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Old 2006-06-03, 01:10   Link #41
tritoch
 
 
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heh.

Count Meer's death to Lacus's mistake.
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Old 2006-06-03, 01:51   Link #42
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
Your wording is slightly off: I think that young leaders are historically commonplace. Some of these leaders were quite effective, and a few are renowned enough to be given a place among greatest leaders of all time. Hence Lacus being a great leader at a tender age is not really implausible.

I most certainly do not think that Lacus achieved "absolute victory"; I think that taking such a term seriously is a sign of naivety. One simply does not gauge the plausibility of an accomplishment by examining whether a historical action exactly parallels a hypothetical one. Instead, it's better to compare the relative scopes of the accomplishments with the resources available.

.
You seem to be dodging the intentions of the post...Forget "absolute victory"...Classify the end of GSD concearning Lacus' part with anyword of your liking and answer my orginal questions...Your parse-word game is not a good enuff response...I wouldn't blame you if you didn't have a response though regarding trying to translate Lacus to your orginal concept...Whether i'm naive or not is besides the point and the rest of your post serves as a good deflection technique as even tritoch indirectly notices...

Quote:
Given the circumstances of the C.E. vs the evidence of Lacus' manuvering to accomplish what she did, shouldn't the comparison atleast equate if her actions are as plausible as you deem??
Who equates, who is as skillful??

Quote:
Hence Lacus being a great leader at a tender age is not really implausible.
I'm asking you to dig deeper than the shell of this comment...If her greatness is plausible, why is it plausible??

Quite honestly I'm asking for more than you can possibly give..I just want to see how you deal with it...The more you rollerskate tells me there isn't enuff evidence to support Lacus' plausibility as a great leader especially in a comparison of real societal leaders...If you can't provide any young leaders whose successes are as plausible as Lacus', how can Lacus be plausible?? And answer these questions even if it just serves to entertain me please...Either you have an answer or you dont...
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Old 2006-06-03, 02:42   Link #43
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
I think wingdarkness wants you to give him a concrete example. Find some young leaders. Google it..
I shouldn't have to. I already brought up Alexander. Anyone unfamiliar with his accomplishments has no place in saying what is and is not plausible for a leader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
I wasn't judging anyone harshly, I don't know where you got that. I'm saying alot of fans DO that however, and just plain dislikes Lacus for what she is (flawless). I really don't see a connection in the first place.
SNT1, I wasn't really blaming you for it. I was just struck by the sheer irrationality of that argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
Although at the top of my head, I can't seem to think of any scene where Lacus made a mistake
Let's start with the obvious one: Lacus exposes herself to far too much personal danger. A noncombatant leader should never endanger herself in this manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
You seem to be dodging the intentions of the post...Forget "absolute victory"...Classify the end of GSD concearning Lacus' part with anyword of your liking and answer my orginal questions...Your parse-word game is not a good enuff response...I wouldn't blame you if you didn't have a response though regarding trying to translate Lacus to your orginal concept...Whether i'm naive or not is besides the point and the rest of your post serves as a good deflection technique as even tritoch indirectly notices...
Nonsense. wingdarkness, If you reread what I wrote, I'm quite plainly outright rejecting your premise of using equivalent actions as proof of plausibility. This is a burden of proof issue: if you think that what Lacus did at the end of Destiny was unlikely, then bring up the details of what you find troublesome. If you want me to address your specific concerns, then you should at least have the courtesy of explaining what they are. If you don't have any specific concerns, then your argument is nothing but hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
I'm asking you to dig deeper than the shell of this comment...If her greatness is plausible, why is it plausible??
This is a nonsensical question. If I turn it around, why is it plausible for Einstein to be a superb physicist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Quite honestly I'm asking for more than you can possibly give..I just want to see how you deal with it...The more you rollerskate tells me there isn't enuff evidence to support Lacus' plausibility as a great leader especially in a comparison of real societal leaders...If you can't provide any young leaders whose successes are as plausible as Lacus', how can Lacus be plausible?? And answer these questions even if it just serves to entertain me please...Either you have an answer or you dont...
How is anything that Lacus did more outlandish than, say Alexander or Kang Xi did? What the heck do you think that she managed to accomplish in the first place?
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Old 2006-06-03, 02:51   Link #44
tritoch
 
 
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err. 4Tran, I didn't watch Alexander nor did take any classes in World History so I don't know

Also, good question, what did Lacus accomplish in the first place?

I already stated that she didn't accede into any political power after Seed infact, she did the opposite, she went into seclusion. It's called the CLYNE FACTION not LACUS FACTION. For all we know, her father did everything ahead and just made sure that Lacus was the catalyst (she already had the criteria: fiancee of the son of the chairman, popular songstress). Let's not forget her talented personel consisting of Waltfeld, Dacosta and ofcourse, the entire FACTION. She may seem perfect but how much of it was made by her personal actions and how much of it was given to her by her father and ofcourse her personel.

Im going in circles.
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Old 2006-06-03, 03:04   Link #45
SNT1
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Quote:
Let's start with the obvious one: Lacus exposes herself to far too much personal danger. A noncombatant leader should never endanger herself in this manner.
I'm willing to think she is highly confident with her thugs anyway XD

Lacus: "Ima go shopping for some clothes in the mall, but I'm pretty safe that Athrun will Syphon-filter everyone who dares assassinate me! (Kira, you can pose with your water gun for photo ops)
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Old 2006-06-03, 03:06   Link #46
tritoch
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
heh.

Count Meer's death to Lacus's mistake.

Okay shopping for clothes = murder

Big mistake Ms.Clyne
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Old 2006-06-03, 09:23   Link #47
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
err. 4Tran, I didn't watch Alexander nor did take any classes in World History so I don't know
OK. Here's a quick rundown:

Philip of Macedon builds a large army in the interest of conquering his immediate neighbors.
He dies before he gets much of a chance to use it.
His son, Alexander, becomes the king of Macedon at the age of 20 and proceeds with his father's plans.
Alexander ends up conquering just about all of the known world, and builds an empire stretching from Greece to India.
Along the way, he fought in many major battles, often facing vastly superior numbers. Alexander still ended up winning all of his battles.
And so on...

If you substitute "Philip" with "Sigel" and "conquer the world" with "end a ruinous war", and you should get the gist of what I'm getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
I'm willing to think she is highly confident with her thugs anyway XD
I'm mostly referring to Lacus' tendency to expose Eternal to danger while she's onboard. The most telling instance is episode 39, where she could have easily launched Eternal while she stayed in the relative safety of the Factory.
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Old 2006-06-03, 10:01   Link #48
Demongod86
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Want a great young leader? Alex the great. He conquered THE ENTIRE [known] WORLD by 20. Or how about Temujin aka Genghis Khan? As soon as he was old enough to lead, he went and crushed the nearest enemy tribes and united his people. And then of course conquered just about the entire known world. Lacus's achievements historically aren't that implausible, even winning with a far lesser army (see: MONGOLS).
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Old 2006-06-03, 12:43   Link #49
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
I'm mostly referring to Lacus' tendency to expose Eternal to danger while she's onboard. The most telling instance is episode 39, where she could have easily launched Eternal while she stayed in the relative safety of the Factory.
The Factory, once its position revealed, was not safe at all. No mobility, no weapons we know of...

But I agree that Lacus is too reckless with her life, and that Eternal is a tender that should stay well behind the lines, once its MS and the meteors are launched. For that matter, instead of using it as her flag, she could stay aboard the AA, which is much better armed and armored. (But then, Yzak wouldn't have an excuse to protect her...)

Other Lacus mistakes: until the assassination attempt and Meer, she was totally buying Dully's nice guy act. She was also blindsided by Break the World and all related matters - so much for her so-called omniscience.
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:14   Link #50
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Er, Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster, I just wanted to through in my two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
OK. Here's a quick rundown:

Philip of Macedon builds a large army in the interest of conquering his immediate neighbors.
He dies before he gets much of a chance to use it.
His son, Alexander, becomes the king of Macedon at the age of 20 and proceeds with his father's plans.
Alexander ends up conquering just about all of the known world, and builds an empire stretching from Greece to India.
Along the way, he fought in many major battles, often facing vastly superior numbers. Alexander still ended up winning all of his battles.
And so on...

If you substitute "Philip" with "Sigel" and "conquer the world" with "end a ruinous war", and you should get the gist of what I'm getting at.
Why don't you finish the story? When he began his invation of India, his army took heavy losses from the armies of the local kingdoms. Eventually, Alexander's entire army muntied, and he was forced to return to his empire without finishing the conquest. After returning, his best friend (and possible lover) died, sending Alexander himself into a depression and dying shortly after of an illness. Not to mention that he had alienated many of his own people by adopting persian dress, and that he had to execute several of his millitary governors for misbehavior.

Not to say that he wasn't a genius, and a fabulous leader, but not every thing worked out as he wanted, and he made some pretty big missteps. He assumed that his men were loyal to the death. Instead, they were loyal to a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
That's utterly bizarre: basically, you're suggesting that we should judge Lacus more harshly than Relena because Lacus is the better leader!
Alright, let me try to explain why we like a character who is naive and idealistic, and makes mistakes because of it, more than a character who is naive and idealistic, and does everything right because of it.

Lets say, that in the next Gundam SEED Series, a new character is introduced. She is Kira's previously unknown second sister, is another ultimate coordiator, SEED factor positive, and a Newtype. She has her own Gundam, Majesty lets call it, that can defeat every other moble suit in the Cosmic Era, without damage. She's a better pilot than Kira, Athrun, Shinn, Mwu/Neo/whatever, and Lunamaria combined. Athrun, Shinn, and Mwu/Neo/whatever, by the way, fall completely in love with her at first sight and spend most of the series fighting over her. She leads her own private millitary force independant from the Clyne Faction, ZAFT, Orb, and the EA. Everyone in said faction is unbendingly loyal to her. She is a better singer than Lacus, wears a shorter skirt than Lunamaria, and is the heir to the Kingdom of Faroffshinyplace, a land where there is no conflict between Naturals and coordinators, and everyone lives in peace. Whenever Lacus is in the same scene as she is, she (Lacus) begins acting stuck up and concieted, and becomes oddly incompitant, allowing the new character to run rings around her. Eventually, the new character and her faction defeat, well, everyone since Lacus was planning to build a new GENESIS, and she brings eternal peace to the earth forevermore.

Sound like a character you could like?

Such characters are commonly called "Mary Sues" by the fanfiction community. A Mary Sue is a character who is given either no flaws or only simpathetic flaws (she cares about everyone too much). A Mary Sue is not allowed to fail or be hurt, even if she does something incredibly dangerous, because she's either skilled enough to get out of it, or has justified perfect trust in those who protect her. She can do everything, and usually does. Any one who the Mary Sue does not like, or who does not like the Mary Sue, ends up failing.

This is why many of us do not like Lacus. She never has hardship, except when convient for her(The death of her father put her in control of the Clyne faction, for example). If she does make a bad decision, it never hurts her, because either she or someone else fixes it before it does. She never truely suffers, and always remains a shining ideal. The story of SEED and Destiny revolves around her more than it does Kira, Athrun, and Shinn, at times. Take what happens after Strike is destroyed, for example. Why does Reverend Malchio send Kira to Lacus? There must have been somewhere closer and more convient for Kira to go to recouperate, not to mention more private. The answer is simple as long as you understand that Kira was sent there so that he could develop his relationship with Lacus, and so that she could be the one who gave him Freedom. Why did Shinn always turn crazy and psycotic when he fought the Clyne faction, when he was skilled enough to beat five Destroys at once when she wasn't around? Because Lacus, Kira, and the Clyne faction needed to triumph over a powerful, evil enemy. As I once aptly heard it put: "A character exists to serve the story. A Mary Sue exists to have the story serve them."
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:24   Link #51
SNT1
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wow, well said O_O

I generally dont have a problem with Kids running the world since a. As people pointed out, there have been great young leaders in real history and b. there have been great young leaders in gundam. So 18yr old gals ruling the world isnt a prob for me at all.

But the fact that Lacus can do no wrong >.> thats the problem. Putting herself in supposed danger (ep.13, 39, 46) wasn't even a real mistake at all---her thug(s) always comes in to serve the opponents' asses.

Did I mention she never gets angry?
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:29   Link #52
tritoch
 
 
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She went into Seed mode in GSD.
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:35   Link #53
SNT1
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Quote:
She went into Seed mode in GSD
might even be a newtype too (sensing Kira's troubled while fighting Rey)
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:36   Link #54
tritoch
 
 
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That IS probably the closest thing you could see to a plot hole, with Kira being delivered. Read the Astray Manga. Lowe delivers Kira to Malchio. Malchio remembers Lacus mentioning what a great guy Kira was when she was on AA, Malchio calls up Lacus to tell her what he found, Lacus says to ship him up there. Yes, she entrusted to Kira the Freedom (I wonder if Siegel had anything to do with that, because in the retelling of GS in manga form, it's SIEGEL that decides to give Freedom to Kira), but that was because she knew he wasn't going to take it to fight for one political purpose or another. As for the Mendel Colony, if she knew it was there, why not have her know right where it was as well? That place is a haunted house full of oodles and goodies. Lacus decided to pay a visit to that place, since, it's, well, abandoned, and it was a nice big genetic research facility (and what was Durandall before chairman? Oh yeah, a GENETICIST!).
Astray manga = reliable source? since the Junior stated out in his paragraph that Kira was sent to Lacus for plot development.
Also EAF and ZAFT wouldn't take care of the injured Kira. The EAF would prosecute him for being a coordinator and ZAFt likewise would have him killed. Orb was in the brink of invasion and I dont think the other sovereign nations are gonna handle Kira, heck those countries might hand him to the EAF/ZAFT.

In Lacus's defense, what did she not achieved? Didn't she preached of peace? And what happened? GSD happened. yeah. So much for that. She's hurt, everytime some war happens, she's in despair. And that episode where Meer died, Kira and Athrun were prepared for any sort of attacks hence that's why they made Kira's bird fly. Sure she has perfect trust in his friends but that doesn't make her invulnerable, hence the heavy preparations.
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Last edited by tritoch; 2006-06-03 at 20:46.
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:40   Link #55
SNT1
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astray is pretty consistent, it even explains technologies more in-depth than the show (DRAGOONs), and probably just as canon as the show.
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:51   Link #56
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joiner
Why don't you finish the story? When he began his invation of India, his army took heavy losses from the armies of the local kingdoms. Eventually, Alexander's entire army muntied, and he was forced to return to his empire without finishing the conquest. After returning, his best friend (and possible lover) died, sending Alexander himself into a depression and dying shortly after of an illness. Not to mention that he had alienated many of his own people by adopting persian dress, and that he had to execute several of his millitary governors for misbehavior.

Not to say that he wasn't a genius, and a fabulous leader, but not every thing worked out as he wanted, and he made some pretty big missteps. He assumed that his men were loyal to the death. Instead, they were loyal to a point.
Why don't you try to understand the story? Lacus never had as big an ambition as Alexander. Not only that, the most she ever directly commanded was the Eternal, the larger organization of Clyne Faction/Terminal is delegated to other people. And they didn't even directly participate in the battles. So the few people that were actually with her were more willing to be loyal to her than Alexander's thousands of men were to him and that makes Lacus a plot hole character?

P.S. Welcome to the forums.
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Old 2006-06-03, 20:57   Link #57
tritoch
 
 
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How come this is the only active debatable topic?
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Old 2006-06-03, 21:17   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
astray is pretty consistent, it even explains technologies more in-depth than the show (DRAGOONs), and probably just as canon as the show.
In fact, right now the Astrays are perhaps even more canon than the TV show.

At least the plots of the various Astray manga were sufficently complex and detailed, that they never needed to retcon anything.
(I am looking at you, Fukuda.)

Quote:
How come this is the only active debatable topic?
Because, as much as we enjoyed it in the past, we are getting sick about discussing Shinn VS Kira?^_^;
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Old 2006-06-03, 21:30   Link #59
M_Flores
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The following statements by me may have not much relevance to the actual arguement at hand, but I just feel like getting some stuff out of my mind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joiner
Er, Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster, I just wanted to through in my two cents.



Why don't you finish the story? When he began his invation of India, his army took heavy losses from the armies of the local kingdoms. Eventually, Alexander's entire army muntied, and he was forced to return to his empire without finishing the conquest. After returning, his best friend (and possible lover) died, sending Alexander himself into a depression and dying shortly after of an illness. Not to mention that he had alienated many of his own people by adopting persian dress, and that he had to execute several of his millitary governors for misbehavior.

Not to say that he wasn't a genius, and a fabulous leader, but not every thing worked out as he wanted, and he made some pretty big missteps. He assumed that his men were loyal to the death. Instead, they were loyal to a point.



Alright, let me try to explain why we like a character who is naive and idealistic, and makes mistakes because of it, more than a character who is naive and idealistic, and does everything right because of it.

Lets say, that in the next Gundam SEED Series, a new character is introduced. She is Kira's previously unknown second sister, is another ultimate coordiator, SEED factor positive, and a Newtype. She has her own Gundam, Majesty lets call it, that can defeat every other moble suit in the Cosmic Era, without damage. She's a better pilot than Kira, Athrun, Shinn, Mwu/Neo/whatever, and Lunamaria combined. Athrun, Shinn, and Mwu/Neo/whatever, by the way, fall completely in love with her at first sight and spend most of the series fighting over her. She leads her own private millitary force independant from the Clyne Faction, ZAFT, Orb, and the EA. Everyone in said faction is unbendingly loyal to her. She is a better singer than Lacus, wears a shorter skirt than Lunamaria, and is the heir to the Kingdom of Faroffshinyplace, a land where there is no conflict between Naturals and coordinators, and everyone lives in peace. Whenever Lacus is in the same scene as she is, she (Lacus) begins acting stuck up and concieted, and becomes oddly incompitant, allowing the new character to run rings around her. Eventually, the new character and her faction defeat, well, everyone since Lacus was planning to build a new GENESIS, and she brings eternal peace to the earth forevermore.

Sound like a character you could like?

Such characters are commonly called "Mary Sues" by the fanfiction community. A Mary Sue is a character who is given either no flaws or only simpathetic flaws (she cares about everyone too much). A Mary Sue is not allowed to fail or be hurt, even if she does something incredibly dangerous, because she's either skilled enough to get out of it, or has justified perfect trust in those who protect her. She can do everything, and usually does. Any one who the Mary Sue does not like, or who does not like the Mary Sue, ends up failing.

This is why many of us do not like Lacus. She never has hardship, except when convient for her(The death of her father put her in control of the Clyne faction, for example). If she does make a bad decision, it never hurts her, because either she or someone else fixes it before it does. She never truely suffers, and always remains a shining ideal. The story of SEED and Destiny revolves around her more than it does Kira, Athrun, and Shinn, at times. Take what happens after Strike is destroyed, for example. Why does Reverend Malchio send Kira to Lacus? There must have been somewhere closer and more convient for Kira to go to recouperate, not to mention more private. The answer is simple as long as you understand that Kira was sent there so that he could develop his relationship with Lacus, and so that she could be the one who gave him Freedom. Why did Shinn always turn crazy and psycotic when he fought the Clyne faction, when he was skilled enough to beat five Destroys at once when she wasn't around? Because Lacus, Kira, and the Clyne faction needed to triumph over a powerful, evil enemy. As I once aptly heard it put: "A character exists to serve the story. A Mary Sue exists to have the story serve them."
Totally agree. And thnx for reminding me of that fanfic term. I believe there's also one for male god characters too, but I can't remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
Why don't you try to understand the story? Lacus never had as big an ambition as Alexander. Not only that, the most she ever directly commanded was the Eternal, the larger organization of Clyne Faction/Terminal is delegated to other people. And they didn't even directly participate in the battles. So the few people that were actually with her were more willing to be loyal to her than Alexander's thousands of men were to him and that makes Lacus a plot hole character?

P.S. Welcome to the forums.
I dunno what you mean by plot hole character in the first place. But IMO, Lacus may be an important piece of the plot and all that (or not), but I'd say she is still boring to watch as a character compared to other characters that have (or...had) much to develop. I think she's just there more as fanservice than plot device. I don't understand why fans like her as a character when she has limited development - sure, she's cool and all having pink hair and giving away Gundams etc. etc., but I feel at times that there are parts of the story in which we dont really need to focus on her as much.

At least Kira and Athrun had issues in SEED, which they eventually overcame and tore down the house and were awesome characters. But in Destiny, whom Shinn was meant to be the protagonist, instead they butchered Athrun again making him sink into the helpless, confused guy for the first half of the series only so we can focus on him again, and then they brought back Kira, who had almost nothing to develop - we already know how powerful he is, we already know what he's all about and what he intends to do, etc. etc. nothing much changed.

As for Lacus - she seems to be the same as she was ever since we were first introduced to her in SEED. Pure, kind, sweet, sugar-coated and omnipotent. It was a little useful in SEED, but as an audience, I kinda got over it in Destiny. I wanted to see Shinn, being the sad, resentful kid that he was try to get over his past and mature and develop as a character, but things didn't quite go my way, lol.
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Old 2006-06-03, 21:34   Link #60
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joiner
Er, Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster, I just wanted to through in my two cents.



Why don't you finish the story? When he began his invation of India, his army took heavy losses from the armies of the local kingdoms. Eventually, Alexander's entire army muntied, and he was forced to return to his empire without finishing the conquest. After returning, his best friend (and possible lover) died, sending Alexander himself into a depression and dying shortly after of an illness. Not to mention that he had alienated many of his own people by adopting persian dress, and that he had to execute several of his millitary governors for misbehavior.

Not to say that he wasn't a genius, and a fabulous leader, but not every thing worked out as he wanted, and he made some pretty big missteps. He assumed that his men were loyal to the death. Instead, they were loyal to a point.



Alright, let me try to explain why we like a character who is naive and idealistic, and makes mistakes because of it, more than a character who is naive and idealistic, and does everything right because of it.

Lets say, that in the next Gundam SEED Series, a new character is introduced. She is Kira's previously unknown second sister, is another ultimate coordiator, SEED factor positive, and a Newtype. She has her own Gundam, Majesty lets call it, that can defeat every other moble suit in the Cosmic Era, without damage. She's a better pilot than Kira, Athrun, Shinn, Mwu/Neo/whatever, and Lunamaria combined. Athrun, Shinn, and Mwu/Neo/whatever, by the way, fall completely in love with her at first sight and spend most of the series fighting over her. She leads her own private millitary force independant from the Clyne Faction, ZAFT, Orb, and the EA. Everyone in said faction is unbendingly loyal to her. She is a better singer than Lacus, wears a shorter skirt than Lunamaria, and is the heir to the Kingdom of Faroffshinyplace, a land where there is no conflict between Naturals and coordinators, and everyone lives in peace. Whenever Lacus is in the same scene as she is, she (Lacus) begins acting stuck up and concieted, and becomes oddly incompitant, allowing the new character to run rings around her. Eventually, the new character and her faction defeat, well, everyone since Lacus was planning to build a new GENESIS, and she brings eternal peace to the earth forevermore.

Sound like a character you could like?

Such characters are commonly called "Mary Sues" by the fanfiction community. A Mary Sue is a character who is given either no flaws or only simpathetic flaws (she cares about everyone too much). A Mary Sue is not allowed to fail or be hurt, even if she does something incredibly dangerous, because she's either skilled enough to get out of it, or has justified perfect trust in those who protect her. She can do everything, and usually does. Any one who the Mary Sue does not like, or who does not like the Mary Sue, ends up failing.

This is why many of us do not like Lacus. She never has hardship, except when convient for her(The death of her father put her in control of the Clyne faction, for example). If she does make a bad decision, it never hurts her, because either she or someone else fixes it before it does. She never truely suffers, and always remains a shining ideal. The story of SEED and Destiny revolves around her more than it does Kira, Athrun, and Shinn, at times. Take what happens after Strike is destroyed, for example. Why does Reverend Malchio send Kira to Lacus? There must have been somewhere closer and more convient for Kira to go to recouperate, not to mention more private. The answer is simple as long as you understand that Kira was sent there so that he could develop his relationship with Lacus, and so that she could be the one who gave him Freedom. Why did Shinn always turn crazy and psycotic when he fought the Clyne faction, when he was skilled enough to beat five Destroys at once when she wasn't around? Because Lacus, Kira, and the Clyne faction needed to triumph over a powerful, evil enemy. As I once aptly heard it put: "A character exists to serve the story. A Mary Sue exists to have the story serve them."
Thank You...I was just about to respond when I read this wonderful post that explains what I had been trying to get 4tran to properly address for the longest but I guess I'd never be able to express it in the way you did...

Quote:
A Mary Sue exists to have the story serve them.
Hence if you believe in the plausibility of this "Mary Sue" and defend it you must provide evidence if you are to compare her to realistic societal leaders whom you so effortlessly relate her too...Plus rep for you....If you're a lurker than you know I'd rarely ever say this, but that was better than I could have done....I probably would have overanalysed it a bit more, while you wrote it in a easily digestable way inwhich I honestly learned something...Good first post...
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