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View Poll Results: What is their gender?
Both are male. 119 50.42%
Both are female. 105 44.49%
Dorii is male and Guraa is female. 6 2.54%
Guraa is male and Dorii is female. 6 2.54%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-30, 00:33   Link #521
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by holyman282 View Post
This has been stated over and over again but here goes nothing..

Spoiler for game spoiler:
Yeah, in the game, they are definately male. I really think that they are male in the anime, as well. I think that they kept all the main characters in the anime true to their videogame counterparts. I think this certainly applies to Dori and Gura, as well. Also, if they did make them females in the anime, they would have emphasized this. In other words, they wouldn't look just like their videogame counterparts and it would be fairly obvious they were female.

It makes a lot of sense to acknowledge the source material and how they are male in the game and then work from that to argue your case in this debate. However, the OP decided that the source material should be discounted, which I don't agree with. Then, some people were trying to use the "FMP TSR" arguement for awhile, which was bogus.

You know, the Japanese make a good amount of androgynous characters, though. I'm used to it, don't mind it at all, I mean, I see it all the time in anime and it's not uncommon in videogames. But sometimes I get thrown off. I thought Toboe from Wolf's Rain was a girl for about an episode and a half. I wasn't sure weather Kiyone from Bleach was a girl or boy until I looked her up on wikipedia. And I recently bought Fire Emblem for Wii and saw a character profile for an angel-like guy in the manual and thought "She is quite pretty" and then read a part of the profile that refered to him as he and was like "o rly?".

Like I said, I don't have a problem with all these androgynous characters in anime and videogames, but every now and then, I wonder why a decent amount of Japanese animation workers and videogame designers use androgynous characters. I mean, evidently, a good number of them are fond of such characters. I still think Bridget (Guilty Gear) was originally a girl, but as a joke, they made him a boy. Probably went something like this: "She's hot"--"We should make it a guy just so people can say that and get burned"--"Haha, awesome idea! Okay, Bridget will be a boy!". Heh
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2007-12-30 at 00:57.
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Old 2008-02-04, 20:21   Link #522
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Ok, since the same arguments seem to keep popping up, I'll just bring up something completely different that I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet.

Has anyone watched the Utawarerumono extra? Not the OAVs, but the question-and-answer short ... I believe it was called Naze Nani Utawarerumono. I watched it a long time ago before it was taken off Youtube, and although I'm extremely limited in my knowledge of Japanese, I could pick out some of what they were saying. One of the questions half way through was "Are the twins guys or girls?" Yes, they completely dodge the question by having an argument about it, but to put it simply, Hakuoro says they're guys and Eruruu says they're girls. I guess you could think what you'd like about their inconclusive end to that question (the creators must want them to remain androgynous), but personally, I would support whatever Hakuoro says. Think about it. He definitely spends more time with Oboro than Eruruu does, and in the game(yes, I'm using evidence from the game, bear with me) Hakuoro originally thought the twins were girls. Since Hakuoro tells the audience that the twins are guys with what seemed like a lot of confidence to me, I would assume Oboro has already explained to him that the twins weren't girls like he thought.

This is just the way I see things ... but I'm all for the twins being male. Besides, in about 90% of the Japanese fanart I've collected of them, they're portrayed as male, so I'll side with the country that knows best!
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Old 2008-02-04, 22:03   Link #523
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Hmm, interesting bit of news, Tsuki. Yeah, the dialog between Hakauro and Eruuruu suggests the studio is having some fun and keeping them androgynous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuki-Tsu View Post
This is just the way I see things ... but I'm all for the twins being male. Besides, in about 90% of the Japanese fanart I've collected of them, they're portrayed as male, so I'll side with the country that knows best!
Yeah, I brought that up earlier in the thread. I know what you mean. The vast majority of fanart of them, they are portrayed as male.

Anyway, I do think they are awesome. I love kemono mimi characters, and Dori and Gura are two of my favorite. =3 And now, I have another one I really like, Horo from Spice and Wolf (she is popular here, for good reason). You know, I think I will get an avatar of her soon, too. Heck, the fact that Utawarerumono had a lot of kemono mimi characters in it was the main draw to the series for me. Was that the case for anyone else here?
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Old 2008-02-05, 15:45   Link #524
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Originally Posted by Tsuki-Tsu View Post
Yes, they completely dodge the question by having an argument about it, but to put it simply, Hakuoro says they're guys and Eruruu says they're girls. I guess you could think what you'd like about their inconclusive end to that question (the creators must want them to remain androgynous), but personally, I would support whatever Hakuoro says.
So what you are telling me is that Eruruu, the palace doctor (medical healer), who asks Karura to strip the first time they met, is incorrect in her assessment of the often injured twins who she must have treated countless times?

Thanks for bringing this up. I have never thought about it that way before, but now, you've just hit the nail on the evidence I needed to push it in total favor of the twins being female in the anime.
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Old 2008-02-05, 21:45   Link #525
Urzu 7
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So what you are telling me is that Eruruu, the palace doctor (medical healer), who asks Karura to strip the first time they met, is incorrect in her assessment of the often injured twins who she must have treated countless times?

Thanks for bringing this up. I have never thought about it that way before, but now, you've just hit the nail on the evidence I needed to push it in total favor of the twins being female in the anime.
You are reading way too much into it (bringing up how she is the medical personel). In this off-shoot interview, they just had the seiyuus of Hakauro and Eruuruu staging a debate, and one said they are male and the other said they are female. I think this is just an instance where the series producers are joking around about their androgynous nature and the issue of the gender debate among fans.
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Old 2008-02-08, 16:14   Link #526
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Both are male and they raped Oboro! Haha.. Poor guy..
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Old 2008-02-11, 13:07   Link #527
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
You are reading way too much into it (bringing up how she is the medical personel).
It would have been nice if you pointed that out in the first place, when Tsuki-Tsu brought it up in favor of Hakuoro.

Yes, I know it was an off-shoot interview and they were playing around with the idea. However, you really should give fair treatment in your replies. If Tsuki-Tsu brought it up in your favor, you should treat my reply with the same relevance.

Either way, unless the OVAs shows something new, this mystery might never be resolved (although most ANIME only evidence points to them being female)
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Old 2008-02-11, 20:50   Link #528
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
It would have been nice if you pointed that out in the first place, when Tsuki-Tsu brought it up in favor of Hakuoro.

Yes, I know it was an off-shoot interview and they were playing around with the idea. However, you really should give fair treatment in your replies. If Tsuki-Tsu brought it up in your favor, you should treat my reply with the same relevance.

Either way, unless the OVAs shows something new, this mystery might never be resolved (although most ANIME only evidence points to them being female)
Yes, to be fair, I thought about that. I refuted your analysis of the dialog in the interview, but didn't refute Tsuki's take on it and how they thought Hakauro was right. I had thought about that at one point, and you are right. Well, my treatment of it was partially fair, I suppose. While I didn't pay much attention to Tsuki's take on it (but did to yours), I didn't think either of your analysis's were right. Not on Hakauro being right because of such and such, or Eruuruu being right because of this reason or that. As I said, I don't think one character holds a more valid say on it then the other; it is just the producers and directer adding a little fuel to the fire that is the gender debate.

Although, I still personally see it as there being substaintial evidence in the anime that point to them being male (but you cite "Anime only evidence" , I still hold to the belief that the video game factors in ). But you have your own viewpoint; you see things being indicated otherwise. Hey, that's subjective reasoning for you! They are male in the game, and in the anime, well, there is no official confirmation of one gender or the other. However, it is open to debate, as we have seen in a thread like this, and people do form arguments for one stance or another, hehe.

Mainly, I hold to one stance because I think that stance is correct. At first, in the first episode I saw them, I wasn't sure if they were male or female, but then, I thought "Oh yeah, they are male". While I wasn't sure what gender they are at first due to their androgyny, I personally concluded that they are male, and they seem male to me. Also, after looking at several different points in this topic, I found that there is more solid reasoning supporting the stance that they are male in the anime as opposed to the stance they are female. Whether they are male or female characters, they are really lovable and cute. Yeah, I think they are male, and if they are, I wouldn't mind that at all, because they would still be cute characters to me; they have some real moe factor to them. Not only would I not mind it, I would prefer it, because, well, that's been my perception of them since when I first got into the series. Besides, it isn't like we don't have hot women and cute girls in the series, what with Eruuruu, Karura, Aruuruu, Touka, and more.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2008-02-11 at 21:07.
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Old 2008-02-18, 19:35   Link #529
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Discussion over, lol.

Just kidding. In the next few panels, they are confirmed as guys, lol.

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Old 2008-02-18, 20:06   Link #530
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In before the "but that doesn't prove anything!"

*cough* on a more serious note, I am a firm believer of the 'proof over no proof' rule at times like this. We have proof of their gender in the game, but no proof in the anime. Proof over no proof dictates that, to me, the Archer boys are indeed Archer boys.
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Old 2008-02-18, 20:16   Link #531
Urzu 7
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I should get the PC game sometime, and download the patch. I just recently got into SRPGs with Fire Emblem on the Wii.

They are certainly male in the game (and that shouldn't be ignored in this debate), but there is no official statement of what sex they are in the anime. This doesn't keep us from debating, though. They didn't say in the anime, and maybe they won't in the OVA, and maybe that neutral stance wouldn't be so bad. I guess that way it is open to the viewer's own opinion. I have my stance and think things point to them being male, but some others feel it is the other way around, so if they left it open to interpretation with a neutral stance like that, that would sit well with people on both sides of the argument.

So for the twins, game = they're male and then anime = whatever you think/would like, maybe?

We need L's deductive skills in this thread. He'd make a deduction in a minute, explain it in 28 seconds, and do so while crouching in a chair and eating a cannoli.

Edit -- To Keroko:

Yeah, that sentiment was expressed in this thread and I agree with it. Someone said sometime ago, in this thread, "I think that it should be assumed that are male in the anime unless proven otherwise" and they used the same reasoning as you. You both were thinking on the same page, and I agree with that thinking and it is pretty logical.

Yeah, I was just talking about how we can look at this at a more neutral viewpoint. But I also said it wouldn't stop us from debating. I have my stance, and share it with several others here. I guess I was trying to be more fair-minded in regards to the opposing viewpoint. Doesn't mean I won't still debate, heh.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2008-02-18 at 20:38.
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Old 2008-02-18, 20:28   Link #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
In before the "but that doesn't prove anything!"
So true, sadly... As I said nearly two months ago:

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Anyway, this is déjà-vu all over again. To future posters: Please be prepared with new arguments if you're going to bump this thread. That means read what other people have already tried arguing first.
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Old 2008-02-18, 21:57   Link #533
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
In before the "but that doesn't prove anything!"

*cough* on a more serious note, I am a firm believer of the 'proof over no proof' rule at times like this. We have proof of their gender in the game, but no proof in the anime. Proof over no proof dictates that, to me, the Archer boys are indeed Archer boys.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to perform thread necromancy, but I just found it hilarious how Hakuoro could be so wrong in the game. Actually, judging from the Twin's dialogue in that scene, I'd say that they were GAY. Not that that's a bad thing, but it was somewhat surprising. Then again, people have been theorizing that forever, but I guess i was just slow to realize.

However, I still suspect they subtlely leaned their gender towards female in the anime, due to that one jewelry scene. I mean, that was pretty obvious. But they are, without a doubt, boys in the game. Duh.

Also I just wanted to show off the fact that I have the game, lol.
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Old 2008-02-19, 07:06   Link #534
Keroko
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The jewel scene is nicely contradicted by them using bokutachi whenever they are refering to themselves, though.
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Old 2008-02-19, 13:56   Link #535
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The jewel scene is nicely contradicted by them using bokutachi whenever they are refering to themselves, though.
Girls use boku, too. Not very often at all, but I have heard "boku" used by girls in anime before.
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Old 2008-02-19, 14:07   Link #536
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Yeah, often by very tomboyish ones. I think we can all agree that the twins do not belong in that department.
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Old 2008-02-20, 00:43   Link #537
Urzu 7
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The debate rages on!

You see, if they were made to be girls in the anime, they would have wanted to make it clear and obvious in order to appeal to more male viewers. If they made them female in the anime yet people are unclear what their gender is, they obviously did not achieve that goal; appealing more to male viewers. If they made them female in the anime, they'd want viewers to know. They'd want male viewers to know.

Ask yourself: Did the producers make them females, where that aspect of them is totally unclear and not obvious, where they are totally androgynous, who are tomboys, who are just like their video game counter-parts, and who happen to use the term Boku Tacchi several times? Or are they simply male? Which one of those seems more likely of the two? Shouldn't be hard to pick which one.

And about the jewelry scene, looking at the scene as an isolated scene, you might say "maybe they are girls". But if you take all these other points made in this thread into consideration, you can make a valid argument that the jewelry scene is a joke playing on gay stereotypes, and some fans would get it since they are gay males in the game.
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Old 2008-05-12, 19:05   Link #538
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Well, I'm going to stick with 'undecided'... Just because the anime adaptation of Utawarerumono also changed Mukuru's gender (the tiger was a male one in the VN), so relying on the visual novel for answers isn't exactly right either.
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Old 2008-05-13, 21:20   Link #539
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They are girls in the anime.... there isnt much to it and i dont see why are you guys doubting it at all.
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Old 2008-05-14, 02:49   Link #540
Urzu 7
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They are girls in the anime.... there isnt much to it and i dont see why are you guys doubting it at all.
Do you have something more convincing then "there isn't much to it"? I've seen, after many pages of arguements here, that you certainly can make a case that they are male in the anime.

Also, there is a series with something similar. Mai Otome...the manga and anime were released around the same time (almost simultaneously). There is a character called Mashiro. In the anime, unmistakably a girl. In the manga, Mashiro is a boy. So, in the two versions, one version of the character is male, one is female. Some people say that that is how it is for the Utawa twins; male in the VG, female in the anime. But this thing with Mai Otome supports an arguement made in this thread; if they were going to change their gender, wouldn't they make it clear? As people said, they changed their gender to appeal more to males, but what good is that if it is totally unclear and not specified? They made it clear with this Mashiro character being female in the anime of Mai Otome (and did it to appeal to more male viewers). They did it there, so why didn't they do it with the Utawa twins? They probably didn't do it because they are probably are male in the anime.
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