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Old 2006-06-15, 22:36   Link #21
OmegaZEROCustom
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Didn't the original Genesis need NJC's too? I seem to recall the dialog for both Genesis firing sequences being the same, both mentioning a nuclear cartridge, the NJC's being engaged and so forth.

As for the PLANTs and space having NJ's installed, remember that Athrun talks to Patrick when he is presented with Justice and says that he thought the PLANTS decided to abandon all nuclear technology, which would make sense if they had installed N-Jammers in space and in the colonies too.
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Old 2006-06-15, 22:44   Link #22
ekirts
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lol how about you think of it as the mines still burried from (ummmm what was it called?) the war or something like that
just too many to find and remove

(oops typed something different to what i was thinking of typing)
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Old 2006-06-15, 23:25   Link #23
ccardoso
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Ok I think it's a logic assumption to think there are NJ in space, even if no direct evidence is given.
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Old 2006-06-16, 00:31   Link #24
Headspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccardoso
Excuse me but where does it say that NJ was spreaded among the space as well? I looked on Wikipedia and it talks only about Neutron Jammers on Earth.


Can you link me to a source which states otherwise?
It's also mentioned that space warships are equiped with device hence it protects the PLANTS from any nuke attack possibilites
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Old 2006-06-16, 03:09   Link #25
Mega-Pimp
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Which of course asks the question how the EAF haven't managed to capture a N-Jammer during the first war and made their own NJC if even ships got one
Not like the security is notoriously high in SEED
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Old 2006-06-16, 12:29   Link #26
Headspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega-Pimp
Which of course asks the question how the EAF haven't managed to capture a N-Jammer during the first war and made their own NJC if even ships got one
Not like the security is notoriously high in SEED
Well even if they had captured a ZAFT vessel equiped with the NJ all they would know is it's specs not nessisarly how to cancel it's effects. Take to mind that even the creaters didn't know this until later in the war
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Old 2006-06-16, 12:32   Link #27
tritoch
 
 
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EAF doesn't need to capture a ship with NJ, the entire Earth is covered with it.
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Old 2006-06-16, 12:52   Link #28
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega-Pimp
Which of course asks the question how the EAF haven't managed to capture a N-Jammer during the first war and made their own NJC if even ships got one
Not like the security is notoriously high in SEED
It was already shown that the EAF deployed their own NJ. During the Battle of Orbit, the co-captain of Menalos told the crew to activate the N-Jammer. That's how in SEED the AA knew a ZAFT attack was coming during the first arc, when they found their radar and communications being jammed, then they knew ZAFT was coming because their ships were activating their NJ.

Sutherland also pointed out that it wasn't a big surprise that the coordinators created the NJC since they were the ones who created the NJ in the first place.

Quote:
So it isn't used just as a normal electronic counter-measure.
My point was that in these space battles, the whole field would be covered with NJ interference since that's what both sides deploy to jam each other's radar. Thus, NJ is not completely useless due to the NJC which only works for nuclear reactors.

Right now I'm getting confused, what's everyone arguing about? Up to now the NJ are still used as electronic counter-measures by warships, that means that when an EAF fleet fights a ZAFT fleet, the entire area would be saturated with NJ interference, thus, jamming each other's radar and communications. Neo-Genesis of course requires a nuclear reaction to fire its cannon and since it's in a "hot zone" it would need to use the NJC to clear up the field to fire it's cannon. So while there probably aren't an NJ in space, whenever there's a warship nearby, you can guarantee they'll be NJ interference when a battle breaks out.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2006-06-16 at 13:02.
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Old 2006-06-16, 16:10   Link #29
fizzmaister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
EAF doesn't need to capture a ship with NJ, the entire Earth is covered with it.
but they are too deep underground to extract. I remember they showed a funny animation about how deep they were.
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Old 2006-06-16, 16:16   Link #30
Knightmare213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
EAF doesn't need to capture a ship with NJ, the entire Earth is covered with it.
That is true. However, the NJ are actually buried under the ground, and some so deep, the EA can't find it. However, I think I read up an article from Wiki regarding the search for NJs after the first war was over.

Then again, I don't trust Wiki as much as I did before.
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Old 2006-06-16, 16:31   Link #31
Mega-Pimp
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Would have been funny if the EAF sent down homing drill bombs after the NJs eh?
It's still rather unclear how burrowing N-jammers in Zaft territory would cause trouble in EAF territory on the other side of the world...last time I checked particles don't travel well trough rock...
"Sir, they are sending in something called a N-jammer! They have been building the things for months and are now shipping them down to block all neutrons on earth!"
"But that's impossible! you can't just block neutrons?! And what good will they do down there?! And why aren't we intercepting those transports?"
"Sir, news are just in! It's from the chief!"
"From the President?"
"Uhm...the...other chief..."
*commander reads something about plot-devices*
"Oh...well, nothing to see here! Let's invade them with tanks or something yes..."
"But what about the energy crisis?"
"NOTHING TO SEE HERE PRIVATE!"

Is probably the most plausible explantion
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Old 2006-06-18, 22:50   Link #32
reinloch
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Nukes have zero effect on anything with the appropriate shielding in vacuum if they miss hitting them. Nukes rely primarily on overpressure waves to generate much of the destruction they are famous for. And a side effect of these waves in the EMP phenomenon. So, bingo air molecules, bingo shockwave and EMP. The only thing nukes do is radiate gamma rays.

And about the subterranean NJs on Earth, if ZAFT can get them down there, EA should be able to get to them as well and disable them. To leave them alone is either a plot device or a genuine intention since it protects them from ZAFT nukes as well.

And if radar tech is a non-starter, I wonder how AShMs and SAMs home and how CIWSes on hero ships are so godly?
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Old 2006-06-19, 08:22   Link #33
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinloch
And about the subterranean NJs on Earth, if ZAFT can get them down there, EA should be able to get to them as well and disable them. To leave them alone is either a plot device or a genuine intention since it protects them from ZAFT nukes as well.
Its stated as fact near the beginning of SEED that removal of the subterranean NJs is impossible as they are buried too deep to be dug out, removed or make any attempts at disabling them viable. One will recall the scenes of the NJs drilling their way into the Earth's surface.
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Old 2006-06-19, 10:43   Link #34
NeonZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
Its stated as fact near the beginning of SEED that removal of the subterranean NJs is impossible as they are buried too deep to be dug out, removed or make any attempts at disabling them viable. One will recall the scenes of the NJs drilling their way into the Earth's surface.
Couldn't they just send bombs down there using a similar digging technology to blow up those things?
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Old 2006-06-19, 11:01   Link #35
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonZ
Couldn't they just send bombs down there using a similar digging technology to blow up those things?
That's an idea that probably lost its funding when EA went to war... And anyway, it's a plot device. You are not suppose to remove a plot device... It's trying to say "But Minovsky particles don't exist!" as a complaint about the UC universe.
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2006-06-19 at 11:12.
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Old 2006-06-19, 12:55   Link #36
fizzmaister
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IMO, The NJ don't send out particles, they change a fundamental law of the universe, but only in the close range (reference to the gods themselves by Isaac Asimov) They increase the strength of the Strong nuclear force, making many higher elements stable, so they wont split from the EM force.

@reinloch: Gamma rays are EM waves. The basic idea of an EMP (except in the matrix) is to send a nuke to space, blow it up there and sice the energy can't be dissapated as a shockwave or effectively as heat (radiation is the least effecitve mode of heat transfer), it heats up and produces higher frequency light (x-rays, gamma rays) which is just a strong EM wave which disables all electronics in range.

@NeonZ becasue it is hard to magnetically find a metal object near a molten spinning iron-nickel core which has a magnetic field and radar we all know is being jammed, and just randomly droping bombs is not practical becasue their range is rediculously small in solid rock.

Appologies for my poor explanation of the physics behind radiation as a mode of heat transfer, I'm just not good at explaining things in writing.
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Old 2006-06-19, 14:42   Link #37
Scorch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzmaister
IMO, The NJ don't send out particles, they change a fundamental law of the universe, but only in the close range (reference to the gods themselves by Isaac Asimov) They increase the strength of the Strong nuclear force, making many higher elements stable, so they wont split from the EM force.
IMHO, NJs add a 5th fundamental force to the universe. Of the 4 forces (gravity, EM, strong nuclear, weak nuclear), they're obviously not related to the first two. I can see your argument about it increasing the strength of the strong nuclear force, but I see one significant problem with it: NJs would be altering the mass of the universe significantly if they were to change the strength of the strong nuclear force. Since mass can neither be created or destroyed, the energy created by the increased binding on the nuclei would have to get radiated away - probably as gammas. Since a change in the strong nuclear force would affect the vast majority of particles on affected areas, not just heavy nuclei, earth would be subject to a likely lethal gamma flux.
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