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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 235 66.01%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 79 22.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 7.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 1.97%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.28%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 1.40%
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-06-19, 13:02   Link #101
Moogster
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What I find funny with Kyon's sarcasm is that. At most times when Haruhi is doing something and Kyon's going to react, we mostly have the same reaction..
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Old 2006-06-19, 13:15   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
I spend time in forums where some people really don't like this show, just watched a couple of episodes and went away. Some people are just so turned off by Haruhi's tsun side that they can't watch. Some don't see a story. Many don't get the depth of the characterization, or don't get the humor. Some think the only thing going for the show is the animation. Some are understandably turned off by the extreme praise, or think the show is exclusively for otaku.

I feel sorry for them. I think they "just don't get it." And I feel defensive of the show. But it's their right to miss out, if they want to. And I can understand the thrill of giving a "1" just to thumb your nose at the crowd. I mean, a show can't be as good as all these effing fanboys think, can it? Well, actually, yes, it can be.
Haruhi-sama's will definitely unites the mind of all Haruhists, like I've always said. I and countless others certainly agree with you.

This episode certainly will generate quite an amount of discussion, when the subs are out. Lets make this episode discussion the most popular discussion thread lol.
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Old 2006-06-19, 13:40   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
I'd have to disagree with you on that. I believed Haruhi's dream never changed, only that along the way to (consciously) realizing her dream, she's starting to settle for something less; which in a way is more fulfilling than simply playing with aliens, espers and time travellers.

At no point during the series did I feel that Haruhi was a static queen bitch that a few have labelled her. Sure it is justified because of her treatment of Mikuru, but this is anime; animators tend to stray from unlikable main characters for fear of fanbase backlash. Beyond that, back when the calls for Haruhi beheadings began, it was really too early to judge any of the characters. Similar to real life, it's completely pointless to judge a person's character based on first impressions. If all you do is put people (and subsequently characters) into stereotypes, you'll never see the good in them (ok enough out-of-show references from me for this thread )

So definately show the dere side of Haruhi, it really makes for interesting character growth. But the fact is, even though it's not apparent sometimes, it's her Tsun- side that showcases her character and develops the show's themes.

Personally I hope they never make Haruhi 50/50 Tsundere, she'd be so generic at that point
[Criticism withdrawn, sorry man, hope there's no hard feelings.]

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2006-06-19 at 15:33.
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Old 2006-06-19, 13:57   Link #104
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It just occured to me that, far more than any other character in this series, Kyon is the real tsundere.

Kaioshin_Sama, please leave politics out of this discussion. I'm Canadian and I don't really care about US politics, but this is the wrong place for a political flamewar.
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Old 2006-06-19, 13:59   Link #105
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Kyon's sarcasm is what drives me to watch this series and to read the novels. His side comments are always funny (and always true). This would only signify that our male protagonist is thinking through his actions, which makes his personality absolutely likeable in my opinion.

I'm sure most of the Haruhi-ist here agree.
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Old 2006-06-19, 14:03   Link #106
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The people who are watching this show for the comedy should be shoot and fed to the ducks.
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Old 2006-06-19, 14:08   Link #107
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Sarcasm is comedy (see David Spade). I was deeply amused by the sarcasm and the unreal events that is happening, so in my point of view, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu is a comedy.

So erm, should I be shot?
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Old 2006-06-19, 14:14   Link #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72
It just occured to me that, far more than any other character in this series, Kyon is the real tsundere.

Kaioshin_Sama, please leave politics out of this discussion. I'm Canadian and I don't really care about US politics, but this is the wrong place for a political flamewar.
I'm Canadian too and care about all politics, for the sake of not starting a flamewar I've substituted Republican for Fox News Personality, same thing really but less directly insulting to ones party affiliation.
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Old 2006-06-19, 14:19   Link #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-kun
Sarcasm is comedy (see David Spade). I was deeply amused by the sarcasm and the unreal events that is happening, so in my point of view, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu is a comedy.

So erm, should I be shot?
I think that he meant that if people only watch SHnY for ONLY comedy, should be shot..
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Old 2006-06-19, 15:01   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
I'm Canadian too and care about all politics, for the sake of not starting a flamewar I've substituted Republican for Fox News Personality, same thing really but less directly insulting to ones party affiliation.
Enough with the insults, and please tell us clearly why you think that Shirobane missed your point.
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Old 2006-06-19, 15:31   Link #111
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Alright upon second reading of Shirobane's post I feel I have been unfair, I thought the second paragraph was directed at me specifically but instead it was being directed at other people who have analyzed Haruhi's personality. I'll withdraw that post and I apologize Shirobane, I was the one who was unfair, but you should still specify more clearly who your are directing each comment towards to avoid more misunderstandings.
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:00   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritoch
The people who are watching this show for the comedy should be shoot and fed to the ducks.
Oh, no! That would be me! Of course, I'm watching it for a lot of other things, too, so maybe the quackers will feast on someone else. But the deep, subtle and bizarre comedy is what attracted me first.
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:13   Link #113
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(Ironic that the same kind of discussion broke out over 4chan...)

Add me to that list of being fed to the ducks! This series is comedy, just not slapstick. Kyon's comedic timing with his sarcasm's almost dead-on.
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:19   Link #114
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I think that people sometimes don't seem to "get" certain shows or anime simply because of their background. Haruhi's "tsun" side and Kyon's sarcasm are not rarities as character components in asian media literature. In fact, we have plenty of tsundere stories, and they are just very adorable to us... this is not to say that American/European literature has no tsunderes -- it's just much less common.

I don't need to give more Japanese examples; they're obvious. Korea has "My Sassy Girl" is the prime example of a tsundere... and plenty of spinoffs that has this similar sort of female character. Even in chinese martial art novels (wu xia xiao shuo), there are some examples of "tsundere" in some degree or another.. however, they are hardly depicted in an adorable fashion; but rather something like an ice-cold beauty... (e.g. Xiao Long Nu from Shen Diao Xia Lu).

In some sense, these characters have "tsundere" as their stable character trait.


However, in western literature, the approach is more progressive.. that is, we have characters CHANGING from cold, dismissive, arrogant (tsun-like characteristics) to warm, humble, honest and loving (dere-like characteristics).

In other words, even the internal traits of characters are expected to change, whereas asian tsundere characters are employed such that they *reveal* their softer side; and not change to it.



As such, I think it can be difficult for some Westerners to understand the asian concepts and background themes running through anime and other shows.

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Old 2006-06-19, 16:21   Link #115
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Cheers Arias! yousendit have worked for me in the past.

And I agree, with you about the cultural difference, in Oriential cultures, when a bloke falls for a women that was a cold bitch, we just think he likes being abused... But in western cultures, well you kinda expect the women to change, well become more nicer anyway....
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:25   Link #116
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I'm watching/reading to see whether Haruhi finds what she desires in this world or whether she ends up depressed and angry like in Volume 1. The whole reality altering thing seems like a temptation to take the easy way out that is presented to her from time to time. I don't think she'll use it like Kyon thinks in episode 11, I think she'll work towards it the hard way like in episode 12 with the whole singing to the best of her ability thing. Her character is evolving I must say.
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:25   Link #117
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As I mentioned in another forum...

Quote:
It was mentioned in the novel that the songs were suppose to be "flawed", because Yuki and Haruhi were not able to team up with the band members after such a short time.

Haruhi is suppose to have your standard issues of no practice at all before a performance.

While Yuki's guitar skills were so beyond the level of the others that there were sync issues.

That's why Haruhi apologizes for a "bad" performance after the first song, and that the original CD of the band was bought by customers as a preference to the live-record version. The novel translation would explain better...

Anyway, so this isn't meant to be a straight rip of the music soon to be available on the CD single in Japan, but, like episode zero, has artificial imperfections.

An example of an opposite would be a song sang by Lacus in Gundam Seed. The song would be a straight CD rip, with no connection to the instruments and sound systems used on stage in the animation.
And I appear to be right, since the songs played in the TV episode were "stripped down" versions more in line with what is acheivable with high school students and cheap sound systems, rather than a professional recording done in a real studio. (Aya got a backup singer in the CD version, too.)
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Old 2006-06-19, 16:45   Link #118
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Since the band Haruhi was helping out was called ENOZ, and someone said it was a parody of the real life girl-band ZONE, I looked for videos of them.

Sure enough, the members consist of a base, two guitarists, and a drummer.
Are they any good? You be the judge.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tSaksjWOq...ed&search=ZONE
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Old 2006-06-19, 17:11   Link #119
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well thats not really a good song by Zone, yeah i confess, i'm a Zone fanboy. my favourite one was Good Day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRyo81jwhdw

Cute girls + Guitar Skills + Rock = music pron.
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Old 2006-06-19, 17:38   Link #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
As I mentioned in another forum...



And I appear to be right, since the songs played in the TV episode were "stripped down" versions more in line with what is acheivable with high school students and cheap sound systems, rather than a professional recording done in a real studio. (Aya got a backup singer in the CD version, too.)

Well I'm glad that it was realistic and not some bullshit "Best Song Ever", I don't care even if you are Haruhi and you are multi-talented (She seems to excel most at sports and feats of endurance due to her stamina and genki personality, though when it comes to thinking rationally about a situation and using her head well.....) (Also at least they didn't go overboard and make her as outlandishly ridiculous as Haruka and Michiru from Sailor Moon S who are LITERALLY perfect at everything, rather than just skilled) you can't pull of great stuff without practice and hard work (See Nekki Basara), and I'm glad they didn't try to do that. I was seriously beginning to worry for a while there around about episode 6-8 that they were going to turn Haruhi into a Lacus type character, you know one is perfect in every single way ($@%$ Lacus by the way, what a boring character).

Now they are doing a good job at showcasing some character flaws of pretty much everybody (Kyon's Sarcasm and sometimes irrational criticism towards Haruhi, I mean she is difficult but come on give her a break every now and then, Mikuru basically just being Mikuru [Weak-willed, naive and timid], Yuki's communication difficulties and lack of being able to have fun for the most part, and Haruhi's controlling selfish nature and arrogance that she is just beginning to realize may need to be toned down a wee bit, not to mention abysmal strategic ability, oh and Itsuki's tendency to be nosy, annoying and a close-talker, although he still seems to be stuck in that mode, maybe they should focus on him a little more)

Oh and Zone did the opening of Astro Boy 2003 which I thought was really good (What Is The Reason of My Life, Reason of My Birth, Question of Man, What He Is...., What He Wants). Did I mention that I'd give a leg if somebody out there would sub this or they'd stop releasing dub only versions of Astro Boy, anyways thats another story.
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