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Old 2009-06-26, 10:59   Link #141
C.A.
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lol awesome stuff.

Free time traveling especially on vehicles or portable devices is impossible, but time traveling through portals and 'gates' are still possible. 'Wormhole' time or dimensional traveling can work because you'll be taken through the tunnel and exit from a gate which you can be sure you will not end up in a random part in space.

Unless that wormhole crosses the path of some super massive object, a giant blackhole or quasar and you get pulled out of the wormhole to death.
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Old 2009-06-26, 11:03   Link #142
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Free time traveling especially on vehicles or portable devices is impossible
Unless you have a transporter with intergalactic range that transports you to the destination. Though it also has to have a mechanism for dealing with the difference in the relative velocities between the destination and you.

Transporting from one ship going .1c to another ship going at .2c is dangerious, since when you come on board the second ship you're moving at half the speed of the ship you're on, meaning it's gonna hit you at .1c.
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Free time traveling especially on vehicles or portable devices is impossible, but time traveling through portals and 'gates' are still possible. 'Wormhole' time or dimensional traveling can work because you'll be taken through the tunnel and exit from a gate which you can be sure you will not end up in a random part in space.
Interestingly, this kind of time travel would explain why you never see time travelers. A time period needs to have time travel in order for a time traveler to travel to it.
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Old 2009-06-26, 11:42   Link #143
typhonsentra
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By the way, I don't know if we're supposed to read too much into the different position of Mars. They made a point of saying Nagato isn't effected because her consciousness isn't tied to a time or place. If the effects of Haruhi's power simply had a limited range they wouldn't have to note that. Most likely they just decided to go along with the change because it worked with their theme of tweaking repeated scenes without thinking of the implications. Also, Novel 1, Chapter 3:

Quote:
"Three years ago, we discovered a very abnormal data hotspot unlike other humans appearing on the surface of this planet. The information sparks emitted from a certain area in the bow-shaped archipelago instantly covered the whole planet and started to spread towards outer space. And the center of all that is Suzumiya Haruhi."
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Old 2009-06-26, 11:44   Link #144
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Unless you have a transporter with intergalactic range that transports you to the destination. Though it also has to have a mechanism for dealing with the difference in the relative velocities between the destination and you.

Transporting from one ship going .1c to another ship going at .2c is dangerious, since when you come on board the second ship you're moving at half the speed of the ship you're on, meaning it's gonna hit you at .1c.

Interestingly, this kind of time travel would explain why you never see time travelers. A time period needs to have time travel in order for a time traveler to travel to it.
Yea, free intergalactic/dimensional travel will need a universal database or control to work. Xenosaga had UMN, Nadesico had Boson Jumping ruins. Maybe the Time Travellers in Haruhi has something like that.

For dealing with relative speed, I'm sure it can be fixed easily when such technology becomes widespread.

There would be lots of rules and limitations on how you can travel. Normally in fiction, they must be sure that the coordinates they're traveling to has no obstacles. And when traveling you must make sure there's no significant mass around you that will get dragged into your warp.

For gate traveling, you may be transported into a free floating chamber only to be suspended by a magnetic field, or an inertia free chamber, many ways to solve relative speed.

Professor Ronald Malett, famous time travel theorist now working on a prototype time machine, knows that time travel will only bring you furthest in time to the time the machine is invented. This is the limitation of time traveling by sending through a machine. But he also says that if we were able to make contact with an alien civilisation way ahead of us in technology, we may be able to use their time machine to travel further back in time and return to our past Earth.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:17   Link #145
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But Haruhi seemed pretty up her *for want of a better phrase* space/time theories, if she has the power to loop time cant she just correct for the drift?
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:20   Link #146
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Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
But Haruhi seemed pretty up her *for want of a better phrase* space/time theories, if she has the power to loop time cant she just correct for the drift?
She has no idea what she has done since she has no knowledge of her own powers. She caused it subconsciously and now the guys have to find a way for her to solve it subconsciously, which they haven't figured out yet.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:26   Link #147
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Originally Posted by stubby42 View Post
But Haruhi seemed pretty up her *for want of a better phrase* space/time theories, if she has the power to loop time cant she just correct for the drift?
The simplest way to account for the drift would be just to wind back the entire universe.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:26   Link #148
stubby42
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Quote:
She has no idea what she has done since she has no knowledge of her own powers. She caused it subconsciously and now the guys have to find a way for her to solve it subconsciously, which they haven't figured out yet.
What I'm saying is Haruhi is correcting for the planet drifting out of alignment, if she knows all these scientific theories (which seems likely, shes probably obsessivly read everything) she could just be pushing it back sub consitiously.

Haruhi feels like this part of summer is a perfect moment in time, so they have to give her a reason to brake that loop which ultimatly is the suggestion of future happier moments.

Of course this is all speculation, the truth is the writers have probably never thought about the practicalities of time travel in that much detail, or if they did they chose to ignore it for the sake of the plot.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:30   Link #149
Forbin
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
The simplest way to account for the drift would be just to wind back the entire universe.
Man that probably just annoys Yuki's boss every time haruhi does that.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:30   Link #150
Roger Rambo
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Almost everyone ignores the issue of time travel that Atomic Robo pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
Man that probably just annoys Yuki's boss every time haruhi does that.
Not really. Since they can communicate through time, they don't lose anything. Plus the longer Haruhi keeps this up, the more time they have to observe her, especially since she's doing something really abnormal.

If anyone was annoyed at it, it was Yuki.
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Old 2009-06-26, 12:54   Link #151
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If anyone was annoyed at it, it was Yuki.
I wonder if any of the other interfaces were affected by this, actually.
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Old 2009-06-26, 13:11   Link #152
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I wonder if any of the other interfaces were affected by this, actually.
It seems probable.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:18   Link #153
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And about the extent of Haruhi's reset. I wonder if she only resets matter and not time itself. Or are Data Entities totally outside of time and reality of this universe.
Data Entities are Doc Manhattan. Yuki's memory exists completely outside of the timestream.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:23   Link #154
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Data Entities are Doc Manhattan. Yuki's memory exists completely outside of the timestream.
That is easily understandable. But the problem lies with the universe itself.

We already discuss and concluded earlier on that Haruhi resets the entire universe and not just Earth itself, because Earth would just get left out in space.

Imagine now, if Haruhi only resets the universe itself, the universe will very likely get thrown off in the multiverse space and over thousands of times of resets, a parallel universe will very likely crash into the universe.

Could it be that Haruhi resets the entire multiverse? If so, it would affect all levels of dimensional space, this may even affect the Data Entities themselves even though they are higher dimensional beings. Could Data Entities exist outside of reality itself?

lol just trying to complicate things for the fun of it.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:33   Link #155
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Parallel universes and the multiverse do not work that way. Since the universe is infinite, parallel universes simply occupy the same location in space-time.
Heh, seems like you didn't read my multiverse discussion last time. multiverses described by you do not exist, or rather, is only a part of the Level III multiverse.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

To be called a multiverse, there must be other universes floating free in a multiversal space. Even though the universe is infinite, its the infinite space of the multiverse that the universe is occupying. And a universe is only as large as its observable horizon or as far as the earliest light has traveled. Beyond that, lies other parallel universes.

Parallel universes occupying the same space/time is just a single universe, with higher or lower dimensions. This single multidimensional universe is also only just one of the infinite other universes floating in the multiverse.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:36   Link #156
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Heh, seems like you didn't read my multiverse discussion last time. multiverses described by you do not exist, or rather, is only a part of the Level III multiverse.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

To be called a multiverse, there must be other universes floating free in a multiversal space. Even though the universe is infinite, its the infinite space of the multiverse that the universe is occupying. And a universe is only as large as its observable horizon or as far as the earliest light has traveled. Beyond that, lies other parallel universes.

Parallel universes occupying the same space/time is just a single universe, with higher or lower dimensions. This single multidimensional universe is also only just one of the infinite other universes floating in the multiverse.
There's still no evidence they would crash into other universes.

But I can see Haruhi's powers certainly affecting EVERYTHING though.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:39   Link #157
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
There's still no evidence they would crash into other universes.

But I can see Haruhi's powers certainly affecting EVERYTHING though.
Oh, the wiki page is not detailed enough.

In fact even with a Level I Multiverse, universes collide all the time, and with Level II Multiverses and above, universes can also split apart infinitely, besides colliding.

When universes collide, its an event similar to a big bang, its a recreation of a universe.
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Old 2009-06-26, 17:58   Link #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
That is easily understandable. But the problem lies with the universe itself.

We already discuss and concluded earlier on that Haruhi resets the entire universe and not just Earth itself, because Earth would just get left out in space.

Imagine now, if Haruhi only resets the universe itself, the universe will very likely get thrown off in the multiverse space and over thousands of times of resets, a parallel universe will very likely crash into the universe.

Could it be that Haruhi resets the entire multiverse? If so, it would affect all levels of dimensional space, this may even affect the Data Entities themselves even though they are higher dimensional beings. Could Data Entities exist outside of reality itself?

lol just trying to complicate things for the fun of it.
So you mean like the TS device in Orguss that causes various universe to collapse in upon one another? In my eyes Haruhi is more like Angel in Big Venus, she takes the role of a director within the show and unconciously or not influences the events and can even reset everything if she wants or needs to. Though unlike a true god who is omnipotent and omniscient, she can be negotiated with or influenced by other people as she is still unaware of her powers. Other then that I guess you could call her a mutant. The Scarlet Witch comes to mind.
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Old 2009-06-26, 18:09   Link #159
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
So you mean like the TS device in Orguss that causes various universe to collapse in upon one another? In my eyes Haruhi is more like Angel in Big Venus, she takes the role of a director within the show and unconciously or not influences the events and can even reset everything if she wants or needs to. Though unlike a true god who is omnipotent and omniscient, she can be negotiated with or influenced by other people as she is still unaware of her powers. Other then that I guess you could call her a mutant. The Scarlet Witch comes to mind.
lolol we need more mecha fans to watch Haruhi, or more Haruhi fans to watch mecha, they don't know what they're missing.

Orguss's Time Oscillation Bomb is a good reference. Imagine if a universe receives a time quake of some sort and the dimensional walls collapse, the universes will merge. And if this time quake also freezes a universe in the multiversal space, it may be a good time for other universes to crash into it.

If Haruhi is Angel, Kyon is most definitely the Negotiator. The Great Will of the Universe could be the Data Entities, but the Data Entities have no real intention of messing around with the play.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2009-06-26, 18:45   Link #160
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
lolol we need more mecha fans to watch Haruhi, or more Haruhi fans to watch mecha, they don't know what they're missing.

Orguss's Time Oscillation Bomb is a good reference. Imagine if a universe receives a time quake of some sort and the dimensional walls collapse, the universes will merge. And if this time quake also freezes a universe in the multiversal space, it may be a good time for other universes to crash into it.

If Haruhi is Angel, Kyon is most definitely the Negotiator. The Great Will of the Universe could be the Data Entities, but the Data Entities have no real intention of messing around with the play.
We really do don't we. Considering the amount of Sci-Fi and tropes in this series it would go an incredibly long way. And yes Kyon is the Negotiator, though not quite the gentleman in black. The Data Entity is probably the Database from SRW-W.
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