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Old 2006-06-14, 00:43   Link #61
Nameless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srb
Greetings, dear victim of propaganda!

The US administrations meddling in the affairs of other countries without accepting any consequences or finishing the job they decided to start in the second half of the 20th century led to 9/11. What, you think Usama bin Laden just woke up one day and decided to hate America?
"Recklessly"? You used them to force a surrender out of Japan by destroying their morale through the means of killing civilians. You torched Tokyo with fire bombs, killing hundreds of thousands in just that raid. American bombers partook in the bombings of civilian targets in Germany. The USA has sponsored several overthrows of democratically elected governments and has backed dictators all around the world, and continue to do so today, as long as it serves its purposes.
Yeah, very valiant defenders of freedom the US is. Wake up and smell the roses American, your country is as shitty as anyone elses... Actually, it's more shitty, due to some of the reasons I have listed.
And I don't even hate America! Just think of how the people who actually DO hate America thinks regarding these subjects.
I'm a US citizen, and I agree with roughly 90% of what you said. The 10% I don't agree with is the bit about Japan.

Propaganda aside, Japan claimed Neutrality and then bombed Pearl Harbor. US warned Japan about them using a very dangerous bomb on them if they didn't surrender, and that the casualties would be phenomenal, but Japan laughed at us because there weren't bombs of that power at that time.

I love Japan, anime, Japanese culture. Today I believe Japan is a better country than America. It's cleaner, safer, less crime even though cops don't have guns, the women are amazingly beautiful, but I believe the WW2 affair had no blame. War is an ugly affair, but Japan wasn't "innocent". Innocent people died at Pearl Harbor too.

I do agree bombing citizen populated parts of Germany at that time might've been means not justified to the end and I also agree the 9/11 incident is propaganda. I don't even think Osama Bin Laden was involved to be perfectly honest. But this shouldn't be a discussion of politics.
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Old 2006-06-14, 00:47   Link #62
SNT1
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Anti-Americanism... so strong... (southern stereotype. wtf) get your conspiracy theories away from this thread, we were supposed to be talking about how JP's will make operation V or whatever. O well, what am I saying, this thread is doomed to hell anyway.

hey guyz, why dont you criticize america for enslaving africans and doing the boston tea party while you're at it.
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Old 2006-06-14, 01:25   Link #63
Lt. Cmdr. Mu LaFlaga
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hmmmm.

Being new to this forum I wont argue much to this point mainly because I am a International Politics student with a History minor. Many in the world really do need to wake up. The terror war is very real. OBL hates america because it has bases in other countries (mainly, arabic countries.) We dont FORCE their nations to have bases ie. the Saudis, UK, Krygyzstan, Cuba(guantamino was part of a treaty was not forced), among other countries. This doesn't include the WWII losing countries of Germany and Japan. This is the reasoning behind OBL hatred for all things american. On to Iran it has hatred toward us for backing the Sha(aka king of Iran to political dummies). At that time it was far better to have him in power then have it be a Soviet puppet country. Even though the Cold War was just a war between puppets and the USSR and the puppets of hte USA thats the only reason we supported tyrants because communism was slowly creaping around the world . Also Nameless you need to get your facts straight buddy.

First off, OBL admitted in attacking the US on 9/11 with his hijackers. PERIOD!

Second, prapaganda you wanna hear prapaganda go to Iran you soon know the true face of prapaganda. Im not the #1 Bush Fan I'm in fact a moderate republican, but 9/11 was a terrible incident and taking out the anarchy in afganistan and also Al'Qaeda was nessary to eliminate anymore IMMEDIATE threats to the US. Iraq now I think was the wrong move instead we should have marched and gained support to eliminate the crazy Iranian government now setting its sights on nukes. Now if your thinking "nah your just reading into prapaganda," then why would Iran threaten to use 40K suicide bombers for those countries who supported the USA actions in the Security council(those actions may i remind you were only to sanction Iran.) HELLO!! WAKE UP WORLD!!! THEY CAN'T HAVE NUCLEAR TECH!!!!

Anyways to the WWII Japan issue. Wow, I can't believe that people think we (Americans) just love killing. God you people are ignorant. Your fighting a war your not going ot say, "bad japan and then go about your business." (In fact we did by blocking their use of our raw materials for taking many more islands in the pacific against our wishes). War isnt pretty ladies and gents. It's nasty and to acheive a win is to acheive it with low casualties and by any means at your disposal. The Atom Bomb was at our disposal and we used it. We warned them and we used it. And may I remind those who don't remember that we gave Japan a second option to surrender before we bombed Nagasaki. They ignored our offer thus the quickest way possible to end the war was to bomb another city. They bombed us first killed not only military officers but also civilians. We also did the same, though we sunk to their level we got the job done and that was to win. If they had surrendered because both of their allies(Germany and Italy for History dummies) were gone it would have been much less painful for them and their civilians. But they once again were so stuck up and thinking we werent going to do it we dont have the balls to do it again and once again they were wrong. Finally after taking out 2 major Japanese Cities they unconditionally surrendered. I know that honor has a lot to do with them holding out hope but come on 750,000 dead civilians later then they come around and surrender thats really not smart in my own judgement.

Finally to the Japanese Space Forces. Actually I think that would be kind of neat actually. Im a big fan of sci-fi and space exploration. I think this might ignite a new little space race between the Russians, Americans, and the Japanese. It's a long way off but perhaps by 2100 we could see some sort of Salamis Class ship in space who knows.....lol.....
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Old 2006-06-14, 01:59   Link #64
ScytheBlade
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Wow, without the US no one would give a **** about terrorism. People take too many things for granted in this world. I don't see any country pursuing terrorism as zealously as the US. We can't just let terrorism go deeper and deeper in its roots. Have you heard of the recent execution attempt on the Canadian Prime Minister? Canada has almost nothing to do with the "war on terrorism" and yet there are still terrorist attacks in there.

If there were no US protecting us, then (as in Counter-Strike):

Terrorists win.
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Old 2006-06-14, 02:44   Link #65
ekirts
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Quote:
Finally to the Japanese Space Forces. Actually I think that would be kind of neat actually. Im a big fan of sci-fi and space exploration. I think this might ignite a new little space race between the Russians, Americans, and the Japanese. It's a long way off but perhaps by 2100 we could see some sort of Salamis Class ship in space who knows.....lol.....
too bad you'll be dead by then unless somehow they freeze you without killing you or something and defrost/reviving you at that time
if they do have a war then and i'm alive i think i'll be like F***
humans must really like war or killing or something we're gonna be extinct if we keep doin this and kill civilians which will probably be very hard unless earth becomes like a planet you cant live on and every single person on earth dies

anyway
histoy and stuff must be full of lies and bull$#!T because us won so they could have told a different story & so US isnt always right (just realised that us havent really won any war that they started or a war in other country that they went in to do something) seems like us isnt really like the stongest country
china would be scary tho (try guess why...)

mini nuke suicide bombers would be scary i just hope they dont make mini muke bombs too and hope they dont start a ww4 or start using nukes like crazy in this war

at least this country would probably be safe for a while :P
i saw a map on tv/news or something and THIS country wasnt on it or was cut out rofl
and the army/navy/airforce here is.....just..............
even had a power cut the day before............ this country must be so vunerable
my friends say the SAS here are good tho

anyways i bet there are tons of ppl that dont like the current us president
seems us made ity worse in some ways by pursuing terrorism to me
and they may be protecting but they are also probably leeching :P

1 thing i thought what would the world be like if the axis did win..
maybe japanese german and italian could have been the main languages lol
and if you dont like japan (if there is any here) you shouldnt be here

i wonder how many here are american bet there's a lot.......
i bet there arent much japanese....
Quote:
Ekirts more like the Command and Conquer Global Defense Initiative.
umm.............okay and that is.....? what?

real gundams will be cool lol japan's secret weapon or something? imaging freedom lol then enemy tries to destroy it then destrys it but it becomes liek a nuke bom....<- that i dont want it to happen would want to pilot it but dont wanna go fight a war in it

Last edited by ekirts; 2006-06-14 at 03:18.
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Old 2006-06-14, 02:58   Link #66
flamingtroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheBlade
Wow, without the US no one would give a **** about terrorism. People take too many things for granted in this world. I don't see any country pursuing terrorism as zealously as the US. We can't just let terrorism go deeper and deeper in its roots. Have you heard of the recent execution attempt on the Canadian Prime Minister? Canada has almost nothing to do with the "war on terrorism" and yet there are still terrorist attacks in there.

If there were no US protecting us, then (as in Counter-Strike):

Terrorists win.
Funny how OBL was quite a good friend of the US back in the Mujahadeen days. Talk about irony.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:08   Link #67
Aidan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingtroll
Funny how OBL was quite a good friend of the US back in the Mujahadeen days. Talk about irony.
Lots of money to be made on this so called war on terror, weapon contracts, arms sales and oil to a certain extend.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:15   Link #68
Rich
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who can estimate how much for just a "Dagger" or a "Ginn" would cost in real life...? is it 1/12 of Bill Gate's fortune or more......? (i'm bad at these kinda estimates).
yeah even if there was gundams, it would be in the next few centuries when we can develop something stronger...^^ like laser beams, etc.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:27   Link #69
Aidan
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You know what I'd like to see. Some remotely operated space robots. They could be used for the maintenance and repair of satellites, so there's lots of money to be made. And we all know that good things can come from military research (internet, GPS). The Japanese Military should put some money into robots for space. There must be some influential people in the Japanese Military that are super robot fans.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:35   Link #70
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a03
who can estimate how much for just a "Dagger" or a "Ginn" would cost in real life...? is it 1/12 of Bill Gate's fortune or more......? (i'm bad at these kinda estimates).
yeah even if there was gundams, it would be in the next few centuries when we can develop something stronger...^^ like laser beams, etc.
Actually, Bandai has already done the estimation of a mobilesuit's total production cost per massproduction model.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...7&postcount=49

My friend went to the source from Bandai, and the result?

The most basic of all mobile suits, that of the UC ZAKU II mass production model, costs 300 times as much as a UC civilian automobile per unit.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...ews030430_ave/
According to this article, the average car costs $28 000 US dollars today.

Thus, scaling for future inflation, a Zaku is worth approximately $8 400 000 US dollars, or more than eight million dollars.

That's actually quite cheap; the standard US M1 Abrahms Battle Tank is worth $4.3 million each.

Assuming there is at least a three to one advantage to use an MS against tanks, it would be more economical to build mobilesuits.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:37   Link #71
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lol thats really cheap, an F-22 costs $99 million, A B-2 = $2 billion, hmmm yea I think
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:42   Link #72
Lt. Cmdr. Mu LaFlaga
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Actually That is not to bad considering the average US M1/A1 Abrams Battletank costs like 12 million on the radar and a Cruisemissile costs about 4 million a missile. Thats pretty neat that a mobile suit most likely would only cost about as much as 1 Abram lol......all we need now is the technical manual, blueprints, and technology to actually catch up lollolollo and we got ourselves a modern day gundam anime in real life wow kinda scary to think that......
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:45   Link #73
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But going by logic, an upright standing unit will only expose itself to the enemies line of attack, it will never be really feasible in real battles.

Unless we can produce mechs that are really agile, dodging attacks like nothing, leaping and falling from 10 stories without damaging any hardware etc.
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Old 2006-06-14, 04:51   Link #74
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Originally Posted by Lt. Cmdr. Mu LaFlaga
Actually That is not to bad considering the average US M1/A1 Abrams Battletank costs like 12 million on the radar and a Cruisemissile costs about 4 million a missile. Thats pretty neat that a mobile suit most likely would only cost about as much as 1 Abram lol......all we need now is the technical manual, blueprints, and technology to actually catch up lollolollo and we got ourselves a modern day gundam anime in real life wow kinda scary to think that......
The issue, of course, is development costs.

When the very first tanks were released into battle in WW1, only half of them functioned. It took many years before something as fundamentally simplistic as an armoured mobile torret became a truly functional piece of military hardware.

Unless something dramatic occurs, there won't be justification spending money developing mobilesuits... The war you are designing it for would be over before the first prototype gets on its feet.

Also, keep in mind the 8.4 million is in terms of UC era costs. It's a future weapon.

A cruise missile, as you said, costs 4 million dollars today. But what if people in WW2 tried to build one? The cost will be far higher, due to lack of high-tech infrastructure. In the same vein, we don't have the kind of futuristic factories UC engineers possess, as such the 8.4 million ZAKU II would cost far more with our comparatively primitive computers/machining equipment.

#########
The reason why I scaled the ZAKU II costs to the modern day, was to show that it didn't cost that much to build one by UC standards. It's actually affordable for the UC armies to field dozens of them at a time.

To build one of our own MS, with 2006 equipment, is something else entirely.
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