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View Poll Results: Fate/stay Night Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 198 45.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 88 20.28%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 70 16.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 31 7.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 12 2.76%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 8 1.84%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.46%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.46%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.23%
1 out of 10 : Painful 22 5.07%
Voters: 434. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-04, 14:14   Link #941
TwilightsCall
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Spoiler for HF and Kara no Kyoukai:
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Old 2011-10-04, 15:33   Link #942
Jsmithmim@saber
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@usami haru-fate route and anime wouldn't have exsisted without saber.she is not the poster girl..the same thing goes for ubw!shiro metalily surely got strong in HF.. He learnt to only save sakura.WHY DIDN'T HE ATTEMT TO SAVE SABER,RIN AND ILLIYA AT THE TIME OF NEED..YOU SAY THE HOLY GRAIL LIED WITHIN ILLIYA..so the holy grail concept is like toys to you like it can hide in ones body..IF Its the end result than 5th war shouldn't have been there..it would have figured out in the 4th war..the holy grail should have vanished..it was never said that if holy grail grants one's wish who has won the grail war he/she would be corrupted by it..it was the for getting the grail and making their wish come true -for which all the master of 1st-5th war fought for..they never desired to dytroy it(expect shiro and his father.I DON'T KNOW WHy they did that)..finally i should go on with the manga..
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Old 2011-10-04, 16:10   Link #943
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Spoiler for HF and Kara no Kyoukai:
Spoiler for Kara no Kyoukai:
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Old 2011-10-04, 16:14   Link #944
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Spoiler for Fate, UBW, HF:
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Old 2011-10-04, 18:20   Link #945
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Usami_Haru View Post
Spoiler for Fate, UBW, HF:
Spoiler for HF & Fate/Zero episode 1:
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Old 2011-10-04, 19:13   Link #946
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
Eh, from what I remember when playing it
Spoiler for HF true ending:
Not really.

Spoiler for HF:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithmim@saber View Post
WHY DIDN'T HE ATTEMT TO SAVE SABER,RIN AND ILLIYA AT THE TIME OF NEED..YOU SAY THE HOLY GRAIL LIED WITHIN ILLIYA..
He did, except for Saber. And, Saber wasn't really saveable, so....
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Old 2011-10-04, 19:50   Link #947
alumnox
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Spoiler for HF & Fate/Zero episode 1:
For this one we need to go way way back before the first war. Join me in a long but very interesting history.

The Einzbern family was one of the most pure magus families left in the world. Remember that the children born within a family of magus can use magic but what makes the difference its when the elders pass the family crest on 1 of the children that's when that child inherits the "knowledge and history of the family".

Spoiler:

Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-04 at 21:12.
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Old 2011-10-04, 19:52   Link #948
Cherry_Lover
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Erm, what?

Do you actually have a source for any of what you just said? Because most of it seems just plain wrong to me....
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Old 2011-10-04, 20:51   Link #949
alumnox
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Erm, what?

Do you actually have a source for any of what you just said? Because most of it seems just plain wrong to me....
Uff there is tons of information. Most of it comes from the Fate/side side material also from a collection of booklets known as tsukihime notes with information of several series from type moon the new and old ones. those came out between 2004 an 2007 I think.

Also during the comiket 67 when they went for the first time as Type Moon they sold one called emiya cero with information and of course the first sales of the Fate side material 1.

Edit.

I forgot.. also the ones called Fate/complete material they are like 4 volumes I think with interviews (well more like questions and answers) with Nasu, Takashi Takeuchi and Gen Urobuchi

Like this one over here.

http://www.play-asia.com/Fate_Comple...n-70-40yl.html

I know its hard to swallow but the whole grail battle thingy and wishes its well not an illusion but not exactly as the participants are told ; actually I just remembered that a part of this was explained during the heaven feel route by Ilya.

Took some scans from the first one I pick up from the pile: =P
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a410.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a510.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a310.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a210.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a110.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a10.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a110.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a210.jpg

Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-04 at 23:42.
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Old 2011-10-05, 03:33   Link #950
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I know of the side material books, but I've seen people translate them before, and some of what you said is just not true, the best I can tell.

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-10-05, 04:03   Link #951
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by alumnox View Post
For this one we need to go way way back before the first war. Join me in a long but very interesting history.

The Einzbern family was one of the most pure magus families left in the world. Remember that the children born within a family of magus can use magic but what makes the difference its when the elders pass the family crest on 1 of the children that's when that child inherits the "knowledge and history of the family".

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alumnox View Post
Uff there is tons of information. Most of it comes from the Fate/side side material also from a collection of booklets known as tsukihime notes with information of several series from type moon the new and old ones. those came out between 2004 an 2007 I think.

Also during the comiket 67 when they went for the first time as Type Moon they sold one called emiya cero with information and of course the first sales of the Fate side material 1.

Edit.

I forgot.. also the ones called Fate/complete material they are like 4 volumes I think with interviews (well more like questions and answers) with Nasu, Takashi Takeuchi and Gen Urobuchi

Like this one over here.

http://www.play-asia.com/Fate_Comple...n-70-40yl.html

I know its hard to swallow but the whole grail battle thingy and wishes its well not an illusion but not exactly as the participants are told ; actually I just remembered that a part of this was explained during the heaven feel route by Ilya.

Took some scans from the first one I pick up from the pile: =P
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a410.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a510.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a310.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a210.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/a110.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a10.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a110.jpg
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a210.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
I know of the side material books, but I've seen people translate them before, and some of what you said is just not true, the best I can tell.

Spoiler:
Are there spoilers for Fate/Zero and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia in the text?
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Old 2011-10-05, 13:29   Link #952
alumnox
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
I know of the side material books, but I've seen people translate them before, and some of what you said is just not true, the best I can tell.

Spoiler:
Its the way it is... the only reason behind the grail war is fear to fade away =)

And its sad because in the end its more an obsession that's been driving the character of the Einzbern's for a lot lot of years.

For example the tohsaka family they care about their successors but they (as far as we know) keep the old, normal, regular breeding process and after all those years they are ok but at the same time lets take a look to the Matou, their magus blood line ended with Zouken. The Einzbern's saw that kind of problem as a possibility and its the reason why they developed heavens feel.

About the origin in my opinion its way way better explained in previous type moon works its beyond just powerful magic energy at one place.

About the third magic.

They accomplished that during their family history but later on they lost that knowledge, Nasu as far as I know never told why or how the Einzbern's lost the knowledge regarding the 3rd magic but the development of the homunculus is a consequence of that lack of knowledge.

Regarding the homunculus as I said they sound awesome they are in general terms eternal the problem is that no matter how well it might be constructed they are not part of nature they take from nature to survive so Akasha hinders their existence with abnormalities that could go as I said something simple as a body abnormalities or something bad as short life span.

About Justicia... ok first we need to go way way back again.

Justicia was a homunculus and became the core of the great grail during the first war. Became is not really accurate more like she sacrificed herself in order to prevent the system to crash. Don't blame the guys it was their first attempt.

During the second and third war the Einzbern's thought an object would proof to be more "reliable" so an object was used as the grail instead of a homunculus.

We dont have a lot of information about what happened during the 2nd war but the Einzbern's lost.

During the third war the grail broke even before the war ended and for the second time they lost their chance.

So in order to prepare for the 4th war they decide to use Justicias cells in order to create a homunculus specially designed to work as the grail or core system and thats how Iry comes into the history.

About the grant - no grant system.

Talking about the system granting wishes is not really accurate since its not its main function that's as you said just a hook for the fools that participate not fully knowing what's really going on.

I think a better way to explain it would be as a miracle breaker machine or a mystery facilitator. Think about it like this... as science evolved now miracles became technically possible through science. The magus can use the grail system to make miracles not possible for them alone.

So its not like a genie in a bottle its more like a library with every single answer.

In my previous post I intentionally tried not to use specific words like alaya, gaia, mysteries beyond miracles, aria and so on because then I must explain what are those my idea was just to let you guys know more about where the whole mess of the grail comes from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Are there spoilers for Fate/Zero and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia in the text?
No... just some random information not really spoilers.
Someone asked me whats the longest collection and I must say its the Tsukihime notes, they are booklets but the whole thing its 350 pages long with information from several type moon works not just Fate.

I always find funny how Nasu draws himself, you can see it in this one.
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/15/92/66/98/0a110.jpg

Nasu = eggplant
Kinoko = mushroom

Edit. I forgot about the 5 great sorceress

We don't really need to imagine them. They are five "living" (weird definition for these guys) magicians capable of true magic beyond modern science or magecraft. There's some information about this guys but the one with the most its Kischur Zelretch (rings some bells?) Schweinorg.
Yeah the one who gave the blueprints to the tohsaka for the Zelretch blade and its also a Dead Apostle Ancestor.

As I said guys the fate universe is huge for itself but also because it takes parts of other nasu creations.

Akasha
Spoiler:

Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-05 at 15:27.
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:34   Link #953
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To tell you the real truth-:the holy grail can surely grant wishes..if not why the grail war is for..!besides in HF end iliya sacrificed herself to dystroy the grail.I 99% DISAGREE IN THIS POINT."big plot hole"_to fulfil the grail you need at least 6 servents to be sacrificed..How many servent's spirit did iliya possessed?ONLY 4!THE ONLY WAY TO DYSTROY THE GRAIL is -someone worthy should use it to fufil one's wish(the winner of the war).AFTER the wish is granted the gate towards akasa will open.only then hf can be performed ..sacrificing oneself will never dystroy the grail,rather it will be fufilled to grant one's wish and open the gate towards akasa to perform hf..!ABOUT HF-its all the way shiroxsakura.......shiro did everything to save her..he used all of his power and mind to only save sakura..HE EVEN USED RULE BREKER!DID He use it to save saber?no....!sakura was the reason why there was disaster in HF..SHE WAS THE DARK SHDOW Who was the main culprit for dystroying the grail war..MOST THE SERVANTS WERE dark.dark.!only for her..she deserved to die..SHIRO WAS USED AS A TOY ALL THROUGH WAY.HE DESERVED TO BE A TOY WHO HE did become at the end.all the servents should vanish after the war..SO HOW THE HELL DID RIDER LIVE..?ONLY THE WINNER OF THE WAR CAN STAY BY USING THE GAIL. Rider should have dissappeared cause earlier she was dystroyed by saber.she did not win the war..besides there are other plot holes too..at the very end saber,rin and shiro should have survived.!! For now we should put more importance over FZ.."only wikipedia and type moon wiki bear the proper information"
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:48   Link #954
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Quote:
To tell you the real truth-:the holy grail can surely grant wishes..if not why the grail war is for..!
This leads me to believe that your grasp of the content of F/SN (and this discussion in general) is very weak....

The wish-granting portion of the grail is just bait to lure masters in to summoning servants and fighting. The Holy Grail War's one and only purpose is to open the pathway to the route. That is why it was started in the first place, and though it seems Einsbern and Matou may have lost that goal, that is still the reason 'why' the grail wars happen.

And OF COURSE Heaven's Feel is all about Shirou and Sakura. Sakura got completely ignored for the first two full arcs of the game, so I think its only fair that she atleast gets to be the main character of her own story.

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:57   Link #955
Cherry_Lover
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Spoiler:


Also, could you please learn how to write English.

I'll give you a hint, we use these things called "spaces", and "paragraphs". They make things much more readable. Also, regardless of what you might be learning at school, capital letters do not exist solely for emphasising random parts of your argument....

Oh, and at least try to work out how to spell basic words like "breaker" and "destroy". My nine-year-old sister would be ashamed of what you wrote....
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Old 2011-10-05, 17:56   Link #956
alumnox
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Originally Posted by Jsmithmim@saber View Post
To tell you the real truth-:the holy grail can surely grant wishes..if not why the grail war is for..!
As we told already the true and only purpose of the grail is to open a gate to the origin in order to recreate the lost knowledge of the 3rd magic. Which the Einzbern's offered to share with the Tohsaka and the Matou family.

Quote:
In HF end iliya sacrificed herself to dystroy the grail.I 99% DISAGREE IN THIS POINT.
The grail its called a system for a reason. For the system to work you need an area with tons of natural energy, you need to redirect all that energy in 1 point to force the appearance of whats called event horizon (the part of the system that helps in the summoning of the servants) that is the time frame it takes for the energy to gather around that point this is the reason they know exactly how much time they have between grail wars. All that is underground and we saw 1 (yeah just 1) of the locations in HF right below the temple.
As you said Ilia didn't destroyed the grail she closed the gate after casting a rudimentary heavens feel on Shirou's soul and in the process the area got destroyed by the fall of the ceiling. Although there are 4 (or 3 dont remember exactly) more places to gather magical energy in the city this place was especial because it was the intersection of all the other places, in other words if you dont find a way to clean there and restart the flow of energy the chances of a new event horizon are limited to how much time it will take to the other areas to gather enough energy. And as we said too its not a genie in a bottle its more like a library with every possible answer available.

Quote:
"big plot hole"_to fulfil the grail you need at least 6 servents to be sacrificed..How many servent's spirit did iliya possessed?ONLY 4!THE ONLY WAY TO DYSTROY THE GRAIL is -someone worthy should use it to fufil one's wish(the winner of the war).AFTER the wish is granted the gate towards akasa will open.only then hf can be performed ..sacrificing oneself will never dystroy the grail,rather it will be fufilled to grant one's wish and open the gate towards akasa to perform hf..!
Its not exactly that you need a specif number of servants, actually its a certain amount of magical energy needed for the core system (the grail) to be able to keep the path to the origin stable but the core as we know from the 3rd war can be used even when there's less energy or way to much inside of it.

In HF, Angra Mainyu was already taking energy from the path to the origin so the path although incomplete was already open the only thing Ilia did was to take her place as the core system. Angra Mainyu was only a parasite. The purpose of Ilia was to close the gate not to stabilize the connection to the origin making the lack of servants sacrifices irrelevant.

Quote:
.all the servents should vanish after the war..SO HOW THE HELL DID RIDER LIVE..?ONLY THE WINNER OF THE WAR CAN STAY BY USING THE GAIL. Rider should have dissappeared cause earlier she was dystroyed by saber.she did not win the war.
The solution to this is explained in the normal ending of UBW as well as in HF.
The only condition for any familiar to exist is to provide them with magical energy and a contract that allows a master to transfer magical energy to it/them and anchors them to this world. The servants are familiars but way more powerful than a normal familiar so its very hard for a magus to call a familiar so powerful with out the help of the grail but once the servant is summoned the command seals are enough to keep them here during the grail war.
As its explained in UBM normal ending and in HF the servants once the grail is gone they will need more than just their own masters providing energy. Rider still needs blood and saber would need constant "loving care" from shirou to be able to stay.

Quote:
.besides there are other plot holes too..at the very end saber,rin and shiro should have survived.!!
You missed the normal end in the UBW route right ?

Quote:
"type moon wiki"
First time I know about this one.. Ill check it out.

This one right ?
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/TYPE-MOON_Wiki

Edit. Ok went to check the type moon wiki and its awesome, there's a lot of info there. Its incomplete but a lot from the tsukihime notes is there. Even parts I copied straight from my archive are there so go and take a look.
Although careful with the spoilers XD
[/COLOR]

Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-05 at 18:17.
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Old 2011-10-05, 18:17   Link #957
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by alumnox View Post
First time I know about this one.. Ill check it out.

This one right ?
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/TYPE-MOON_Wiki
In general, it's not very reliable, especially when compared to actually playing the games. There is some useful information on there, but anything you read you should take with a huge pinch of salt.
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Old 2011-10-06, 04:08   Link #958
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Actally TM's wiki is a joke..it gives us 3 totally diffirent information about the holy grail.QUITE A RUBBISH..BUT THE FINAL CONCLUTION IS THE SAME..THE GRAIL IS NOT DYSTROYABLE UNLESS ONE MAKES A WISH!!IT SURELY GRANT WISHES..THAT'S THAT..!IT WILL ONLY BRING DISTRUCTION IF IT ONLY FALLS TO THE WRONG HANDS../IT MAY BE CORRUPTED..BUT IT WILL NEVER CORRUPT OTHER'S.RATHER IT WILL SURELY open the path for the greater magic"HEAVENS FELL"..ITS QUITE CLEAR THAT FATE AND Hf routes has some big issues with their ends..BUT UBW DOESN'T HAVE THAT..ITS GOOD END IS THE Real end..of fsn..to me..cause it has no holes.!/fate creates the 6th war doubt..instead of a happy ending and hf dystroyes the whole holy grail wars cocept and its aim.!?
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Old 2011-10-06, 04:38   Link #959
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Quote:
Actally TM's wiki is a joke..it gives us 3 totally diffirent information about the holy grail.QUITE A RUBBISH..BUT THE FINAL CONCLUTION IS THE SAME..THE GRAIL IS NOT DYSTROYABLE UNLESS ONE MAKES A WISH!!IT SURELY GRANT WISHES..THAT'S THAT..!IT WILL ONLY BRING DISTRUCTION IF IT ONLY FALLS TO THE WRONG HANDS../IT MAY BE CORRUPTED..BUT IT WILL NEVER CORRUPT OTHER'S.RATHER IT WILL SURELY open the path for the greater magic"HEAVENS FELL"..
Bullshit, the grail got corrupted in the third war when angra mainu was summoned. I know that you live in your mindless fantasy that Saber could have stayed if Shirou wished for it and yada yada, but please return to reality. If Shirou had wished it Saber would have been corrupted.

Quote:
ITS QUITE CLEAR THAT FATE AND Hf routes has some big issues with their ends..BUT UBW DOESN'T HAVE THAT..ITS GOOD END IS THE Real end..of fsn..to me..cause it has no holes.!/fate creates the 6th war doubt..instead of a happy ending and hf dystroyes the whole holy grail wars cocept and its aim.!?
Please use your english correctly, I'm not a native speaker and my posts have a lot of grammar issues and typo but this is just sad. A plot hole is NOT something that you dislike about the ending. It's something that conflicts with the plot as we know it. The grail needed to be destroyed in HF, do you seriously don't understand what it would've meant if Angra Mainu had been allowed to be born?
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Old 2011-10-06, 12:50   Link #960
alumnox
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Originally Posted by Jsmithmim@saber View Post
Actally TM's wiki is a joke..it gives us 3 totally diffirent information about the holy grail.
Well of course like any other wiki the information can or cant be accurate but I read a few things yesterday and its pretty much copy paste from tsukihime notes so at least those where accurate. I still think its a good source to know at least a little bit more information about the series or to gasp some terms that might not be well known for everybody but that helps towards a better understanding of the series.

For example the hole thing behind the reality marble that is not exclusive of emiya shirou and its part of the nasu universe. To understand from where it comes and how makes you go OHHHH!!!!!!!! when you remember or you play the games.
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