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Old 2006-06-14, 22:07   Link #61
Rever129
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With 43 beam guns that can shoots in virtually all directions, did Providence even need a beam rifle? Same goes for Legend. It can even shoot its Dragoons while they're still docked. When you consider that, Legend's need of a beam rifle is even less so than Providence.

Last edited by Rever129; 2006-06-15 at 16:58.
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Old 2006-06-14, 22:14   Link #62
vanguardian1
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Sorry sorry, I should've added one line to that as well.

That line would be :

"You can't compare the performances of Legend and Providence in GS/GSD because of the significant differences in the abilities of the pilots."

If we just argue stats however, things change. In the case of raw firepower Proivence would win easily in ONLY space scenarios, but as Providence never displayed any flexible turrent ability that Legend used (even during it's debut fight), I would state that Providence lacks any notable significant usefulness outside of that domain. Improved offensive/defensive equipment variety, speed, agility, and other useful advantages (Computer Assisted Dragoons) make Legend the better suit in every other way.

And yes, Providence's left shield had *2* beam rifles and a giant beam sword integrated into it.

Rever129 - I'm sure that Legend's flippable dragoons still lack the flexability and accuracy of a hand-held beam rifle.
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Old 2006-06-14, 22:44   Link #63
DarkWarrior
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Uh Providence's smaller DRAGOONs could swivel foward too while docked, just like Legend's. Look at the model kits.
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Old 2006-06-14, 22:46   Link #64
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providence only has 2 that can swivel though, Legend has all 6 that can swivel in the same way, plus the entire backpack can swivel forward to fire the Beam spikes while docked.
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Old 2006-06-14, 22:49   Link #65
DarkWarrior
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No, the hip DRAGOONs can swivel too. Two on each hip for a total of six DRAGOONs, like Legend's.

Stolen from Dalong.net:
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Old 2006-06-14, 23:09   Link #66
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I have the model, the reason why the hip armour can swivel like this is just like most other models with hip armour that's joint the same way. A rod/hole joint.

Its not designed originally to swivel this way.
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Old 2006-06-15, 00:30   Link #67
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Not to mention, Raww would rather send everyone looking at where are the DRAGOONs. It'll hit you when you never expect it.

And the beam rifle is there for a reason. Remember how Raww destroyed the escape shuttle (and killing Flay RIGHT IN FRONT of Kira's eyes)?
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Old 2006-06-15, 04:29   Link #68
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The beam rifle is there for a very easy to understand reason - so that Providence itself can engage the target while the DRAGOONs are undocked. Come up into the target's blind spot or catching their attention itself while DRAGOONs do it.
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Old 2006-06-15, 07:50   Link #69
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To me, it isn't very easy to understand why the rifle has to be large, bulky and long in size when its power and accuracy isn't that much significant compared to other rifles.

v_v... is there really something I'm missing here?
Legend could hold Destiny's rifle and still have the same strategy cant it?
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Old 2006-06-15, 09:11   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Flores
To me, it isn't very easy to understand why the rifle has to be large, bulky and long in size when its power and accuracy isn't that much significant compared to other rifles.
Design decision. However, how can you know that the power and accuracy isn't significantly improved? You can't, as there aren't any numbers to support it.

Quote:
Legend could hold Destiny's rifle and still have the same strategy cant it?
Yes, both Legend and Providence could have used ordinary beam rifles and use that strategy. However, I guess it was a design decision to give it a bit more uniqueness - everyone has short "beam carbines" more or less.
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Old 2006-06-15, 09:15   Link #71
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Maybe the heavy rifle is meant to be used against ships, while against other MSes they're supposed to rely on Dragoons?
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Old 2006-06-15, 20:04   Link #72
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Well there's no real evidence or stats that justifies the huge rifle of being more or less powerful or versatile - from the footage so far, it does not seem to feature anything significantly different from standard beam rifles.

But I'd say, such a long barrel would be an easier target, say, it would be easier for Justice to get close enough to slice the rifle in two.

Also as I said, if the Justice grapple stinger doesnt appear needed, why not just give it to Legend and increase its variety of armaments? (I don't mean give it as in plot-wise, lol... as if Athrun would give Rey a new weapon)
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Old 2006-06-16, 00:29   Link #73
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Actually Providence's beam rifle is mounted on a shoulder (like the FAZZ), since it's handle is in front, as opposed to that of traditional beam rifles.
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Old 2006-06-16, 06:52   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
One reason Legend totally failed is because they made it a predecessor to the Last Boss. If it didn't look like Providence at all, it would still be quite a cool suit.

Rey somehow becomes crap at the end of GSD, he was pretty good at first, giving Neo some troubles. And what happened? Mwu gets Akatsuki and becomes invincible lol
Because GOLD ARMOUR = POWER. Look at Gilgamesh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
hackatsuki is the greatest Gundam of alltime for it's size, as one member said it runs on God's pi$$ XD...and it's even the same color...and the OS is so easy even cookie monster could pilot it...I still think Mwu operates it with a Superfamicon controller...
I have to say, I rofled at this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon
Strike Freedom had the upper hand at times...? All I saw the entire fight was:

1. Kira starting to punk out Shinn, Rey breaks off from Athrun and comes up.

2. Beam slashing, Rey reveals he's Rau's clone, SF dodging Legend's beams.

3. Kira picking off DRAGOONS left and right, then some more beam locking.

4. "You are yourself...not Rau."

5. GGPO RAINBOW GUNS V2.

Did they change something in Final Plus? I didn't actually watch that one. But the fight in the original ep. 50 was pretty one-sided...I mean, he didn't even take out any of Kira's DRAGOONS, let alone damage him in any way.
5. was the best line EVER. GO GO POWER RANGERS.

These are the lines that I believe sum up this thread, feel free to nominate your own :P
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Old 2006-06-16, 07:01   Link #75
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Originally Posted by MooMooFarm
I have to say, I rofled at this.
I laughed at that too lol

It reminded me of an SRW@3 4-koma where Minaki asks Touma whether he has a drivers license(following the game dialogue) and Touma finds out that Raioh is piloted with a steering wheel.
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Old 2006-06-16, 11:56   Link #76
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I have to say though, at least to me, Saviour/Justice/I-Justice lack originality or uniqueness. I just don't see anything that big of a change between them. Heck even Aegis could fit in there if it wasn't for the fact that it turns into Crab-Claw mode and like, well yeah. Minor details don't really matter, since that could be said about Legend/Providence comparison, but seriously, S/J/I-J have nothing that stands out. They are just suits that are supposedly good, painted redish, and are piloted by Athrun. Seriously, no wonder he's unstable in GSD. I mean, Saviour comes AFTER impulse, yet impulse is waaaayyy cooler.

Put it this way, do you want to be Starscream with your "HEY LOOK MA I CAN FLY" or do you want to be the whole damn show "OPTIMUS PRIME, 5-MOTHER TRUCKER LINK MODE WHATEVER MA BOBER" with extra damn parts? If you time it, Shinn's impulse transformer time takes up like what? 1/10th of the episode every time? That's as long as the damn opening or ending. That's spotlight right there. And to think, they actually RE-USE the impulse, but not the saviour despite saviour being more "advanced".
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Old 2006-06-16, 21:09   Link #77
M_Flores
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMooFarm
I have to say though, at least to me, Saviour/Justice/I-Justice lack originality or uniqueness. I just don't see anything that big of a change between them. Heck even Aegis could fit in there if it wasn't for the fact that it turns into Crab-Claw mode and like, well yeah. Minor details don't really matter, since that could be said about Legend/Providence comparison, but seriously, S/J/I-J have nothing that stands out. They are just suits that are supposedly good, painted redish, and are piloted by Athrun. Seriously, no wonder he's unstable in GSD. I mean, Saviour comes AFTER impulse, yet impulse is waaaayyy cooler.

Put it this way, do you want to be Starscream with your "HEY LOOK MA I CAN FLY" or do you want to be the whole damn show "OPTIMUS PRIME, 5-MOTHER TRUCKER LINK MODE WHATEVER MA BOBER" with extra damn parts? If you time it, Shinn's impulse transformer time takes up like what? 1/10th of the episode every time? That's as long as the damn opening or ending. That's spotlight right there. And to think, they actually RE-USE the impulse, but not the saviour despite saviour being more "advanced".
That's cause Athrun wasn't really meant to be that significant 'yet' in battle at that time and let Shinn tear the house down for a while.
It's as you made it appear. Shinn and Impulse was meant to be the mainevent for a while and Saviour was like, just there. That's how it was meant to be, I guess.

Justice and ∞ Justice - you can't really compare them since I treat them as basically the same - only one is the modded version of the other.
It's like saying the NSX-R GT isn't original because it looks like an NSX Type S.Of course it isnt original since they're basically the same chassis.
I might have misunderstood your post (and I probably most likely have, but this was how I interpreted it, so correct me if needed).

Saviour however, may not be original, but a LOT of fans like it. It transforms which is a similar feature of Aegis, is crimson just like all of Athrun's suits, and packs a bit of firepower. I don't think this suit wasn't meant to be anything as significant as Justice - think of Saviour as another 'starter-Gundam' for Athrun (how Kira started off with Strike in SEED, Athrun with Aegis, etc.). I think Saviour is kinda like a ZAFT version of Aegis.

And as for the Justices, IMO, they ARE kinda original to me - no other overpowered or 'significant' suit uses subflight lifters for great offensive and defensive purposes, and especially ∞ Justice, which packs more melee weapons than any other suit in the entire CE. They are the 'something special' that other suits don't have. Justice basically OWNS its own league - the close combat league and that's what I think sets it apart from the rest.


However, Providence and Legend suffer more in the originality scale nowadays, since MANY suits have adopted the Dragoon system, and these two seem more like Dragoon-speciality type mobile suits to the extent that Dragoons are their primary weapons.

Unlike Strike Freedom, which even with Dragoons, can still have other combat options such as two rifles that combine, a chest cannon, rail guns, etc.
Akatsuki also ripped off the Dragoon gimmick now too, making Legend even less 'significant' and more 'its got dragoons, so what'.

Destiny kinda suffers from originality as well - its weapon loadout is just basically all the Striker packs put together - the only thing 'kind of' original or significant about it is the wings after images and the palm cannon. No one else has them.
But we still like it, dont we?

Anyways, bottom line is, Legend & Providence suffers the MOST in originality's case. Let's take a look at it's armaments:
*Beam rifle - geez, almost every suit has this.
*Beam shield - Destiny, Freedom, Justice, etc. have it too
*Dragoons - like I said before, these seem like the suit's speciality, but Freedom, Akatsuki, Chaos, heck, even Zaku's use them now.
*beam sword/javelin - yeah, another standard issue weapon

The only thing I'd say that's as close to significant or different about Legend is armaments is how it has the Beam Spike type Dragoons, which can basically stab, jab, etc. unlike other dragoons.
But still, all the other overpowered Gundams have their own gimmick - Freedom has its many, many guns, Destiny has its wings/after images, and Justice has its backpack and blades etc.
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Old 2006-06-16, 21:24   Link #78
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMooFarm
I have to say though, at least to me, Saviour/Justice/I-Justice lack originality or uniqueness. I just don't see anything that big of a change between them. Heck even Aegis could fit in there if it wasn't for the fact that it turns into Crab-Claw mode and like, well yeah. Minor details don't really matter, since that could be said about Legend/Providence comparison, but seriously, S/J/I-J have nothing that stands out. They are just suits that are supposedly good, painted redish, and are piloted by Athrun. Put it this way, do you want to be Starscream with your "HEY LOOK MA I CAN FLY" or do you want to be the whole damn show "OPTIMUS PRIME, 5-MOTHER TRUCKER LINK MODE WHATEVER MA BOBER" with extra damn parts? If you time it, Shinn's impulse transformer time takes up like what? 1/10th of the episode every time? That's as long as the damn opening or ending. That's spotlight right there. And to think, they actually RE-USE the impulse, but not the saviour despite saviour being more "advanced".
Well to be honest I'd rather be Starscream because not only is his name awesome he was my favorite decepticon in the old skool cartoon..Even in the newer Transformers energon from a few years ago he was cool as hell even cameback as a ghost to haunt Megatron...Megatron even for the first time ever showed compassion for him as he acknowledged Starscream potential (even though he killed his a$$ )...

Anyways back to the point..Athrun is the psuedo-Char of C.E. (lmao as Seed has 4 derivatives of Char [Rau, Rey, Neo, and Athrun Aka Alex dino]) That's why he gets all the custom colored mechs that all appear to be similiar...all he had to do was pilot Hyaku Shiki Jr. (hackatsuki) to complete the cycle...

Quote:
Seriously, no wonder he's unstable in GSD...
I mean, Saviour comes AFTER impulse, yet impulse is waaaayyy cooler.
Hell Shinn had to face what Athrun faced...FREEDOM was still the best suit around even when IMPULSE was kicking a$$...Then he gets what is said to be the greatest Gundam of alltime in DESTINY afixed to his battle data and specifically designed for him then S-F and I-J come down from a non-existent entity that didn't appear til ep 31 called "Terminal"...And the first time he fights S-F his battery needs a suspect re-charge while S-F runs on Lacus' love alone...Pffft...Athrun had it easy...
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Old 2006-06-16, 22:20   Link #79
M_Flores
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I wouldn't say Saviour being 'more advanced' though. But I'd say its still on par with Impulse - it can hold its own having two giant beam cannons, beam sabers, rifle and a cool AERODYNAMIC shield (wow) and a transformable feature.

Impulse just has more combat options (obviously) which made it more interesting to watch.
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Old 2006-06-16, 22:58   Link #80
DarkWarrior
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Saviour had firepower comparable to Blast Impulse and the speed and maneuverability of Force Impulse. So I'd say Saviour is more advanced.

But Impulse's greatest strength is quickly adapting to the situation, as shown many times in GSD.
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