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Old 2009-10-10, 12:53   Link #1781
Splitpersonality
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Okay, so we ended up fighting, and arguing over the nature of our relationship.

She believes in open relationships in an old fashioned sense. She wants to be able to go out and meet other people and experience the world. I get this, and I sort of agree. She also wants to make sure that whomever she's marrying is the right person, so she wants to essentially "shop around". She sated that she pretty much knows she will not marry me. This bothers me a little, but she's young and I'm young and I'm really not worried about that sort of thing right now. My biggest problem would her to suddenly just go, "So yeah, I like this guy more than you so we're breaking up," which is a reality I most likely have to face... and I'm not really sure if I could handle being friends with her, I think she knows too much about me and visa versa...

This is also pretty okay by me, I used to think that a relationship was a mutual agreement between two persons that "We shall date until we find discourse or reason to stop," but I'm guessing that's not how everyone else thinks.

My main problem, is I have to make up the terms of our open relationship and I need your help coming up with terms. I need to think of things that I want to outright state so that it truly is an old fashioned open relationship.

I don't want her going around having sex with people at her leisure, and I'm not going to be doing this either. This is, I believe, the first term in the agreement.

You guys know how I feel, and I would like you to please help. If you need any more info please, feel free to just ask.
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:41   Link #1782
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
Okay, so we ended up fighting, and arguing over the nature of our relationship.

She believes in open relationships in an old fashioned sense. She wants to be able to go out and meet other people and experience the world. I get this, and I sort of agree. She also wants to make sure that whomever she's marrying is the right person, so she wants to essentially "shop around". She sated that she pretty much knows she will not marry me. This bothers me a little, but she's young and I'm young and I'm really not worried about that sort of thing right now. My biggest problem would her to suddenly just go, "So yeah, I like this guy more than you so we're breaking up," which is a reality I most likely have to face... and I'm not really sure if I could handle being friends with her, I think she knows too much about me and visa versa...

This is also pretty okay by me, I used to think that a relationship was a mutual agreement between two persons that "We shall date until we find discourse or reason to stop," but I'm guessing that's not how everyone else thinks.

My main problem, is I have to make up the terms of our open relationship and I need your help coming up with terms. I need to think of things that I want to outright state so that it truly is an old fashioned open relationship.

I don't want her going around having sex with people at her leisure, and I'm not going to be doing this either. This is, I believe, the first term in the agreement.

You guys know how I feel, and I would like you to please help. If you need any more info please, feel free to just ask.
You want help ?

You really want help ?

Break up with her now.

Find a girl that you do not have to do so much adaptations for.

Find a girl that "synchronizes" with you.

This lady does not "synchronizes" with you in any way, shape or form.

If you want your balls back.

If you want to keep your DIGNITIY

Break it off now and save your self esteem

She has not and will do little modifications to her lifestyle to accommodate you.

Relationships are basically contracts of equivalent exchanges.

Right now she is giving you 6 for your 9 ... it is not the same.

You may not have the strength to walk away... but I urge you to do so.

Do it for your self esteem and pride.

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Old 2009-10-10, 13:44   Link #1783
Splitpersonality
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I've been thinking about it, but I really do care for her, and I know, or at least I really think, she cares about me too.

It seems like her selfishness impedes her chances of improving herself positively with me.

She's my first girlfriend and I sort of don't know when I'll ever get another, I guess part of me really wants to hold on because I... well I don't know when I'll get another chance.

The more I think about it, the more it needs to end, sadly.
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:44   Link #1784
Zetsubo
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Talking Read and grow.

Lyrics to Blue Octobers song... Breakfast After 10

White kitchen walls with a thousand windows
you turn on Winston in the den
and I`m still asleep but I can hear the piano
when you make breakfast after 10
and I smell the coffee on your fingers
I still smell the perfume in the bed
the crushed linen roses on everything
and your still inside my head

you gotta make her know how it feels to miss you
let her know your swapping sides
you`re not the one with all the problems no no
you`re the one with all the pride

so just pick your head up boy and walk away
walk the coolest walk that you know
cause in a month or two she`ll call you
you gotta hang up the phone

I hope she knows I got this memory
that won`t ever seem to break or bend
a thick lock and sheetrock is on my windows in the kitchen
I dont think I`ll ever take them down again

and I`ve learned a lot from all these break ups and make ups
and fuck ups and fake ups
things that I wish you could comprehend, yeah comprehend
but for now I`ll lace up my wingtip shoes, boys
and I`ll go and have breakfast with my good friends

you gotta make her know how it feels to miss you
let her know your swapping sides
you`re not the one with all the problems
you`re not the one with all the problems
you`re the one with all the pride

you gotta make her know how it feels to miss you
let her know your swapping spit
you`re not the one with all the problems
you`re not the one with all the problems
she`s the one that`s full of shit

so just pick your head up boy and walk away
walk the coolest walk that you know
I know you know that in a month or two she`ll call you
you gotta hang up the phone

Last edited by Zetsubo; 2009-10-10 at 14:05. Reason: Making sure no one thinks this is mine.
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:51   Link #1785
cheyannew
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Uh, I don't believe there's such a thing as an "old fashioned open relationship"; open relationships aren't widely practiced, to my knowledge. Or they are, and I just never met anyone in 30 years who was practicing one (besides poly people).


You won't know if she's having sex with other people at leisure, unless she tells you honestly. If there is doubt in your mind, a lack of trust, IMO it's better to say "That's fine, I understand you want to explore other opportunities. Be safe about it, and if you decide I am the right one after all, ping me later. I'll be exploring too."

If she's already decided you are NOT "the one" then IMO the "I want to explore" is a nice way of saying "I'm done with you and want to date other people, and you'll hold me back".

Mind you I am a bit jaded, as I've seen too many of these situations go horribly wrong.

Being poly, I have had "open relationships", where I dated, and snuggled with several people at once (my juniour year in HS I dated 4 guys before deciding on one, who I ended up handfasting (and later splitting when I discovered a violent side)). The difference between that, and what your partner is suggesting, is that I did not have sex with any of them. Not to say we weren't intimate, but it did not cross that line. Also, every one of them knew about the other and were ok with it (maybe them knowing I wasn't going to be sleeping with any of them made it easier, I don't think any guy likes to think a girl he's after/with is sleeping w/ other guys lol)

So the question remains: if you set ground rules, are you 100% sure they will be followed by both you and her? Or will you be doubting her at every turn? If there will be doubt, I think it'd be a kinder option to both of you to just part as friends, before there may be resentment and whatnot breeding.
If you trust her completely, then figure out what you're comfy with. You've mentioned you're not comfy with her sleeping with others, so mention that. Agree to not have sex, be intimate, go past a hug and kiss, whatever. I do not think she will agree to that, though. Exploration usually includes being with other people to figure out exactly what you like, so that'd defeat the purpose of that rule

We can't help you state outright things you have in your mind/heart that're acceptable; only you can. I suggest a lkong heart to heart where you lay out what you're comfy with, see what she's comfy with. No fights, no arguments, just honesty. If you can't have that conversation w/o someone getting defensive/offended, then, sorry to say, your relationship doesn't have a leg to stand on.
My hubby and I argue and whatnot, but we have never argued over the relationship itself. Not even when laying down the rules of my seeing other people (all whopping 1 of them lol). And we'll have been married 13 years come December, so I like to think we've got a good thing going lol.
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:52   Link #1786
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
I've been thinking about it, but I really do care for her, and I know, or at least I really think, she cares about me too.
That is why you need to walk away boy.

Quote:
She's my first girlfriend and I sort of don't know when I'll ever get another
BULLSHIT !!!!

Take your balls back man.

Give her time to grow up on her own and find someone else.

You do the same.

If you end up together, then do so on EQUAL TERMS and stop changing your self for her when she isn't doing so.

She knows she doesn't have to do it because your desperately sucking her tits like an infant.

She her sense of self is stronger than yours Even if it is good or bad sense of self. Even if she is selfish and self centered. Even if she is struggling to grow and actually be a good person.

The fact still remains that you are not her equal.

She has more balls than you right now, isn't that a bad thing ?

Quote:
I guess part of me really wants to hold on because I... well I don't know when I'll get another chance.
That is because your self esteem needs to grow. Right now it is low. You are desperate.

Learn this... desperate men repel healthy women !

WALK AWAY !
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:56   Link #1787
cheyannew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
I've been thinking about it, but I really do care for her, and I know, or at least I really think, she cares about me too.

It seems like her selfishness impedes her chances of improving herself positively with me.

She's my first girlfriend and I sort of don't know when I'll ever get another, I guess part of me really wants to hold on because I... well I don't know when I'll get another chance.

The more I think about it, the more it needs to end, sadly.
Oh, dear, I have to say, there's your problem right there.

You can't have a healthy relationship if you fear. There's normally a bit of self-doubt when things are new, but you can't have a healthy relationship if you hold onto "Ms Right Now" instead of figuring out who you are so you can find "Ms RIght".
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Old 2009-10-10, 13:57   Link #1788
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If I were a girl, I wouldn't mess with Zetsubo, that's for sure.

And yh, agreed with everything that's been said above. If she wants to go, let her go, and try to forget about her.
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Old 2009-10-10, 14:11   Link #1789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
I've been thinking about it, but I really do care for her, and I know, or at least I really think, she cares about me too.

It seems like her selfishness impedes her chances of improving herself positively with me.

She's my first girlfriend and I sort of don't know when I'll ever get another, I guess part of me really wants to hold on because I... well I don't know when I'll get another chance.

The more I think about it, the more it needs to end, sadly.
If she has a problem changing for you, then I don't think staying with her in the long haul is going to help.

You get major points for being willing to go along with her idea of an "old-fashioned open relationship"... but the problem is, just what is an "open relationship"? I've heard of them myself, but as far as I know that kind of thing doesn't tend to work because having your emotions involved mucks everything up.

Just because she's your first girlfriend doesn't mean you have to hold on to her. You say so yourself that you're young (why am I talking like this? ). You'll have plenty of chances to date other girls, but you aren't doing yourself any favors by holding onto someone who makes you doubt the relationship.

If you don't want to completely break up with her, then simply suggest a short-term break in the relationship. It'll give you time to figure out what you're feeling and what she means to you, and whether or not you think she's worth being with.

...

Though my gut instinct, honestly, is to tell you to break up with her. But I'm trying to be nice.
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Old 2009-10-10, 14:22   Link #1790
Splitpersonality
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Though my gut instinct, honestly, is to tell you to break up with her. But I'm trying to be nice.
Being too soft on me will only bite me in the ass eventually haha.

I want to thank you guys for what you've suggested, and what you've said.

It's obviously not over yet, but now I have a good platform for thinking of what to do.

Now I suppose it's time for me to start thinking of what exactly to say, how to word things and whatnot.

Again, thank you guys. *bow*
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Old 2009-10-10, 23:13   Link #1791
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
This is also pretty okay by me, I used to think that a relationship was a mutual agreement between two persons that "We shall date until we find discourse or reason to stop," but I'm guessing that's not how everyone else thinks.
You're absolutely right that not everyone feels that way. Finding someone who's compatible with you doesn't just mean shared hobbies and virtues, it means finding someone with a similar (or at least compatible) world view. In my opinion, the most critical element in a relationship is trust. You are clearly very dedicated and have fidelity as a value, yet she's either confused or just doesn't share that value. Your trust in her already seems to be eroding, and now you're just being set up to feel that your good intentions and faithfulness were trampled on.

Be up-front and honest - you don't like this, and she is going to lose you. As you say, it's understandable, and you're both young. But do not ever cling to a relationship because you're worried that you won't be able to get into another one. You won't be able to disengage from harmful, unhappy relationships if you feel that way. Just given the way that you said she treated you these past few days and what she said now, I completely feel for you. You're devoted and dedicated, but she's taking it for granted and isn't respecting it. You're a step away from what we could classify as abused; for all I know, the entire relationship has been abusive toward you.

If I were you, I'd get out of it. I did it with the first girl I dated (which in hindsight was also abusive toward me), even though I was also unsure of how date-worthy I was. A few months after that breakup I met the girl who is now, years later, my fiancee. You never know what life will throw your way. But if you're still snagged in this messed up relationship, the perfect woman for you could cross your path tomorrow but you'd be unable to do anything about it.

Instead of feeling that you may not ever be able to date anyone else, why not see it differently - you were already in one relationship, so that means that - congratulations - you're not a total turn-off! In fact, you may be quite a good catch. Cut yourself loose, be single for a while if that's what it comes down to, and find someone who will treat you right and love you in return. Nothing risked, nothing gained.

And as always, we're here for you. It's a tough situation and I'm sorry that you have to experience it, but do what's right for you, and be free to grab any happiness that may come your way.
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Old 2009-10-10, 23:19   Link #1792
cheyannew
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Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
Now I suppose it's time for me to start thinking of what exactly to say, how to word things and whatnot.
Oh, THAT part is easy...

"I don't think we should continue seeing one another, our goals for this relationship aren't the same, and I'd rather part while we're still friendly."

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Old 2009-10-10, 23:20   Link #1793
Splitpersonality
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Right, thanks for the additional advice. It does sort of make me feel like shit that I've done things right, I've kept my promises, and I've gone without money and in one case food to get her a present, it feels like my hard work is just being turned into a pile of shit, but I know I won't be able to change her mind, because I think her friends in college are rallied against me, or maybe that's just me being paranoid.

One thing that bothers me is she keeps blaming me for scaring her by saying eventually I might want to marry her, so she's getting freaked out because I made a passing comment regarding something that will most likely not happen? Bah.

Another problem is, well she's done a lot for me. No she hasn't changed or done anything to help the relationship, but she's opened up a world of new things for me that I had never considered before, music, books, TV shows, everything, and part of me just feels so thankful to her for that, and I really do feel like I've grown as a person. If we were both more mature about things, I have a terrible feeling that we would work out, am I wrong in thinking this? Should I even think of this?

I mean, I want to continue to be friends with her after this, but I don't want her to then turn around at an eventual point and go "Yeah, I think I'm ready to date you now," and me not be ready to or not even want to. Should I just straight out excise her from my life?


EDIT
Quote:
Oh, THAT part is easy...
You'd think so, but I'm not just breaking up with her, I'm doing it in search of truth. I want to know what exactly bothered her so much about me to cause this distension. I want to know everything so that I can prevent myself from being the same way with other people.
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Old 2009-10-10, 23:40   Link #1794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
Another problem is, well she's done a lot for me. No she hasn't changed or done anything to help the relationship, but she's opened up a world of new things for me that I had never considered before, music, books, TV shows, everything, and part of me just feels so thankful to her for that, and I really do feel like I've grown as a person. If we were both more mature about things, I have a terrible feeling that we would work out, am I wrong in thinking this? Should I even think of this?
Heh...

Speaking from experience, this is normal. You'll always wonder, especially when she's placing most of the blame on you. It's not wrong to think that way, even if sometines it hurts.

Quote:
I mean, I want to continue to be friends with her after this, but I don't want her to then turn around at an eventual point and go "Yeah, I think I'm ready to date you now," and me not be ready to or not even want to. Should I just straight out excise her from my life?
If you want to get her out of her life, then you need to be sure that it's something you want and something you'll feel good about when it's finally said and done. You don't have to get back with her if you don't want to if she ever comes back to you. It's all your choice.
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Old 2009-10-11, 00:15   Link #1795
Quzor
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Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
Right, thanks for the additional advice. It does sort of make me feel like shit that I've done things right, I've kept my promises, and I've gone without money and in one case food to get her a present, it feels like my hard work is just being turned into a pile of shit, but I know I won't be able to change her mind, because I think her friends in college are rallied against me, or maybe that's just me being paranoid.

One thing that bothers me is she keeps blaming me for scaring her by saying eventually I might want to marry her, so she's getting freaked out because I made a passing comment regarding something that will most likely not happen? Bah.

Another problem is, well she's done a lot for me. No she hasn't changed or done anything to help the relationship, but she's opened up a world of new things for me that I had never considered before, music, books, TV shows, everything, and part of me just feels so thankful to her for that, and I really do feel like I've grown as a person. If we were both more mature about things, I have a terrible feeling that we would work out, am I wrong in thinking this? Should I even think of this?
In my experience, what a person shows you of the world, is significantly less important than what they're able to teach you about yourself. Assuming you're not on your death bed (you seem to be of virile age), you'll have plenty of chances to have the world opened up to you. You simply have to be open-minded about both what you see, and what is presented to you.

If you were both more mature, you may indeed work it out. However, that's not the case, clearly. No matter what the reason, it would seem as though this relationship is headed towards its end. As many have said before me, it may be best for you to come to terms with that, and end it directly. You're welcome to still attempt a friendship with her, but don't be surprised if that option becomes unavailable when the relationship ends.

In my opinion, the person you're in a relationship with should not make you feel used. I think Zetsubo had one good point, in that relationships are about give and take, and both parties have to be willing to give and take a near-equal amount. From what you've described, it sounds like she's taking far more than she's giving. For me, the "open relationship" would be the last straw; now she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

Quote:
I mean, I want to continue to be friends with her after this, but I don't want her to then turn around at an eventual point and go "Yeah, I think I'm ready to date you now," and me not be ready to or not even want to. Should I just straight out excise her from my life?
Like I said above, if you want to pursue the friendship possibility, you should do that. However, be wary of the way you were treated in the relationship, and take note of the fact that your friendship with her could turn out much the same way, if in a different context.


Quote:
You'd think so, but I'm not just breaking up with her, I'm doing it in search of truth. I want to know what exactly bothered her so much about me to cause this distension. I want to know everything so that I can prevent myself from being the same way with other people.
I wouldn't stress yourself out too much about what you did wrong. The bottom line is, the relationship didn't work out. If you start freaking out about where you went wrong, or what your problem was, that's all that will be on your mind when you attempt to start that next relationship. Be confident in the person that you are, and certainly don't try to make drastic personal changes based on your very first relationship.
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Old 2009-10-11, 05:20   Link #1796
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Originally Posted by Splitpersonality View Post
Okay, so we ended up fighting, and arguing over the nature of our relationship.

She believes in open relationships in an old fashioned sense. She wants to be able to go out and meet other people and experience the world. I get this, and I sort of agree. She also wants to make sure that whomever she's marrying is the right person, so she wants to essentially "shop around". She sated that she pretty much knows she will not marry me. This bothers me a little, but she's young and I'm young and I'm really not worried about that sort of thing right now. My biggest problem would her to suddenly just go, "So yeah, I like this guy more than you so we're breaking up," which is a reality I most likely have to face... and I'm not really sure if I could handle being friends with her, I think she knows too much about me and visa versa...

This is also pretty okay by me, I used to think that a relationship was a mutual agreement between two persons that "We shall date until we find discourse or reason to stop," but I'm guessing that's not how everyone else thinks.

My main problem, is I have to make up the terms of our open relationship and I need your help coming up with terms. I need to think of things that I want to outright state so that it truly is an old fashioned open relationship.

I don't want her going around having sex with people at her leisure, and I'm not going to be doing this either. This is, I believe, the first term in the agreement.

You guys know how I feel, and I would like you to please help. If you need any more info please, feel free to just ask.
Uh. Tell her to gtfo:

This clearly ain't going anywhere, I'm sorry but that's the cut and clear truth man... she's just dragging it so as she doesn't have to do the dirty work of breaking up with you in a swift and harsh manner (and that you might get the hint later on down the road, and break up with her instead).

And as for staying friends after your guys' breakup? No.
If you really want to help yourself (seeing how clearly you are balls deep into this girl and she.. just doesn't feel that way for you anymore, if she ever did), distance yourself from her until you truly get over her or meet somebody else; If you stick around with her as a "friend" after you guys break up, you will just fuck yourself even more since we all know that the "friend" act after a breakup (in a fairly serious relationship, not a fling) is bullshit, and that you're sticking around because you still like her and deep in the back of your head - want to get back with her (when clearly she doesn't).
Distance yourself. You won't get over her unless you do, and if you don't - it'll just hurt that much more when you see her go off with some other guy.
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Old 2009-10-11, 09:33   Link #1797
whitepearl
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Ari Gold FTW One of my favorite Entourage related gifs.

But back to the subject at hand...

Some people do like to "shop around" when it comes to significant others...it's almost like job offers: you want to have at least two to consider so that way you won't be putting all your eggs into one basket.

H23 is right...you really don't want to end up in the friendzone with her. Most friendzones do not yield anything great. Not saying they are all bad but it's generally a pretty crappy "consolation prize" if the girl was one you really wanted to be your girlfriend.

It will take a lot of time to get over the girl (the length varies but one cannot get over someone in a week) but once you do, you'll feel better about it all.
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Old 2009-10-11, 10:30   Link #1798
Splitpersonality
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It will take a lot of time to get over the girl (the length varies but one cannot get over someone in a week) but once you do, you'll feel better about it all.
Our two year date would've been January 24th. How long do you think it'll take? lol
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Old 2009-10-11, 10:53   Link #1799
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Our two year date would've been January 24th. How long do you think it'll take? lol
How long it takes varies on what kind of person you are. It's not something that's set in stone. Just take as long as you need.
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Old 2009-10-11, 11:13   Link #1800
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Pretty much what RadiantBeam said.

It took me years (literally) to get over the fact that some girl I liked, and wanted as a gf, didn't feel the same way about me.

It's different for everyone. The gripe for me was this perceived level of compatibility I thought I had with her...and I had this strong sense of wanting to "belong" to someone, thanks to the fact I had very few friends when I was little. But my experience isn't typical of everyone else's.

Just give yourself time...and don't hesitate to consult friends for advice and help.
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