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Old 2006-06-09, 17:35   Link #1
kaito-kid
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Kira's father?

Just wondering...could this guy be Kira's father?

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Old 2006-06-09, 17:44   Link #2
Obi-Wan
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Those are his adoptive parents. His real father is Dr. Ulen Hibiki. It's all explained in episode 45 of the anime.
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Old 2006-06-09, 18:27   Link #3
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Yep...his real parents were those 2 doctors. The father being the one who wanted to create "the ultimate Coordinator" and his mother being the woman who kept trying to get him to stop.
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Old 2006-06-09, 18:41   Link #4
kaito-kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Those are his adoptive parents. His real father is Dr. Ulen Hibiki. It's all explained in episode 45 of the anime.
WOOT!!! I need to watch that episode^^ 'm a big fan of his ultimate creation
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Old 2006-06-10, 02:19   Link #5
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But aren't him an Cagali brother and sister? Can someone explain? This is one thing I never got.
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Old 2006-06-10, 02:31   Link #6
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Yes. Kira was...um..."nurtured" in the artificial womb while Cagalli was the twin who got the normal pregnancy of their mother. The only explanation I could have for this is that Dr. Ulen Hibiki got his specimens before Cagalli was...um...created. Or maybe, he could have used the test tube or some other method to get the finished product, then had one develop in the artificial womb and one develop normally in their mother's womb. Since they're not identical twins, fraternal twins are created from separate egg cells fertilized from separate sperm cells...I imagine it would be a lot harder if they actually turned out to be identical...>.< so the test tube/some other method could be the best explanation of how Kira and Cagalli came to be.

But, Viki Hibiki (I think that was their mother's name) was crying over what Ulen Hibiki did to their son during that Mendel flashback (she was still not visibly pregnant at that time)...and Ulen was going on that he had used several failed specimens before he got Kira correctly...another LOOPHOLE?
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Old 2006-06-10, 03:27   Link #7
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Kira's dad nurtured the fetus in an artificial incubation chamber where it could recieve 100% positive conditions(Something a womb could not)...Cagali remained in his wife and was born naturally...He probably sprinkled a little Al Da Flaga season salt in the chamber and "walaaa"....The Ultimate Kicka$$inator...
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Old 2006-06-10, 03:42   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
He probably sprinkled a little Al Da Flaga season salt in the chamber and "walaaa".
You should make a thread for this because I really doubt that happened at all.

FYI the mother's name was Via Hibiki for whoever brought that up.
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Old 2006-06-10, 04:00   Link #9
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There is suffient evidence to suggest this...and furthermore it makes sense...

While I wouldn't stand in front of a moving bullet-train to defend everything on wiki it is also suggested in their conclusion...

However, the process was not completely successful and several clones were created after the instability of Al Da Flaga, Jr.(who would later become known as Rau Le Creuset) became apparent: including Rey Za Burrel and Prayer Reverie. These Newtype cloning experiments were the precursor to Dr. Hibiki's Ultimate Coordinator project which created Kira Yamato in more ways than one, as Hibiki not only used the funding he received from Al Da Flaga, Sr. in creating Kira, but possibly, Al Da Flaga's Newtype DNA itself (Kira experiences Newtype flashes in Gundam SEED Destiny).

Al Da Flaga gave Hibiki money to make him clones...Hibiki took the money and started his Ult. Coord. project under Al's nose...Creating Rau Le Creset was a precursor for him starting the "Kira" project...Why is it so hard for one to think he used sucesses in that project when it came to his other project?? (Don't forget Rau was a successful project...it was their attempt at speeding up his age to match Mwu that ultimatley ruined him genetically speaking) Maybe he saw something in Al Da Flaga's clone that helped it mature in the chamber without complications...The guy is a genetic scientist I'm sure he saw something in the Al's DNA that could help...The Bottomline is Kira has the NT flash or feeling only when in the presence of Al Da Flaga's genetic children...What I am suggesting is nothing far-fetched in the least...and the name of this thread is Kira's father where the poster asked if what he showed was a pic of Kira's dad...After he was corrected it branched off into Cagali, now it's back to Hibiki who without a doubt used Al Da Flaga's DNA in various experiments...I'm just putting 2 and 2 together...Unless I hear an explanation better than my own I'll stick with it...
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Old 2006-06-10, 18:51   Link #10
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From how it seemed, people like Rau, Rey and Prayer Reverie (I think that was the Dreadnought pilot and, if I remember right, another clone?) were, at least from the way Rey and other sources said it "prototypes" for Kira?

I dunno. Just something I read in different places. No hard proof. u_u;;
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Old 2006-06-11, 01:51   Link #11
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Yep.

Rau was the precursor to the "perfected" experiment: Kira Yamato.

Rau was bawling like a kid over that in GS.

Quote:
Don't forget Rau was a successful project...it was their attempt at speeding up his age to match Mwu that ultimatley ruined him genetically speaking
So if Rau didn't have the speeding age, he'd end up around Rey's age.

Off topic but it might spurt out in people's thoughts:

So why is Rey generally seen weaker than Rau? Age difference. Rey's skills hasn't fully developed.
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Old 2006-06-11, 02:25   Link #12
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In Rey's case I think it has more to do with upbringing and motivation.

Rau was taught that he was superior and was pushed to be better than all others, Rey on the other hand, from what we were shown in the series, didn't seem to be raised in this fashion. Rau apparently, from what I can gather of the flashbacks, was raising him to be more of an intellectual (plaing the piano, playing at a genetics lab, etc). Perhaps, Rau was trying to develope his mind knowing that, like himself, Rey would easily be superior to most with little effort.

Just spectulation...
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Old 2006-06-11, 02:33   Link #13
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Hibiki was already working on the Ultimate Coordinator project before Flaga even come into the picture. Rau was not Kira Project v1.0b. Hibiki is also seen working on it with many people, so his project wasn't a secret and it's extremely likely that it was a collaborative effort with Hibiki being the main doctor in charge of it.

Flaga simply thinks his son is a pussy and wants a clone of himself. Hibiki even says he doesn't want to do it at first. I remember the dialog word for word, and it goes like this...

Hibiki: I won't do it, cloning is illegal!
Flaga: Laws are just things written by men.
Flaga: Besides, you need more money [for your project], don't you?

The fact that Flaga also knows about the Coordinator Project is probably indactive of the fact that it's public knowledge or at least common in medical circles enough for Flaga to acknowledge Hibiki is the go-to guy for genetic technologies. Besides, what's to say Hibiki even knows Flaga is a Newtype? His actions suggest he did the cloning and washed his hands of the matter as quick as he could. His actions suggest he has a conscience, and as much as he cares about succeeding I doubt he would use illegal means which he already expressed he didn't agree with (he was just desperate for money).

Rau also says there were mainly failed Kira projects before the successful one. If Hibiki had a loophole or a means of ensuring a higher success rate from the get go I think he would have done it. But no, he probably spent a fortune on failed experiments until he finally came up with the winning combination.

Don't forget that the one and only Newtype flash Kira has happens in space in episode 39... Mu or Rey are nowhere to be seen. Kira can sense Rau's presence in the last episode of Seed, but I think that is purely coincidental and it also explains why he thinks Rey is Rau at the end of GSD. Same thing when he senses Mu on the boat. He never has a Newtype reaction to any of them, he just stops and turns his head.

Also Rau was not a perfect clone. He even says he is a defect. I am not going to argue with the show's dialog, but you may feel free to do so.

Also wiki is full of shit, I could go on there right now and post that Kira evolved from mutant primates if I wanted to. There is a lot of BS in their Seed info. I'm not going to use it as a reference since I already have the show's dialog to back me up.
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Old 2006-06-11, 03:12   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
(Don't forget Rau was a successful project...it was their attempt at speeding up his age to match Mwu that ultimatley ruined him genetically speaking)
Both Rau and Rey had the same problem as RL clones: short telomeres.
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Old 2006-06-11, 05:14   Link #15
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on topic:

where is kira's adoptive fahter in GSD?


off topic:

If Rey was produced at the same time then rau shouldn't he at least be at the same age as kira?

and if he was produced later ... why produce another clone when al da flaga is already death? and how? .. after what happen to mendal, I think It would be hard to build another labor which has the capacity for cloning.
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Old 2006-06-11, 05:50   Link #16
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I read somewhere Fukuda said Kira's father was working far away. (Which is rather common in anime fathers.)

I don't remember anything about Rau being artificially aged. (He shows premature aging because of his short telomeres, but that's another problem.)

So, as far as I can see, the timeline is more or less:
- Hibiki starts his Ultimate Coordinator project. More or less at the same time Al decides he hates his wife and her (their?) son.
- Al gives Hibiki funding in exchange for clones. Rau is born.
- Several years later, Hibiki at last gets a viable Ultimate Coordinator: Kira.
- Two (if Rey and Shinn are the same age) years later, Rey is born. Rau is still a kid.
- Rau kills his dad.
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Old 2006-06-11, 10:36   Link #17
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Al de Flaga is just missing. Or did he die in that fire?

Rey and Rau are the same (they were created at the same time). They waited a little longer before deciding to "unleash" Rey. that was why Rey was also taking the same pills as Rau used; he told Shinn in an indirect way that he was Rau and that he also shared Rau's sickness, or whatever that was.
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Old 2006-06-11, 11:33   Link #18
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I took it to mean the embryos were created at the same time. Rau definitely looks like he was born years earlier.
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Old 2006-06-11, 19:34   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
- Several years later, Hibiki at last gets a viable Ultimate Coordinator: Kira.
- Two (if Rey and Shinn are the same age) years later, Rey is born. Rau is still a kid.
- Rau kills his dad.
hasn't mendal been destroyed right after kira's and cagalli's birth? ... so rey can't be created after kira.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper
Rey and Rau are the same (they were created at the same time). They waited a little longer before deciding to "unleash" Rey. that was why Rey was also taking the same pills as Rau used; he told Shinn in an indirect way that he was Rau and that he also shared Rau's sickness, or whatever that was.
that would explain my question, but that would mean rey (as an embro) got away before mendal was destroyed. but then again ... you need a labor and artificial womb to rise him.
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Old 2006-06-11, 19:35   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Hibiki was already working on the Ultimate Coordinator project before Flaga even come into the picture. Rau was not Kira Project v1.0b. Hibiki is also seen working on it with many people, so his project wasn't a secret and it's extremely likely that it was a collaborative effort with Hibiki being the main doctor in charge of it.
His project obviously wasn't a secret to the guys working with him, but once it became a cloning project I doubt he was trying to get his face on the cover of "Cloning Weekly" Magazine...Rau was created first and him being created was quite simply the precursor because he came first and perhaps gave Hibiki some answers for incubating a fetus for a different purpose...The money Da Flaga was lacing him with gave him the oppurtunity to make more mistakes, hence all the failed projects and incomplete children in incubation...


Quote:
Flaga simply thinks his son is a pussy and wants a clone of himself. Hibiki even says he doesn't want to do it at first. I remember the dialog word for word, and it goes like this...

Hibiki: I won't do it, cloning is illegal!
Flaga: Laws are just things written by men.
Flaga: Besides, you need more money [for your project], don't you?
OK, I'm waiting for the point...I don't see what is trying to be proved here? I think this pretty much goes without saying...

Quote:
The fact that Flaga also knows about the Coordinator Project is probably indactive of the fact that it's public knowledge or at least common in medical circles enough for Flaga to acknowledge Hibiki is the go-to guy for genetic technologies. Besides, what's to say Hibiki even knows Flaga is a Newtype? His actions suggest he did the cloning and washed his hands of the matter as quick as he could. His actions suggest he has a conscience, and as much as he cares about succeeding I doubt he would use illegal means which he already expressed he didn't agree with (he was just desperate for money).
This is before he examines Al Da Flaga's DNA for starters (And seemingly no one knows what a Newtype is but being a genetic scientist Hibiki may have known that the samples had properties, normal samples did not)...Secondly, obviously his Ult. Coordinator project wasn't working because prior to meeting Al Da Flaga he wasn't yeilding any results...If he was why the hell even risk having his entirety of projects destroyed by accepting Flaga's money in the first place to do an illegal act?? He needed the money to aid him in project advancements...In nurturing Rau from his incubator perhaps he saw successful methods that he could use in his other project...A project that doesn't succeed until after Rau is born?? I mean how many more context clues do you need here?? You telling me that point has more cashe?? Where it was all just a big coincidence??

Quote:
Rau also says there were mainly failed Kira projects before the successful one. If Hibiki had a loophole or a means of ensuring a higher success rate from the get go I think he would have done it. But no, he probably spent a fortune on failed experiments until he finally came up with the winning combination.
I wonder how many failed projects he had before he got the money from Al Da Flaga and how many prior to that ?? hmmm...

Quote:
Don't forget that the one and only Newtype flash Kira has happens in space in episode 39... Mu or Rey are nowhere to be seen. Kira can sense Rau's presence in the last episode of Seed, but I think that is purely coincidental and it also explains why he thinks Rey is Rau at the end of GSD. Same thing when he senses Mu on the boat. He never has a Newtype reaction to any of them, he just stops and turns his head.
Newtype reactions aren't just flashes my friend it's the ability to sense others of the same kind...Kira has seemingly not been shown to be able to sense Athrun, Shinn, Cagali, Mia, Milly, Murrue, Talia, Andrew, Arthur, Djbril, Dullindal, Luna, Meyrin, Auel, Sting, Steller, Dearka, Yzak, Heine, Shiho, Kisaka, Malchio, Lowe Gear, Todaka, Ba-Ba, Random grunt #23451, Pink-Haro, or even Torii (Well maybe Torii^^), yet on "coincidence" he can sense every single Al Da Flaga genetic child; ALL OF THEM... hopefully you wouldn't stand infront of a firing-squad with this same conviction...

As for sensing Rau one can assume (since he doesn't get NT-flashes in SEED) that his NT skills are still developing..If you've seen any G-series with Newtypes, you'd know that many Newtypes develop their powers thru battle and practice (and simply time)...they don't all start off as strong Newtypes...With lack of a definitive explanation for anything Newtype-ish in the SEED universe, Kira's sudden jump from not having NT skills to now having them would logically have to be considered under this explanation...Seems to be a better explanation than pure coincidence (which is once again your battle-cry)...

Quote:
Also Rau was not a perfect clone. He even says he is a defect. I am not going to argue with the show's dialog, but you may feel free to do so.
Rau thought he was defective for simply being a clone...I know that Al Da Flaga wanted Rau's age sped up to match Mwu's age...Genetically speaking this is what started his defectiveness because they couldn't stop it...This has nothing to do with Rau (Al Da Flaga Jr. at the time) realizing he was a clone and having a mental breakdown that had him burn down the Flaga mansion, wear a mask to hide the face of the man he hated more than anything and begin upon his quest of making humanity pay...as for Rey I have seen nothing to suggest Rey was as perfect a clone as Rau despite being the same genetic material...I also think Mr. Paper brings up some valuable points about Rey's development in-addition..

Quote:
Also wiki is full of shit, I could go on there right now and post that Kira evolved from mutant primates if I wanted to. There is a lot of BS in their Seed info. I'm not going to use it as a reference since I already have the show's dialog to back me up.
Listen you can call wiki whatever you want and in some cases there are arguable inconsistencies, but they have a helluva lot more information than you or me...Type in the name of any SEED character, war, mobile suit, or vessel and you will find a detailed write up on them (some that are completley accurate)...You don't have the credentials to totally diss wiki in 100% absoluteness (Neither do I when I have read countless SEED entries by them that were accurate)...In this little blurb concearning Al Da Flaga's DNA they're doing what I was doing and that's simple mathematics, 2 +2...So forgive me if I find that argument quite the cop-out...
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