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Old 2006-06-12, 06:38   Link #1
Yellow Flash
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[Manga] Why Yondaime is still alive

Yondaime's death is nothing but an illusion, a trick by this great magician.
He used the distraction caused by Kyuubi's attack to disappear.

It's true that many are convinced he is dead, but the evidence is not conclusive.

- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.

- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.

- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.

We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:15   Link #2
Syaoran
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About the reviving Yondaime during the fight with Orochimaru, Sandaime did everything possible to block Yondaime's coffin. He would have lost that fight in no-time. You can't really say whether or not Yondaime would have been summoned.

It's true there a mystery around him... in the end, we'll know more about it. Him being still alive would be great but I don't have any clue on what he might have become. Could be righteous, could be evil ... let's hope it's the first option.
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:18   Link #3
MysticNinjaJay
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1. We do not know what became of Yondaime's body. It was never stated.

2. Anko's statements were not out of doubt that he was dead but out of wishful thining that he could be alive to help for which she was rightfully scolded by the 3rd.

3. If anything Orochimaru's attempt to revive Yondaime from Edo tensei is evidence that he is dead, you cannot summon someone's soul back from the dead with a sacrifice unless they are really dead. Sarutobi was the one that forced the jutsu to fail, as fighting him would be quite troublesome.

With all that in mind it is well accepted by the characters in Naruto that Yondaime is dead.

Do I think he could possibly come back to life? Yes.

He may be reintroduced to the series as somehow cheating death and it would be interesting if he returned as a villain (many ofcourse suspect that he is the Akatsuki leader).


The continual references to him give an indication that as the story progresses we will learn more about him which could me he will come back.

But at the moment it is just speculation, there is no evidence that he is still alive.
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:35   Link #4
Junni
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some people think that Yondaime is the leader of akatsuki...
but Orochimaru was a member of akatsuki since he know the members of akatsuki

and if he's really the leader of akatsuki orochimaru wouldn't try to summon him..
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:35   Link #5
zamme
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Gosh.. Here we go again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.
Huh? WHERE exactly is this 'hint' stated? As far as I know, all we know of Yondaime is that the people of Konoha consider him dead. Even the Hokage(s) were convinced that he was as well. Surely they could be wrong, but there's absolutely NO facts whatsoever to justify the claim that his body never was found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.
Anko never had doubts about Yondaime's death. She only wanted her trustworthy and respected leader with a strength equal to that of Orochimaru's to aid them in the situation. That was rather just another confirmation that another highly positioned shinobi has accepted his death. I dont get your point with that second part though, just jibberish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.
Sarutobi was the one to stop the final piece of his summoning. There was no hints whatsoever that the reason the third coffin didnt surface was because there was an error in the jutsu. It was clear from the look of both Sarutobi and Orochimaru.
This also proves wrong another subject, that Yondaime would be the leader of Akatsuki. Think clearly now... Orochimaru was for long a member of the organization BEFORE he fought Sarutobi, dont you think that he would've recognized the very _leader_ of the group to be Yondaime?.. How stupid would it then be that Orochimaru would suddenly just 'assume' Yondaime would be dead and summon him back to life, even though he had seen him alive and kicking just a few months/years earlier? I know this wasnt your point, but I just wanted to state that which (from my view) pretty much rules out Yondaime to be in any kind of position in Akatsuki. (Especially since the _only_ viable hint of Yondaime still being alive is that he has a similar hair to that of the Akatsuki leader. Other then that, since there's no proof of anything but that he would be dead, this subject is just silly. Makes just as much sence as anyone else confirmed dead would definitely be alive, Like Haku, Zabuza, Hayate, Zaku, Kin, Jirobou, Kimimaro, the Uchiha clan etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.
The only reason he left Konoha was because he died and could no longer resident anything in a materialistic world. That's clear like coctail.
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:48   Link #6
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junni
some people think that Yondaime is the leader of akatsuki...
but Orochimaru was a member of akatsuki since he know the members of akatsuki

and if he's really the leader of akatsuki orochimaru wouldn't try to summon him..
That's a very good point.

I'm curious as to why Kishimoto insists on withholding Yondaime's name and referring to him constantly.

He is like the pinnacle of everything Naruto aspires to be and is constantly being drawn in cover art.

We got a little insight into his character during the Kakashi Gaiden which portraye dhim as a very gentle person.

I suspect that we will learn more about him soon as Kyuubi's role in the series becomes more prominent as it has been increasingly becoming lately.
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:50   Link #7
Yellow Flash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay
We got a little insight into his character during the Kakashi Gaiden which portray him as a very gentle person.
Yes? Killing dozens of Iwa Nins is gentle?

LMAO
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Old 2006-06-12, 09:19   Link #8
Blaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yondaime's death is nothing but an illusion, a trick by this great magician.
He used the distraction caused by Kyuubi's attack to disappear.

It's true that many are convinced he is dead, but the evidence is not conclusive.

- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.

- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.

- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.

We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.

- Was it stated that his body was never found?

- Huh i dont recall Anko ever doubting the 4th's death

- The reason oro's summon failed was because sandaime interupted it
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Old 2006-06-12, 11:38   Link #9
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yondaime's death is nothing but an illusion, a trick by this great magician.
He used the distraction caused by Kyuubi's attack to disappear.

It's true that many are convinced he is dead, but the evidence is not conclusive.

- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.

- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.

- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.

We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.
In that case:

- Hatake Sakumo or Kakashi's Dad or "The White Fang is still alive aswell.
- Uchiha Suisui (sry if misspelled...Itachi's best friend...) is still alive aswell.
- Uchiha Madara is still alive aswell.

And other things:

- Orochimaru is stronger then Itachi
- Orochimaru pretended that he couldnt use his arms...
- Sarutobi was just tired and started to sleep...there is no proof that he lies within a coffin.

Anyway...just seriously what more proof (anime or manga) do you need when someone says:

- He is stronger then me.
- He died.
- etc. etc. ?

"The first hint we got is that his body was never found."
Yondaime and Konoha aint ancient Egypt...there are no mummies...after 12 years a dead body is gone..and possibly only bones remain left.

- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.

Anko said something like...if only the 4th was still alive then this wouldnt be a problem or something like it. Where Sarutobi replied...he died already we have to do something with our own power.

- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.

You should try to read the manga since it has been said a couple dozen times that the 3rd coffin never appeared. Anime Filler...that should've been enough.

We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.
My personal opinion once again on you...you seem like a die hard Yondaime fan and seem to know so little about him. The 4th we knew was kind and all and would die for the village. If he was still alive ....people would know...and he'd still rule Konoha as the 4th Hokage.
Even if all the demons gathered and offered the 4th their souls to become a true god of shinobi then he'd still decline since he aint such a type.

Once again...my thought of the 4th was that he died heroic and because of that his name will remain....if the 4th would be alive then his status would drop and he'd seem less powerfull. Since he'd go hiding for 12+ yrs.

The fact that we know so little about the 4th means that he obviously has a history which (will) affects the main character "Naruto". Everything around Naruto would change if that "secret" would be brought to the surface. And it wouldnt suprise me if Naruto is told everything once he becomes either a jounin or Hokage.
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Old 2006-06-12, 13:50   Link #10
ri0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
It's true that many are convinced he is dead, but the evidence is not conclusive.
Wasn't it stated in one of the first sentences of the whole manga that he SACRIFICED his life?
Quote:
- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.
Where was that stated?
Quote:
- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.
Anko had no doubts, she was wishing him back from the dead... She pretty thinks he's dead then^^
Quote:
- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.
It didn't work because
a. Third stopped it
or
b. Soul couldn't be summoned because the Death God ate it.


So yeah the evidences are that YF is dead.
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Old 2006-06-12, 13:55   Link #11
Missilebuster
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he actually may be alive (hate to agree with YF), the nature of the technique that he used was to seal both the user and the victim inside the death god's stomach to fight for eternity. In this case however i believe the fox and yondaime were both put into Naruto's stomach. Maybe he's in the back of the cage
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:30   Link #12
Gattzu
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Btw YF I'am Yondaime.
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:39   Link #13
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yes? Killing dozens of Iwa Nins is gentle?

LMAO
He was a selfless individual who was devoted to helping people.

My comments on his personality are based on the way he spoke to his teammates during the Kakashi Gaiden.

Killing the enemy during a time of war is what ninjas do. It does not make him a 1 dimensional killing machine.
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:42   Link #14
Last_Hope
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If Yondaime is alive (as the final teacher for Naruto or whatever) I would seriously hate that. That just gives me lousy Hollywood chills...

I like how his name is hidden in the fog - so to say - while little is releaved. It´s a cool way to make a legend, without giving him any direct screentime, in the story.

I think it wouldn´t be all bad, that when Naruto is over, we only know a little bit more about Yondaime than we now know. Of course his name, and relation too Naruto (why he chose Naruto as the container for Kyuubi) is to be kept a secret.
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:44   Link #15
Mirtual
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yondaime's death is nothing but an illusion, a trick by this great magician.
He used the distraction caused by Kyuubi's attack to disappear.

It's true that many are convinced he is dead, but the evidence is not conclusive.

- The first hint we got is that his body was never found.

- The second hint was that Anko had some doubts about Yondaime's death.
Her wish that Yondaime was there to fight Orochimaru annoyed Sandaime,
and he replied that Yondaime is dead, a little too quickly, repeating the cover story.

- The third hint was when Orochimaru decided to act upon the premise that Yondaime is dead,
trying to summon him to this world. And sure enough, it didn't work.

We have yet to see why Yondaime left Konoha. His motive remain unknown.
I think the summoning of Yondaime was anime only.

And I agree, he might be still alive. I heared that he has been seen by various ninja through the country. He is said to be travelling with Elvis. And even though there are no usable photographs of him, the description of Yondaime (and Elvis of course) given by various independent people indicate that he MUST be somewhere out there.
Just like the truth in the X-Files. The truth was somewhere out there too.
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:47   Link #16
Gattzu
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Yeah I think they reported Gilgamesh having saké with Yondaime, like 2 days ago.
And here I thought Gilgamesh died four thousand years ago.
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Old 2006-06-12, 14:58   Link #17
ShikaShika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
I think the summoning of Yondaime was anime only.
The only thing that was anime-only was the '四' ('4') on the coffin.
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Old 2006-06-12, 17:28   Link #18
Shay
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I definitely believe Kishi has something cool planned for us. There is too much mystery surrounding him for him to be just another dead legend.

But I personally wouldn't be bothered if he did just stay dead.
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Old 2006-06-12, 17:37   Link #19
Hyuuga Neji
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this guy was un-banned already? wow..

dude, Yondaime is dead... its pretty well obvious that he is. You're just making up excuses that he isnt. THE DEATH GOD TAKES YOUR SOUL... did you not understand that about the jutsu?
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Old 2006-06-12, 18:41   Link #20
Zek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShikaShika
The only thing that was anime-only was the '四' ('4') on the coffin.
Technically the appearance of the coffin in the first place is anime-only, it never emerged from the ground at all in the manga.

This topic has been debated at length many times and I think most of us are familiar with the arguments. There is a mountain of evidence that Yondaime is dead but no definitive proof. If Kishimoto really wants him to be alive then he could plausibly make it so, but until then I think we're better off assuming that he's gone.
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