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Old 2003-12-23, 00:12   Link #21
Esperchld
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Yes, it is true. Yes it is also true that it is a good heatsink (unless you overclock). It is also the only way to keep a warranty on an AMD processor. Using any other fan will void it (or that is what the lit that came with mine said).

As a student you may be able to get the OS and what not free. M$ had/has an agreement with many schools where you can check out some of their software for free. Both schools that I attend have one of these. You should be able to get XP and office and what not for free.

I use a gForce 4 4200, 512 meg ram, an XP 2400+ as my system and can safely say that I very rarely run into problems with any of the current games as long as I don't get too greedy on resolution (Halo and DX2 both eat system resources like a bitch, but then again I am running Win2k which is NOT built for gaming so that might be the problem).
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Old 2003-12-23, 01:08   Link #22
Thelastguardian
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even my P3 800 + 128mb 133mhz + ge4mx 400 plays Halo at 30fps with medium quality (no dx8), so don't worry about 'too slow'.

As for the retail version heres the link from AMD offical website
https://aac.avnet.com/AMDstore/shop.jsp
Quote:
What's in the Box?

The AMD processor of choice
Heatsink and fan, properly sized for the processor's thermal needs
Assembly and installation instructions
AMD processor case sticker
Double processor packaging allows higher impact resistance adding more protection
A three-year limited warranty
Certificate of Authenticity
If you want to you can use your standard heatsnk to oc a bit, the offical heatsink+fan does a much better job than most of the heatsinks in the market.
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Old 2003-12-23, 01:25   Link #23
p3psi
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the retail pack has no thermal grease?

Im thinking about just replacing my mother board with 8xagp so i can use a geforce 5600 or radion 9600and just keeping my xp2000+

I have pc2100 memory, whats the best mobo i can get around 100 for that price? intergrated sound and lan also?

and, how hard is it to take out a mobo from a case, and then take out my cpu, and place it in the new one, and reinstall my mobo?

if i do this, i'll probally save like 250 bucks not buying a new case, hd, cd drive, memory, and cpu.

also if i did this, ill probally be sweating bullets when i try to take out my cpu and try not to break anything or do some static charge damage!
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Old 2003-12-23, 15:55   Link #24
Thelastguardian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
the retail pack has no thermal grease?
The AMD retail version doesnt use traditional thermal grease, instead they use sort of a pad like subtrait that is already pasted on the heatsink. When you turn your computer on after you install your heatsink, the heat will melt the pad and the pad will act as thermal grease.

Quote:
Im thinking about just replacing my mother board with 8xagp so i can use a geforce 5600 or radion 9600and just keeping my xp2000+
Dont bother, AGP8x will only give ou 1-3% of speed increase, I rather you buy a new cpu.

Quote:
I have pc2100 memory, whats the best mobo i can get around 100 for that price? intergrated sound and lan also?
If you only want DDR 266 support, KT333 or even KT266 will suit you fine. For KT333 you can often get them under $60 US on internet.

Quote:
and, how hard is it to take out a mobo from a case, and then take out my cpu, and place it in the new one, and reinstall my mobo?
All are pretty easy, you only need to be careful about static electricity on your carpet or whatever surface you are working on when you are taking them out. As for putting them back together you have to be careful
1. not to crack your motherboard when you are installing cards
2. not to crush your cpu+motherboard when installing the heatsink. One of my friend just crushed his P4 1.8 when he messed around with the heatsink. The manufactures made it so damn hard to install heatsinks for some reason....you need to be pretty rough to install them.

Quote:
also if i did this, ill probally be sweating bullets when i try to take out my cpu and try not to break anything or do some static charge damage!
Well good luck XD
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Old 2003-12-23, 16:32   Link #25
p3psi
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So having a geforce 5600 or radeon 9600 running at 4xagp is just as good as 8xagp?

if so, it looks like the only thing i have to change is my video card, guess i dont have to worry about breaking anything after all

oh, and go with the radeon over geforce no matter what?
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Last edited by p3psi; 2003-12-23 at 19:34.
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Old 2003-12-23, 21:09   Link #26
Thelastguardian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
So having a geforce 5600 or radeon 9600 running at 4xagp is just as good as 8xagp?
basicly yes, you will get bigger increase of performance by changing the ram to ddr400 than changing from 4x to 8x.

Quote:
oh, and go with the radeon over geforce no matter what?
frankly it depends, if you cant afford a radeon 9800XT but wants something better than a radeon 9600XT, choose GeforceFX 5800, it is very solid in performance and the price is getting close to 9600. For middle range buy 9600 no matter what, 5600 is getting own in this catagory. For low ends either 5200 or 9200 is fine, although I am more to the side of 9200 (just my personnal preference).
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Old 2003-12-23, 22:07   Link #27
p3psi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordwu
I believe most of the components can be found at lower prices. For example, don't buy any HD higher than 50 cents per gig. 512M ram for $120 seems at the higher end as well. Even a decent case and power can be found for around $40 or so. Check Fatwallet Forum constantly for latest deals.
I just check that sight, 38 bucks for a 80 gig hd, somethings fishy...

just checked it out, i dont think you're ever going to find a "real" hd for $.50 a gig, the merchant "dumpinggrouds" skews all the prices, and thier reviews are horrific. plus, the less than $.50 a gig price is before they add $10 shipping.
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Last edited by p3psi; 2003-12-23 at 22:23.
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Old 2003-12-23, 22:48   Link #28
corp20
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Corps older brother here and I build custom PCs so I though I would chime in.
Building a Gaming rig on the cheap is rather hard but it all depends on what you want to do with it/ play. Doing a quick looksie and I can build one for around $700, but heres the best part my favorite two words (say it with me now) OVER-CLOCKING. That's right ladies and gents overclocking, the time honored geek tradition of getting the best back for your hard earned green. Buy the best componets in your price range and then turn that measle $700 kitten into a $1500 beast!
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Old 2003-12-24, 08:17   Link #29
Cruzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corp20
Corps older brother here and I build custom PCs so I though I would chime in.
Building a Gaming rig on the cheap is rather hard but it all depends on what you want to do with it/ play. Doing a quick looksie and I can build one for around $700, but heres the best part my favorite two words (say it with me now) OVER-CLOCKING. That's right ladies and gents overclocking, the time honored geek tradition of getting the best back for your hard earned green. Buy the best componets in your price range and then turn that measle $700 kitten into a $1500 beast!
Overclocking is actually a single word . Anyway, frankly I'd rather not overclock a low price range system because the components generally aren't particularly high quality and the cooling often sucks nuts (AMD stock cooler....ugghhhh, the horror!).
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Old 2003-12-24, 08:28   Link #30
Shinobu_Maehara
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In Holland Computers are much cheaper
250 ($300)

http://www2.alternate.nl/html/nodes_info/sjbv06.html

this is just a basic system without OS, monitor and keyboard+mouse.
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Old 2003-12-24, 09:37   Link #31
Cruzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobu_Maehara
In Holland Computers are much cheaper
250 ($300)

http://www2.alternate.nl/html/nodes_info/sjbv06.html

this is just a basic system without OS, monitor and keyboard+mouse.
Uhm, that computer is in a completely different performance class as what has been listed here so far. Crappy integrated graphics and crappy integrated sound is definitely not something you want for gaming. A 1400MHz Duron wasn't top of the line 2 years ago, much less now and 256MB RAM is low by any standard, even my 5 year old PC has that much memory.
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Old 2003-12-24, 10:12   Link #32
Shinobu_Maehara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzz
Uhm, that computer is in a completely different performance class as what has been listed here so far. Crappy integrated graphics and crappy integrated sound is definitely not something you want for gaming. A 1400MHz Duron wasn't top of the line 2 years ago, much less now and 256MB RAM is low by any standard, even my 5 year old PC has that much memory.
I know it's not a top-of-the-line computer, but what do you expect for 250 bucks? :P
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Old 2003-12-24, 10:19   Link #33
Cruzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobu_Maehara
I know it's not a top-of-the-line computer, but what do you expect for 250 bucks? :P
I don't expect much anything for 300 bucks, but that computer is pretty much limited to playing Minesweeper and Solitaire. It wouldn't have been top of the line two and a half years ago and it certainly isn't adequate for any kind of reasonably modern game.
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Old 2003-12-24, 11:43   Link #34
Rama
seen Beautiful Life yet?
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oldenburg, Germany
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by corp20
Corps older brother here and I build custom PCs so I though I would chime in.
Building a Gaming rig on the cheap is rather hard but it all depends on what you want to do with it/ play. Doing a quick looksie and I can build one for around $700, but heres the best part my favorite two words (say it with me now) OVER-CLOCKING. That's right ladies and gents overclocking, the time honored geek tradition of getting the best back for your hard earned green. Buy the best componets in your price range and then turn that measle $700 kitten into a $1500 beast!
That's the way to go. My 50 Athlon 1800+ still runs fine as ~3000+
Saved me 400 at that time...
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Old 2003-12-24, 12:13   Link #35
p3psi
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overclocking by 1.2ghz? what kind of cooling do you have, liquid nitrogen?
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Old 2003-12-24, 22:05   Link #36
Rama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
overclocking by 1.2ghz? what kind of cooling do you have, liquid nitrogen?
Nope, from 1533 to 2200MHz. AMD just labels them 1800+, it doesn't run at that speed.
The point is that todays Athlons should all be able to run at 2000MHz, even the very
cheap ones
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Old 2003-12-24, 22:51   Link #37
Tboz
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Woh... the lengendary JIUHB DLT3C?

I am planning to go hunt for it too, or a NIUHB will do as well.
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Old 2003-12-24, 22:58   Link #38
Rama
seen Beautiful Life yet?
 
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Hmm, I don't know.. But I know of 4 different chips that perform the same way.
Just look for the second line, 5th character has to be a "B".
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Old 2003-12-24, 23:07   Link #39
Tboz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rama
Hmm, I don't know.. But I know of 4 different chips that perform the same way.
Just look for the second line, 5th character has to be a "B".
Yup... Thoroughbred B chips. They are basically mark down chips, so most of them can overclock really well. They are quite rare where I am now, but I can't afford a Barton for now, so gotta settle for second best.
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Old 2004-01-13, 16:19   Link #40
ameoba
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I'm suprised that nobody's mentioned this guide as a good starting point. I wouldn't follow it word-for word but it's useful for some guidelines. The price they have comes out to about $600 without monitor; if you don't need new speakers or a modem, considering that prices have dropped since it was last updated, you'd be right at $500.

Places you could cut some corners :
  • Use PC2700 instead of PC3200 if you're not going to overclock. You might save a few bucks here, and you won't really be using the extra speed. Try to get CAS2 or CAS2.5 memory; CAS3 is slower.
  • You might be able to drop down to a smaller HDD, but make sure you keep 7200RPM and an 8MB cache.
  • If you still need to drop the price more, then go for a slower CPU; the downside is that anything slower than a 2500+ will have a slower system bus. If you go to a slower CPU and don't plan on overclocking, you can get PC2100 RAM and save even more money.
  • if you're going to consider a different graphics card (either to cut corners or 'cuz you can't find the 9100 they recomend), make sure you know what you're getting. http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphi...229/index.html is a big set of benchmarks for most of the cards on the market right now.


One thing about overclocking; if you're going to do it at all, make sure you do it -right-. Test that machine & make sure that it's not going to crash under heavy loads. The two most important things are RAM and CPU. For testing RAM, leave it alone with memtest86 (google for it) for 12-24hr. For testing the CPU (assuming you're using windows) nothing beats a prime95 (again, google) 'torture test'. An nForce2 board shouldn't have problems overclocking a 166MHz (aka 333) or a 133(266) CPU since it's designed to do 200(400)MHz chips.



As for where to get the parts, I reccommend only dealing with 1 or 2 (3 at the most) reputable dealers. This helps keep shipping costs down since combined shipping is almost always cheaper than ordering all components individually. As for what 'reputable' means, check out http://www.resellerratings.com to see if you're dealing with somebody who's gonna rip you off. Here's a few of the places that you can generally trust to get you started :

http://www.newegg.com my favorite
http://www.zipzoomfly.com
http://www.mwave.com site's kinda hard to browse; good for -exact- items
http://www.heatsinkstore.com good place for cases & cooling; mediocre prices on other stuff
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