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Old 2011-07-21, 22:42   Link #1741
Joly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno View Post
Spoiler for Counter:
Oops. Sorry. I should have worded it better, but you're right. How she described being on a rampage right after talking about her friends going mad gave me the impression she may have gone L5. But since she didn't specifically state it's L5, it's also possible she simply snapped for a short while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno View Post
Spoiler for Fine Line of Interpretation:
Even if she appears that she's not hallucinating, it's also possible to try to maintain calmness during a hallucination. (Though whether or not she's really hallucinating or not, we may never know...)

By "dramatic effect" do you mean it could have just been some delusion? That part was narrated from Shion's point of view (who was already going mad), so it could have been delusion from her eyes.

I actually think I asked this question in the past except we concluded that it wasn't a delusion that time. But after getting to read the VN, I'm back to thinking it was possibly a hallucination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantoku View Post
Spoiler for Before she clawed her throat out + other thoughts:
She threw her neck against the knife instead of her temple in the VN, then ripped open her throat.

I would think Rika would be immune to the disease because she's the Queen Carrier, but these little quotes in the VN throw me off and make me wonder if she can ever go L5. There's was also a very small bit during the Pieces where Rika is asking her father if even herself has disease. And he answers with a yes, but that's about it.

I'm a bit lazy right now to go back and search for an excerpt, but I thought it was her cerebrospinal fluid that was used to make Satoko's medication/C120?
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Old 2011-07-21, 22:51   Link #1742
Kantoku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joly View Post
I'm a bit lazy right now to go back and search for an excerpt, but I thought it was her cerebrospinal fluid that was used to make Satoko's medication/C120?
It's been awhile since I've deleted Matsuribayashi-hen from my computer (bad idea considering how I want to go back and look over the pieces) so I might be completely wrong about that. All I remember was that Rika was given money to go buy juice, and usually after getting blood drawn, the donor is given juice to restore their blood sugar, I think.
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Old 2011-07-21, 22:59   Link #1743
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Could Rika actually be beyond L5 (L6?) all the time? He can see Hanyuu and all that. So far beyond that she's no longer effected in a negative fashion, but still crazy?

(yes I've making stuff up)
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Old 2011-07-21, 23:04   Link #1744
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Question are you guys speaking of the anime or game? Does the game have a diffrent story line?
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Old 2011-07-21, 23:31   Link #1745
Joly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantoku View Post
It's been awhile since I've deleted Matsuribayashi-hen from my computer (bad idea considering how I want to go back and look over the pieces) so I might be completely wrong about that. All I remember was that Rika was given money to go buy juice, and usually after getting blood drawn, the donor is given juice to restore their blood sugar, I think.
I think the blood is just for examination. Here's the Piece (I just grabbed it from the Pieces list on the forum, so...) talking about the cerebral fluid extraction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleanimegirl View Post
Question are you guys speaking of the anime or game? Does the game have a diffrent story line?
Mostly talking about the game and making some comparisons to the anime adaption. The game has the same story line (but is more in-depth on things.)
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Old 2011-07-22, 00:06   Link #1746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Could Rika actually be beyond L5 (L6?) all the time? He can see Hanyuu and all that. So far beyond that she's no longer effected in a negative fashion, but still crazy?

(yes I've making stuff up)
In order to be that "crazy," it would be like hallucinating the very existence of Hanyuu (which by the point is the severest form of schizophrenia), and outside of Rika boiling down to some sort of Butterfly Effect, I've never heard of someone being crazy enough to go back in time. For Rika to be THAT far gone by 10-12, she would be by far the most mentally ill character in all of anime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joly View Post
By "dramatic effect" do you mean it could have just been some delusion? That part was narrated from Shion's point of view (who was already going mad), so it could have been delusion from her eyes.

I actually think I asked this question in the past except we concluded that it wasn't a delusion that time. But after getting to read the VN, I'm back to thinking it was possibly a hallucination.
I'm sorry, if you look at the time stamp for my post, I really wasted thinking clearly (and apparently not enough to proofread before posting). What I meant to say was:

Spoiler for Exhausted English to English Translation:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joly View Post
I would think Rika would be immune to the disease because she's the Queen Carrier, but these little quotes in the VN throw me off and make me wonder if she can ever go L5. There's was also a very small bit during the Pieces where Rika is asking her father if even herself has disease. And he answers with a yes, but that's about it.
Well, it doesn't seem like that big of a detail. I mean, we already know that everyone living in Hinamizawa is infected, and the Furude line is no different. The definition of a "carrier" is one that possesses an trait/illness but does not display any of the characteristics. That's why in the medical field, studying the carrier (or Patient Zero) is so important: it allows scientists to understand how a disease or trait travels through an organism or population.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joly View Post
I'm a bit lazy right now to go back and search for an excerpt, but I thought it was her cerebrospinal fluid that was used to make Satoko's medication/C120?
Again, this make neurological sense. The parasite (supposedly in the brain) effects the 5 senses during hallucinations and L5, so using the cerebrospinal fluid of a healthy compatible individual would have to mitigate whatever neurotoxin the parasite emits. This is why C120 is a medication, and not a "cure" - Dr. Irie has yet to actually isolate what in the parasite emits the neurotoxin or how to kill the parasite while leaving the host brain intact. As such, Rika MAY be immune (possibly due to the pheromone secretion), but that may just be a stop-gap (if she somehow stopped producing the pheromone, she too might elevate). This allows both theories to exist (at least in this context), but in order to absolutely verify/disprove Rika's immunity, Irie would have to biopsy her brain tissue, and that kind of technology just isn't available in the early 1980's (at least with keeping Rika alive and healthy).
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Old 2011-07-22, 08:40   Link #1747
Kantoku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno View Post
In order to be that "crazy," it would be like hallucinating the very existence of Hanyuu (which by the point is the severest form of schizophrenia), and outside of Rika boiling down to some sort of Butterfly Effect, I've never heard of someone being crazy enough to go back in time. For Rika to be THAT far gone by 10-12, she would be by far the most mentally ill character in all of anime.
And then that can reach into the famous debate of how to interpret Higurashi in a real way (i.e. all worlds are fake except Rei and everything is Rika's hallucinations, club-game Mion never really having existed, etc, etc.) save for another day! I saw very many interesting theories on Higu's discussion page on TVTropes that used the Syndrome as a reason.

Also...

Spoiler for Hallucination vs Perception:

Last edited by Kantoku; 2011-07-22 at 09:34.
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Old 2011-07-22, 11:29   Link #1748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantoku View Post
Spoiler for Hallucination vs Perception:
Spoiler for First Season Bookends:
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Old 2011-07-22, 14:09   Link #1749
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Kantoku:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-07-22, 15:35   Link #1750
Oblivion
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I noticed something after rereading Minorgorishi-hen again. It's after Rika lets in Takano and Tomitake into the Shrine. After Takano calls Hanyuu a monster, Hanyuu stomps her foot and apparently Tomitake can hear her? It was almost exactly like the time Shion heard Hanyuu.



But according to Hinamizawa syndrome, only at L5 can your senses be sensetive enough to hear Hanyuu. But later on Takano says he's only at L3. So I wonder how he can hear her?

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Old 2011-07-22, 20:01   Link #1751
Meri-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion0101 View Post
But according to Hinamizawa syndrome, only at L5 can your senses be sensetive enough to hear Hanyuu. But later on Takano says he's only at L3. So I wonder how he can hear her?
Could I ask where it says that only at L5 that you can be sensitive enough to hear Hanyuu? Satoshi was around L3~L4 back in 1982, and before he went full on terminal L5 he was able to hear the footsteps too.

That being said, the vaccine that Tomitake was given is likely to be a placebo. Considering his job, it's not unlikely that he has a good amount of stress on his shoulders (being auditor is suffering) and so the activation of the syndrome would be easy. Or it could be an early version of the H170 series that doesn't fully activate the syndrome's terminal stages (H170 goes straight to L5, since Takano injected it into Tomitake and then knocked him out so that when he woke up it would take affect - before that, he did not show very many symptoms. This is the scenario that happened in Minagoroshi-hen) .
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Old 2011-07-23, 00:15   Link #1752
Kantoku
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@rogerpepitone and spawnofthejudge - Gyah, how could I forget that ><; shame on me as a fan!

@Oblivion0101 - You don't necessarily have to be L5 to be able to hear Hanyuu's footsteps. Shion and also Rena heard her footsteps before they hit L5 as well, I think.
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Old 2011-07-23, 04:01   Link #1753
Oblivion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meri-chan View Post
Could I ask where it says that only at L5 that you can be sensitive enough to hear Hanyuu? Satoshi was around L3~L4 back in 1982, and before he went full on terminal L5 he was able to hear the footsteps too.

That being said, the vaccine that Tomitake was given is likely to be a placebo. Considering his job, it's not unlikely that he has a good amount of stress on his shoulders (being auditor is suffering) and so the activation of the syndrome would be easy. Or it could be an early version of the H170 series that doesn't fully activate the syndrome's terminal stages (H170 goes straight to L5, since Takano injected it into Tomitake and then knocked him out so that when he woke up it would take affect - before that, he did not show very many symptoms. This is the scenario that happened in Minagoroshi-hen) .
Maybe not necessarily L5 but defintely not L3. If that were the case the Satoko, who was already at L3 before treatment would be able to hear Hanyuu since she lives with Rika everyday anways. But not once did she notice her. And yes I know the vaccination Tomitake was given was a fake but he was already in L3 BEFORE Takano gave him the injection. As you said he could have easily activated the syndrome due to stress and it was not because Takano gave him the H170.

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Old 2011-07-23, 08:08   Link #1754
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Question How can i translate the Onikakushi-hen ? (in german)

Hi,
me and a friend are going to translate the Onikakushi-hen in german but there are some problems. Google is not our friend and i have been looking for a long time for programms and threads that might be helpfull. But we didn't get any answers
We tried some things out, but it was unsuccesfull
Please us
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Old 2011-07-25, 07:19   Link #1755
PBsaffran
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Hello OneCloud,
can you contact me privately? I can give you a few tips regarding this.
google my nickname, you should be able to find several email adresses.

As for the debate over L3 or L5 and hearing Hanyű, it is specified in Minagoroshi chapter 3, near the end. (discussion at night between Rika and Hanyű)
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Old 2011-07-26, 02:13   Link #1756
Meri-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion0101 View Post
Maybe not necessarily L5 but defintely not L3. If that were the case the Satoko, who was already at L3 before treatment would be able to hear Hanyuu since she lives with Rika everyday anways. But not once did she notice her. And yes I know the vaccination Tomitake was given was a fake but he was already in L3 BEFORE Takano gave him the injection. As you said he could have easily activated the syndrome due to stress and it was not because Takano gave him the H170.

Kantoku: Yeah you're right I forgot about Rena as well. Guess that answers my question.
That's not true. At one point, right after Irie's staff is reviewing the results of the first vivisection, there's a scene with Satoko and Satoshi. Satoko stops and says "Just now, did you hear an extra footstep?"
Spoiler for large image:


At this point you could argue she's not fully L5 yet, but still is showing symptoms of paranoia due to the Houjou family being ostracized from the village and the stress of her family.

So with that, Satoshi's case, and Tomitake's L3 symptoms, I think it's safe to assume that from L3~L5 you can hear her.

[/five minutes after writing this]
....

Wait, you already got that answered... Oh well. I guess this is just some further clarification I suppose. Sorry about that. /runs and hides in a cave somewhere in embarrassment
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Old 2011-07-30, 17:29   Link #1757
Kantoku
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Question about Tatarigoroshi-hen, now that I finally got to reading the VN version...

Spoiler for Mion / Shion:
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Old 2011-07-30, 20:32   Link #1758
Meri-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantoku View Post
Question about Tatarigoroshi-hen, now that I finally got to reading the VN version...

Spoiler for Mion / Shion:
Spoiler for yep:
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Old 2011-08-21, 04:07   Link #1759
TheWitch0fDivinty
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Question

Quote:
Everyone has a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to be given that right.

Everyone has a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to fulfill that right.

I too have a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to work out a compromise for that right.

-Frederica Bernkastel
Fanmade translation...

Quote:
Everyone is entitled to happiness
The difficult part is accepting that

Everyone is entitled to happiness
The difficult part is fulfilling that

I, too, have a right to happiness
The difficult part is making a compromise
I don't know how to feel about this translation because the significants changes greatly. Which one fits the actaul meaning of that poem, the fanmade or the Mangagamer one?
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Old 2011-08-21, 16:34   Link #1760
Meri-chan
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I have a question- I'm not sure if it was addressed earlier in the thread (I certainly do not wish to shovel through 88 pages to see if it was) but in Tatarigoroshi-hen did the Yamainu dig up Teppei's corpse and dispose of it properly? I can't remember if it was ever confirmed but I'm thinking it was implied because of Takano saying "did you dispose of the body correctly". Then of course, Keiichi goes to the burial site afterwards and finds no body afterwards, but he could've easily have been mistaken and gone to the wrong area to dig. Could someone help out?
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