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Old 2006-09-15, 04:57   Link #61
SilentKnight
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Managed to get ahold of Servants In Heaven, Kings In Hell (or whatever the hell the name is, I'm close enough)

Pretty good stuff worth checking out, even though I still think it could've been a bit better. Vinnie Paz is getting somewhat repetitive nowadays, but you can definitely tell that he's trying to mix up his style and incorporate other elements and topics on this album.
I've yet to give the whole album a good and thorough run through, but so far I'm liking the instrumentals and lyrical content.

Aside from the JMT album, I also managed to get ahold of Lupe Fiasco's Food And Liquor. In terms of rapping, Fiasco does a pretty good job of holding it down with content, flow, and delivery. In terms of beats, there were a few tracks that I just wasn't feeling, or rather that I didn't feel they fit the overall tune of the album.
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Old 2006-09-15, 10:18   Link #62
gencbiba
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Hip Hop isn't exactly like Rap (don't know if anyone brought this up cause I didn't read any other posts). Personally, I think Rap has more of a stress on lyrics rather than the beat while Hip Hop is straight out sick beats with lyrics. 80s Hip Hop is definitely the shit when it comes to beats but now everything is just played out, and stupid. As far as Dipset, they were pretty cool when I used to listen to Rap but now I listen to Beatles.... heh...
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Old 2006-09-15, 14:54   Link #63
SilentKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gencbiba
Hip Hop isn't exactly like Rap (don't know if anyone brought this up cause I didn't read any other posts). Personally, I think Rap has more of a stress on lyrics rather than the beat while Hip Hop is straight out sick beats with lyrics. 80s Hip Hop is definitely the shit when it comes to beats but now everything is just played out, and stupid. As far as Dipset, they were pretty cool when I used to listen to Rap but now I listen to Beatles.... heh...
Copied from my post on the previous page:

wrong, almost every person that I have encountered makes this mistake.

So I guess I'll state it for the 897456987345876th time.

Hip Hop is the urban culture that the musical genre rap comes from.
Hip Hop is composed of four main elements, though in recent years the art of beatboxing has developed into somewhat of a fifth element of hip hop.
But anyways, the four main elements currently are:
1. Breakdancing/ B-boying
2. Grafitti artwork/ tagging
3. Turntable-ism
4. Emceeing/ Rapping

Rap is rap no matter how you look at it, people try to split rap from hip hop by defining rap as crunk, club, etc. and hip hop as more conscious stuff.
The proper way of dividing and categorizing rap however would be:
Rap is a part of hip hop, end of story. They're not different genres, they're different things period. Apples and oranges.
- If you want to get somewhat specific, you can divide rap into crunk, club, southern, conscious, political, gangster, abstract, etc.

And don't even bother dividing rap into a mainstream= whack and underground= talented type of classification. There's both good and bad artists in both the mainstream (Talib Kweli, Nas) and the underground (Apathy, JMT).
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Old 2006-09-15, 17:40   Link #64
gencbiba
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Interesting... Never really knew the genre of Hip Hop had those many elements.... But, the Breakdancing/ B-boying, and Grafitti artwork/ tagging are the best imo.
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Old 2006-09-16, 11:23   Link #65
Kyousuke
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Prince Paul - Psychoanalysis
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
Edan - Beauty and the Beat
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
Ultramagnetic MCs - Critical Beatdown
Black Sheep - A Wolf in Sheep's Cothing
Organized Konfusion - Organized Konfusion
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
3rd Bass - The Cactus Album
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Old 2006-09-16, 16:23   Link #66
retardation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentKnight
Managed to get ahold of Servants In Heaven, Kings In Hell (or whatever the hell the name is, I'm close enough)

Pretty good stuff worth checking out, even though I still think it could've been a bit better. Vinnie Paz is getting somewhat repetitive nowadays, but you can definitely tell that he's trying to mix up his style and incorporate other elements and topics on this album.
I've yet to give the whole album a good and thorough run through, but so far I'm liking the instrumentals and lyrical content.

Aside from the JMT album, I also managed to get ahold of Lupe Fiasco's Food And Liquor. In terms of rapping, Fiasco does a pretty good job of holding it down with content, flow, and delivery. In terms of beats, there were a few tracks that I just wasn't feeling, or rather that I didn't feel they fit the overall tune of the album.

i feel the same way about both these joints. the jmt album had good production but it got old for me real quick. i think the group kinda went down the drain after jus allah left. RA the rugged man's verse was crazy on that though.

as for food and liquor, did you hear the advance? i think the advance for food and liquor is a lot better than the retail version. like you heard ghetto story and the original intro song? hit me up on aim if you want me to discuss with you how you can get those in a totally legal and non copywrite infringing way.

i dunno if i like too many albums this year but my fav record from this year is bronze nazareth's 'the great migration'. if you like the old time wu-tang sound, i'd say this album really fits that more than any album that's come out since supreme clientele.

other artists i'm feeling at the moment:

nas
jayz
common
saigon
immortal technique
lupe fiasco
pharoahe monch
wu-tang (esp ghostface, gza and deck)
bronze nazareth
one below
az
slum village/elzhi
sean price/heltah skeltah
the roots
tragedy khadafi
joe budden
royce 5'9
killah priest/black market militia
.......probably forgetting some others

other older/deceased artists i like are
tupac
gang starr
outkast
big l
big pun
etc. etc. too lazy to continue

Last edited by retardation; 2006-09-16 at 17:44.
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Old 2006-09-16, 18:17   Link #67
Samourai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentKnight
Managed to get ahold of Servants In Heaven, Kings In Hell (or whatever the hell the name is, I'm close enough)

Pretty good stuff worth checking out, even though I still think it could've been a bit better. Vinnie Paz is getting somewhat repetitive nowadays, but you can definitely tell that he's trying to mix up his style and incorporate other elements and topics on this album.
I've yet to give the whole album a good and thorough run through, but so far I'm liking the instrumentals and lyrical content.

Aside from the JMT album, I also managed to get ahold of Lupe Fiasco's Food And Liquor. In terms of rapping, Fiasco does a pretty good job of holding it down with content, flow, and delivery. In terms of beats, there were a few tracks that I just wasn't feeling, or rather that I didn't feel they fit the overall tune of the album.



i got Servents in heaven as well, STOUPE IS AMAZING!!!!! as good as ever, but vinnie paz is played out by now, i cant stand him, but stoupe is a genious...
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Old 2006-09-17, 00:46   Link #68
retardation
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someone should contract stoupe for an anime soundtrack
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Old 2006-09-17, 08:51   Link #69
Lucis
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Yeah... Rap

Who wouldn't like rap... It's the "thing" that makes the world go round.

Did you get me?

Okay. Shutting up.
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Old 2006-09-17, 16:03   Link #70
SilentKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retardation
someone should contract stoupe for an anime soundtrack
someone should have contracted him for the Samurai Champloo soundtrack

but yea, having Stoupe do tracks for an anime would definitely be kickass.
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Old 2006-09-18, 03:03   Link #71
Electroguy
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I'm afraid I like music so I don't waste my time listening to commercial rap/r&b like 50 cent/G-unit/the game/chamillionaire or anything else that may fall under that catergory.

That entire scene is just milking the 13 year old boys who think being black armed and angry is the pinacle of cool.

As a producer I listen to everything as long as its good. From my journeys into the hip-hop side of things....(which I always found was style over substance, or concerning the modern commerical scene, marketting over taste.) I found a lot of good stuff in the sub-genres of Glitch-Hop, Trip-Hop & Indie Hop.

Not gonna explain each section cuz its early and I feel like my lungs are collapsing.

Prefuse 73
Dabyre
Buck 65
Sixtoo
Sebutones
DJ Shadow
Controller 7
Deep Puddle Dynamics
Dose One
Sage Francis
Why?
Odd Nosdam (producer but still worth mentioning)
Aesop Rock
Alias
CloudDead
Jedi Mind Tricks

Apart from that I have a soft spot for the old classics. 1980's kinda skate-core hip hop.
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Old 2006-09-18, 16:14   Link #72
retardation
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i think criticizing commercial rap is so 1998...

i think you find a lot of good, skilled, well-thought-out, product, maybe even with artistic value in the realm of 'commercial' hip hop artists (though i would argue that g-unit is not one of the entities displaying this) and you also do get as much redundancy on the underground/avante garde scenes (though i know didn't say there was).

artists like lupe fiasco, the roots, common, nas, jay-z, etc. etc. are all on major labels and even if they are putting out a lot of rehashed club musical fanservice (nas and jay-z for example), in addition to that, these artists are still making a lot of well put together songs with superior lyricism. it's probably the case that most of the better actual rappers in the game right now are in fact on major labels right now.

like even on a musical level, even if you like those sorts of beats more... as far as technical rapping, including flow and all the musical aspects of rapping, those anticon type dudes are really lacking compared to most commercial artists. i'm no fan of say 50 cent but just on a musical level at least he can rap on beat which is more than i can say for a lot of those anticon characters. i mean if that's what you're into cool, but it's not cool to try and stand above everyone and say well 'i'm afraid i like music' so i don't like xyz artist.
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Old 2006-09-18, 18:25   Link #73
Electroguy
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Its not cool for you to try and tell me whats cool or not. :lol:

I'm an elitist when it comes to any art form im passionate about and music just happens to be top of the list, Im not going to type out pandering posts about how valid and "real" this genre is because I know its artistically devoid of any substance. Opinion is irrelevant here, im talking about facts.

Complexity, diversity, ability,composition, production. ALL are sub standard in 90% of mainstream rap/hip-hop.

Out of the examples you gave i'll concede The Roots but i never thought of them as particularly commercial. Jay-z has done a lot for the scene and 10 years ago his work was relevant but I wouldnt rate anything he's spat out since then. The other examples quoted are all pretty weak.Common's ok....

As to you're critique of anticon i've got to call you up on it.

Dose 1 was the undisputed "rap" champion of the world for a good while, you can't compare his lyrical ability to anything commercial like the guys we've been discussing. Some artists on the anticon roster are weaker than others but thats to be expected.

I think its apparent we have different opinions on what constitutes good rap music. Rapping to a steady beat isn't difficult when the beats are simplistic and static in time formation. As for flow I have to disagree, its not a good thing that music becomes so simple that it becomes easy to pick out an established beat pattern and nod your head in synch while talking about benign subjects such as:

"Riding Dirty"
"Visitng a candy shop"
"Ho's"

All the major label acts are only big because they're riding the R&B/Rap/commercial Hip-Hop wave, they wouldn't be anything if every teenage boy and girl in America & Europe didnt need somewhere to spend their allowance on the weekend.

Anticon is a poke at the mainstream, thats the entire thesis behind it. Its offbeat/bluesy hip hop. Its not even really comparable to "rap" as only really Dose One & Sage francis are actually "rappers" and they were both record holders on the global stage in their own right.

I think we can sum this up nicely with this:

"If you want something trendy and easily accessible with a nice little beat and some outrageous lyrics perhaps even some nice african ladies sucking on spanners and covered in baby oil on the front cover then by all means go to your record store and by the latest "Generic Rap Name" CD."
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Old 2006-09-19, 14:47   Link #74
retardation
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there's a lot of points for me to address so it's kind of hard for me to figure out where to begin...

i mean never wanted to defent 90+% of mainstream hip hop because i personally don't like 90% of it. i do, however, feel that the best hip hop both in my opinion and in the opinion of an informed objective observer (or closest there could be to an objective observer) lies in the mainstream and shallow mainstream (e.g. mixtape scene, major indy scene).

you saying "Complexity, diversity, ability,composition, production" may apply to the majority of stuff that plays on bet but the artists i listed and many more on the mainstream level are at the height of these things.

you wanna talk about those qualities and then pick anticon and their peers as the group to follow when they have pretty much abandoned most of those thing, especially in the mcing category. i mean i like anticon production but there isn't anything particularly innovative about it really. it tends to sample from white music sources more than black music sources but that's about it. as far as the beats anticon members actually rap over, they're really not that much harder to rap over in terms of timing etc. a guy like lupe fiasco manages to maintain his flow over all different timing sorts while anticon members still struggle with regular 4/4 beats. i mean that whole flowing over harder beats argument is kinda out the window... those guys flow poorly over beats with the same timing.

that brings me to another main point in that before you can come out doing some abstract whatever, you should at least prove you can meet the conventional standards first. the only anticon affiliate that really is in the realm of being on the level of people like jay-z, black thought, andre ben, etc. in terms of rhyme schemes is sage francis but he's not as good at it as they are (plus he borrowed a lot from them to begin with). flow-wise he is going for the exact same effect as those guys but he can't really stay with their flow. (i also remember sole back in the day making a big deal of how he could rap conventionally if he wanted... i heard him and it was pretty laughablel).

the rest of anticon are a lot of guys who just do some weird crap without any root in rap conventions. the fact is it's harder to rap following conventions than it is not to. if you want to be objective, a guy like doseone isn't on the map because he's not even playing the game by the rules. there's no degree of difficulty in what this guy does because there's no standard. if you compare that to say elzhi from slum village, anyone who knows a little about rapping can listen to elzhi and appreciate the degree of difficulty in what he's doing.

anticon and friends do touch on a lot of subject matter that you might find a little more interesting because of your personal background or whatever but i mean subject matter is a bit of a sketchy thing to try and base your objective opinion of better and worse on. though they might talk about different things, they aren't necessarily much deeper or anything. if somebody like jay-z comes out with another verse about dealing coke or whatever and he puts creative imagery, wordplay, rhymeschemes, flow etc. into it at least i can say that that was a difficult verse, it was pleasing to the ear, rapper wxyz couldn't have made that verse on their best day.

and then as far as dose one or sage francis being world record holders or whatever... i don't even know what you're talking about. i assume you might be referring to them winning titles at scribble jam... titles at scribble jam/battle being about as meaningful as winning a high school slam dunk contest would be to your clout as an nba player.
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Old 2006-09-19, 19:36   Link #75
Electroguy
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Well I suppose what we come down to then is difference of personal taste.

I like a lot of the freeform quirky kinda of rapping. I feel like the stuff thats on MTV at the moment has been done to death and there isn't a lot of variety between the styles of the artists in question.

I agree with you on the culture point, Im not part of the real urban scene but I know music and while it may appeal to some people the majority of commercial rap/r&b/hip-hop is technically monotonous and unadventerous.

I dont know what anticon you've been listenin to but you're obviously really into your hip hop...are you up for a 5 track battle?

Send me 5 tracks that you think are undeniably good and i'll do the same.

If not thats cool. Im a little baked.....
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Old 2006-09-19, 22:32   Link #76
retardation
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sure if you want. i mean i'm not really trying to support stuff necessarily on mtv or whatever. i haven't listened to radio in years. i mean even if commercial artists even do put out anything good, it's probably not their radio single.

add me to your aim list: tetrabriqq or whatever other client, that should be in my profile now

and it's not that i'm even against anticon or anything. i used to listen to them some time ago but i think i just sorta grew out of them. they do have some good producers and sage francis is probably one of the best writers in hip hop (even if his actual rapping is pretty questionable)
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Old 2006-09-20, 03:14   Link #77
SilentKnight
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actually retardation, I've gotta speak up about one thing.

Winning Scribble Jam is actually quite a prestigious title considering that winning Scribble Jam is seen as the greatest possible honor in the underground rap circuit.

It might not do much in terms of major record labels wanting to sign you or anything but it sure as hell wins you a lot of respect from the more hip hop educated audience.
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Old 2006-09-20, 04:07   Link #78
night train
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Hip hop in mainstream has been dead for a while now. The garbage on the radio is just that garbage. No messages or thought invoking rhymes. The underground scene is still strong to a point but still weak compare to the past. I found myself listening to the tracks from the mid 90-late 90's now, instead of looking for new MC's. Because even the underground is somewhat tainted with a slight taste of the commercial raps now. There's no more MC's like could stand up and deliver the goods anymore. How many can you name that can hold a candle to say Talib or Mos? Hip Hop is not only about telling it like it is but also sends a message to the masses and I fail to see that in the game now. Even if they tried to send a message, it's only done for more radio play i.e The Game (pfft...a joke in my book). By the way, no offense or nothing but please don't mix Nas in a same group as Jayz. Sure, Nas has some commercial tracks but do you honestly believe that the record company will release his album without a couple of radio friendly hits? Jay, on the other hand, have complete controll over what he wants on his album and guess what? It's all commercial jams. Also the rumor is that Nas's next album is titled "Hip hop is dead" and rightfully so because it is dead.
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Old 2006-09-20, 05:41   Link #79
SilentKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night train
There's no more MC's like could stand up and deliver the goods anymore. How many can you name that can hold a candle to say Talib or Mos?
Metal Face Doom
Black Thought
Common
Immortal Technique
Blackalicious
Method Man
Lupe Fiasco
RA The Rugged Man
Sean Price
Reef The Lost Cause
Sage Francis
Del The Funky Homosapien
Pharoahe Monch
Rise
Esoteric
Iron Solomon
TheSaurus
iLLmacuLate
Rakim
Ras Kass
Tonedeff
The Cunninlynguists
PackFM
Atmosphere
Adeem / Glue
Gift Of Gab
C Rayz Walz
Royce da 5'9"
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Old 2006-09-20, 20:53   Link #80
night train
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentKnight
Metal Face Doom
Common
Method Man
Lupe Fiasco
Del The Funky Homosapien
Pharoahe Monch
These are the only ones on that list I respect and listen to. Pharoache Monch and Method man is on the borderline though. They been doing the same thing for a while now with not much change in their style. Del and Common Sense is old school and deserves the respect. The rest on that list still boasts about how many time they can shoot you with their imaginary guns. Though it's sad how Royce was buried for telling the truth.
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