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View Poll Results: What is their gender?
Both are male. 119 50.42%
Both are female. 105 44.49%
Dorii is male and Guraa is female. 6 2.54%
Guraa is male and Dorii is female. 6 2.54%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-07-26, 16:05   Link #261
Shinji103
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Poor Oboro...
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Old 2006-07-26, 16:14   Link #262
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furudanuki
While there is certainly no guarantee that the anime will follow the game regarding the twin's gender, I am still betting that they will indeed turn out to be males. I have a sneaking suspicion that the scriptwriters are keeping this revelation in reserve until the next time they need to inject a big jolt of comic relief into the series. We'll probably see it after the next batch of death, destruction, misery and angst. And, as usual, Hakuoro will no doubt be playing the confused straight man (stop smirking, I mean in the comedic sense!) in the scene. "They are... but... but... I thought... Oboro, you mean you...."
Yeah, I think they are the same gender as they are in the game, too. That is what I think, anyway. For one thing, it is not like Mashiro from Otome manga to Otome anime, or the twins of FMP from the novel to anime, where it was made clear to the audience right away that the genders were reversed. And the twins are androgonous and show masculine and feminine traits in the anime, yes, but it is important to note that this was also how they were portrayed in the game, so that counts for something; that how they are portrayed is very much the same in game and anime alike.


And that incident with Oboro and the twins in the bed doesn't make Oboro gay, or lucky, or what not. Oboro became a drunken victim. I still say the twins are funny for getting him drunk to get into his pants.
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Old 2006-07-27, 01:59   Link #263
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Frankly im voting both girls, those legs are too feminine.
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Old 2006-07-27, 08:49   Link #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myname
And you ASSUME they have not done this before WHY?

Did it not occur to you that perhaps they've had sex before?

Do you not see how loyal the twins are towards him?

He is their MASTER, I don't see why a master should be embarassed sleeping with his servants.
Actually, I was assuming that they didnt even have sex in this instance. I'm trying to say that they were just sleeping.... naked.... together. Sleeping, in the most literal sense of the word. Naked, in the most literal sense of the word. Together, referring only to their close proximity. Of course, highly disputable and probably wrong, but I'm not really holding to that post of my either.

And well, Urzu 7 has said the rest, I agree with him ~ esp about the embarassed sleeping with them part.
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Old 2006-07-27, 19:58   Link #265
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as if there are more votes for them being male...i really didnt expect oboro to be gay >.< hes been soiled...
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Old 2006-07-28, 11:58   Link #266
Marke
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OMG of course they are both girls?


First the Scenes they all lying naked in a bed.
second the part the Merchant arrives and he comments all the pretty girls in his court, and they show the cam on them as on Eruruu, when they are looking jewelry.
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Old 2006-07-28, 17:11   Link #267
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marke
OMG of course they are both girls?


First the Scenes they all lying naked in a bed.
second the part the Merchant arrives and he comments all the pretty girls in his court, and they show the cam on them as on Eruruu, when they are looking jewelry.
About the jewelry scene, as discussed, it could quite possibly been a dose of humor. As mentioned between me and the poster Lost, we shouldn't rely entirely on the game, nor totally disregard it at the same time. So, the arguement I made before about the jewelry scene could be a little reference to when Hakauro easily mistook the twins as girls, likewise, the merchant could have just as easily done so. You know, it could have been a little joke within the production team, too, playing with some humor as he mentions beautiful girls and the cam focuses on the twins holding the jewelry; the amusement being how they are so feminine and girly in the game, as well as gay. I wouldn't totally discount game material, content, and events in this topic, as again, it shouldn't be entirely disregarded, and such a scene could have been a little bit of humor playing on some aspects from the PC game of Utawarerumono. As people have pointed out, yes, this anime is made for a more mainstream crowd, but don't forget that a good amount of viewers are surely fans of the game, and I could easily see the production company throwing in little references and what you could call "easter eggs" (video game lingo) into the anime rendition.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2006-07-28 at 17:33.
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Old 2006-07-28, 19:41   Link #268
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yea maybe they are special people and have no gender
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Old 2006-07-28, 22:45   Link #269
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i would say they're both girls... mostly coming from personal feeling. I dont know if i am right, but i do notice that men tend to have their ears pointed up more, as female points down. Maybe that reflects their gender by conveying their shyness or masculine features.

Any thoughts?
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Old 2006-07-28, 23:01   Link #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalflame
i would say they're both girls... mostly coming from personal feeling. I dont know if i am right, but i do notice that men tend to have their ears pointed up more, as female points down. Maybe that reflects their gender by conveying their shyness or masculine features.

Any thoughts?
Dorii and Gura seem about 14 or so, so they are rather young, and if you look at some of the young boys seen in the villages in some episodes, their ears go down, too.

Also, another correlation from the videogame, but this one should be totally viable: their ears point downward in the game and game art, too, and the animation company kept the character designs very much the same from the game to the anime.
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Old 2006-07-29, 16:13   Link #271
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I voted for male, because in the bed scene they didn't had female curves. I also saw a onsen picture where they had a boy's body.

Here is the onsen pic:

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?im...reonsenvr2.jpg

I don't know whether the pic is official or not
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Old 2006-07-29, 17:07   Link #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaMen
I voted for male, because in the bed scene they didn't had female curves. I also saw a onsen picture where they had a boy's body.

Here is the onsen pic:

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?im...reonsenvr2.jpg

I don't know whether the pic is official or not
It has been well established that they are male in the game. That image you have is based off of the game. What we are voting on and discussing are the gender they have in the anime.

As for the curves, it could be depicted as either young female curves or females without hugely defined curves. Not all women look like Kurura.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7
...the animation company kept the character designs very much the same from the game to the anime.
The intention of the character design from the game was to keep things obscure, where it can be either male or female. What is there to say that they are not doing the same thing in the anime, but to throw things off from the game watchers (a double reverse surprise) and made them female. In this regard, it would have no major impact on the pure anime watchers or turn them off, who already establish that they are female, but would put another surprise again for the game watchers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7
About the jewelry scene, as discussed, it could quite possibly been a dose of humor.
Or it could just be that the scene meant what it actually stated. There has been nothing in the anime to make it seem like a dose of humor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
I'm trying to say that they were just sleeping.... naked.... together. Sleeping, in the most literal sense of the word. Naked, in the most literal sense of the word. Together, referring only to their close proximity.
Ummm... sure... whatever you want to believe.
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Old 2006-07-29, 17:29   Link #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon
It has been well established that they are male in the game. That image you have is based off of the game. What we are voting on and discussing are the gender they have in the anime.

As for the curves, it could be depicted as either young female curves or females without hugely defined curves. Not all women look like Kurura.



The intention of the character design from the game was to keep things obscure, where it can be either male or female. What is there to say that they are not doing the same thing in the anime, but to throw things off from the game watchers (a double reverse surprise) and made them female. In this regard, it would have no major impact on the pure anime watchers or turn them off, who already establish that they are female, but would put another surprise again for the game watchers.



Or it could just be that the scene meant what it actually stated. There has been nothing in the anime to make it seem like a dose of humor.



Ummm... sure... whatever you want to believe.
There is no reason to think the characters are a different gender in the anime than the game. Some people have mentioned the twins in FMP:SR as a precedent, but didn't they have different names as well? It can be argued it wasn't just a gender swap, but they were new characters.

In this case we have; same names, same character design, same personalities, same roles. Why would their gender be different when everything else about them is the same?
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Old 2006-07-29, 17:44   Link #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
Why would their gender be different when everything else about them is the same?
More mass market appeal? They can be whatever they are in the game. However, there has not been any concrete evidence in the anime to prove that they are male. If they were going to keep them as male, they would have shown the missing scenes that would have proved otherwise. In general right now, they want the anime viewers to believe that they are female, from all scenes to date.
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Old 2006-07-29, 18:00   Link #275
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From what I've seen in anime adapted from a source material, you can pretty much assume that things are not changed from the original unless either a change is stated, or it is made clearly obvious.

I vote male.
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Old 2006-07-29, 22:47   Link #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
There is no reason to think the characters are a different gender in the anime than the game. Some people have mentioned the twins in FMP:SR as a precedent, but didn't they have different names as well? It can be argued it wasn't just a gender swap, but they were new characters.

In this case we have; same names, same character design, same personalities, same roles. Why would their gender be different when everything else about them is the same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruromania
From what I've seen in anime adapted from a source material, you can pretty much assume that things are not changed from the original unless either a change is stated, or it is made clearly obvious.

I vote male.
I agree very much with what these two said. Thundrakkon, you mention that this topic ignores the game and should focus soley on the anime, but I disagree, as I have said. It skews the set up of the debate and topic. As stated earlier, I think what is fair is having more focus on the anime, but creating a middle ground; we shouldn't entirely rely on the game, nor totally disregard it in the discussion. It is important to give some regard to it for it is the source material, afterall.

Now, about what those two posters have said, very good points. One of the biggest things about keeping some regard for the game, the source material, is demonstrated well by Kamui and Jaruromania's posts.

As Kamui has stated, why would they change their gender from the source material, the game, when everything else is kept the same, from appearances to personalities to roles and names? Very good point. Also, as Jaruromania stated, with such an accurate transition of the characters from the game to the anime, their gender is most likely not changed, either, and if it were, it would be clearly stated or made obvious to the viewer. Clearly, they haven't been changed in looks to appear clearly as females, their appearances are just as they are in the game. All arguements about how they are probably female because they look tomboyish and/or feminine hold very little weight, as that is also how they are in the game.

About it being clearly stated, well Thundrakkon had said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon


Or it could just be that the scene meant what it actually stated. There has been nothing in the anime to make it seem like a dose of humor.

Going along with what I was talking about, that is not a clear statement of them being female. While the camera focuses on them while the merchant mentions jewelry for beautiful ladies, that is not a clear statement or confirmation that they are female in the anime rather than male. And I have made an interpretation of what that little segment could have been all about, again, it could be playing along with how they are so feminine in looks, and playing along with how there was a scene where Hakauro mistook them for females, and playing with the idea that the merchant mistook them for females. It is even possible that that specific dialogue from that merchant at the scene does not directly relate to the twins; as in not inferring they are female nor conveying that the merchant mistook them for females. It could have been tongue-and-cheek humor, again relating to the source material, and the camera focuses on the twins with jewelry with that dialogue coinciding, simply playing with how the twins are so feminine and also gay.

I am saying it is possible this scene (which is very minor) could be a small reference to some things about how the twins are in the game. It is definately possible. To be fair of those saying it is a confirmation that they are female, that is a possibility, but with that scene, it is not clear, but rather vague, and is definately open to interpretation, and taking all the other things into consideration (like how those other two posters pointed out how every major aspect of the twins is the same in the anime as they are in the game), wouldn't you think that if that was the instance that the animation company wanted to let the audience to know they are female in the anime, it wouldn't be so minor or vague? That is probably the strongest arguement for them being female in the anime, yet don't you think that, taking all those other points into consideration, if they really were female and such and the animation company wanted to let the viewers know that, they would make it clear and understood?

Similarly, there is one scene that is a strong indication that they are male, as one twin refers to the both of them with the phrase "boku-tachhi", which Japanese males use when referring to themselves and another male or males. One has said that with jewelry scene, the twins are probably female as it "states" in that segment. As I have just gone over, it is not really a statement of any kind, and is also vague; not a clear confirmation of them being female, and is open to the interpretation that it plays with some ideas from the source material, which has been covered. Conversely, someone stated before that the boku-tacchi statement probably doesn't infer they are male, yet it is an ode to the VA who sometimes refers to herself as 'Boku'. Not an impossibility, but really improbable.

They made the transistion from the game to the anime with no changes in their major qualities and aspects, and as such, things already indicate that they are male in the anime, as well. If they were female in the anime, and this was never made clear, and all other things point to them being male in the anime, and the "boku-tacchi" remark was a little reference to the VA...wouldn't that go over pretty much all viewers heads? Wouldn't that be very unclear and generally not caught by the viewer? In this case, I think that statement means exactly what one would infer from it: they are males, and using proper usage of the language. All things considered, it points to them being the same gender in the anime as they are in the game. The boku-tacchi phrase in that segment of dialogue would be read as proper language usage for males in the Japanese audience. To say it doesn't mean that at all but is just an ode to the VA would not be clear to the general audience. Most viewers seeing characters that seem to be male and such would see it as those characters using proper Japanese grammer, and this would be clear to them, I would argue that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon
In general right now, they want the anime viewers to believe that they are female, from all scenes to date.
Taking all these things I have talked about into consideration, and the two quotes from the beginning of the post, it is at the least an ambigious matter; it is more likely that many viewers really already view these characters as male. If the animation company decided to make them female in the anime and really wanted to let viewers know it, they would have conveyed this clearly and/or made it obvious. Also, it is worth mentioning, from what I gather from people posting at places like 2chan and such, many Japanese viewers do think they are male, and as I've searched around for fan art of the twins, all of it has been fan art of them being male. Bringing me to my last point for now, about mass market appeal. Again, there is a decent amount of fan art of them; we can pretty much conclude most of it is fan art of them as males.

Utawarerumono has a lot of mass market appeal as is, there are a ton of cute bishoujo and moes in the series, they don't need to change the gender of the twins to gain a small amount of extra mass market appeal, and if they did, they sure would make it obvious and let it be known. Young male characters with some feminine qualities is not uncommon in anime, and for what can be seen as a shounen ai element that is a reference to a scene in the game (the Oboro and twins bed scene), it is minor, it is brief, it certainly correlates with material in the game, and while shounen ai isn't mass market material, a little bit here or there is fine for many series and doesn't do anything significant to their mass market appeal, especially if it is a minor component of a series, and if it is portrayed in a comedic manner (both these things are the case for episode 17), it also helps contribute to it being "not really a bother" in most viewers minds.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2006-07-29 at 23:04.
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Old 2006-07-30, 01:59   Link #277
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Well, one thing I find pretty likely in the midst of all this discussion is that I imagine the producers and storywriters are really enjoying playing with this "ambiguity", and I'd be willing to bet that they'll go the whole show without ever clearly stating the anime-reality one way or the other. That makes it sort of a "wink wink" to those who've already played the game (it becomes an "in joke", and those are always fun), and I'm sure the resulting discussion is good PR for the PS2 game releasing in Japan at the end of the month. In that respect, and especially if they don't end up revealing it, I think it's a pretty smart move. Nothing better than deliberate ambiguity to spur the fandom; if it were blatantly obvious, you wouldn't have this much discussion about the show!
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Old 2006-07-30, 03:21   Link #278
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Why would they blatantly say the twins are female if scenes are indicating that they are female? As stated before, jewelry scene is one, and the covering of female areas in the bed as another. If they wanted to keep it consistent with the game, as you humbly have stated, then they would do exactly that and state the gender of the twins in a scene. As it would be weird to go out and say, "Kurura is actually a female," it would be strange for them to state that the females are twins, if the viewers are already shown scenes to make them believe they are so. The only scene I can think of would be another hot springs scene or if battle injury requires them to be bandaged up. It is unlikely that they would do 2 hot springs/bath scene in the same series.

So, using your logic, Urzu 7, they would need to convey the message that the twins are male in the anime if it is truly the case.

As for using the game as source material, it is fine as a reference. However, it is not fine when you use the game as evidence to saying they are male.

As mentioned before on the Boku topic, besides the VA aspects, it is more common in anime for female characters to use the term Boku to refer to themselves. Even in the theme song for School Rumble 2nd season, the first line sung by a woman starts off as Boku-ra with all the main female characters getting shown. Another recent anime, as mentioned before, is Shuffle! with Asa referring to herself as such.

And I agree with relentlessflame stating that the show will probably end up not stating anything in particular about their gender because they would let you believe whatever you want to believe. It would be weird for the anime to suddenly say the twins are females, since they have already tried to convey that message, and people are lead to believe they are such. It would make more logical sense, if there is a gender mentioning scene, that they would say the twins are male, thereby creating a shock factor. In conclusion, they probably won't mention the gender if the twins are female, or if they want to remain ambiguous.
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Old 2006-07-30, 09:59   Link #279
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Well this ambiguity makes for wonderful debates

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon
And I agree with relentlessflame stating that the show will probably end up not stating anything in particular about their gender because they would let you believe whatever you want to believe. It would be weird for the anime to suddenly say the twins are females, since they have already tried to convey that message, and people are lead to believe they are such. It would make more logical sense, if there is a gender mentioning scene, that they would say the twins are male, thereby creating a shock factor. In conclusion, they probably won't mention the gender if the twins are female, or if they want to remain ambiguous.
Sorry, but I dont think that that is a solid conclusion. That honestly sounds like wishful thinking. Tho I'm not immune to it either. But yeah. Wishful thinking. Really, we could keep on going around in circles like this. About trying to convey that they are females (which in itself can be highly disputed!) have you never heard of misdirection? Woohoo... wishful thinking!!; but a possibility nonetheless. Hahaha
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Old 2006-07-30, 10:05   Link #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon
Why would they blatantly say the twins are female if scenes are indicating that they are female? As stated before, jewelry scene is one, and the covering of female areas in the bed as another. If they wanted to...

...relentlessflame stating that the show will probably end up not stating anything in particular about their gender because they would let you believe whatever you want to believe. It would be weird for the anime to suddenly say the twins are females, since they have already tried to convey that message, and people are lead to believe they are such. It would make more logical sense, if there is a gender mentioning scene, that they would say the twins are male, thereby creating a shock factor. In conclusion, they probably won't mention the gender if the twins are female, or if they want to remain ambiguous.
The bed scene is not a clear indicator they are female, as they have been displaying feminine and masculine qualities throughout the series. This would just be another thing to the overall ambiguity.

The jewelry scene is certainly something open to debate, but it is not a clear indication they are female; emphasis on the word clear. Again, taking so many points into consideration, especially how every major aspect of these characters has remained the same in the anime as the game, if the animation company decided to change their gender to female in the anime, I really think they would have made it very clear in a scene or dialogue, or made it obvious in character design. If on one hand, one would argue this jewelry was the primary instance in which the animation company indicated that the twins are female in the anime and a confirmation of sorts, whilst every major aspect of them is the same in the game and anime alike, it isn't a clear confirmation, it sure is vague, and open to debate and interpretation. On the other hand, it could possibly be that kind of tongue-and-cheek humor relating to some aspect about the characters in the game. Either way, it again contributes to the overall ambiguity.

As you said at the end of your post, they will probably leave the ambiguity there. You mention they probably won't mention that they are female, which is your stance, I respect it, as I take it you firmly believe they are female. My stance is that they probably won't clearly state they are male, as I firmly believe they are male. But, anyway, you have offered some things which you believe give more inclination to them being female, but I believe that those things aren't very firm in their grounding, and ultimately end up contributing more to the ambiguity of this. I would argue that since every major aspect of these characters has been transitioned from the game to the anime, this would seem to indicate quite strongly that their gender is also the same in the anime. As some have brought up; it is a good point, if they kept every major aspect of the characters similar in both the game and anime, why would they change their gender? And if they did, wouldn't they make it clear to the audience this was the case, or if you argue the mass market arguement, wouldn't they change the character designs to make it clearly obvious they are females?

Another thing to note, as people have cited FMP:TSR as an instance where characters had their genders switched, this point I am going to make relates to what I was just talking about. With FMP:TSR, the animation company made it clear from the get-go that the twins were female rather than male in the anime, by giving them character designs that made it clear and obvious they were female, had their first scene a scene which had them nude, and their names were changed. This again relates to what I was talking about in the last part of the preceeding paragraph; the twins haven't had their appearances altered to have things be obvious that they are female, their appearances remain true to the source material. Also, there hasn't been any very clear confirmation or indicator in the anime that conveys the message that they are of the opposite gender of what they are in the source material, the game.

Another thing to note is that many people seem to have developed the impression that they are male in the anime. In several other message boards, I have seen most all posters who discuss this topic say they take it they are male. Many on the 2chan boards, a popular Japanese message and image board, think they are male, as well. And also, from the fan art that I have seen of the twins (all being from Japanese artists), the twins have been portrayed as male in all the ones I have seen. This topic right here is the only instance I have found on the web where a sizable amount of people believe they are female and offer up points for debate on it. Several other places on the web that I have been to that have people who have been watching this series and are discussing, by and large, think the twins are male. I thought these observations were worth mentioning.
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