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Old 2007-04-04, 22:38   Link #221
Crusader
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I wouldn't say that lacus isn't Smart, but i think she just has good common sense.

While i dislike her, i've come to respect her. Hey it's not her fault that the writing was shoddy, but anywhow back to the point.

The smartest thing lacus ever said was something along the lines of "We offer peace in one hand but war in the other" or something to that effect. Thats here way of saying she's a hypocrite, well actually she sees that fighting is necessary to accomplish the end of a genocidal war. If anything shes has been Zaft's biggest problem. Lets face facts people she is the lesser of three evils- Ala Patrick/Genesis and Gilbert/Destiny Plan, Reqiuium, Neo Genesis.

The only time i would really bash her was if she was compared to Relena, with her fans bashing relena on with the bulk of theri arguments being fanisim or she accomplished her goal relena didn't.

The thing i do like about her chracter is, after teh first war she went to live her life with kira, and not stick around. She left Zaft alone, and didn't really get dragged in until the assasination attempt on her life, even then thats understandible. Wouldn't you be curious as to who tried to kill you. Lacus has never said that she would take on the peace maker job perminantly, but after the second war it's apparant that her peacemaking abilites are needed.

Sure she had luck on her side, but there is always a price. Her father died, Several attempts on her life, She had to give up her life of seclusion, so i'd say she paid her dues. So what if she made the right allies, and the ultimate coordinator just happens to be her bf.

But as i said before, she has good common sense.
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Old 2007-04-04, 23:27   Link #222
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The smartest thing lacus ever said was something along the lines of "We offer peace in one hand but war in the other" or something to that effect.
I'd say that the smartest thing about Lacus is that she poses questions that her enemies have no way of responding to. This is why Durandal didn't say diddly about her after she openly spoke out. In Sun Tzu terms, I believe that this would be considered attacking their strategies.
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Old 2007-04-07, 00:30   Link #223
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One thing many people assume is that Lacus is a naive idol bombshell. And while she isn't a goddess or messiah she's far more capable than she looks. What makes her different from Relena Peacecraft? A lot of things. They have very similar ideals if not hopes but went about in very different ways and results.




P.S. I for a split second wondered if this was an anti-Lacus thread. I had read a few negative or doubtful posts about Lacus elsewhere right before I saw this thread and briefly mistook the thread title as 'Lacus Clyne... the Pie Hole Character'. My bad....
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Old 2007-04-07, 00:38   Link #224
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I'm sure Kira wishes for that, too.
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Old 2007-04-07, 16:53   Link #225
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'd say that the smartest thing about Lacus is that she poses questions that her enemies have no way of responding to. This is why Durandal didn't say diddly about her after she openly spoke out. In Sun Tzu terms, I believe that this would be considered attacking their strategies.
Which is basically, as i, said common sense, but i never looked at it like that. Well not to mention she considered the morality of the conflicts. How morale was the war, and Gilbert? Not very. If anything, she symbolized morality in two amoral wars.
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Old 2007-04-07, 23:40   Link #226
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Originally Posted by WhiteWings
One thing many people assume is that Lacus is a naive idol bombshell. And while she isn't a goddess or messiah she's far more capable than she looks. What makes her different from Relena Peacecraft? A lot of things. They have very similar ideals if not hopes but went about in very different ways and results.
I'd say that even their ideals aren't really all that similar - the primary point of difference being that Relena is a pacifist, while Lacus most certainly isn't.

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Originally Posted by Crusader
Which is basically, as i, said common sense, but i never looked at it like that. Well not to mention she considered the morality of the conflicts. How morale was the war, and Gilbert? Not very. If anything, she symbolized morality in two amoral wars.
I'm not sure that I'd characterize making moves that your enemy is incapable of responding to as common sense, but I think you have a point about morality. Wars have a tendency to self-propagate, and it's often important for someone to examine the point of a war from time to time.
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Old 2007-04-08, 02:41   Link #227
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The only best thing Lacus said and did is this.

" I offer you Strike Freedom Gundam"

She shows Strike Freedom Gundam to Kira.

Another thing i like about Lacus.

Lacus says " Die my stupid clone hahaha!"

Another thing about Lacus.

Lacus: " I like you Kira, because youre arent a virgin. This will be youre second virgin, because im a stupid bitch Kira!"
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Old 2007-04-08, 22:40   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
The only best thing Lacus said and did is this.

" I offer you Strike Freedom Gundam"

She shows Strike Freedom Gundam to Kira.

Another thing i like about Lacus.

Lacus says " Die my stupid clone hahaha!"

Another thing about Lacus.

Lacus: " I like you Kira, because youre arent a virgin. This will be youre second virgin, because im a stupid bitch Kira!"
We must each have been watching different versions of GSD, because I do not, in any way recall Lacus saying anything like that in Gundam SEED Destiny. Ah, that is so sad..
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Old 2008-05-20, 01:31   Link #229
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Lacus clyne probably the character who made gundam seed lame :]
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Old 2008-05-21, 13:14   Link #230
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Lacus clyne probably the character who made gundam seed lame :]
Guess it depends on perspective. If you like interesting stories, then Gundam Seed Destiny is lame and so is Lacus. But if you're like me, Lacus Clyne and Kira Yamato is what kept me into Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny. I enjoyed it to say the least.
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Old 2008-05-21, 19:03   Link #231
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Bah, I've seen Mary Sues who were more interesting than Lacus Clyne. As far as originality goes, Lacus is far from exceptional: just another one of those beautiful idealistic women who stick to their morals and whom everyone with half a heart loves and respects for their infinite patience and wisdom.

Or, as someone once put it, about as complex and deep as a seedless grape. Where's the human connection, the inner struggle? Where's there any exploration of doubts and confusion past the most superficial of monologues? Lacus Clyne would be so much more palatable if she had a character flaw past being unable to defend herself. That pathetic excuse of a flaw if infinitely boring.
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Old 2008-05-21, 23:42   Link #232
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Bah, I've seen Mary Sues who were more interesting than Lacus Clyne. As far as originality goes, Lacus is far from exceptional: just another one of those beautiful idealistic women who stick to their morals and whom everyone with half a heart loves and respects for their infinite patience and wisdom.

Or, as someone once put it, about as complex and deep as a seedless grape. Where's the human connection, the inner struggle? Where's there any exploration of doubts and confusion past the most superficial of monologues? Lacus Clyne would be so much more palatable if she had a character flaw past being unable to defend herself. That pathetic excuse of a flaw if infinitely boring.
Woah, I wasn't aware that people didn't like Lacus for her "personality" and character background. I don't think that Lacus was overly interesting as far as character psychology goes, but she was an interesting character. She started out as an airhead pop-star, and I found it to be a powerful moment when she showed that she had a strong-willed and serious side, as well. Gundam SEED did a better job of switching off the care-free and goofy side of her with the serious and strong-willed aspect, but in Gundam SEED Destiny she was pretty much all serious, all the time. Her character definitely suffered there, but Destiny seems to have rubbed a lot of us SEED fans the wrong way with how characters were handled.
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Old 2008-05-22, 06:06   Link #233
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Woah, I wasn't aware that people didn't like Lacus for her "personality" and character background. I don't think that Lacus was overly interesting as far as character psychology goes, but she was an interesting character. She started out as an airhead pop-star, and I found it to be a powerful moment when she showed that she had a strong-willed and serious side, as well. Gundam SEED did a better job of switching off the care-free and goofy side of her with the serious and strong-willed aspect, but in Gundam SEED Destiny she was pretty much all serious, all the time. Her character definitely suffered there, but Destiny seems to have rubbed a lot of us SEED fans the wrong way with how characters were handled.
And this one point is representative of the whole problem: she didn't develop into it. She was always that way, despite the helpless-princess character she was earlier. And there's no real rhyme or reason for it: it's like the writer completely changed characters in mid series, and forgot any and all development. Here she is being generic helpless beautiful nice princess #235260434, her father dies, she gets a single scene to cry into Kira's armm, and goes on to be super-political strong-willed infallible female politician. She never even looks back to her father's death afterwards! Never a tear, a mention, a reflection on the ZAFT 'moderate' who killed more Naturals than Durrandle and Zala combined when he dropped the Neutron Jammers. Even I give credit to Destiny for Athrun's Zala-guilt trip.

But Lacus? She has no development worth the name, she has no individual character worth the name, and she has no unique purpose or attributes besides (if the Morosawa interview was true) being a giant Mary-Sue self-insert for Morosawa. You could easily replace Lacus Clyne with any number of women from various other series, and would see little loss and a great potential for improvement. Even the equally-Mary Sueish Bellandy: at least she's up front about being a goddess, and has powers that could help!
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Old 2008-05-22, 12:56   Link #234
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I agree with you in general, although it didn't bother me as much. I did want to point out that she didn't have a sudden change after her father's death, though.

When she was first introduced she was a total mystery, as she seemed to be incredibly spacey and child-like. We saw that she had a serious side during the episode where Kira returned Lacus to Athrun (probably one of my favorite episodes of the series; I found it to be incredibly touching). As you may recall, during the exchange of Lacus, and after Kira and Athrun's initial conversation, the other ZAFT forces moved to attack. At that point Lacus, without asking for Athrun's permission or help, activated the intercomm and commanded the ZAFT forces to stand down. That was the first time that we saw that there was more to Lacus than we'd initially witnessed.

Given that scene, I don't feel that Lacus suddenly changed after her father's death. She certainly exhibited fewer care-free moments after her father's death, but by then she was also considered a fugitive and was on the run. She still showed some light-hearted, silly moments in SEED, too. I didn't perceive it to be a sudden change in her personality, so much as that we initially came in with a different view of who she was based on what we'd seen and heard of her, and then when we actually "met her" in the series we discovered that she was actually smarter and stronger than we'd initially thought.
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Old 2008-05-22, 18:36   Link #235
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I think we have a mutual understanding on her. I just find that kind of character insufferably boring, and it grates on my nerves when people praise her to high heaven for being such a great and wonderful and original character.

(Not you, I might add: I can understand your reasonings even if I don't share them. You recognize her static-ness and accept it, which is an entirely different field from those who don't recognize it at all. Sometimes a permanently stable character can be refreshing.)


Edit: I might add that there could be a number of ways to re-work her character to make it much more interesting while still maintaining her role, and they mostly boil down to giving her internal conflict. If Destiny had thrown in a conflict about her repeating the mistakes of her father in carrying out her ideals in wrong ways, even if she still made the same decisions it would show that she's actually considering them. If Lacus had to deal with a opposing (but not murderous) presence in the PLANT and military who oppose her, or had to deal with Natural distrust and hatred, it could help. How would Mrs. Clyne act towards 9 year-old orphan Annie, who's father died in the final battle because those nuclear missiles were stopped before they could blow up ZAFT?
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Old 2008-05-22, 19:29   Link #236
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Politically, Lacus was the character of utmost importance, but her role fades next to Kira's internal struggle (OMFG! Too much war! Have to kill! Have to fight my frriend! I AM A GENETIC PRODUCT!) and Athrun's problems (Why do I fight? Which side should I take? My father's legacy is such a burden! Have to gfight my friend! MY GF IS A BUSY POLITICIAN!) on whom the story obviously is more focused. I've never expected anything more from Lacus than her generic strong-willed princessness has shown. Arguing whether she is "original" or not is out of question. Her role was not to be "interesting" but to be just charming and righteous. Whether she really was successful in it, depends really on the viewer's degree of "pinky-sweet-pie-all-good" acceptance.
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Old 2008-05-22, 22:34   Link #237
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I am a big Lacus fan...obviously lol but I also think she has her overly righteous moments. Though she's one of my favorite GS characters.(I love her singing!) I think she has her priorities right and i think she's doing the right thing and I really enjoy her and Kira's relationship. But she's definitely not a very original character and I agree with Sir Dearka that she was meant to be righteous and charming. She does a very good job of that though. I think she's a great cute-sy character.
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Old 2008-05-23, 01:31   Link #238
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Or, as someone once put it, about as complex and deep as a seedless grape. Where's the human connection, the inner struggle? Where's there any exploration of doubts and confusion past the most superficial of monologues? Lacus Clyne would be so much more palatable if she had a character flaw past being unable to defend herself. That pathetic excuse of a flaw if infinitely boring.
The creators went with a different approach to Lacus than most of the characters in Seed/Destiny. We never get to go inside her mind, so any conflict or doubts are masked by her other character traits. She's very much one of those "Show, don't tell" characters, and I rather appreciate that in a show (and franchise for that matter) that's not particularly well known for subtlety or deftness. I think that what we see of them lends credence to her being a rather deep and multi-faceted character.

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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Woah, I wasn't aware that people didn't like Lacus for her "personality" and character background. I don't think that Lacus was overly interesting as far as character psychology goes, but she was an interesting character. She started out as an airhead pop-star, and I found it to be a powerful moment when she showed that she had a strong-willed and serious side, as well. Gundam SEED did a better job of switching off the care-free and goofy side of her with the serious and strong-willed aspect, but in Gundam SEED Destiny she was pretty much all serious, all the time. Her character definitely suffered there, but Destiny seems to have rubbed a lot of us SEED fans the wrong way with how characters were handled.
I found it the other way around. I don't think that we got enough information about Lacus' psychology in Seed; partly because she seemed to change every time she showed up in a group of episodes, but partly because she was undercharacterized as well. By the end of Seed, I can't say that I liked her all that much.

I liked the way she was handled in Destiny much more. Here we learned much more about her, and the way her character operated "clicked" with me. I especially liked the way her personality came through even though many of her significant actions occurred off-screen.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
And this one point is representative of the whole problem: she didn't develop into it. She was always that way, despite the helpless-princess character she was earlier. And there's no real rhyme or reason for it: it's like the writer completely changed characters in mid series, and forgot any and all development.
The reason that you can't really see a reason for her change is because there really wasn't any change to begin with. She's much the same character at the beginning of Seed as she was at the end of it. All she was doing throughout was to hide behind different facades to different characters. It was only with Kira that she was able to abandon her facades, and show her insecurities.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Here she is being generic helpless beautiful nice princess #235260434, her father dies, she gets a single scene to cry into Kira's armm, and goes on to be super-political strong-willed infallible female politician. She never even looks back to her father's death afterwards! Never a tear, a mention, a reflection on the ZAFT 'moderate' who killed more Naturals than Durrandle and Zala combined when he dropped the Neutron Jammers. Even I give credit to Destiny for Athrun's Zala-guilt trip.
Much of that is due to the way the creators decided to reveal her character. Indirect characterization is certainly an approach that doesn't work with everyone, but its unfair to claim that it isn't there.

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But Lacus? She has no development worth the name, she has no individual character worth the name, and she has no unique purpose or attributes besides (if the Morosawa interview was true) being a giant Mary-Sue self-insert for Morosawa. You could easily replace Lacus Clyne with any number of women from various other series, and would see little loss and a great potential for improvement. Even the equally-Mary Sueish Bellandy: at least she's up front about being a goddess, and has powers that could help!
I'm not getting involved in the question of originality, but I think that you're conflating the issue of "no development" (i.e. characterization) with "no major character change" (and to be honest, I'm not even sure if that's what you really mean). Where do you find her characterization lacking?

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
If Destiny had thrown in a conflict about her repeating the mistakes of her father in carrying out her ideals in wrong ways, even if she still made the same decisions it would show that she's actually considering them. If Lacus had to deal with a opposing (but not murderous) presence in the PLANT and military who oppose her, or had to deal with Natural distrust and hatred, it could help. How would Mrs. Clyne act towards 9 year-old orphan Annie, who's father died in the final battle because those nuclear missiles were stopped before they could blow up ZAFT?
Destiny really wasn't the kind of show where there's room for those kind of questions, but we do see a hint of in the episode "Meer".

Given what we know of Lacus' character, the last one's easy to answer: she would be sad (and would mean it) and express her regrets about the loss of life. She's still far too much of a pragmatist to let that kind of thing get to her all that much. After all, Lacus can be quite ruthless when the situation calls for it - recall what happened near the end of Seed when Vesalius blocked the escape path of Eternal, Freedom, and Kusanagi.
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Old 2008-05-23, 12:06   Link #239
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The creators went with a different approach to Lacus than most of the characters in Seed/Destiny. We never get to go inside her mind, so any conflict or doubts are masked by her other character traits. She's very much one of those "Show, don't tell" characters, and I rather appreciate that in a show (and franchise for that matter) that's not particularly well known for subtlety or deftness. I think that what we see of them lends credence to her being a rather deep and multi-faceted character.
"Most" other characters? By which you mean Kira, Athrun, Cagelli, and Shinn? Lacus got about the same kind of approach as Mwu, Ramius, or Djrilbil, IE the "what you see is what you get" form of character development. That people can come up with all sorts of out-of-universe proofs and suggestions all highlight a very crucial fact: that in a series which had no problem embellishing the inner thoughts of characters with lengthy flashbacks, internal monologues, and so on, it completely skipped vast swaths of explanation and exploration for Lacus.

Quote:
I found it the other way around. I don't think that we got enough information about Lacus' psychology in Seed; partly because she seemed to change every time she showed up in a group of episodes, but partly because she was undercharacterized as well. By the end of Seed, I can't say that I liked her all that much.
How is this any different from what I said? I said that she was always that way, but the writers didn't give any indication of it. You're saying she was always this way, and I'm reading an implication that she was faking it for some abstract reason that was never really explained.
Quote:

I liked the way she was handled in Destiny much more. Here we learned much more about her, and the way her character operated "clicked" with me. I especially liked the way her personality came through even though many of her significant actions occurred off-screen.
Personal preference here, though having so much off-screen important actions occur in a series so infamous for flashbacks, stock footage, and recap episodes is a ding against the quality of the show.
Quote:

The reason that you can't really see a reason for her change is because there really wasn't any change to begin with. She's much the same character at the beginning of Seed as she was at the end of it. All she was doing throughout was to hide behind different facades to different characters. It was only with Kira that she was able to abandon her facades, and show her insecurities.
See two replies above: I was already agreeing with you on the main point.

Though why she feels a need to cynically change masks for everyone except one random guy is never really touched on, much to her character's loss. Lacus is never really shown to resent being an idol, to get tired/disgusted/not enjoy being a beloved idol to her fans, or to fear what people think of her. So 'faking it' to anyone and everyone is something that needs to be addressed on-screen, not filled in by outside speculation.
Quote:
Much of that is due to the way the creators decided to reveal her character. Indirect characterization is certainly an approach that doesn't work with everyone, but its unfair to claim that it isn't there.
Unfortunately, I disagree strongly here. I won't say you're reading much too far into it, but Seed and Destiny had a very uniform way of character development: forcing it into your throat with all the subtlety of a bludgeon. Internal monologues, screams of agony and rage, sweet dramatic touching moments, and all the others.

And for the on-screen development she does get, Lacus also fits that formula. She has her monologues, her exposed personality, confessions of sincerity, her character-defining actions of nobility and purity and whatnot. Lacus is handled in much the same manner of all other Seed and Destiny characters, and I find the argument that she alone is somehow graced with an entirely unique, completely different, special kind of character development to be, well, spurious at best.
Quote:
I'm not getting involved in the question of originality, but I think that you're conflating the issue of "no development" (i.e. characterization) with "no major character change" (and to be honest, I'm not even sure if that's what you really mean). Where do you find her characterization lacking?
It blends.

Point one (that you won't get into): She's not original
Point two (that you've agreed to earlier in this post): That she hasn't developed, and has been the way she always is.

Those are my issues with her handling as a character, not related to what her character actually is. I much prefer to observe dynamic characters who evolve and have the chances to evolve in different directions, who can be memorable on their own right, who have open flaws that they are forced to acknowledge even if they never overcome them.

That is where I find her characterization lacking. I also find her character (as in traits, beliefs, etc.) lacking, but that goes into my own values. I am a cynic, a utilitarian, and a prospective military man, and I find many of Lacus's beliefs, judgements, and actions wrong.


Quote:
Destiny really wasn't the kind of show where there's room for those kind of questions, but we do see a hint of in the episode "Meer".
Destiny had plenty of room, but Morosawa's fits of --------ness hijacked and ruined it. With more internal disciplin and efficiency, stock reusage, extensive flashbacks, and the numerous recap episodes (and even the later retcons) could have addressed the issue of time. I do not consider "hints" that require fan speculation to fill in to be proper or complete development, as I have indicated above.

Besides, the entire episode of "Meer" was absurd of its own, as much as the battle of Heaven's Base. When a genocidal murderer has escaped and seized control of a giant laser and is pointing them at the space colonies, let's declare ouropposition to the leader of the space colonies on accusations we have not found proof of, and then go shopping! We have plenty of time!
Quote:
Given what we know of Lacus' character, the last one's easy to answer: she would be sad (and would mean it) and express her regrets about the loss of life. She's still far too much of a pragmatist to let that kind of thing get to her all that much. After all, Lacus can be quite ruthless when the situation calls for it - recall what happened near the end of Seed when Vesalius blocked the escape path of Eternal, Freedom, and Kusanagi.
If she's such a pragmatist and goal-oriented person willing to walk over others, why did she destroy the one secure chance for eternal peace, and instead simply leave the exact some issues that started the conflict in another? The Destiny Plan would be a boring but peaceful existence for those inside it: isn't that exactly how she and Kira would like to live the rest of their days? Bloodless monotony?
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Old 2008-05-24, 00:30   Link #240
4Tran
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"Most" other characters? By which you mean Kira, Athrun, Cagelli, and Shinn? Lacus got about the same kind of approach as Mwu, Ramius, or Djrilbil, IE the "what you see is what you get" form of character development. That people can come up with all sorts of out-of-universe proofs and suggestions all highlight a very crucial fact: that in a series which had no problem embellishing the inner thoughts of characters with lengthy flashbacks, internal monologues, and so on, it completely skipped vast swaths of explanation and exploration for Lacus.
"Most" as in most of the characters of any significance in Seed/Destiny, including the ones that you listed. For most of them, we got inside their heads, and they often expressed exactly what they were feeling about particular matters. With Lacus, she kept things to herself - sometimes not even informing Kira of her intentions. Pretty much all of her characterization was handled in a very indirect manner to the extent that they are derived from events that often weren't on-screen. You don't have to like this approach, but trying to deny that it isn't there doesn't seem to be a very fruitful avenue of argument.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
How is this any different from what I said? I said that she was always that way, but the writers didn't give any indication of it. You're saying she was always this way, and I'm reading an implication that she was faking it for some abstract reason that was never really explained.
Please pay attention: I was responding to Ledgem's points, not yours. Just because I don't agree with your overall assessment doesn't necessarily mean that I'm trying to refute everything you say.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
See two replies above: I was already agreeing with you on the main point.
Ah, but your wording was "And there's no real rhyme or reason for it: it's like the writer completely changed characters in mid series, and forgot any and all development"; and that was the precise point that I was refuting. There's a big difference between what you brought up and a character development technique of displaying different facets of a character at different points in time.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Though why she feels a need to cynically change masks for everyone except one random guy is never really touched on, much to her character's loss. Lacus is never really shown to resent being an idol, to get tired/disgusted/not enjoy being a beloved idol to her fans, or to fear what people think of her. So 'faking it' to anyone and everyone is something that needs to be addressed on-screen, not filled in by outside speculation.
"Why does she do that?" Why does there need to be a reason for a character to display different parts of her personality under different circumstances and to different people? I'm pretty sure that most people do this to a degree; Lacus simply takes it farther than most.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
And for the on-screen development she does get, Lacus also fits that formula. She has her monologues, her exposed personality, confessions of sincerity, her character-defining actions of nobility and purity and whatnot. Lacus is handled in much the same manner of all other Seed and Destiny characters, and I find the argument that she alone is somehow graced with an entirely unique, completely different, special kind of character development to be, well, spurious at best.
Lacus' monologues are almost always for the benefit of who she's speaking to and she usually holds back her feelings. There's plenty of examples: she never said anything about starting up an armed insurrection against Durandal when she told Kira she was going back into space, and when she spoke to Athrun at Orb, she never said anything about his stupidity for getting seduced by Athrun.

Why are you so adamant that she couldn't have been developed differently from most of the characters when all the evidence indicates that that's exactly what the creators did?

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Those are my issues with her handling as a character, not related to what her character actually is. I much prefer to observe dynamic characters who evolve and have the chances to evolve in different directions, who can be memorable on their own right, who have open flaws that they are forced to acknowledge even if they never overcome them.
But that's not a matter of finding her characterization lacking; that's a matter of not liking the style of development used. There's nothing wrong with the latter, but it's also a very subjective dislike - one that's akin to not liking anime because it's not live-action.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
That is where I find her characterization lacking. I also find her character (as in traits, beliefs, etc.) lacking, but that goes into my own values. I am a cynic, a utilitarian, and a prospective military man, and I find many of Lacus's beliefs, judgements, and actions wrong.
That's really strange since Lacus is just about the most pragmatic character in the show...

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Destiny had plenty of room, but Morosawa's fits of --------ness hijacked and ruined it. With more internal disciplin and efficiency, stock reusage, extensive flashbacks, and the numerous recap episodes (and even the later retcons) could have addressed the issue of time. I do not consider "hints" that require fan speculation to fill in to be proper or complete development, as I have indicated above.
Incorrect. It wasn't a matter of whether there was the time to do what you're talking about, but whether it fit the rest of the story thematically. It would largely run counter to everything else the creators had been trying to do with Lacus' character, so I really doubt that your ideas have all that much merit.

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Besides, the entire episode of "Meer" was absurd of its own, as much as the battle of Heaven's Base. When a genocidal murderer has escaped and seized control of a giant laser and is pointing them at the space colonies, let's declare ouropposition to the leader of the space colonies on accusations we have not found proof of, and then go shopping! We have plenty of time!
That's silly. "Meer" was entirely about the character of Meer and Lacus' reaction to learning more about her. None of what you're complaining about even showed up in that episode, so why are you bringing it up? Did you just get your episodes mixed up?

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
If she's such a pragmatist and goal-oriented person willing to walk over others, why did she destroy the one secure chance for eternal peace, and instead simply leave the exact some issues that started the conflict in another? The Destiny Plan would be a boring but peaceful existence for those inside it: isn't that exactly how she and Kira would like to live the rest of their days? Bloodless monotony?
The obvious reason is that the Destiny Plan wasn't a "secure chance for eternal peace" by any stretch of the imagination. In Destiny, Lacus was the pragmatist, and Durandal was the idealist.
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