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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Yzak 58 56.31%
Shinn 32 31.07%
$hitty 3rd option because I hate both these guys... 13 12.62%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-05-31, 01:28   Link #1
wingdarkness
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Yzak Joule vs. Shinn Asuka

I get the distinct feeling that some of you think Yzak is capable of easily or handily defeating Shinn in a one on one battle...Obviously your ace in the hole will be Shinn's OMGWTFBBQ face when Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka easily handle the extendeds in space during episode 6...The Shinn of episode 6 ain't the Shinn of later on in the series and that's excusing his ultimate nerfage that made him forget he had more than one move during his disgraceful finale (So if you use this as an argument prepare yourself)...

So please convince me that temper-based Yzak could beat temper-based Shinn in a one on one battle when temper-based Yzak has no SEED...Your choices are:

DESTINY vs. Yzak's Custom Zaku

IMPULSE (any form) vs. Yzak's Custom Zaku

DESTNY vs. DUEL

IMPULSE vs. DUEL


Lets talk more about piloting abilities, MS strategy, and similiar opponent history than specs...

DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A TOTAL SPECS DEBATE!!!!!!!

Now who's first to the chopping block??
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Old 2006-05-31, 01:50   Link #2
monster
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To be honest, I can't tell either way because I don't really know how Yzak has progressed through GSD. But I'm pretty sure given the choice of ms you have there, that Shinn would have a greater chance of beating Yzak. In the end, in terms of pure skill, I'd say they're both about equal. Well, not really equal, but not to the point where you can say for sure that one is clearly better than the other. At least, not by the end of GSD.

P.S. Couldn't you have made a fourth choice that's not so negative as the third choice?
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:09   Link #3
Obi-Wan
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Yzak would win...simply because Shinn was all "Wow these guys are good, I wish I could be half as good as them when I grow up!" during the Junius Seven fight. He pretty much flat out admitted they were better.

And Shinn's only real feats in GSD are sinking naval ships, blowing Windams out of the sky, and defeating Destroy Gundams (which, aside from the one Stella piloted, is basically a giant Windam). Oh yeah, he beat Kira. Big whoop.

Yzak on the other hand, pretty much owned Abyss in the Junius Seven fight, and he fought in all the space battles after the war started. He has a far more impressive war record than Shinn, who is master of fighting off grunt class soldiers. Shinn beat Kira. That's it. Then he turned around and got his ass kicked by the guy who had his head up his ass for 40+ episodes. Say all you want about plot devices and god modding and whatever the fuck you want, Shinn got beat because he wasn't as good as any of the CE71 was veterans, and he for damn sure wasn't good enough to step into the same ring as Athrun.

Yzak fought in god knows how many space battles throughout the war. Since Yzak isn't on the Kira Team or the Shinn Team, they hardly ever show him fight. But there were numerous behind the scenes battles in space while Shinn and Kira are fighting on Earth. Durandal even says this in the tea party episode. So while we do not see Yzak fight, he is up there doing it. Yes, he is fighting against Windams and Daggers, but then again so is Shinn most of the time. Of course Shinn fights against Astrays and Murasames too, but is there really a difference. Point is, Shinn is using a Gundam. Yzak is using a custom grunt suit, which underneath it all is still a grunt suit. Reason would say that Yzak would have to be an elite pilot to be able to survive through so many battles in space while using inferior equipment.

Also worth noting, Yzak does all of this without using SEED factor. Shinn needed SEED factor to do anything in GSD. So, put Yzak and Shinn in equal machines, push Yzak to the edge and make him discover his SEED factor and Shinn is toast. Yzak could probably handle him one on one without using SEED, but with it would just be icing on the cake.
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:20   Link #4
SNT1
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good points, Obi-Wan...

And I'm just gonna add to the fact that Shinn was about equal or a bit better with the Extended's (he did catch Auel, but he just stood there...dunno why)... and in the other thread many have argued that Seed Druggies > Extendeds, and Yzak manhandled two of them. In an outdated Duel. Without SEED.
(Yzak > druggie > extended = shinn?)

Yzak reminds me of a UC-like character, whereas Yzak pawns in a not-so-powerful MS.

As for Using Shinn at his best, let's see. He had help from Rey, to figure out a Kira who will definitely not aim for the cockpit but instead the arms and cameras and whatnot. Seeing Shinn (or we for that matter) don't see any 'patterns' than Yzak takes while he fights, one can assume that he isn't as predictable as Kira.

One problem, of course is the Gouf/Zaku he pilots. Definitely not as good as a Gundam. Then again, we go back to duel vs druggies, and zaku vs extendeds, he has shown to be capable of beating a superior MS.

My take? Yzak makes Shinn his b1tch.
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:36   Link #5
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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For those who knew the background, Yzak was the 2nd best graduate in his year at the academy. Athrun was always there to spoil Yzak's right to first-place, and for all intent and purposes they were rivals until Kira spoiled the fun.

Ironically, Yzak has become more mentally balanced than Athrun in GSD. This might mean he is actually better than Athrun on average. (i.e. no SEED)

It's not a stretch to consider him the third best pilot in the surviving original cast from GS. I am inclined to believe Shinn would lose against him should they fought with identical MS.

Yzak and Shinn have similar character traits, and I once hoped that Yzak could serve well as a mentor Shinn. Neither Athrun nor anyone else could have been capable of taking up that position. A pity, then, that he barely got a speaking role.
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:43   Link #6
Whitemoon648
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Well in regular froms and the same MS , Yzak would win. But Shin can go Seed mode, which enables him to have super huma abbilties and then he can defeat Yzak easily. So you yeah Shin can defeat Yzak.
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:44   Link #7
tetsuo69
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DESTINY vs. Yzak's Custom Zaku

IMPULSE (any form) vs. Yzak's Custom Zaku

DESTNY vs. DUEL

IMPULSE vs. DUEL


shinn would come out as the winner mainly cause of the better MS but if you put Yzak on Freedom Vs impulse, Yzak would come out as the winner and i can also bet he wouild also come out as a winner if he pilot Strike freedom Vs Destiny..Yzak doesnt think twice to aim at cockpick.


Quote:
and Yzak manhandled two of them. In an outdated Duel
not really Duel was Upgrade

Quote:
Yzak would win. But Shin can go Seed mode, which enables him to have super huma abbilties and then he can defeat Yzak easily. So you yeah Shin can defeat Yzak.
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not really if Athrun took on Shinn in seed mode while he wasnt, what makes you think yzak cant do the same?
back in seed against the first druggies i saw kira/athrun go seed mode but that didnt help end the battle quick against the druggies...

Seed mode dont = Super goku ^_^ lol
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:48   Link #8
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Aside from Shinn doding Freedom's saber, I dont see Shinn's SEED as any special. Shinn's SEED is questionable, as all he does in SEED mode is:
1. Shinn-stabb w/ ASSword
2. say "You killed Stellar!"
3. yell some more inside the cockpit.

In GSD F+ its obvious the SEED Shinn can't even old a candle to non-SEED athrun, so no proof at all that SEED Shinn is 'superhuman', if you exclude countless stationary grunts.

Quote:
not really Duel was Upgraded
an MS upgrade still doesn't equal to a newer MS.
What car would win in a road course, a 63 Corvette with mods, or an 07 Corvette Z06?
while its obvious that a 63 modded corvette will keep up with the 07 vette, there is the issue of lack of newer amenities on the 63, such as better tires, traction control, better materials, etc.

hope my analogy came out right
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Old 2006-05-31, 02:54   Link #9
Shinji103
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Well, the GSD fans will always have Shinn on or at best near the bottom of their ace pilot list since they won't admit that he got totally nerfed at the end. And they'll especially never give him an ounce of respect since the GSD staff nerfed Kira so he would lose to Shinn. That definitely turned on the anti-Shinn flames of war for the Kira fans.

But based on how Shinn was at the beginning of GSD (thus bypassing the nerfing he got from in the later part of the series), and then logically estimating how he should have progressed through the series from there as he gained experience instead of getting the 99.9% nerf (I say 99.9% because he still got some credit for dodging Kira's saber slash in PHASE 28), I'd say Shinn would probably win, especially since he has SEED mode.


Shinn stood his ground for a while against the Extendeds by himself at the beginning of the series. When they started getting tricky on him, he started losing, which is perfectly normal in a 3-on-1 fight.

Yzak teamed up with Athrun to defeat Sting and Auel one at a time, not Sting and Auel simultaneously and certainly not on his own.

The former is by far better evidence of individual skill.

The early episodes of GSD were undoubtedly awesome and by far the best of the series. One of the factors of this is that it showed the reality that even if a suit is a Gundam, it's not some invinceable "it can't be beaten by non-Gundam mobile suits" weapon. It's still man-made, and it's only so much better than mass produced suits.


And before Obi goes into hyper "screw you and whatever opinoins you have, 'UC homer'!" ( ) mode, I'll lay it out that the stating of nerfing in this post was to say that they later episodes of GSD are not good judging material and thus are not including in my calculations for anybodys' skills.
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Old 2006-05-31, 03:02   Link #10
SNT1
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Quote:
Well, the GSD fans will always have Shinn on or at best near the bottom of their ace pilot list since they won't admit that he got totally nerfed at the end. And they'll especially never give him an ounce of respect since the GSD staff nerfed Kira so he would lose to Shinn. That definitely turned on the anti-Shinn flames of war for the Kira fans.
oh not this arguement again XD

In all fairness though, I used Shinn at his best in most of my arguements (meaning Shinn at ep. 12-34 or something, and F+)


Quote:
Shinn stood his ground for a while against the Extendeds by himself at the beginning of the series. When they started getting tricky on him, he started losing, which is perfectly normal in a 3-on-1 fight.
Athrun had to bail him out some time, and then later Luna and Rey came. not exactly a pure 3v1.

Quote:
Yzak teamed up with Athrun to defeat Sting and Auel one at a time, not Sting and Auel simultaneously and certainly not on his own.
but, they were owning everyone else in such an omfgwtf fashion, that even Sinn himself would tell you 'yep, theyre better than me."
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Old 2006-05-31, 03:06   Link #11
lt_shiro
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Yzak has fought and lived on the battlefield lot longer than Shinn... And don't forget he cause the downfall of the first Drug-ees team and that counts for alot for skill (luck) in battle.
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Old 2006-05-31, 03:10   Link #12
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by SNT1
oh not this arguement again XD

In all fairness though, I used Shinn at his best in most of my arguements (meaning Shinn at ep. 12-34 or something, and F+)
Sorry, it's a fact that will always exist. If you don't like it (and neither do I), complain to Fukuda and Morosawa. They made the show.

Btw, Shinn in 23 got the nerf already. Remember how he just floated in mid-air for Freedom to slice Impulse's arm off? Grunt nerfing on named pilots at work, my friend. Sorry, it's a fact of the series. No pilot would just float there waiting to get hit like that, with the exception of a total newbie who just hopped in the cockpit like 5 minutes ago. The first 12 episodes were actual evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
Athrun had to bail him out some time, and then later Luna and Rey came. not exactly a pure 3v1.
Errm, selective reading at its best. I said "for a time." And I also already said he started to lose when they all ganged on him. It happens to be rather normal for someone to lose when they outnumbered 3 to 1. Please read better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
but, they were owning everyone else in such an omfgwtf fashion, that even Sinn himself would tell you 'yep, theyre better than me."
Two things:

1. Team-up. That whole fight Yzak, Athrun, and Dearkka or Yzak and Athrun were teaming up on everything. When Athrun had to take on one of them by himself, he didn't pull any "omgwtf fashion."

2. I said "judging from his starting skills and estimating his growth from experince". As in, not using his skill level at the beginning to judge, but using his skill level at the beginning to estimate his growth to the end of the series.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lt_shiro
Yzak has fought and lived on the battlefield lot longer than Shinn... And don't forget he cause the downfall of the first Drug-ees team and that counts for alot for skill (luck) in battle.
And as Shinn gains more experience, he also increases his skills. Yzak's experience can only get him so much, which means he's either already hit or is close to hitting his ability limit while Shinn gains more experience.


And with that I sign off, as this will undoubtedly turn into a festival of "no, it's like this" vs "no, it's like this" unless one of us pulls out. And I will pull be the one to pull out, as I have no interest in another lengthy debate about GSD. I said my peice.
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Old 2006-05-31, 03:17   Link #13
SNT1
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Sorry, it's a fact that will always exist. If you don't like it (and neither do I), complain to Fukuda and Morosawa. They made the show.

Btw, Shinn in 23+ got the nerf already. Remember hwo he just floated in mid-air for Kira to slice IMpulse's arm off? Grunt nerfing on named pilots at work, my friend. Sorry, it's a fact of the series. No pilot would just float there wiating to get hit like that. The first 12 episodes were far better evidence.
If Shinn was nerfed from ep.13-50 plus specials, then he wasn't really 'nerfed' anyway, maybe he just plain sucks and just got lucky on the first 12, lol.


Quote:
1. Team-up. That whole fight Yzak, Athrun and Dearkka or Yzak and Athrun were teaming up on everything. When Athrun had to take on one of them by himself, he didn't pull any "omgwtf fashion."
yeah, Athrun was delusional (and just plain lame) @Savior, dont count that out. Once again I say, Shinn was impressed.

Quote:
2. I said "judging from his starting skills and estimating his growth from experince". As in, not using his skill level at the beginning to judge, but using his skill level at the beginning to estimate his growth to the end of the series.
you said it yourself, he was good at the 1st 12, then he starts downhill after that.
"Using his skill at the beginning to estimater his growth at the end of the series" doesn't always work.

LeBron James' career pts average for the 1st 3 seasons are 21 points, then 27, then 31. Does that mean by the end of his career hed be averaging 50-60 points a game? there is a limit of course, and you said it yourself, that that was at 12 in Shinn's case..
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Old 2006-05-31, 03:44   Link #14
Obi-Wan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103
Well, the GSD fans will always have Shinn on or at best near the bottom of their ace pilot list since they won't admit that he got totally nerfed at the end. And they'll especially never give him an ounce of respect since the GSD staff nerfed Kira so he would lose to Shinn. That definitely turned on the anti-Shinn flames of war for the Kira fans.
Doesn't change the fact that Shinn sucked at the end. You can go on and on about how Shinn got nerfed by Morosawa, but it's not going to change the fact that it happened. Quit using out of universe theories to prove your point. It's a weak arguement to say that Kira was nerfed as well, because he admits he didn't try against Shinn later in the series. Whine your ass off about plot devices and nerfing all you want. It doesn't change anything. Shinn beat Kira because Kira didn't try, and Athrun beat Shinn because Shinn was out of his league. Did you even stop to think they made Athrun suck for half the series in order to bring him back to glory at the end?

Quote:
But based on how Shinn was at the beginning of GSD (thus bypassing the nerfing he got from in the later part of the series), and then logically estimating how he should have progressed through the series from there as he gained experience instead of getting the 99.9% nerf (I say 99.9% because he still got some credit for dodging Kira's saber slash in PHASE 28), I'd say Shinn would probably win, especially since he has SEED mode.
By that logic, Kira should get better and better as he fights, meaning at the beginning of GSD he was already better than Shinn, and because he gained more experience fighting in GSD, then he definitely should've been better than Shinn and Rey at the end. If you really believe that logic, then you should bite your tongue off the next time you launch into some ridiculous post about Kira being God or Jesus or whatever else you idiots come up with.

Quote:
And before Obi goes into hyper "screw you and whatever opinoins you have, 'UC homer'!" mode, I'll lay it out that the stating of nerfing in this post was to say that they later episodes of GSD are not good judging material and thus are not including in my calculations for anybodys' skills.
Nice flamebait but I'm not biting. And seriously, wake up and come back to reality Shinji. You can't toss out a third of the series just because you're a Shinn fanboy and you don't like what they did to Shinn at the end.
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Old 2006-05-31, 04:13   Link #15
kaito-kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Translation: I just got owned.

Damn Shinji, did you learn how to debate at the wingdarkness school of forum debating or what?
i'm starting to love that song

btw, the whole 'shinn got nerfed' stuff seems to be a big excuse from the shinn fans for every little action he did which made no sense or every time when shinn just suckd.
But may be it's just me...

(and sorry for my bad english)
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Old 2006-05-31, 04:42   Link #16
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if shinn defeated kira with impulse against freedom, how can shinn lose to yzak if yzak lost so many times to kira?!
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Old 2006-05-31, 04:54   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a03
if shinn defeated kira with impulse against freedom, how can shinn lose to yzak if yzak lost so many times to kira?!
Kira states in the series that he did not try to beat Shinn because he thought he shouldn't be fighting ZAFT at that time. Therefore it's not a good judge of Yzak's record against Kira. Yzak would have beat Kira in that scenario too. Kira folded in that battle. I am not resorting to some out-of-universe assumption that Kira got nerfed by bad writing. Kira says he didn't try to beat Shinn in the series. Kira's total pwning of Shinn in Strike Freedom at Orb goes to show what Kira can do when he is trying to beat Shinn. So yes, Shinn beat Kira in that fight. But if Kira wasn't going to try to win that fight, wouldn't Yzak beat him that way too? Your point is void.
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Old 2006-05-31, 05:02   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Kira states in the series that he did not try to beat Shinn because he thought he shouldn't be fighting ZAFT at that time. Therefore it's not a good judge of Yzak's record against Kira. Yzak would have beat Kira in that scenario too. Kira folded in that battle. I am not resorting to some out-of-universe assumption that Kira got nerfed by bad writing. Kira says he didn't try to beat Shinn in the series. Kira's total pwning of Shinn in Strike Freedom at Orb goes to show what Kira can do when he is trying to beat Shinn. So yes, Shinn beat Kira in that fight. But if Kira wasn't going to try to win that fight, wouldn't Yzak beat him that way too? Your point is void.
a defeat is a defeat.... you can't change the point that freedom lost to impulse.... it's his fault for not taking it seriously....... -__________-|||| and SF never beat Destiny before, it was IJ that always kicked destiny's ass......
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Old 2006-05-31, 05:07   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a03
a defeat is a defeat.... you can't change the point that freedom lost to impulse.... it's his fault for not taking it seriously....... -__________-|||| and SF never beat Destiny before, it was IJ that always kicked destiny's ass......
Yes, I am not arguing the fact that Kira lost. I am arguing that you said because Shinn beat him and Yzak never could, that makes Shinn better than Yzak. Yzak would have beat Kira in that fight too because Kira wasn't fighting to win.

Kira beat Shinn at Orb before Athrun even received Justice. Did you not watch the episode where Kira came back from space and saved Cagalli, then beat Shinn's ass so hard that Destiny lost all of its weapons and ran out of battery, forcing Shinn to retreat? Guess not.
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Old 2006-05-31, 05:22   Link #20
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a defeat is a defeat.... you can't change the point that freedom lost to impulse.... it's his fault for not taking it seriously....... -__________-|||| ......
yes a defeat is a defeat but werent you just saying why couldnt shinn beat yzak if he beat kira in ep34? and obi awnser you that?

shinn will need to think of a new strategy with yzak as yzak has no kill policy and wont be out-number as it would be a one on one and yzak not worried if Dearka could be kill lol like kira with AA

Quote:
and SF never beat Destiny before, it was IJ that always kicked destiny's ass
i agreed with you on that .. but it pissed shinn the most as he knew kira could finish the battle anytime he wanted, ep 34 disable impulse head/arm ep 42 used the Railguns instead of the belly canon "are you trying to say if that were a beam this would be finish already" something like that shinn said. ep23 instead of disabling impulse kira could had Aim at the cockpick. i think there more scenes where shinn felt UMILIATED by the Freedoms pilot.

heck if kira were to drop his killing policy ep 34 with Freedom being destroy would had never happen . but fukuda would never let kira drop his no kill policy
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