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Old 2006-05-22, 14:27   Link #1
Ryuu-Odjn
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Macbook CPU Issues (Advice)

This may sound abit strange, but I might as well ask: Has anyone got one of the new Macbooks (non-MBPro) and had any CPU issues? I'm asking because my brand new one idles at around 55-60 degC and has hit 82 at 80-90% load. This just don't seem right at all! It hasn't crashed after 2 hours of being on constantly. The system is obviously quite hot, but it isn't unstable at all.

Should I be taking it back tomorrow? Any advice?
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Old 2006-05-22, 15:14   Link #2
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
This may sound abit strange, but I might as well ask: Has anyone got one of the new Macbooks (non-MBPro) and had any CPU issues? I'm asking because my brand new one idles at around 55-60 degC and has hit 82 at 80-90% load. This just don't seem right at all! It hasn't crashed after 2 hours of being on constantly. The system is obviously quite hot, but it isn't unstable at all.

Should I be taking it back tomorrow? Any advice?
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16137161

It seems the new macs had the thermal paste for the cpu applied incorrectly, resulting in the high temperatures. Hopefully you bought it someplace that's authorized to do repairs. It shouldn't take long for them to fix the problem, but if it has to be sent out, that's another story.
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Old 2006-05-22, 15:30   Link #3
Ryuu-Odjn
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I knew the thermal paste issue was a problem for the pro and what I've seen it's a hit and miss with MB's. I think I'll take it in and see what they say about it. I just tried to push it quite hard ( by running alot of programs, such as iDVD and Garage band as well as ripping a CD with iTunes) and while it hit 82 again, it then cooled to the low 70s and stayed there. I think the fan also isn't quite responding as quickly as it should.
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Old 2006-05-24, 12:19   Link #4
killmoms
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Yeah, take it in. Hopefully they're authorized to do repairs on that specifically. This is a problem Apple REALLY needs to work out. Apparently the service manuals for the MacBook show the same thing.

Though, if you're brave, there are disassembly guides online, and there aren't any stickers/tape/things like that you could break that'd show you opened it, as long as you were careful. Then you could apply some of your own Arctic Silver 5 or something good like that in accordance with thermal paste rules (i.e. tiny amount applied evenly). Probably not the best FIRST step though, take it in and see what's said.
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Old 2006-05-24, 18:52   Link #5
RaistlinMajere
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Apple for the lose, as usual
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Old 2006-05-24, 23:16   Link #6
killmoms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
Apple for the lose, as usual
I'll take 'em over PCs anyday.

Just not on Rev. A.

Also, stop trolling. It makes you seem petty.
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Old 2006-05-25, 00:49   Link #7
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They ARE PCs now. You can't say Dell doesn't make PCs because they're Dells.
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Old 2006-05-25, 01:09   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
They ARE PCs now. You can't say Dell doesn't make PCs because they're Dells.
Nope they're still macs, the processors are different from the PC version. And only mac's can run Mac OS X which I'd take over XP any day of the week. People who are extremely vocal about their displeasure with macs make me wonder about why they hate macs so much. Kinda like people who act super homophobic and then are found with naughty pictures of 10 year old boys...
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Old 2006-05-25, 01:30   Link #9
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Wow, they have a little chip in them that lets them use retail OSX versions. That REALLY makes them not a PC. And no, the CPU is not different, it's a Core Duo that you can find in plenty of PC laptops. Why does Apple suck? Because they're basically overpriced and UGLIER Dells. Anything Apple can do, Dell can do as good or better for 1/3 the price. And no, Dell is not my favorite company, but at least they have good prices.

As for your homophobic comment, not sure where it came from or what you're implying, but just stop, because it does not make your argument look good.
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Old 2006-05-25, 01:45   Link #10
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtetsuo
And only mac's can run Mac OS X which I'd take over XP any day of the week.
Now that macs will be able to run windows xp, I wonder how long it'll be before there's a lawsuit to change that. After all, allowing your hardware to run a competitor's software, but not allowing your software to run on a competitor's hardware seems like anti-competitive behaviour to me.

Besides, it makes better business sense. Even with the new intel chips, macs are overpriced compaired to pcs with similiar specs. Making the mac os compatable with pcs would probably increase apple's market share to at least 10%. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would love to use osx, but won't since they refuse to buy prebuilt machines. Apple could even license it out to other pc makers, giving them the potential to become a real contender in the OS wars, especially with windows super bloat edition, err vista coming out soon.
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Old 2006-05-25, 02:55   Link #11
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Quote:
Now that macs will be able to run windows xp, I wonder how long it'll be before there's a lawsuit to change that. After all, allowing your hardware to run a competitor's software, but not allowing your software to run on a competitor's hardware seems like anti-competitive behaviour to me.
Hardly. Apple is under no obligation to sell their software to anyone they don't want to. They aren't a monopoly and haven't been convicted of abusing it.

Making MacOS X run on general PCs would likely severely threaten the stability enjoyed by the limited platforms, and would destroy Apple as a company; they are, after all, a platform company and not a software company. They aren't solely about the hardware or the software, but the experience delivered by the software and the hardware. Something neither dell nor microsoft can really do (and microsoft can't get right to save their lives.)
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Old 2006-05-25, 04:35   Link #12
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Figured I'd put my on-topic advice first rather than last: I'll echo what killmoms said, but add in that I'd recommend against mucking around deep inside a laptop if it's the first computer you've disassembled. I'll admit to not having looked for the steps for this specific procedure, but Apple has fairly consistently made their laptops rather hard to muck around in beyond upgrading the ram or hard drive on some models. If you go ahead, get a decent set of small screwdrivers - ones that have a decent sized handle and not the standard jeweler style. Although Apple doesn't tend to tighten their screws as tight as I've seen on some PC laptops, I'd still be on the safe side.

Bleargh, I was wondering how long it would take for the first Apple flame. I haven't been in a Mac vs. PC flamewar in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
They ARE PCs now. You can't say Dell doesn't make PCs because they're Dells.
Either Macs have always been PCs or they never have been. There is no change in distinction brought about with the change in processor. The reason for this depends on your definition of the term PC. If you take PC to mean "Personal Computer", then Apple has of course always made personal computers. If you take PC to mean its most common meaning among laymen (at least in my experience; I certainly don't speak for the entire world), it would mean any home computer not made by Apple, more or less equivalent to the term "Wintel", and thus Apple cannot make a PC. If you take it to mean "IBM PC-Compatable", then Apple's machines are most certainly not 100% compatible with old IBM machines, and neither are any other Wintels. No manufacturer has used this designation for years with reason. At any rate, this is all semantics that only technical people care about even one bit; I personally use the second definition, as I've found it to be the most commonly understood among non-techical and technical people alike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
Wow, they have a little chip in them that lets them use retail OSX versions. That REALLY makes them not a PC. And no, the CPU is not different, it's a Core Duo that you can find in plenty of PC laptops. Why does Apple suck? Because they're basically overpriced and UGLIER Dells. Anything Apple can do, Dell can do as good or better for 1/3 the price. And no, Dell is not my favorite company, but at least they have good prices.
Apple's machines are nowhere near 3 times the price of Dell's for the same specs. And now that they use the same hardware, it's even easier to quantitatively compare them. So I did. I took Apple's base MacBook, and customized a Dell Inspiron 1405 as closely as possible:
1.83GHz Core Duo
Remote
14.1" 1366x768 matte screen (MacBook has a 13.3" 1280x800 glossy screen)
512x1 MB 533MHz RAM (MacBook has 256x2 MB 667 MHz RAM)
60GB SATA HD (assuming 5200 RPM for the Dell, refusing to dig for the specs)
DVD/CD-RW Combo optical drive
802.11 a/g
Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
Intel GMA950 Integrated Graphics

Final list price for the Dell? $1384
Of course, I've heard that Dell has near-constant coupons, and the current one is a $300 mail-in rebate, so the final price is $1080 for the Dell vs. $1099 for the Apple (don't ask me how Dell's website subtracted the additional $4.) And that's not counting the hardware that didn't quite have an equivalent in the Dell, including optical audio in/out, integrated webcam, DVI video out, and, assuming that the Dell has 10/100BASE-T (can't find any info on this in 10 minutes, and I'm not searching more), gigabit ethernet. To be fair, if you want S-Video or VGA out on the Mac, it's an additional $19 adapter, and the Dell has 2 more USB ports. And of course, the Mac is smaller in every dimension. Still, in terms of just hardware, the Apple premium is hardly anything nowadays, though they do still do weird stuff like charge $150 for a paint job.

I'd say part of the myth stems from the fact that Apple doesn't offer el cheapo crap computers like most PC makers, so their "base" model is comparable to the midrange of a PC, but people compare the Mac's price to the low end PC. I'm not saying that there is no premium on Apple hardware; it's common knowledge that Apple enjoys profit margins that other PC manufacturers would kill their mothers for. It's just that it's nowhere near what people tend to make it out to be, and hasn't been even before the move to Intel. Another factor to consider is the value of the bundled software, as Apple includes a lot more useful stuff than the typical Wintel OEM (and I'm not just talking about the iLife apps - the two Omni apps are useful even to me, and GraphicConverter has been a Mac staple since the dawn of the internet.) Admittedly it doesn't really matter for people like you and me, RaistlinMajere, but we aren't the typical computer user.

Finally, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find Apple's clean uncluttered designs more appealing than any PC I've ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
Now that macs will be able to run windows xp, I wonder how long it'll be before there's a lawsuit to change that. After all, allowing your hardware to run a competitor's software, but not allowing your software to run on a competitor's hardware seems like anti-competitive behaviour to me.

Besides, it makes better business sense. Even with the new intel chips, macs are overpriced compaired to pcs with similiar specs. Making the mac os compatable with pcs would probably increase apple's market share to at least 10%. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would love to use osx, but won't since they refuse to buy prebuilt machines. Apple could even license it out to other pc makers, giving them the potential to become a real contender in the OS wars, especially with windows super bloat edition, err vista coming out soon.
I'm not defending Apple's attempt to lock OS X down to Mac hardware (I personally think they have no right to do so), but I sincerely hope that Microsoft gets some actual punishment for their own monopolistic practices, which I think most people would agree are a bit worse than what Apple's doing, before the Justice Department prosecutes a small fry like Apple. And they've legally been proven to be a monopoly, something that Apple has yet to be proved legally as, even in the mp3 player market. As for making OS X able to run on self-built machines, I wouldn't hold your breath. Not because Apple doesn't want OS X on non-Macs, but because of the sheer amount of effort it would take to write drivers for all the hardware that's even likely to be around, let alone the less common stuff. And I doubt manufacturers would help much; how often do they provide full Linux support?

Another thing I can't believe I forgot until just now: does anyone remember the Mac clones? They turned the Mac market into much like the PC market is: a competition for the absolute lowest price between various manufacturers. This nearly put Apple out of business until they killed the licensing. I don't doubt that a similar move to officially support OS X on generic PC hardware would result in the same outcome; although they could probably survive better now as a purely software company with all that they've acquired, I doubt it'd work as well for them as they're doing now.
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Old 2006-05-25, 05:41   Link #13
1.0.7.
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right.. people here are petty..
anyway, just a quick question
i bought my ibook g4 last september, however, in a really cool twist of events, i'm entitled for a new laptop. and i'm sticking to apple. so those of you who know what they're talking about, you think i should go for the macbook?
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Old 2006-05-25, 05:48   Link #14
Kamui4356
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@Yuvi - Good point on the drivers. I'd expect partial support at best from the manufacterers, which would greatly limit options to their main product lines. Not to mention the smaller companies likely wouldn't offer any support at all. If apple could capture a significant market share it would change, but until then they'd be in trouble.

Still, I think apple could do well. They're in a much stronger position than they were when they licensed the mac clones. OSX is vastly superior than the version they had at the time and the clones were really only competing with the actaul macs. Apple would certainly lose market share in desktops, but the design element would keep that line from failing. There will always be someone to buy them. Laptops they're actually competitive in, so sales there probably wouldn't slack at all. Not to mention their ipod division is doing well. I would think any losses in desktop sales would be more than made up in sales of osx.

@1.0.7. Aside from the minor issue with thermal paste, which is easily fixed, I'm unaware of any problems in the line. The pros look nice. The only reason I wouldn't get one is, I'm an amd fanboy. Though I'm using a p4 system now, so I'm not a huge fanboy.
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Old 2006-05-25, 12:18   Link #15
RaistlinMajere
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That coupon isn't very good, you should be able to find something good for at least $500 off. And 13.3" to 14.1" is a fairly large jump in cost.
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Old 2006-05-25, 12:42   Link #16
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Bravo Yuvi, what I should have said but was too lazy and tired to do so!

1.0.7 The new macbooks seem like a great deal, all thermal paste issues aside. And the black one looks dam sexy (but it is overpriced $200 more for a 20 gigabyte larger hard drive and a black paintjob? ) Personally though I'd wait a couple more months to allow the intel native software base to expand fully, because rosetta is SLOW.

Unfortunatly I don't think Mplayer is Intel native yet, so if you plan on watching softsubbed anime you might be stuck with VLC.
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Old 2006-05-25, 12:47   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
As for your homophobic comment, not sure where it came from or what you're implying, but just stop, because it does not make your argument look good.
True I should have thought of a better analogy. What I'm trying to say is that usually those who are the most vocal against issues are usually trying to hide something.
I can see it now, after posting here, Raistlin crawls into his sub-basement to turn on an Apple II for a rousing game of Oregon Trail.
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Old 2006-05-25, 16:25   Link #18
Ryuu-Odjn
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Argh my thread's become an Apple flamewar!

Anyway took it back and let them do a few things, was told it was fine and just gets "alittle" hot. It was within spec so I couldn't really say it was faulty either. Bah! There's was actually worse than mine (hit 90 I think). But it does seem to be abit better, idleing at 45-50 rather than 55-60. I still think it ain't right, but it's been better since I switched browsers to Opera. For some reason Firefox seems to hog one core completely, causing the CPU to rise in temp. dramatically

1.0.7.: As suggested, I'd wait for the Rev. B's unless you aren't bothered by "warm" temps. The thing hasn't frozen yet and there's no real sign of slowdown either.

As for reapplying the thermal paste: I'm not sure about it, perhaps once the warranty's gone in a year. I'm not a hugely mobile person, so the laptop gets used not half as much as my desktop. While I've taken apart my desktop, the only thing I've never done is the CPU and fan. I just don't like mucking around with something that's very fragile. Especially with my cack hands!
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Old 2006-05-25, 17:08   Link #19
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also there recently came out with something about a blocked airvent in the hinge between the LCD and CPU look if there is a plastic piece covering the vent where the LCD hinge is on the CPU/keyboard part is.
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Old 2006-05-25, 17:45   Link #20
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I'd say idling at 45-50°C is decent. My own PowerBook (with the fastest G4 processor Apple ever used) tends to idle in that range, getting up to 60°C under full load, which seems to be similar to this guy's results with reapplying the thermal paste on a 15" MacBook Pro: http://www.mbpro.info/MacBook%20Pro%...ro%20Heat.html
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