of respect. To be unable to walk down the hall without being stopped at least five times by different people who want to say hi and chat briefly with you feels good. Really good. And I'm saying that as someone who was largely a lone wolf all throughout grade school.

It's an ego booster. When you're all on your own it's all too easy to wonder if maybe you're not worth anything or if nobody cares about you. To have tons of people greeting you and conversing with you at random - because they want to - tells you that you're interesting to these people, there's something about you that these people like. Perhaps you always knew your own worth, but now you're seeing it displayed right in front of you with each and every interaction. It's quite valuable. You won't die without it, nor will you be a pathetic loser without it, but it helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
The asshole way to do it is to flirt with another girl and use her as practice. Don't go the asshole way because you lose dignity and honor. But i felt like mentioning it just in case.
Woops, I thought that was just being a hormonal guy ;P

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
Another subject that came up recently with my friends. I was having a conversation about abusive husbands with my friends, to my surprise my female friends mentioned that a lot of boyfriends abuse their partners as well. I was shocked and wanted to know more, they didn't seem surprised about it and they claim that my male-friends and I would probably abuse our girlfriends at one point of our lives. I didn't take it in an offensive way because she didn't know that I'm already seeing someone, but It shocks me to see how these asian women think guys-beating-girls is a "default".

Really pains me.

How is the west like on this take?
Society at large regards that to be domestic violence/abuse and does not accept it. Regardless, it still happens, and women in such situations seemingly do not immediately leave the relationship (if they end up leaving it at all). I wouldn't say that people expect it, but perhaps it's tolerated more than you'd think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
I personally cant grasp why anyone would stay in an abusive relationship, it just doesnt compute the whole thing goes directly against what I beleive in (and I'm pretty sure most westerners would say the same thing).
First girl I dated told me about how she was in an abusive relationship, and stayed in it for about a year or two even after recognizing it as being a bad relationship. I had always figured that the majority of people who stay in a bad relationship for a long period of time do so because they don't recognize it as being bad, and they leave once they recognize that it's bad. That's what I'd do (and did), anyway. I asked her why she'd stayed in it. The reason was that she didn't want to be single.

I don't know why she didn't want to be single. For social reasons? Because being single was painful for her? I can't say that I was totally content with that answer, either. I mean, even if you don't want to be single, surely you'd recognize that as long as you were in the bad relationship, you wouldn't be able to get into a better one? Either way, I'd guess that she wasn't unique in having felt that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
I'm not complaining about my lack of life experiences. In fact, if anything else, I have too much of it. And that's mainly because of my simple viewing it through this screen. (yeah, the media.) Call me pathetic, but I am currently only seeing mating as another form of entertainment: A work-oriented entertainment, I've just decided recently, I would not involve on.
While viewing things as a spectator certainly counts toward a certain type of experience, the experience of actually going out and doing is quite different.

You're far ahead of your peers and many men in general in recognizing that dating (or "mating" as you're calling it) is work. It can be a lot of work or a little work, depending on how much you want to put in and depending on your inherent compatibility with your partner, but there's going to be work involved no matter what.

What you're not recognizing is that, in spite of the work, it can be very rewarding. I'm not just talking about the physical pleasures of it. It's knowing that someone is very special to you, and that you're just as special to them. Being able to depend on them in a way that you can't depend on others, and having that trust returned to you. It's nasty when a relationship splinters apart, but as the saying goes, you can't bake a cake without cracking a few eggs (or in this case, a few hearts - possibly including your own).

But that's fine. According to your reported AnimeSuki age, you're young. You'll experience a lot and, like it or not, you'll change a lot in the coming years. You probably won't feel the way that you do now, forever. Do what makes you happy.
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Old 2009-08-03, 23:38   Link #1286
Cipher
.....
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
First of all I never actually said anything about having sex, jonli told you to make the effort to talk to more people (actually make some friends) and to put yourself in different enviroments which will help you build your confidence (serriously meeting new people and picking up hobbies will help alot) but you straight up told us you werent interested in doing any of that because its too much effort.
That pretty much proves my selfish attitude right? And no, the "entertainment" wasn't sex, it was the "enjoyment of being with an admired person". Well, the truth is I'm quite satisfied with my confidence and if it looks like all of your effort on advising me were put to waste, I can tell you its not. It will serve as valuable information to me and anyone else reading when we're finally feeling like we should proceed with mating. Thank you.

Quote:
You've out right said that you consider yourself to have no social standing, your not athletic and your not doing very well in school (which is supprising considering your grasp of language is quite strong) which doesnt exactly sound like your very happy with yourself
"I'm not very happy with myself." That thought has never occurred to me. Its aberrant but I've abidingly accepted myself, low or high. Do you see this as a problem? If it is, then please let me hear your words of wisdom.

Quote:
The only way you'll get out of that rut is by putting in the effort to change yourself (if those are things you actually want to change, not everyones athletic, not everyone needs alot of friends and some people dont need a good education) but your not willing to do that because it sounds like hard work.
Yes but not just because it takes work but also because its importance is not much valued by me. Therefore, I'm lacking motivation.




Quote:
It sounds like your social skills arent that amazing at the moment (its something you can improve with time) and its not just going to hold you back from getting into relationships with other people, it'll hold you back in every aspect of your life.Take a career for example, job interviews are based on your ability to impress people with your abilities but its a balancing act because you dont want to appear arrogant, you have to show that you can work independantly and work well in a team and be able to deal with difficult people (assuming its a job where you deal with people).But thats just dealing with advertised jobs, the vast majority of jobs there are in the world arent advertised at all, you get them on the recomendation of aquintences so you need a big social network of contacts and the only way to get them is to make friends and go out to social events.
Interesting. But its not like I hold 0 confidence or social skills. I still have my doubts but I'll let time guide me.

Quote:
Thats something that takes alot of work to maintain and your not willing to do it.

Thats a hell of a bombshell, because were basically wasting our time and energy giving you advice because you'll turn around and yeah but its too hard.
Forgive me if i made you view it that way. Again, your advices will do me, and perhaps others, a great favor.

Quote:
I'm not trying to knock your confidence but when someone normally finds out someone likes them and that feeling is mutual they will make the effort to get ot know you better, you know talk to you and flirt with you. If shes not doing that then shes probably not interested.

Thats not saying you shouldnt ask her out because you need to get over that fear and recognise that the worst thing she can do is say no but you also have to learn to read signals.
I've slowly been accepting our "Beauty and the Beast" situation and its not very important to me now. I mean, like I said, this was a past scarring situation.
Quote:
It doesnt matter if that isnt your intention because thats how people read it, if you want to be intelligent be acedmically intelligent.
I know I'm intelligent but do I really need to prove it? (wow, i've just realized something peculiar about myself). I use to value others' acceptance and view of me but, i'm not sure what happened, but it doesn't seem worthy anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
Another subject that came up recently with my friends. I was having a conversation about abusive husbands with my friends, to my surprise my female friends mentioned that a lot of boyfriends abuse their partners as well. I was shocked and wanted to know more, they didn't seem surprised about it and they claim that my male-friends and I would probably abuse our girlfriends at one point of our lives. I didn't take it in an offensive way because she didn't know that I'm already seeing someone, but It shocks me to see how these asian women think guys-beating-girls is a "default".
The world is born unfair. Those women have accepted and not mind and not even see the "wrong" within their position. Would it still be wrong or right? Perhaps, its best to just accept the difference between cultures no matter how it conflicts with one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
In light of one of your later posts (as well as a view that many social outcasts on this board may harbor), I should add that being sure of yourself does not mean putting down "popular culture" and viewing yourself as being above it. Rather, recognize that maybe you're not like everyone else, and respect the differences. To do otherwise would be seen as arrogance, if not remorse (lashing out at something because you're excluded by it - that makes you look like a loser, instead).
Recognize the differences? I think I've already automatically inputted this into my system when I started talking for the sake of befriending. It's like an instinct which tells me that it would makes things easier.
Quote:
It can happen in a few weeks, actually. It did for me, at least. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and finally broke out of my shell by asking a girl out. Got rejected. But, knowing that I'd asked a girl out at all - that I was capable of it - was a big confidence booster. Sure, in hindsight it wasn't a huge deal, but taking that first step is big. To be perfectly honest I can't say that the second or third times were much easier, but at least they were met with positive responses and paid off.
It seems like a great refreshing experience. How much do you value mating relationships?
Quote:
I don't know why she didn't want to be single. For social reasons? Because being single was painful for her? I can't say that I was totally content with that answer, either. I mean, even if you don't want to be single, surely you'd recognize that as long as you were in the bad relationship, you wouldn't be able to get into a better one? Either way, I'd guess that she wasn't unique in having felt that way.
Could that be the side effect? Would you accept the term "addiction" relating this?
Quote:
What you're not recognizing is that, in spite of the work, it can be very rewarding. I'm not just talking about the physical pleasures of it. It's knowing that someone is very special to you, and that you're just as special to them. Being able to depend on them in a way that you can't depend on others, and having that trust returned to you. It's nasty when a relationship splinters apart, but as the saying goes, you can't bake a cake without cracking a few eggs (or in this case, a few hearts - possibly including your own).
yes, that THAT type of entertainment. It's a good experience but, from what I've just read right now, its seems dangerous in a druggy type of way.
Quote:
But that's fine. According to your reported AnimeSuki age, you're young. You'll experience a lot and, like it or not, you'll change a lot in the coming years. You probably won't feel the way that you do now, forever. Do what makes you happy.
Thank you for the "you're young" part, its a good stress reliever. A question: do drugs make me happy?
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Old 2009-08-04, 01:26   Link #1287
jonli
JONLIの憂'
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Cipher, maybe it would help a bit if you give us a bit of a background check on yourself.

You're 16. Are you American? What kind of society are you in? Mostly afro-american? Mostly caucasian? Mostly american-asian? Fair mix?

What kind of appearance do you have? Are you overweight? Too skinny? A little image change can serve as a quick confidence booster.

At your age it's harder to value "mating" as commercial and business like as you do. Mainly because many kids your age have a very little or never had any sexual experience. Sex is still very fresh and personal for them. It'll be hard to get under their pants if you treat sex like it's a game at your age.

Where as when you're in adulthood sex can be more casual because it's no longer a "new" experience for the general population.
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Last edited by jonli; 2009-08-04 at 01:36.
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Old 2009-08-04, 06:17   Link #1288
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Talking I put on my debate cape and hat....

Ah Ledgem, I'm gonna be jumping on the novella bandwagon too I'm afraid, lol.
My main angle was to answer jonli's question about inter-racial dating, which after reading the replies from stubby42 and blue skies, I felt compelled to grab my debate hat and get into the game for a while.
Pardon me for backtracking some, I barely get time to breathe, let alone spend some hours typing and reading here. I’ve noticed that it’s gone to some notes for Cipher on his end.
(16 and in American HS? Just focus on grades, networking and making friends then get the hell out)
Use the time to build confidence and understand who you are as a person, and then others will see that in your good points and qualities.
Be good to yourself and others will be good to you.
Q Do drugs make you happy?
Well how about I throw that question at you, you think for a good while and come back and tell us what you think?


As for the original question;
What do we think about inter-racial relationships?
Why do Asian guys "seem" less appealing?
If there have been any problems, how did we over come them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42
Your suggesting that theirs actually something to think about?

If two people love each other they'll adapt to each others differences.
Yes there is, the fact you can say that nonchalantly and reading the rest of your replies since then, means you're either a very lucky person to have a family/society that's so open or you're not aware of what it's like on the other side of those who do have to take race into consideration.
Not saying that it means we refuse flat out to date someone outside of our race but it can make life a hell of a lot harder, I believe Ledgem and Samari are two guys who're aware of what 'potential' problems could occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Skies
Race is totally insignificant, it doesn't define you and it has nothing to do with the kind of person you are. There's infinitely more to a person than just their race. I'm not saying it's that way for everyone, because obviously (unfortunately) it's not.
Before I get to the 'Asian' aspect, will toss in my 2 pence on the 'race' deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledgem
Yes, dealing with the other's family is an important aspect to consider. As someone once told me, when you're marrying a person, you're not just marrying them, but their entire family.
Think of the movie 'Godfather'
You mess with me, you're messing with my family

Race in itself, can be simplified down to the colour of our skin. For that, attraction works on various ways. Some people may just like dating in their own race; others may feel attracted to various races. As long as there's respect for those of all races and diversities, then each person is entitled to their preference of physical appearance. It doesn't make them racist or small minded.
Now next level, the colour of our skin is part of our ID, which gives out an instant 'profile glance' of who we are when we meet people in the street or pass by strangers.
Brown skin -> black person -> could be born in the West, ethnicity will be that of African or Caribbean - > culture may be related to that -> high chances of being a Christian -> may have traits of such and such…

And so on, we always, always make quick judgments on people everyday just to get by in life, since we cross by and interact with so many humans. (well I speak as a city slicker)
So seeing the race of someone usually ties in with their culture and possible tendencies, which then you may tie in with your own background and traits.
Of course until you get to know the person and their family, your information is purely circumstantial and flimsy but it helps us to mentally filter what we look for in partners and what may work well to compliment a person.
In that sense Blue skies, race does define you on a very basic, basic level.
After all, it is the outer layer together with the rest of your genetic information that physically embodies who you are as a human being.
When all we can see are bodies before a soul/personality/mentality, it's all we have to go on, therefore it represents you.

So it's not just a case of 'she's black, he's white, it doesn’t matter' - if family members are totally foreign to the culture, lifestyle and mentality of your spouses’ family, truuuuuust me, there's gonna be problems and then it becomes a hell of a lot of hard work to be happy in your relationship when your immediate relatives are giving you such a hard time.
Like I said, it depends on your own backgrounds and relatives. What I've noticed being a tiny ass minority in the UK is that typically white families are more open to inter racial relationships and like learning about the cultures of their son/daughter in laws.
Black, Asian, Hispanic, Indian/Pakistani families are a little trickier, heh.
At present, I'm still seeing this through the relationships of a few people who are close to me and it's kinda tragic to see, but it very much plays a factor in their lives outside of the person they love.

Those who aren't close with their family and are free to marry/love whoever they like don't realise how truly blessed they are with that freedom, rather, they probably see it as a right and anything else is absurd.
The world doesn't work like that.
Those like Ledgem may have to work at building good relations with his fiancées family as two cultures mix due to his relationship, for most part, it seems things are okay on his end.
For Samari, he's in a similar situation as one I often have to consider, he needs to take it slowly and give it time but his family aren't so welcome with his current partner.
And so on; to some of us having family members disagree with something as personal and precious as the person you love is truly heartbreaking and mortifying.
It requires a serious amount of strength and courage to go against the people who do love but don't understand how you feel or can't accept it.
Because of that, sometimes some people won't date outside of their race. Not to say they hate or despite other races, but just that they won't follow freely wherever their attraction leads them given their life circumstances.
To some people that seems ridiculous and absurd.
To many others, that's just simply life and an additional challenge they need to face for their personal happiness.

So two people love each other and accept each others differences.
Sometimes stubby42 those differences are too great to overcome. Sometimes the couple gets used to each other and work towards harmony but their families cannot and thus causes a massive strain on their own relationship.
Life isn't so black and white and attraction knows no boundaries, just preferences.
You simply may be attracted to those of your own race/culture, or you may be attracted to all kinds of people, it depends on the individual, but it does matter.

As for Asian males, well Ledgem kinda touched a lot on the psychology aspect of it and the traits and stereotypes typically associated with Asian women and men.
Quote:
Part of it had to do with the expectations of males from different cultures. In the traditional Asian cultures, the male was extremely domineering over the female. In the westernized cultures (at least some) there's a greater level of equality. Females exposed to the westernized lifestyle don't want to return to the traditional gender roles when at home. Hence, Asian males - whether the male individual harbors those expectations or not - represent a link to that gender inequality, and thus are undesirable. On the other hand, Asian females are extremely desirable to practically everyone else because they're stereotyped as being very well-mannered, and it seems to me that there's currently a trend in society where Asian features are seen as being very attractive.
I've heard from a lot of Japanese girls that the appeal for white guys during their uni years is cause of the idea that they do know how to treat a women well. How to give them attention, make them feel special, show them affection openly in ways that according to them Japanese men can't do so well. They're not attracted to timid, shy types per se, they also have their 'vision' of a prince charming.
Perhaps why a lot of these relationships last while they're students just gives them a time in their life as a "chance to experiment", but would never marry.
For the white guy/Asian women stereotype, it does seems to typically be this weird idea that white guys will typically have more success with Asian races cause they're smaller, more docile, "tamed" and obedient and ''cute'. More a trend, fascination associated with their hobbies related to that culture?
Perhaps.
Me personally, my unappealing factor towards Asian guys (well guys in general) is physique. I like the idea of having a guy taller than me, built slightly bigger than me, stronger than me, but there are a lot of slender Asian guys with body weight almost the same as mine, I'm simply not attracted to slender 'boy ish' types I'm afraid.
Naturally any Japanese guy I see around Tokyo whose physique kinda begins to fall into the above category I mentioned which sparks my attention does get a glance over from me, so in that case it isn't purely race limited, but that may be a consideration to it from a girl’s perspective.
I am only one girl though; I know plenty who are into that slender, young boy'ish look, thus have great appeal and attraction to Asian men.
To each their own, but naturally it comes down to how you wanna sell yourself and utilize your own advantages and good points Jonli. When those shine and girls can see it, your race won't really matter much, so don't worry so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
As for your female friends opinions on abuse, I dont really know what to say other that I'm shocked and appualed, I cant speak for every westerner but I think the general feeling is that this abuse is not ok and that a woman should leave her husband straight away and call the police.

I personally cant grasp why anyone would stay in an abusive relationship, it just doesnt compute the whole thing goes directly against what I beleive in (and I'm pretty sure most westerners would say the same thing).
Entrapment.
Fear.
Can’t see an alternative.

Better the devil you know than the stranger you don’t.
Some people cannot stand being alone.
9/10, the person being abused has lost their self worth as a human being and sadly thinks that the abuse relationship is as good as they’d every get. Some believe the crap their abusive spouses inflict on them.

Again it relies on strength, courage and external support sometimes to leave an abusive relationship. If external family or children are involved, then the situation becomes even more trickier.

I’m just listing a few out of many many reasons, examples and stories I could link you. The logic and concepts are simple enough, no one wants to be abused in such a way. But carrying them out... for some reason isn’t a clean, cut simple deal more times than not, but again, life isn’t so simple.

I know I keep on repeating that as a broken record, but sometimes I read some posts here with a very "yes/no", definite tone to it as a view for a general case, so while I can understand that as applied to your personal situation, it makes me wonder if people have ever considered the flip-side of the coin or can they even imagine it?

Hence why sometimes I deliberately take the opposite stance for a little controversy and try to give a viewpoint from the other side, just to make people take some time out and think outside of their own thoughts.
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Old 2009-08-04, 19:34   Link #1289
Ledgem
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Well, Mystique put me to shame. What can I say - I'm out of practice. I'll write a fair bit and feel "winded," think to myself "this post is probably five pages by now - I'd better stop" and - wow, it's short! (Sidetracked...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Recognize the differences? I think I've already automatically inputted this into my system when I started talking for the sake of befriending. It's like an instinct which tells me that it would makes things easier.
I don't say this to be condescending - understand that I'm coming from a medical environment where neuroscience research (including autism) is big stuff, albeit not my research area, but - have you ever considered getting tested for autism spectrum disorder? Autistism manifests in a variety of ways. The fact that you're here on this forum, conversing with us, proves that you're what would be called "high functioning." Yet if you truly don't take much of an interest in interacting with other people (which is the message I'm getting from you), perhaps you have Asperger's or something related. Getting tested for it would be more informative than not, I suppose. Having it and being high-functioning doesn't mean you need to undergo treatment, but I'd think it'd be rather informative. It'd at least let you realize why many people seem to feel one way while you feel differently... that sort of thing.

Or, it's possible that you've just been a lone wolf type for a while and have yet to experience truly rewarding relationships. As I've mentioned before, I don't think I was too far off from where you are now, back when I was in high school. Grade school in general was a pretty miserable place. There may be changes in the future later on... you'll find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
It seems like a great refreshing experience. How much do you value mating relationships?
That's a strange question to ask, but I'll tell you: like nearly all things in life, it's relative. People who aren't in a relationship desperately want to be in one; people who are in a relationship can very easily take it for granted. At this point I've been in a relationship for long enough that my view of being single is probably warped. That is, when I think of being single I may remember the perks of it and easily forget the difficulties.

If I were to become single tomorrow, I don't know how I'd feel. In some ways, I'd feel more free; that's a given. Yet in many other ways, things would become more difficult. There's no way to say it without sounding cheesy or forced, but the best I can say is that, it would be very difficult to return to a life without her, remembering what life was like with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Could that be the side effect? Would you accept the term "addiction" relating this?
You don't need to put it in quotes - addiction does come into play. People don't think of it that way, but in terms of how the brain behaves, your partner ("mate") is very similar to a drug addiction.

However, the statement that you made that response into - it's unlikely that the addiction aspect came into play there. The girl I'm talking about seemed... well, perhaps in hindsight I can say that she cared a lot about aesthetics. For many girls, they feel that they'll be seen as losers/undesirables unless they're dating someone. I think that was probably the case with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
yes, that THAT type of entertainment. It's a good experience but, from what I've just read right now, its seems dangerous in a druggy type of way.
Anything can be dangerous. A relationship where you're not actively tending to your own interests can be quite dangerous, indeed. After all, you're allowing someone into your life, and giving them extreme trust. If the love and trust aren't mutual, you may be emotionally destroyed, and you may have other areas of your life destroyed, as well. Of course it's dangerous.

Yet, I wouldn't make a comparison to drugs, because what you can get out of drugs vs. a healthy relationship is simply incomparable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Thank you for the "you're young" part, its a good stress reliever. A question: do drugs make me happy?
I've never done drugs, so I can't say. However, based off of what I do know, drugs may provide an initial happiness and temporary bits of happiness thereafter, but they come at a heavy toll on nearly all (if not all) other areas of your life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Those like Ledgem may have to work at building good relations with his fiancées family as two cultures mix due to his relationship, for most part, it seems things are okay on his end.
For Samari, he's in a similar situation as one I often have to consider, he needs to take it slowly and give it time but his family aren't so welcome with his current partner.
And so on; to some of us having family members disagree with something as personal and precious as the person you love is truly heartbreaking and mortifying.
It requires a serious amount of strength and courage to go against the people who do love but don't understand how you feel or can't accept it.
Yeah, I was lucky. I haven't gotten away 100% free, but the generation before my (and my fiancee's) parents was not accepting of interracial dating at all. And again, the two cultures (Judaism and Chinese), external appearences aside, are probably two of the most compatible in terms of (stereotypical) values. I believe both sides of the family understood that, as well, and it made the acceptance a bit easier. Were I or my fiancee black or hispanic (among others), it's very likely that the acceptance would have been much more difficult to achieve, on either side of the family.

Also, even if you're not that close to your own family and don't mind the thought of being ostracized (whether by your own family and/or your partner's), there are some other factors to consider. Is your partner willing to do all of that, too? If and when you have children, will you really be OK with having your children grow up with those sorts of hostilities? All of those things can put a strain on you and (perhaps more importantly) your partner, which can make the relationship weaker. Facing those challenges from the start really weighs down on a relationship. I don't think that many people dream of a relationship that turns the world against them. Rather, almost everyone visualizes the "fairy tale" relationship, where everyone is happy and accepting.
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Old 2009-08-05, 02:09   Link #1290
Jazzrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoto View Post
You're giving yourself too much ****. Your low on the hotness scale because you put yourself there. Everyone has negative physical traits, and stereotypes working against them. It doesn't mean you have to be effect by them though.

Cultural differences, are a different thing lol
I'm just stating the stereotype/generalization of asian guys
I'm sure there's plenty of asian studs out there that defies the tag.

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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Ouch, that's a major low blow below the gutter. Frank, aren't you? And there I was hoping for some weird miracle.
Don't wait for miracles to happen. Just do it . If a girl doesn't seem interested in you then you haven't done enough to warrant her interest.

Quote:
(16 and in American HS? Just focus on grades, networking and making friends then get the hell out)
That's a bloody waste imo. While i don't know what American HS is like but you're 16... that's where all the puppy/innocent love romance starts no? Atleast mine was like a cheesy shoujo/shounen romance manga.
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Old 2009-08-05, 02:52   Link #1291
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Miko Miko View Post
^ Must be about 20 years older.. maybe a little more.

I don't want any trouble and I am aware of the law..
but if anyone here is quite old (not being rude!!!) would you want a 15 year old girl telling you she had a crush on you, what would your reaction be?

x
The real question is, what does your mom think?

I'm a 22 year old guy who has a photographer-cosplayer relationship with some 16 year old girls (legal in Canada as long as you aren't in a position of trust), all of whom I think are cute. Their mom would make them a no go zone even if I didn't prefer university students over high schoolers in general.

And that's only with a six year gap. If I was 20 years older... yeah I don't think I'd be willing to go for it.
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Old 2009-08-05, 07:39   Link #1292
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique
Pardon me for backtracking some, I barely get time to breathe, let alone spend some hours typing and reading here. I’ve noticed that it’s gone to some notes for Cipher on his end.
(16 and in American HS? Just focus on grades, networking and making friends then get the hell out)
Use the time to build confidence and understand who you are as a person, and then others will see that in your good points and qualities.
Be good to yourself and others will be good to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
That's a bloody waste imo. While i don't know what American HS is like but you're 16... that's where all the puppy/innocent love romance starts no? Atleast mine was like a cheesy shoujo/shounen romance manga.
At least quote me in reference, rather than out if you wanna make a point.
That was my advice to Cipher, given the tone and negativity of his replies lately.
Methinks he needs more focus on himself and building his own self esteem so he has somewhat of a foundation with communciation and platonic relationships when he goes to uni.
High school is just a stage where you're interacting with people at their most unstable, immature, irrational and whimsical. If a person can ride that wave of hormone madness and youth chaos then great, however if a person is by the sideline of it, then use the environment to benefit you in other ways before pursuing romantic interests.

Least for me, when I was done with HS at 16, going into 6th form was like a new 'mature' and calmer world.
Another clean slate and chance to make new mates and perhaps more, so sometimes that helps with your own motivation to pursue something

PS:
*laughs* Whoever left me the comment bout my avvy being annoying, at least sign the comment with your name or drop a note on my profile. xD
But 'thanks' for the point
MJ will stay for a whee while since Aug is a special month in relation to him, so I'm afraid you'll be annoyed for a lil while longer~
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Old 2009-08-05, 09:58   Link #1293
Cipher
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I don't say this to be condescending - understand that I'm coming from a medical environment where neuroscience research (including autism) is big stuff, albeit not my research area, but - have you ever considered getting tested for autism spectrum disorder? Autistism manifests in a variety of ways. The fact that you're here on this forum, conversing with us, proves that you're what would be called "high functioning." Yet if you truly don't take much of an interest in interacting with other people (which is the message I'm getting from you), perhaps you have Asperger's or something related. Getting tested for it would be more informative than not, I suppose. Having it and being high-functioning doesn't mean you need to undergo treatment, but I'd think it'd be rather informative. It'd at least let you realize why many people seem to feel one way while you feel differently... that sort of thing.
First of all, Thank you. I did feel intermittently that there might be something neurologically wrong with me. My prioritizing measures are showing to be abnormal at times. I will try to confirm this with a doctor.
Quote:
Or, it's possible that you've just been a lone wolf type for a while and have yet to experience truly rewarding relationships. As I've mentioned before, I don't think I was too far off from where you are now, back when I was in high school. Grade school in general was a pretty miserable place. There may be changes in the future later on... you'll find out.
I am not a very sociable person at school but "lone wolf" is just an over description. As many people plainly know, schools are boring. To counter that boredom, social interaction was in order but it was/is really better described as "automatic": more of a sensual feeling than a thought. But I'll be honest, I did experience the "lone wolf" status about a year ago. It was awfully abashed, concerning, arid, yawny and comfortless...but nonetheless, an experienced I have grown and learned from.
Quote:
That's a strange question to ask, but I'll tell you: like nearly all things in life, it's relative. People who aren't in a relationship desperately want to be in one; people who are in a relationship can very easily take it for granted.
What about people who aren't in a relationship but does not mind it? There are several of those in the world no? Surely there are...unless...I truly am mentally disabled.
Quote:
For many girls, they feel that they'll be seen as losers/undesirables unless they're dating someone.
That's very...illogical. Do you have the answer to as to why? or how?
Quote:
Yet, I wouldn't make a comparison to drugs, because what you can get out of drugs vs. a healthy relationship is simply incomparable.
True but my active use of the word, drug, was for the soft illumination of its relation with addiction, notwithstanding, considering their differences, it might be insignificant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
(16 and in American HS? Just focus on grades, networking and making friends then get the hell out)
Use the time to build confidence and understand who you are as a person, and then others will see that in your good points and qualities.
Be good to yourself and others will be good to you.
I see. Recently, due to the change in environment, mating felt a little important. But enough of that, mollifying my own mental and physical situation leads.
Quote:
PS:
*laughs* Whoever left me the comment bout my avvy being annoying, at least sign the comment with your name or drop a note on my profile. xD
But 'thanks' for the point
MJ will stay for a whee while since Aug is a special month in relation to him, so I'm afraid you'll be annoyed for a lil while longer~
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I confess, I'm the culprit. Not leaving a sign or a note and adding a point to your rep was out of fear of a negative reaction. The desire to express the agony and torment of having to stupidly and yet addictive-ly audience Michael Jackson's repetitive, very patterned, and gesticulating motion, an experience I would not want you to let others experience, became direly cumbersome to not express.
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Old 2009-08-05, 18:49   Link #1294
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
First of all, Thank you. I did feel intermittently that there might be something neurologically wrong with me. My prioritizing measures are showing to be abnormal at times. I will try to confirm this with a doctor.
You may want to check with a psychiatrist, if possible. Pediatricians and possibly general practitioners aren't very effectively able to pick up on psychological conditions, according to surveys and such. You may want to ask your doctor for a referral, or see if he can read up on it a bit and find out the methodology of testing.

Thanks to some of my fiancee's clinical research on autism, I know some of the diagnostic procedures for young children. I'm not aware of the testing measures for young adults and older, I'm afraid, and they're bound to be very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
What about people who aren't in a relationship but does not mind it? There are several of those in the world no? Surely there are...unless...I truly am mentally disabled.
Of course, there are plenty. You asked how much I value romantic relationships, and that was my answer. I myself am different from what I'd consider "the average person" when it comes to values and expectations, so you shouldn't take my opinion as an end-all, be-all opinion. Nobody's opinion should count as being the "right" way - but I probably don't even need to say that, I'd bet that you already know it. You seem like the thoughtful type.

And again, it's fine if you have little to no interest in relationships, whether now or for the rest of your life. Different things make different people happy. As I've remarked before, do be aware that the way you feel now may not be the way you'll feel later on. When I was in high school I toyed with the idea of dating, but never did it. It felt like it'd be a waste of time. My approach was very logical, I think you'd agree: my high school was small, so I figured that the chances of my finding high compatibility with someone in my selection (~50 ladies) was lower than what I was likely to encounter later; furthermore, we'd part ways during college, almost certainly, which would be painful and would hold us back from meeting and dating other people. So I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything.

On the other hand, hitting university was different. It felt like dating would be a good experience; it was something I wanted to try, and the timing seemed right. I wasn't craving it badly enough to make massive life changes in a short period of time, but occasionally the desire did become a bit painful (silly as it sounds, I wasn't able to finish watching Kimi ga Nozomu Eien because it made me feel incredibly depressed about the lack of dating in my life, as an example).

There's been an incredible transition in the type of person that I used to be versus the type of person that I am now. I'd started keeping a journal around the end of high school and through college, and still use it now; it's interesting to go back and read the older entries. Being able to see what has (and what hasn't) changed is very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
That's very...illogical. Do you have the answer to as to why? or how?
First, the joke among men is that women are 100% illogical. It's not completely true, but there is a slight bit of truth in it. That is, on average, men are a bit more "logic"-based whereas women are more "emotion"-based. (Both genders have their extremes, of course - some women are very un-emotional while some men are highly emotional.) So, don't approach this from an overly rational point of vew.

If you want to rationalize it, the reason can be broken down into superficial and psychological ones. On a superficial scale, dating someone, for what ever reason, elevates your social status.
1) Consider that people with no friends are considered to be potential losers: this is likely because it would be assumed that there's something unlikeable about them or that there's something wrong with them, and that's the reason that they have no friends. Having friends implies that you're likeable and/or respectable. Given this simplistic view on it, the more friends you have, the more likeable/respectable you must be.

Being in a relationship is the ultimate friendship, you could say. Unless you and your partner are both very low in social standing, being in a relationship shows that you're not only capable of connecting with other people, but that you were attractive enough to get the attention of someone from the opposite sex. It's almost a manifestation of being the ultimate likeable and ultimate respectable, although the scale is somewhat different from friendship.

Perhaps more importantly, relationships (especially with attractive partners) are something that nearly everyone yearns for, yet few seem to have. A woman who is paired with a handsome man may utilize him as though he were a rare and expensive piece of jewelry, whether intentionally or not. She may derive pleasure from seeing her friends (and other women) envious of her.

2) From a psychological standpoint, I'll have to say that I'm a male, so my view of this will likely be warped. However, there's very certainly a comfort in knowing that there's someone who felt that you were beautiful enough to bond to. Even if a relationship is bad, as long as the man is still in the relationship at all, it shows some level of committment. That can reaffirm a woman's self-worth.

Of course, that last bit isn't limited to women - men are susceptible to that just as much. But again, men are stereotyped as being more about logic and physical interactions, thus breaking up with someone when things aren't fun or easy anymore would just seem like the right thing to do. From a more emotional standpoint, it's likely much more difficult to do... although I don't particularly understand it, myself.
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Old 2009-08-05, 21:04   Link #1295
Throne Invader
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Hi everyone! There's this idea I just heard of that my friend brought up and I was curious if it was true and if it is, what's the psychologic stuff behind it?

" Some people who have boyfriends and girlfriends are insecure" - Of course we shouldn't assume that this is/could be the reason behind most/all relationships but I just need to get some opinions because I'm really eager to know if there is some truth to this.
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Old 2009-08-05, 21:29   Link #1296
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
Hi everyone! There's this idea I just heard of that my friend brought up and I was curious if it was true and if it is, what's the psychologic stuff behind it?

" Some people who have boyfriends and girlfriends are insecure" - Of course we shouldn't assume that this is/could be the reason behind most/all relationships but I just need to get some opinions because I'm really eager to know if there is some truth to this.
"Insecurity" is a bit ambigious there - do you mean that people who are in a relationship are insecure about the relationship itself, or that they seek out the relationship because they're naturally insecure about themselves? In either case, sure there's truth in it.

Based on the wording in your second part of the sentence I'm guessing you're asking about the latter. The psychology behind it is somewhat similar to what I wrote to Cypher above:

Quote:
Consider that people with no friends are considered to be potential losers: this is likely because it would be assumed that there's something unlikeable about them or that there's something wrong with them, and that's the reason that they have no friends. Having friends implies that you're likeable and/or respectable. Given this simplistic view on it, the more friends you have, the more likeable/respectable you must be.

Being in a relationship is the ultimate friendship, you could say. Unless you and your partner are both very low in social standing, being in a relationship shows that you're not only capable of connecting with other people, but that you were attractive enough to get the attention of someone from the opposite sex. It's almost a manifestation of being the ultimate likeable and ultimate respectable, although the scale is somewhat different from friendship.
In other words, not being in a relationship may cause you to worry that others would view you as deficient or undesirable in some form. If you're worrying that others would view you that way, you're likely to start viewing yourself that way, too. Thus, in order to feel like you're worth anything, you feel like you need to be with someone - anyone (and in those cases, having someone who's a loser and more desperate than you are may be nice for you, because then you can snub them and mistreat them without facing any repraisal - which just makes you feel like you're not the desperate one, they are, and you glorify in being above them. Unhealthy relationship.)

Long story short, while people like that can change (anyone can change), they're more likely to form poor relationships. They're best avoided.
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Old 2009-08-05, 22:50   Link #1297
Cipher
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
If you want to rationalize it, the reason can be broken down into superficial and psychological ones. On a superficial scale, dating someone, for what ever reason, elevates your social status.
1) Consider that people with no friends are considered to be potential losers: this is likely because it would be assumed that there's something unlikeable about them or that there's something wrong with them, and that's the reason that they have no friends. Having friends implies that you're likeable and/or respectable. Given this simplistic view on it, the more friends you have, the more likeable/respectable you must be.

Being in a relationship is the ultimate friendship, you could say. Unless you and your partner are both very low in social standing, being in a relationship shows that you're not only capable of connecting with other people, but that you were attractive enough to get the attention of someone from the opposite sex. It's almost a manifestation of being the ultimate likeable and ultimate respectable, although the scale is somewhat different from friendship.

Perhaps more importantly, relationships (especially with attractive partners) are something that nearly everyone yearns for, yet few seem to have. A woman who is paired with a handsome man may utilize him as though he were a rare and expensive piece of jewelry, whether intentionally or not. She may derive pleasure from seeing her friends (and other women) envious of her.

2) From a psychological standpoint, I'll have to say that I'm a male, so my view of this will likely be warped. However, there's very certainly a comfort in knowing that there's someone who felt that you were beautiful enough to bond to. Even if a relationship is bad, as long as the man is still in the relationship at all, it shows some level of committment. That can reaffirm a woman's self-worth.

Of course, that last bit isn't limited to women - men are susceptible to that just as much. But again, men are stereotyped as being more about logic and physical interactions, thus breaking up with someone when things aren't fun or easy anymore would just seem like the right thing to do. From a more emotional standpoint, it's likely much more difficult to do... although I don't particularly understand it, myself. .
It's unnatural and surprising how many(is it?) relationship-hungry individuals originates from super self-consciousness. Its also suspicious in some manner. Is this trait human? Is society to be blame for? or is this the really the average reason of their behaviors? or is this really even fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
Hi everyone! There's this idea I just heard of that my friend brought up and I was curious if it was true and if it is, what's the psychologic stuff behind it?

" Some people who have boyfriends and girlfriends are insecure" - Of course we shouldn't assume that this is/could be the reason behind most/all relationships but I just need to get some opinions because I'm really eager to know if there is some truth to this.
Well its certainly natural for a population of 6.776 billion to have some abnormality here and there.Some do have intimate relations out of social insecurity. That would be my seemingly dumb answer.
But if this "some" is described in a larger extent, my answer would be no. Although, I doubt my opinion would matter understanding that I'm highly not qualified. Even though I've said that, opinions are opinions.

Last edited by Cipher; 2009-08-05 at 23:29.
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Old 2009-08-05, 22:57   Link #1298
Dilla
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
Hi everyone! There's this idea I just heard of that my friend brought up and I was curious if it was true and if it is, what's the psychologic stuff behind it?

" Some people who have boyfriends and girlfriends are insecure" - Of course we shouldn't assume that this is/could be the reason behind most/all relationships but I just need to get some opinions because I'm really eager to know if there is some truth to this.
Well, I know some older people who sought out relationships simply because they were insecure about being alone. And I can understand were they are coming from, especially after going into the workforce after school. Coming home from a long day at work to a cold, empty home everyday is not cool to some people. The longer you stay by yourself, you begin to picture yourself being alone in your later years of life more and more.
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Old 2009-08-05, 23:31   Link #1299
Cipher
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Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
Well, I know some older people who sought out relationships simply because they were insecure about being alone. And I can understand were they are coming from, especially after going into the workforce after school. Coming home from a long day at work to a cold, empty home everyday is not cool to some people. The longer you stay by yourself, you begin to picture yourself being alone in your later years of life more and more.
I don't see that with today's youth though.
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Old 2009-08-05, 23:52   Link #1300
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
For the white guy/Asian women stereotype, it does seems to typically be this weird idea that white guys will typically have more success with Asian races cause they're smaller, more docile, "tamed" and obedient and ''cute'. More a trend, fascination associated with their hobbies related to that culture?
Perhaps.
While I wouldn't consider myself to have a "fetish" for asian girls like one of my friends does, I do find many asian girls quite attractive, so I feel that I should maybe give my thoughts on this.

First, I can't really comment on the docile/tamed/obediant thing, because I never really assimilated that stereotype. This is probably because I grew up in Vancouver - a city that has a huge Canadianized Asian population whose kids were born and raised here. From a personality standpoint, I never really noticed a big different between these Canadian born asians and Canadians of other races. Maybe a little more academically inclined in general, but believe it or not I knew some asians who weren't considered good students in school too.

I'll admit that watching anime did make me start paying more attention to asian girls - many of the best cosplayers at my local con are asian. But I think it's easy to overestimate the influence of this factor: while the girls I liked in high school were not asian, they tended to be small in stature and sometimes build as well. So it makes sense to me that I'd gravitate towards asians to some extent as well.

Cute is definately a big factor. I've always preferred cute to hot.

Other factors:

-Asian girls tend to have faces that look young, yet you can still clearly tell they're adults. I find that quite attractive. (I'm hoping nobody considers me a creep for saying that. When people say that a 20 year old asian girl looks fourteen, I typically find myself thinking "I would have guessed eighteen myself" and then "she's really cute". In fact, I often have trouble wrapping my head around the idea that people think these sort of girls look fourteen. And BTW, if you put aside loli, I think that moe aesthetics can be considered an idealization of this sort of "sexually mature but youthful" look. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I don't consider being attracted to either youthful looking asian or non-loli moe characters to have any relation to pedophilia.)

-In my experience, they're less likely than other races to be overweight, which I also find attractive.

-Socio-economic status: There's the stereotype of asians as wealthy, which to me comes across as at least somewhat true in Vancouver. This is a double edged sword though: I do prefer girls who have some money of their own, but I also tend to be a saver and find people who flaunt their money very unattractive.

-Sheer exoticness: Even with having grown up with some asians around, I still find that they often look very striking. Although redheads sometimes come across as even more so. I think that for guys who live in cities without large asian populations, this probably plays a huge impact.

And finally, I also remember reading an article a while back that suggested that the whole "opposites attract" thing might have a biological basis in that partners with quite different genetic code tend to have offspring with stronger immune systems - and while I'm not geneticist, it strike me that I probably have less genes in common with an asian girl than a European one.
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