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Old 2006-06-17, 11:52   Link #21
C.A.
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Well it's not really a dream if its something that must happen. If humans don't go into space we'd surely die out.
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Old 2006-06-17, 11:57   Link #22
anavelgato
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There will be space colonies in 20-30years , maybe even 10.
Why i think this is going to happen is the same reason they got the colonies in UC , the world was full.
Now we have 6billion people on the earth , and they say that it will be 10 or more by 2030. That's alot of people , and not much room , or food.
So either we send them up in space , or there will be wars for the remaining land.
I say we send them , because that was what happend in UC. The rich countries like japan,america,eu etc stayed on earth and the poor countries was forcefully moved into space.
This is why we have alot of japanese EASF pilots , and almost no african, south americans in EASF. The once that are in EASF are possibly from the sides that joined Eearth alliance in the OYW.
Thats also why the sides view earth as a rich mans club , and don't like them , and want independance from them.

IMHO i want humans to move to space. It's been proved all to many times that having all humans on earth greatly increases the risk of extinction.
Just look at macross , had they not escaped earth there had been no human race left. And there are wars,comets etc etc.
So space is the way to go.
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Old 2006-06-17, 12:19   Link #23
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anavelgato
There will be space colonies in 20-30years , maybe even 10.
Why i think this is going to happen is the same reason they got the colonies in UC , the world was full.
Now we have 6billion people on the earth , and they say that it will be 10 or more by 2030. That's alot of people , and not much room , or food.
So either we send them up in space , or there will be wars for the remaining land.
I say we send them , because that was what happend in UC. The rich countries like japan,america,eu etc stayed on earth and the poor countries was forcefully moved into space.
This is why we have alot of japanese EASF pilots , and almost no african, south americans in EASF. The once that are in EASF are possibly from the sides that joined Eearth alliance in the OYW.
Thats also why the sides view earth as a rich mans club , and don't like them , and want independance from them.

IMHO i want humans to move to space. It's been proved all to many times that having all humans on earth greatly increases the risk of extinction.
Just look at macross , had they not escaped earth there had been no human race left. And there are wars,comets etc etc.
So space is the way to go.
There is no need to wait until there is no space on Earth left.

Do you know that we will never actually run out of fossil fuels? It's not because there is an infinite supply, but because as the supply decreases, the cost increases. It will get to a point when it's cheaper to use something else to power your cars, and as such the petroleum industry will shut down way before the supply runs out.

In the same way, we won't ever actually run out of space on Earth. As soon as it's cheaper to own land on a space-colony than to buy an equivalent sized piece of land on Earth, people will move to Space.


Economics works wonders.
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Old 2006-06-17, 12:42   Link #24
anavelgato
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We even have pioneers that will have space tourism in 5-10years.
A colony or a hotel is not so far from that. Just look at what happend in america , there a few brave pioneers sat out to find new land , and look now there is huge nations with lots of people.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:03   Link #25
Anh_Minh
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I don't see space colonisation pioneered by mass deportation. Whoever's in power will use a more cost effective method, like population control or mass murder, to solve the overpopulation problem. (Once space travel is cheap it may change, but for it to become cheap it has to be researched and practiced.)

As for planetary governments - maybe once there are several planets. People need a common enemy. If you want a planetscaled nation, you'll need a planetscaled threat.

Also, I agree with VCV. Greed and oneupmanship will get us into space.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:05   Link #26
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anavelgato
We even have pioneers that will have space tourism in 5-10years.
A colony or a hotel is not so far from that. Just look at what happend in america , there a few brave pioneers sat out to find new land , and look now there is huge nations with lots of people.
It all comes down to money.

The brave pioneers did not set off to create nations; they were trying to obtain fame and fortune. The Spanish, especially, were after the gold. The nations were accidental, and only exists by replacing pre-existing nations.

There is no point trying to romanticise it; it's all about money, and it's all about making a living. Vast space colonies will exist as soon as it's financially desirable, and not before.

Example in fiction:
In Outlaw Star, a new precious metal available only in deep space caused a new gold-rush, as people started building space vessels like mad in order to stake mining claims.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:13   Link #27
anavelgato
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There is money in space , thats for shure.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:19   Link #28
C.A.
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There's this plan going on somewhere to turn the entire Moon into a mine. And replace whatever you mined with trash from Earth.

You reduce pollution, save the need of having land for trash or land filling trash and get lots of resources in return. Especially if the Moon is going to be mined at extreme scales, we need to to replace the mass, if the mass of the Moon gets too small it may actually affect the balance of gravity forces between the Earth and the Moon. Tides may change or maybe the Moon will even crash into the Earth eventually lol
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:29   Link #29
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anavelgato
There is money in space , thats for shure.
First, we need a valuable resource in Space. It could be a precious mineral, or a material that could be synthesized only under low gravity.

Second, people will have to live near the space-facilities long term to keep it running. The pay is high for such jobs because of the risks, the isolation, and skills involved.

Third, workers want to spend their money, so an industry to keep the workers fed, clothed, entertained, etc would spring up to sap their paychecks before they even get to go back to Earth.

The support-industry required such a large number of individuals that new colonies spring up. This in turn creates a larger market, which encourages more people to move in. All of a sudden you have banks, pubs, schools for the children of the workers, sports teams, local newspaper, and perhaps local authorities.

Next thing you know, you have a nation.

All this requires the first step. There has to be money to be made. Everything else follows automatically.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:31   Link #30
C.A.
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We would also need more cost effective methods of sending stuff to space and for space travel itself.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
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Old 2006-06-17, 13:50   Link #31
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
We would also need more cost effective methods of sending stuff to space and for space travel itself.
That won't matter, if the industry that generates revenue in Space is sufficiently profitable.

An extreme example, would be if people discovered the "Dune" spice Melange. A powerful chemical that could extend the human life-span.
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Old 2006-06-17, 14:00   Link #32
anavelgato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
An extreme example, would be if people discovered the "Dune" spice Melange. A powerful chemical that could extend the human life-span.
People will go to war for less.
But the resources are there , and that there are free to take.
You could also have stuff that is not healty to the nature here on earth , because there is nothing on the moon to be affected by it.
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Old 2006-06-17, 14:07   Link #33
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anavelgato
People will go to war for less.
But the resources are there , and that there are free to take.
You could also have stuff that is not healty to the nature here on earth , because there is nothing on the moon to be affected by it.
The key, then, is the "possibility" of becoming a billionaire. You need something that is so valuable, it's still worth purchasing by people on Earth (and thus worth selling by companies) even if the transport costs adds tens of thousands of dollars to the price of every kilogram of product.
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Old 2006-06-17, 14:15   Link #34
tritoch
 
 
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I'd make the company that's responsible for shipping the stuff to space or back to Earth. I'd call it: UPS - Universal Parcel Service.
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Old 2006-06-17, 14:23   Link #35
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by tritoch
I'd make the company that's responsible for shipping the stuff to space or back to Earth. I'd call it: UPS - Universal Parcel Service.
You just brought up another point; commercial air travel was first conceived as a split service shared with shipping of goods. In that vein, once a regular system to transport industrial goods back and forth to Space and back is in place, space travel for individuals would go down in price. (Passengers would share the cargo-space with the parcels and freights)

For that matter, unless you want to simply drop everything back to Earth in disposable parachuted boxes, you will get space vessels that needed to go back to the colony after delivering their goods to Earth. These half-empty ships could make themselves useful by carrying passengers up.
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Old 2006-06-17, 14:38   Link #36
tritoch
 
 
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The biggest problem is not on the ability to make the trips regularly but the high maintenance of the ship themselves. Thrusters would burn out during space entry and then the rest of the ship could burn out upon reentry to earth. Unless we can make a stronger and lighter metal that can withstand atmospheric reentry.

Hmm.. I kinda liked the idea of a mass driver. I just send some boxes+rockets to space and get them once it is in space then delivered to a nearby spaceport before sending it all out to various colonies.
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Old 2006-06-17, 15:15   Link #37
Anh_Minh
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I don't think you can realistically shoot stuff out of Earth's gravity well. Air resistance would be a bitch, and you'd have to restrict it to materials and, well, shapes that can handle the stress of acceleration. (Puny humans would be right out unless you don't mind them arriving as a fine paste.)

Shipping of material from one space colony to another is another matter, however.

What I'd like to see would be a space elavator. We're not far from making materials that would make it theoretically possible (ie able to take the stress of their own weight), and the humongus energy cost of sending stuff up would be paid by sending stuff down.
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Old 2006-06-17, 15:20   Link #38
anavelgato
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Getting up is easy , with HLV or mass drivers you get up safe and fast , and if they are one time use it's even more safe.
Getting down you just need some Aluminium foil(Gundam 0079 tech)
Back to the topic , the spaceshipone showed that you could have a cheap ship to go into space and back without much risk.
And to quote a space tourist guy "People are going to die in space travel , but that's should not stop us from trying"
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Old 2006-06-17, 15:28   Link #39
tritoch
 
 
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It would be cheaper to use a funnel system like how airplane companies do it. Ship people from smaller ports to bigger ports then ship them out to their destinations.

The same can be said for space travel. Have a spaceport orbit earth where all the people and stuff can be shipped to colonies. My idea of sending boxes would work since the travel only consist of breaking the atmosphere to space then being picked up by a ship then sent to the spaceport and back to earth. The boxes can be use as shielding to go back to earth thus reducing maintenance. (hey its cheaper to destroy boxes than to destroy ships plus I can recycle some unused or non-severly damage parts again. Whereas ships would be too costly.) -- > This regards my post about UPS btw.

The idea of a space elevator seems kinda crude. Yes I think we do have the materials to make it but outside factors like wind resistance and weather makes it highly improbable for an efficient method. Acceleration-wise, it would be too slow and the power consumption would be too great. If what you mean by sending stuff up would be paid by sending stuff down is by using and conserving kinetic energy generated by the elevator, that would be a viable power source, but at what speeds would you expect the elevator be accelerating to whilst going down and the power consumption to stop it before it hits the ground? Not to mention the strain on its contents.
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Old 2006-06-17, 15:46   Link #40
anavelgato
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Those "boxes" could be HLV's.
Then you could have a ship to pick them up in orbit , and bring them to a station or a colony.
The HLV's could have shielding on the bottom , so when you wanted to go back to earth , you could fly them in a ship in orbit and then drop them with the shield down.
The station/colony could be away from the "fall down to earth" boarder.
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