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Old 2009-10-16, 19:58   Link #1921
stubby42
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK/Canada
Quote:
Given the numbers of people who would then be considered to look bad, but continue to happily reproduce, I think a lot of people don't see it as "very" important. Not as important as many other things. Ledgem wrote a nice post about it.
Oh I agree with you guys I'm just pointing out that there is a perfectly valid argument for looks, the fact is attraction is an extremely complex science its not pure biology because theres alot of social and phsycological stuff going on as well.

Your also taking what I'm saying too literally, my feeling is that all of the 'un attractive' people find each other attractive, I havent read too much on the science but I'm guessing most of us know we arent from the best gene pool around so we go for others on a similar level to our own.

I feel kind of bad saying all this stuff because I really only have a vague understanding of the science (serriously ask me anything about the internet in relation to buisness and ecomonics and I'm your man but i'm really not that well read on sexual attraction theory) but you cant ignore biology because its a part of everything we do.
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Old 2009-10-16, 20:02   Link #1922
Otaku Emperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
Oh I agree with you guys I'm just pointing out that there is a perfectly valid argument for looks, the fact is attraction is an extremely complex science its not pure biology because theres alot of social and phsycological stuff going on as well.

Your also taking what I'm saying too literally, my feeling is that all of the 'un attractive' people find each other attractive, I havent read too much on the science but I'm guessing most of us know we arent from the best gene pool around so we go for others on a similar level to our own.

I feel kind of bad saying all this stuff because I really only have a vague understanding of the science (serriously ask me anything about the internet in relation to buisness and ecomonics and I'm your man but i'm really not that well read on sexual attraction theory) but you cant ignore biology because its a part of everything we do.
Lolz, same with me, I just apply everything I think into words, I dun know much about sciency stuff.
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Old 2009-10-16, 20:09   Link #1923
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
Oh I agree with you guys I'm just pointing out that there is a perfectly valid argument for looks, the fact is attraction is an extremely complex science its not pure biology because theres alot of social and phsycological stuff going on as well.

Your also taking what I'm saying too literally, my feeling is that all of the 'un attractive' people find each other attractive, I havent read too much on the science but I'm guessing most of us know we arent from the best gene pool around so we go for others on a similar level to our own.

I feel kind of bad saying all this stuff because I really only have a vague understanding of the science (serriously ask me anything about the internet in relation to buisness and ecomonics and I'm your man but i'm really not that well read on sexual attraction theory) but you cant ignore biology because its a part of everything we do.
You know, about attraction, I merely gave an opinion based on what i saw, read, and from the programs I watched on the TV XD.

I didn't say a lot of things about my personal opinion. But in the past, I did write a lot about discrimination towards the good looking people (i mean, for example when people think that every good looking man are evil, or that good looking women all have a bad personality etc.) I think look and taking care of one's body matter. I am part of those who take care of their body a lot. In my case, not because I want people to look at me, but mainly because I care for my body, and because I like mine.

As I see it, somebody who tries (no need to have alot of money to try to not eat a lot of fat, or to go running a bit) to take care of him/herself is in some cases, at least aware that it is important because we have only one body and we can't be repaired easily like a car.

Etc etc.

But beside my own view on it, I just notice that for many people, it is not seen as important as I see it. But I still agree fully with what Ledgem wrote, while I think look matters,for me, is not the "most #1" important.
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Old 2009-10-16, 20:11   Link #1924
LusterFlare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
Oh I agree with you guys I'm just pointing out that there is a perfectly valid argument for looks, the fact is attraction is an extremely complex science its not pure biology because theres alot of social and phsycological stuff going on as well.
Yeah, there are definite social/psychological factors concerning sexual attraction.

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Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
Your also taking what I'm saying too literally, my feeling is that all of the 'un attractive' people find each other attractive, I havent read too much on the science but I'm guessing most of us know we arent from the best gene pool around so we go for others on a similar level to our own.
Hmm, I think it's more of "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" kind of thing. Also, like Narona said, some people don't use looks as a prime factor when looking for partners.

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
we can't be repaired easily like a car.
I couldn't help but smile at this. I don't if it's just my personal experience, but broken cars (my dad's car) seem to break repeatedly despite being "fixed" haha .
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Old 2009-10-16, 20:41   Link #1925
Narona
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Originally Posted by LusterFlare View Post
Hmm, I think it's more of "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" kind of thing. Also, like Narona said, some people don't use looks as a prime factor when looking for partners.
Maybe not the prime factor, but as Ledgem implied it, there are people (most I think) who feel the need to find their lover physically attractive. And I personally don't think it's a bad thing. Of course, what is seen as attractive or not can differ greatly from a person to another.

Quote:
I couldn't help but smile at this. I don't if it's just my personal experience, but broken cars (my dad's car) seem to break repeatedly despite being "fixed" haha .
Your dad's car has a bad karma, or a curse

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Old 2009-10-16, 21:15   Link #1926
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
We're heading into the crunch time period of the term. She's starting to get real busy, and I'm facing the prospect of having a bunch of stuff to do myself. Things look like they're gonna be this way for the next couple or three weeks, and this is the first week in recent memory that we haven't been able to go on a date, although that's mostly because we just haven't been able to meet in campus. Considering the work we're having to deal with at this stage, I'd say it's for the better anyway; so the question I have is actually fairly minor. How do I strike a balance between not jeopardizing her grades and mine as well, and not letting what we have cool down from neglect?
That partly depends on her. When my fiancee and I first started dating it was painful to be apart from each other. Actually, it still is - why, I was in lab until around 8:20 PM this evening and I got a call from her at 7:50, asking when I was coming home. (Science is slavery.) But I think we're unusual in that we really love each other's company and tend to miss each other if we're apart for more than a few hours.

I bring that up because if you're in a similar situation, where being apart for a few hours becomes painful, then being separated for longer periods of time makes it a bit easier. It's sort of like having a cut - it hurts and stings quite a bit when it's fresh, but over time the pain sensation dulls (I'll skip the biological reason why). Of course, if you press it or anything then it still hurts. Similarly, it may be that being apart initially is very painful, but as it becomes normalcy then the pain becomes easier to deal with.

Yet that's where a balance is required, because you wouldn't want to have a passionate desire to see one another reduced to apathy. Of course, if you're both generally cool about seeing each other and parting, then it may not matter much. However you still want to be on her mind even slightly. Surprise her, do nice things for her - you don't have to show up at her house unannounced (that could be detrimental, I suppose) but doing something like, say, sending her flowers, or leaving her a love letter - little things like that. Honestly, whether male or female, anyone appreciates little things like that from a lover. It gives a warm feeling inside.

Those are just some little examples - you can spruce it up (and given your track record, I practically expect to hear that you pull off something amazingly suave). Yet how it'll affect her depends on her. If she really, really misses you sorely, then even a little thing like that could completely destroy her concentration for the rest of the day. But I'd imagine that such a situation would be rare, and you know her better than we do. So don't go overboard, but definitely do little things to show her that you're thinking of her and appreciating her, where you can. (And do that for the rest of your life to whomever you end up marrying. It goes a long way.)

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
What did you expect me to reply?

Actually I entirely approve what you said (that happens quite a lot lately ).
I expected to hear a harsh disagreement from the "ill-tempered French lady" We have a number of people from France in neighboring labs - I know very well not to anger a Frenchwoman. Also, we had some more major disagreements in the past, so I figured that the recent string of agreements was random chance and that the luck couldn't last forever.

By the way, I can't view your profile to add you as a friend/contact... want to be friends?

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I hope I will not bring misfortune on Ledgem's couple (I sincerely wish you and your GF a lot of happiness, Ledgem.), but so far, and to give an example of people we know a bit here on AS (so I hope i'll not be neg repped this time by Mister/Miss I hate Narona's examples) it seems that his soon-to-become wife did wait a bit for the right guy, and actually met him. I'll not say that such things happens often, but for those who seek such goal (so not everyone obviously), I think it's good to say to them that it can definitely happen, and I think that's not something "bad" to not experience failed relationships (again I hope i'll not bring misfortune on your couple, Ledgem >.< ). I don't see the point of crushing people hopes.
Not at all. The truth is that I'm my fiancee's first boyfriend (and last, at this rate), and she was "only" the second girl that I dated. Given our age and the relative lack of experience, it certainly would seem like we were rushing into things. Yet that wasn't the case at all. I don't intend to justify myself here (because nobody's asking me to, and it would get into details that are more personal than I care to mention) but I will say that I was always looking at various girls and pondering relationship potentials, and I often felt that I'd have to make some major changes in order to be compatible with them and meet their expectations. With my fiancee, I didn't need to make any changes. I don't think she had to make any changes for me, either (aside from cutting seafood out of the list of foods that she cooks, maybe ). We evaluated each other for about three years before committing. It seems that the both of us are also a bit more serious and forward-thinking ("mature" I suppose) than our peers, so I didn't feel that it seemed out of place on our time scale.

Would I recommend it to other people? Hard to say. In general I think it'd be best to do something like this when you've reached a relatively stable point in your life (basically, when you're out of school). But these days school goes longer than it did in the past. Also, you can't choose when the right person will come along. It's a gamble no matter how you look at it - you can only choose one person (one person at a time, anyway), yet while you're with that one person you can't mingle with others. How can you be sure that someone better, someone more attractive and more compatible, won't come along? You can't be. Yet at some point you need to seize what you have and commit to it - for better or for worse, you'll work as hard as humanly possible to make it last, even if someone more optimal exists.

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
There were many debates in France about that. Men who are [sexually] attracted by fat or older women exist (and there were some quite good looking guys among those who were shown. IIRC, It was in a "Ca se Discute" debate) Women who fell in love with quite poor guys (so they don't fit the "women only go after the men with big wallet" <<< in the case of these, the society itself plays a big role imo, much more than genetics. When i compare how it is said to be in some asian countries in comparison to France, I can see that.) etc.
Ah, but those people got onto that TV show for their supposed strange fetishes, am I right? Isn't it possible that they exaggerated (if not completely made up) their attractions? Hmhmhm... now you're thinking like a scientist!
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Old 2009-10-16, 23:34   Link #1927
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quzor View Post
@Ascaloth:

You're still talking quite a bit, it seems, which is a good thing. That, in itself, may be enough to keep what you have going strong, without jeopardizing each others grades. By the same token (forgive me for being unable to recall if we've moved past this bit), this may be a good opportunity to give her the time to sort out her feelings without the whole physical aspect of the relationship have an affect on her decision.

You could always suggest a specific day and time where the two of you decide to meet up for a short period; a coffee or something of that nature. I'm sure the opportunity to get away from your studies, if only for a brief time, would be of benefit to both of you, so that your brains don't burn out from staring at text books and classroom material for umpteen consecutive hours.
Sounds like a good idea at first glance....except the last time we agreed to meet up briefly, we somehow ended up staying well past 10. General Relativity's a bitch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
That partly depends on her. When my fiancee and I first started dating it was painful to be apart from each other. Actually, it still is - why, I was in lab until around 8:20 PM this evening and I got a call from her at 7:50, asking when I was coming home. (Science is slavery.) But I think we're unusual in that we really love each other's company and tend to miss each other if we're apart for more than a few hours.

I bring that up because if you're in a similar situation, where being apart for a few hours becomes painful, then being separated for longer periods of time makes it a bit easier. It's sort of like having a cut - it hurts and stings quite a bit when it's fresh, but over time the pain sensation dulls (I'll skip the biological reason why). Of course, if you press it or anything then it still hurts. Similarly, it may be that being apart initially is very painful, but as it becomes normalcy then the pain becomes easier to deal with.

Yet that's where a balance is required, because you wouldn't want to have a passionate desire to see one another reduced to apathy. Of course, if you're both generally cool about seeing each other and parting, then it may not matter much. However you still want to be on her mind even slightly. Surprise her, do nice things for her - you don't have to show up at her house unannounced (that could be detrimental, I suppose) but doing something like, say, sending her flowers, or leaving her a love letter - little things like that. Honestly, whether male or female, anyone appreciates little things like that from a lover. It gives a warm feeling inside.

Those are just some little examples - you can spruce it up (and given your track record, I practically expect to hear that you pull off something amazingly suave). Yet how it'll affect her depends on her. If she really, really misses you sorely, then even a little thing like that could completely destroy her concentration for the rest of the day. But I'd imagine that such a situation would be rare, and you know her better than we do. So don't go overboard, but definitely do little things to show her that you're thinking of her and appreciating her, where you can. (And do that for the rest of your life to whomever you end up marrying. It goes a long way.)
Well, damned. Now I have to think of something really slick just to meet expectations.

JK aside, thanks for the tip. I'll try to think of something; if I do want to give her a gift of some sort though, I'll have to be careful about my choice of gift. Her housemates are still in the dark about our relationship (her mom knows now though, so I guess that's something), so I don't want to put her in a situation where they'll start asking questions.
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Old 2009-10-17, 16:57   Link #1928
Narona
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I expected to hear a harsh disagreement from the "ill-tempered French lady" We have a number of people from France in neighboring labs - I know very well not to anger a Frenchwoman. Also, we had some more major disagreements in the past, so I figured that the recent string of agreements was random chance and that the luck couldn't last forever.
I only disagree when I have a different opinion/pov, not for the sake of disagreeing to annoy people XD

Quote:
By the way, I can't view your profile to add you as a friend/contact... want to be friends?
Weird, Yoko had the same problem, but now i checked off the option, so every member can see my profile >.< I'll send you a friend request in a few minutes.

Quote:
I don't intend to justify myself here (because nobody's asking me to, and it would get into details that are more personal than I care to mention)
I understand, cos I myself don't want to talk about some personal things, at least here on a public forum

I can be a bit shy about some things, or quite "secretive" like Mystique said once to me

Quote:
but I will say that I was always looking at various girls and pondering relationship potentials, and I often felt that I'd have to make some major changes in order to be compatible with them and meet their expectations. With my fiancee, I didn't need to make any changes. I don't think she had to make any changes for me, either (aside from cutting seafood out of the list of foods that she cooks, maybe ). We evaluated each other for about three years before committing. It seems that the both of us are also a bit more serious and forward-thinking ("mature" I suppose) than our peers, so I didn't feel that it seemed out of place on our time scale.
That's what people should aim for, imo

Haha, new info, ... so you dislike Seafood

Quote:
Would I recommend it to other people? Hard to say. In general I think it'd be best to do something like this when you've reached a relatively stable point in your life (basically, when you're out of school). But these days school goes longer than it did in the past. Also, you can't choose when the right person will come along. It's a gamble no matter how you look at it - you can only choose one person (one person at a time, anyway), yet while you're with that one person you can't mingle with others. How can you be sure that someone better, someone more attractive and more compatible, won't come along? You can't be. Yet at some point you need to seize what you have and commit to it - for better or for worse, you'll work as hard as humanly possible to make it last, even if someone more optimal exists.
Yup, agreed (again). We can't achieve anything great if we don't take any risks, anyway. To commit is taking a risk, but from my pov, it worths it, because if the union works, it can become something beautiful, from my pov.

Quote:
Ah, but those people got onto that TV show for their supposed strange fetishes, am I right? Isn't it possible that they exaggerated (if not completely made up) their attractions? Hmhmhm... now you're thinking like a scientist!
TBH, I wonder =D, because Delarue (the one who presents this program) is somebody that I don't really consider a good person given some things he did. And I dislikehow the medias "create" norms and such and brainwash people.

Anyway, that doesn't change that a lot of people know at least one couple that doesn't fit the society "standardization", am i wrong?
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Old 2009-10-17, 18:10   Link #1929
Shiemi
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Well, damned. Now I have to think of something really slick just to meet expectations.
Handwritten letters can be wonderful (I think Ledgem mentioned this option).

Quote:

JK aside, thanks for the tip. I'll try to think of something; if I do want to give her a gift of some sort though, I'll have to be careful about my choice of gift. Her housemates are still in the dark about our relationship (her mom knows now though, so I guess that's something), so I don't want to put her in a situation where they'll start asking questions.
Before you put her in such a situation, even if by accident (though I don't understand why it would be better to keep housemates in the dark unless they are the kind that can intrude too much in personal life), maybe you should talk with her about whether she would be okay with housemates eventually finding out?
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Old 2009-10-17, 18:49   Link #1930
whitepearl
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Originally Posted by Shiemi View Post
Handwritten letters can be wonderful (I think Ledgem mentioned this option).
Yes, they can be. Some article I read years ago said it was a good way to show that you are genuine with how you feel. It has a little more feeling to it than some typed out letter.
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Old 2009-10-17, 19:19   Link #1931
Splitpersonality
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So there was this party today, and I was invited by one of the girls that likes me, and it was a great chance for me to have more alone time with her, as we're both not really people that dance at parties or anything, we would've just hung out somewhere, as we've done before at the two parties we've both attended together.

When she mentioned this to me, I was happy, I had nothing else I really wanted to do and it would be great to have fun with her, since I"m never invited anywhere anyway.

However, I had about three essays to do tonight, and my father wanted them done now, so I missed my chance for tonight

When I mentioned this to her though, she seemed really upset, and started ranting about how she's always alone.

Hrmm...


So I guess I'm a little upset I missed my opportunity for now, but perhaps it'll work out even better for me.


Also, A hero of our time is a hard book to write essays on :P
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Old 2009-10-17, 19:22   Link #1932
whitepearl
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Sucks that your father had to put on that defense...

Maybe she'll try a little harder to want to get some alone time with you...
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Old 2009-10-17, 20:12   Link #1933
Splitpersonality
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Well it's true, he flipped out when he saw me writing this and not doing my homework, but the essays are rather tedious right now...


One would hope
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Old 2009-10-17, 21:31   Link #1934
Mr Bland
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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I'm your typical 'nice guy.' I'm always there for a girl, I'm nice, funny, intelligent, and I never push girls around like the other guys. Yet I am unsuccessful, have yet to experience a date, let alone a kiss. I really like this one girl who is super duper freaking mega cute, but, I'm friendzone'd by every female friend I have.

Not to mention I have a case of depression that is untreatable by medication, along with an anxiety disorder, so I'm pretty much always sad about my whole situation.


Baww.
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Old 2009-10-17, 21:46   Link #1935
Otaku Emperor
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by Mr Bland View Post
I'm your typical 'nice guy.' I'm always there for a girl, I'm nice, funny, intelligent, and I never push girls around like the other guys. Yet I am unsuccessful, have yet to experience a date, let alone a kiss. I really like this one girl who is super duper freaking mega cute, but, I'm friendzone'd by every female friend I have.

Not to mention I have a case of depression that is untreatable by medication, along with an anxiety disorder, so I'm pretty much always sad about my whole situation.


Baww.
Lolz, most peeps are in the same suituation, so thats normal.

^ _ ^ Your only in high school, so dun worry so muchy.
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Old 2009-10-17, 22:08   Link #1936
Ascaloth
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiemi View Post
Handwritten letters can be wonderful (I think Ledgem mentioned this option).
Kind of old-fashioned, but sounds like a good idea too. On the other hand, my handwriting is just a few degrees shy of qualifying me for a medical doctorate.

If I do try this though, I'd want to write it in French for her (since she's studying it, and it'll help as a measure agaisnt prying eyes), but....I've never learned French. So yeah. Help, anyone? Narona-chan?

Quote:
Before you put her in such a situation, even if by accident (though I don't understand why it would be better to keep housemates in the dark unless they are the kind that can intrude too much in personal life), maybe you should talk with her about whether she would be okay with housemates eventually finding out?
Oh, I've gone through this with her already. Basically, our relationship is new and thus isn't all that rock-steady yet, so she doesn't want to announce it until she's sure it is. Besides, she's sharing the apartment with several of her countrymen, at least three of whom are guys who treat her as the imouto-chan of the house, so....I can see where she's coming from when she says she doesn't want these guys to "turn their backs" on her. I dare say Vietnamese men still have something of a chauvinistic mindset.

So yeah, I admit I am a bit bugged, but not as much as I usually would be since we've talked this over. Time will tell how this goes from there.
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Old 2009-10-17, 22:20   Link #1937
Splitpersonality
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Quote:
Kind of old-fashioned, but sounds like a good idea too. On the other hand, my handwriting is just a few degrees shy of qualifying me for a medical doctorate.

If I do try this though, I'd want to write it in French for her (since she's studying it, and it'll help as a measure agaisnt prying eyes), but....I've never learned French. So yeah. Help, anyone? Narona-chan?
My ex girlfriend's handwriting was akin to that of a simultaneous doctor and serial killer, it is the most atrocious thing I've ever seen in my life. Yet when we were first together, about a couple of months in, she wrote me a letter in french, which I still have somewhere in my room, and it was one of the most beautiful things to me, whether or not she meant it is no objection, I just love that old fashioned sappy shit :P

I know un peu of french, and I'd be glad to help in any way I can
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Old 2009-10-17, 22:50   Link #1938
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
I thought I would never need to post in this thread, but apparently a hard reality struck me.

Recently my parents met up with some distant relatives and invited them over. My sister, with her boyfriend, was the subject of smiles until one of them came into my room and asked a question : " Do you have a girlfriend?" Being the male who used his brains more than his mouth, I said, "Why the heck do I need one?"

Immediately they bombarded me with questions like, "Why do you not have one?", "Did you just break up?", "Why don't you go and find?", etc. I just replied in one liners until they went out and offered to matchmake me.

The last straw pissed me off and I went out and snapped, "Where are you going to get the girl from? The red light district? You old people with deteriorating braincells, wake up your bloody idea! Since when do girls nowadays look for a guy who earns less than 4k? You come my house then talk so much bullshit, why don't you use your eyes and look at how the f***ing world has changed in 20 f***king years? The average income of a local here is $5k per month and I am serving my national service, earning 10 times less and you still come here and make so much noise. Go back to your village!"

Often I get people who ask me to, "Go find a girlfriend" in which I can simply slam them back using, "Got lobang(hole/opportunities in Malay, figuratively), intro. No lobang, diam diam (keep your mouth shut)." Naturally people would keep the best for themselves and leave me alone, but this is just too much for me to take when they prod their long noses into a problem I place at ground zero priority and make it sound so important in front of my parents. Now everyone around me is worried that I might turn into a homosexual, hikkikomori or worse : NEET (never going to happen, I believe in working for my own expenditure). If there is a way to quickly find a stand-in which can be quickly dumped on a short notice, life would certainly be easier on those who know the real priorities in life.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-10-18, 03:16   Link #1939
Narona
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
If I do try this though, I'd want to write it in French for her (since she's studying it, and it'll help as a measure agaisnt prying eyes), but....I've never learned French. So yeah. Help, anyone? Narona-chan?
I could.

Firstly, tell me the big lines of what you want to tell to her.

It might cause you some problems if I translate (using nice french words), for example, a text that makes her think that you want to marry her if you're not ready for that.

Words can leave a big impression if the lines have a deep meaning. So, I don't want to write something deep if it's not sincere on your side. It would only hurt her if she starts thinking that you became way more serious about your relationship.

Also, you can write a simple letter, or do some poetry Poetry using French can be nice.
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Old 2009-10-18, 03:26   Link #1940
synaesthetic
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bland View Post
I'm your typical 'nice guy.' I'm always there for a girl, I'm nice, funny, intelligent, and I never push girls around like the other guys. Yet I am unsuccessful, have yet to experience a date, let alone a kiss. I really like this one girl who is super duper freaking mega cute, but, I'm friendzone'd by every female friend I have.

Not to mention I have a case of depression that is untreatable by medication, along with an anxiety disorder, so I'm pretty much always sad about my whole situation.


Baww.
You aren't the kind of guy that gets them hot and bothered, with the butterflies in their stomach and all of that.

No, you're the kind of guy that they end up marrying later on in life, and then making a bunch of kids with.

So just be patient. When you're in your thirties, if you're reasonably attractive and not creepy, you'll be beating them off with a stick.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a lonely Christmas Cake myself. ^^;
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