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Old 2006-06-21, 23:25   Link #1
Lt. Cmdr. Mu LaFlaga
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Zechs Merquies vs. Anavel Gato

Two outstanding ms pilots, so who wins? You can pick their suits.




EDIT: Gato CANNOT use his Neue Ziel

Last edited by Lt. Cmdr. Mu LaFlaga; 2006-06-21 at 23:48.
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Old 2006-06-21, 23:32   Link #2
Kaioshin Sama
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This is a tough one. Hmm, I'm going to have to say Anavel Gato with the Neue Ziel because it has an I-Field while none of Zechs units do, plus it could take a hit from almost anything Zechs has to offer save the Mega Cannon of the Tallgeese III which it would probably be deflected at least somewhat by the I-Field. The Neue Ziel also has close range and long range capabilities but than again so does the Tallgeese III. The armor still makes the Neue Ziel come out on top though most likely.
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Old 2006-06-21, 23:43   Link #3
Mr_Paper
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I'm getting sick of poorly setup Vs. threads.

Try it this way, formulate a sensible basis for the battle (for lack of a better term) between the two, as well as limitations. For example; the poster above be states that Anaval would win because he pilots the Neue Ziel and while that is fine, it has to be noted that there is nothing in the AC era that can compare to the Neue Ziel, neither Wing Zero, Epyon or the Tallgeese III carries a weapon capable of defeating an I-Field.

So, limit the playing field. We know they are both individuals capable of using an MS to its fullest, so specify/limit it to a single MS that way is is more about pilot skill than MS capabilities.
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Old 2006-06-21, 23:51   Link #4
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
I'm getting sick of poorly setup Vs. threads.

Try it this way, formulate a sensible basis for the battle (for lack of a better term) between the two, as well as limitations. For example; the poster above be states that Anaval would win because he pilots the Neue Ziel and while that is fine, it has to be noted that there is nothing in the AC era that can compare to the Neue Ziel, neither Wing Zero, Epyon or the Tallgeese III carries a weapon capable of defeating an I-Field.

So, limit the playing field. We know they are both individuals capable of using an MS to its fullest, so specify/limit it to a single MS that way is is more about pilot skill than MS capabilities.
May I suggest the GP-02 and Tallgeese proper.
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Old 2006-06-22, 00:26   Link #5
Demongod86
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Ehhh...wasn't it shown time and again that Wing Zero and Epyon made absolutely short work of any sort of shield, be it beam or whatever by simply cutting right through them? I believe at one point Zero and Epyon both had times against virgo dolls that their saber (or Epyon's huge sword) just slashed right through it.

I'd have to say the lightning count in any situation...plus, he's Char combined with Sephiroth! What's not to like?
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Old 2006-06-22, 00:32   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Ehhh...wasn't it shown time and again that Wing Zero and Epyon made absolutely short work of any sort of shield, be it beam or whatever by simply cutting right through them? I believe at one point Zero and Epyon both had times against virgo dolls that their saber (or Epyon's huge sword) just slashed right through it.

I'd have to say the lightning count in any situation...plus, he's Char combined with Sephiroth! What's not to like?
Hmmm yes yes intriguing.... except this is between Anavel Gato and Zechs Merquise, sorry you lose.
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Old 2006-06-22, 00:39   Link #7
Mr_Paper
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The Virgo's 'defensors' are completely different than an I-Field. >.>

Defensor's produce a strong magnetic field that disperses the incoming beam weapon's blast. It was for this reason that they were helpless against laser based weapons, the magnetic field didn't have a strong effect on them. More than this, an I-Field is a 360 degree bubble of protection where as the defensers only formed a three sided field of protection (unless combined with the fields from other defensers).

Virgo's defensers were defeated by the hi-order blasts from the Wing Zero because the blast was so powerful it overloaded the three defenser pods that generated the field (not the Mercuruis' 10 pods could take a full blast).

...

Just thinking of something but isn't the Dober gun on the Tallgeese a solid perjectile weapon and therefore not affected by an I-Field?
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Old 2006-06-22, 00:45   Link #8
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Physalis + Atomic Bazooka + N Jammer Canceller = goodbye Zechs
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Old 2006-06-22, 00:48   Link #9
Mr_Paper
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Let's try explainations. >.>

Why the N-Jammer Canceller? There are no N-Jammers in eithe of the eras the characters are from. Besides, the Atomic bazooka is only useful against stationary targets. Even if Zechs was only piloting the Tallgeese, it still has bone crushing acceleration and from what is shown in the series, he rarely stays stationary long enough for the bazooka to properly target him.
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Old 2006-06-22, 01:15   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
The Virgo's 'defensors' are completely different than an I-Field. >.>

Defensor's produce a strong magnetic field that disperses the incoming beam weapon's blast. It was for this reason that they were helpless against laser based weapons, the magnetic field didn't have a strong effect on them. More than this, an I-Field is a 360 degree bubble of protection where as the defensers only formed a three sided field of protection (unless combined with the fields from other defensers).

Virgo's defensers were defeated by the hi-order blasts from the Wing Zero because the blast was so powerful it overloaded the three defenser pods that generated the field (not the Mercuruis' 10 pods could take a full blast).

...

Just thinking of something but isn't the Dober gun on the Tallgeese a solid perjectile weapon and therefore not affected by an I-Field?
The Dober Gun is a solid projectile it will go right through the I-Field.
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Old 2006-06-22, 01:22   Link #11
yamikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
Let's try explainations. >.>

Why the N-Jammer Canceller? There are no N-Jammers in eithe of the eras the characters are from. Besides, the Atomic bazooka is only useful against stationary targets. Even if Zechs was only piloting the Tallgeese, it still has bone crushing acceleration and from what is shown in the series, he rarely stays stationary long enough for the bazooka to properly target him.
How about if Gato was to use the Gelgoog? I think that'd be a better suit against the Tallgeese.
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Old 2006-06-22, 01:29   Link #12
Zechs Merquies
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It is a solid projectile but would a dober gun alone be enough to take out the neue ziel?


The atomic bazooka would be useless in this duel, Zechs would not stay in one spot long enough for it to be used effectively.


If Zechs was in the Epyon, im not sure Gato could do much, the epyon has the zero system remember, which would give Zechs a big advantage. Though I belive Zechs is a better pilot than Gato even without the system.

Last edited by Zechs Merquies; 2006-06-22 at 01:44.
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Old 2006-06-22, 02:40   Link #13
grandmaster192
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Zechs and Gato are my 2 favorite characters!!!!!

I say Zechs would win because I think he's a better melee fighter then Gato. I also think Zechs maneuvers better then Gato and he's good at ranged attacks to.

I say Zechs should pilot the Tallgeese III and gato should pilot the Gundam "Physalis".

Tallgeese III
Model number: OZ-00MS2B
Code name: Tallgeese III
Unit type: mobile suit
Manufacturer: unknown (based on a OZ design)
Operator: Preventers
First deployment: 24 December AC 196
Accommodation: pilot only, in standard cockpit in torso
Dimensions: head height 17.4 meters
Weight: empty 8.2 metric tons; max gross weight unknown
Construction: titanium alloy
Powerplant: ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 3647 kW
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 87003 kg total
Equipment and design features: sensors, range unknown
Fixed armaments: 1 x mega cannon, mounted on right shoulder; 2 x vulcan gun, fire-linked, mounted in head; 2 x beam saber, stored in recharge racks in shield, hand-carried in use
Optional hand armaments: shield, can be optionally mounted on left shoulder, mounts 1 x heat rod, retractable

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/index.htm

Gato's gundam
Model number: RX-78GP02A
Code name: Gundam "Physalis"
Unit type: prototype general purpose tactical mobile suit
Manufacturer: Anaheim Electronics Corporation
Operator: Earth Federation Forces, Delaz Fleet
Rollout: 18 UC September 0083
First deployment: 13 UC October 0083
Accommodation: pilot only, in standard cockpit in torso
Dimensions: overall height 19.5 meters; head height 18.5 meters
Weight: empty 54.5 metric tons; max gross 83.0 metric tons
Construction: gundarium alloy on semi-monocoque frame
Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 1860 kW
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 32000 kg, 4 x 6800 kg
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.87 G; 180-degree turn time 1.1 seconds
Fixed armaments: 2 x 60mm vulcan gun, fire-linked, mounted in head; 2 x A.E.Blash AEXB-909L beam saber, stored in recharge racks in hip armor, hand-carried in use; AE/ZIM.G-BAZ-0186-A atomic bazooka (uses Mark-82 nuclear warhead, 1 round in chamber, breech and firing chamber), mounted on right shoulder, barrel/trigger mechanism stored in shield when not in use
Optional hand armaments: NR-Sh-02-RX/S-00013 shield, stores barrel/trigger mechanism for atomic bazooka

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/index.htm

I think thats a fair match that could decide who's the better pilot.
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Old 2006-06-22, 05:28   Link #14
Sety
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I find it kinda ironic that on paper, Tallgeese III doesn't stand a chance vs Neue Ziel wheras Tallgeese I/II would actually be effective vs Neue Ziel.
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Old 2006-06-22, 09:15   Link #15
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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It's virtually impossible to make these sorts of VS duels since there's no real way to compare 2 completely alternate universes (the closest to the UC era being Gundam X or Turn-A Gundam). Trying to put up VS matches between AC or CE and UC era characters is really impossible to decide given the mecha between the 2 are pretty radically different.

There's really no way to tell for these 2. From a much more realistic point-of-view, I'm sure Anavel Gato would win.

From a Gundam Wing "invincible-until-the-story-calls-for-otherwise" point-of-view, Zechs would win, regardless of mecha. I mean...he did pretty much tie with Wing Gundam in an outdated Leo...which we all know is basically impossible unless you're a main character in GW. Anyone else would've gotten seriously owned. Not to mention anyone else within close-range to even just the blast of the Wing Gundam's buster rifle gets blown up when Zechs was RIGHT next to it and nothing happened at all. Main character-invincibility there...

I'm always Pro-UC in these cases so I go for Anavel Gato.
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Old 2006-06-22, 09:24   Link #16
SNT1
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I think that Zechs got this.

Think about it---All of his mechs run from 7-8 tons of dry weight----about 15-20 tons max when equipped, estimated via UC MSes of that weight. And What UC MS was I talking about? yep, the F-91/V-Gundam Era of the UC world. This only suggests that technology in Gundam Wing is more advanced, having more acceleration and overall speed. So anything you put Gato in---be it GP02A on Neue, Epyons/Geeses would run circles around it.

If Gato uses the 02A, Zechs can outmelee him with every single MS he has (except Leo o_o), and if he uses Neue, that dobergun works, and maybe even Beam saber if Epyon's 10-meter beam saber is enough to punch through an I-field...

Tallgeese3's aceleration, estimated using Mahq.

empty weight - 8.2 tons, lets double it to 'estimate' is full load. 16.4 tons = 16400 kg
thuster output - 87003 kgf

a = f / m = 87003 kgf / 16400 kg = 5.304 g worth of acceleration, more or less

of course there are things like pilot skillz, where their resumes look pretty equal, skilled non-newtypes that pilos a wide array of weapons, so that basically evens out.

Last edited by SNT1; 2006-06-22 at 09:37.
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Old 2006-06-22, 10:06   Link #17
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Dont forget that epyon/tallgees III's heat rod can easely penetrate an I-field and unlike the dober gun, it can inflict serious damage to almost any type of armor(excluding plot armor that is)
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Old 2006-06-22, 15:27   Link #18
Fafnir
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Just put them both in Leos/Zaku IIs, with even equipment.

That would be a fair fight.
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Old 2006-06-22, 19:26   Link #19
Commander 598
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1. Epyon does have the heat rod.

2. Didn't amuro beat an i-field with a beam saber?

3. Neue Ziel is, like most MAs, exceedingly fast and powerful but they technically have poor maneauverability in comparison to a mobile suit.

I see no reason why you can't put the Neue Ziel in this. It would actually give Zechs the advantage.

This is actually a good fight/comparison...
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Old 2006-06-22, 19:48   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander 598
1. Epyon does have the heat rod.

2. Didn't amuro beat an i-field with a beam saber?

3. Neue Ziel is, like most MAs, exceedingly fast and powerful but they technically have poor maneauverability in comparison to a mobile suit.

I see no reason why you can't put the Neue Ziel in this. It would actually give Zechs the advantage.

This is actually a good fight/comparison...
Now that you mention it, I did manage to beat the Neue Ziel with Wing Zero Custom in EIS, lol using just the beam saber...
But then again, we can't really use evidence based on games can we?
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