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Old 2006-10-03, 21:36   Link #1001
potholes
~ hanabi
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayumi
Yesterday I saw the last episode, and I feel a little nostalgic, because it's hard to believe that it's over. I'll miss every character, Takemoto, Hagu, Morita, Yamada, Mayama... But, I must say, this second part of the history was awesome. First of all, Takemoto changed a lot; he became more courageous. I also liked how Hagu became older, not only because of her appearence, but also her personality. In Honey and Clover I, she was "perfect" and "untouchable", yet in Honey and Clover II she seems more human, at least to me. Yamada, always cute and, at the same time, always crying and Mayama, who fighted for Rika until the end. I also enjoyed to see Morita and Kaoru history (ep. 7 is one of my favourites). Morita is not so funny like in H&C II, but Morita is always Morita: it's impossible (for me) not admire and like him.

I think that more than love, H&C is about friendship and H&CII is the real proof of it. They can be in love forever, or not. But, in the end, they will always be friends. The end was great, lovely, yet sad. The final scene with Takemoto talking about his feelings is very powerfull. I admire H&C; it made me think over and over again. It's about life, about people and feelings. It made me laugh (Shinobu!) and smile.
you summed up my thoughts real nice Ayumi that's exactly what I thought of H&C 1&2. Love doesn't always mean you have to be together to really appreciate what it means. It comes in a lot of different shapes and circumstances.
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Old 2006-10-04, 10:09   Link #1002
Ayumi47644
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Exactly, that's what I thought when I saw H&C, and I think that's a big message that the author is trying to say to us

Last edited by Ayumi47644; 2006-10-04 at 10:19.
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Old 2006-10-04, 13:49   Link #1003
mycen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayumi
Exactly, that's what I thought when I saw H&C, and I think that's a big message that the author is trying to say to us
Indeed!! That's why I like H&C series I an II so much. Awesome storyline and character interaction .
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Old 2006-10-04, 21:01   Link #1004
potholes
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i wish there is more anime of this calibre out there.
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Old 2006-10-05, 01:43   Link #1005
Cal-Reflector
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The anime is over, the manga is finished. Honey and Clover has come to an end to we the fans' chargin. Unrelenting and unwise as I am, I've signed up for an RPG where I take on the role of... (I'm sure those familiar with me can guess) Shuuji. The story is set three years after the end of the series, and thinking that it might amuse some of you, I've decided post here a status report on Shuu's life, told by his own voice, three years after.

Spoiler for Only for those interested:


Wish me luck; hopefully I'll make a good Shuu.
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Old 2006-10-05, 07:57   Link #1006
Ayumi47644
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Cal-Reflector, I read your report about Shuuji's life.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by mycen
Indeed!! That's why I like H&C series I an II so much. Awesome storyline and character interaction .
That's right, I loved the storyline and the characters. H&C is about life and made me remember things that happened to me a long, long time ago. I have seen many anime shows, but H&C was different. And that's the point of a good anime show, isn't it?
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Old 2006-10-05, 09:00   Link #1007
Lyannea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector
Wish me luck; hopefully I'll make a good Shuu.
Just one thing : Hagu is not Shuuji's niece. She's his cousin to second degree. I have no idea how it is called in english though. :P

Rest is quite good. Though I never imagined Shuuji would try to stop smoking... It is an interesting development.
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Old 2006-10-05, 09:26   Link #1008
aliensporebomb
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I suppose she would be what they call in the U.S. his "second cousin", also
known colloquially as "Kissing Cousins" since that's the closest relation you
could actually marry should the thought come to you.

That is a nice "Shuu in the Future" reflection.

Spoiler:


What's nice about your RPG is that there's a lot of material
to work with.

I myself have some visions of some of the characters..
note this is purely hypothetical and based only on what I
think could be possible and no real reality..

Spoiler:


It's hard for me to come up with ideas for the main characters
though, so I'll have to think hard about that.
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Old 2006-10-05, 16:01   Link #1009
Cal-Reflector
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Spoiler for Emotional Responses to each episode as I marathon through season II:


Conclusion:

So in the end...

Ayu: Little development in the latter half, the pivotal turning point being when she told Mayama about how to grow a spice to accompany somen with when he went to Spain. Inspected by a microscope, it may be that she's finally yielding to Nomiya.

Takemoto: Grew by leaps and bounds, no character has earned my resepect more than him. Our great narrator who finally finds for all of us the central question of the series: Whether there is a meaning to something that does not last (or a love unrealized), or does it disappear like it never existed before. Yes, there is.

Mayama: Little development in the second half, well, he was pretty on track since the end of season 1, and we see his stalker-persistency finally come to some fruitition. I still don't like him though, but that's personal.

Morita: Takemoto's opposite and rival; talented and wealthy. After the emotional drain from the Kaoru-Monte-Cristo arc, wants to escape with Hagu, but is encouraged by her instead. Unlike Takemoto, his fight for her love will continue (I think it is but a matter of time, as she loves him too), and we shall all be cheering for him.

Shuu: Taking a sabbath was not just for Hagu's sake, but for his own as well, as the years with Hagu have finally enabled him to finally leave Hamabi and its memories behind, and embark on that Journey of Personal Discovery like Takemoto, which he never had... if Harada and Rika hadn't brought him back everytime, years ago, things would have turned out very differently for Shuu.

In that regard, Shuuji and Takemoto are analogus, the difference being that one was able to go on a biking trip to Hokkaido and the other not.

In the end, Shuu will finally embark on his many-years-delayed-journey to discover just what is his purpose in life. His love (romantic, fine, whatever) for Hagu is unselfish, and it would seem that in his heart, he sees that there will come the day when Morita returns for Hagu, and for Hagu's happiness he would not mind it. I hope by that time he'd have found his TRUE purpose in life... in Rika, back where he started.

Hagu: She's a strong lady, and the character who grew the most aside from Takemoto (or just as much), the character most weak and dependent turns out in the end to the emotional support of just about everyone else, encouraging them on in life with her own struggle against pain. The choice of art over Morita is temporary, and as long as that love is there, it is outrageous to think that she cannot have both in the future.

Kaoru: A side character, I know, but I love this man. Embodying the struggle of the common man under the shadow of genius. I loved this guy ever since he kicked down Shinobu's door and charged Takemoto for the Taxi ride as a joke. *Salute*

Nomiya: Always remained a side character for me... his involvement with Ayu never seemed to draw me in, not even as much as the Ayu-Morita friendship moments. That said, when Ayu forelornely spoke of where Morita had gone, seeing his name on a sake pitcher, and calling him a liar, my Ayu-Morita shipper's heart leapt with joy.
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Last edited by Cal-Reflector; 2006-10-05 at 20:17.
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Old 2006-10-05, 22:38   Link #1010
misakichii
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OMG! i haven't been on animesuki for the longest time on so i'm so behind and finally tonight i'm kinda trying to compensate for the time i have lost. so WOW! i'm so freakin excited. there's a second season. i did not know that. i really didn't. i was so sad when the first season ended. wow! it's a must see. yay! IKE H&C!!!
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Old 2006-10-05, 23:21   Link #1011
Theowne
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Quote:
Kaoru: A side character, I know, but I love this man.
Yes! Another member of the Kaoru fanclub.

Quote:
the difference being that one was able to go on a biking trip to Hokkaido and the other not.
In season 1 Shuuji's sensei was talking about ( I think) how Shuuji himself had also gone on a self-realization trip, in a comedy scene. Of course this was before Harada-Rika, etc. I'll try to find the exact ep where they talked about it, obviously it must be near the end of season 1.
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Old 2006-10-06, 00:38   Link #1012
Shades
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Very good ending...few live up to my expectations, and while it didn't end the way I might've thought... it still works, and I still find it right.

Part of me still feels bad about Morita... his heartfelt feelings about his dislike of how people react to his talent resounded well with me...he has his friends but somehow there's still always a wall there...

Some people say he may still go with Hagu, but I don't think so. Either way. And while I was going to ask about Takemoto's va...they list him in the credits...should've looked there first instead of thinking they'd list the normal one and not list the replacement.

Last edited by Shades; 2006-10-06 at 01:12.
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Old 2006-10-06, 04:07   Link #1013
tetsuo
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Unhappy The end of Honey and Clover!

Wah!!! why did it have to end? I loved it soo much! All the greatness, the great story, the great characters, the great love!!! why why did it all have to end. So yeah i guess now that its finished, i just wanted to know everyones favorite moment in either season. Mines is actually the ending scene it almost made me cry, it was just so touching and yeah all the crying made me wanna cry!
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Old 2006-10-06, 05:02   Link #1014
Rion
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne
Yes! Another member of the Kaoru fanclub.
Oh yeah *ggg* I'm really glad there actually are people who like Kaoru (like myself). I always got the impression that people think Kaoru is "getting in the way" in the storyline and want more Ayu/Hagu/Mayama/Rika/whoever-action. I personally think that Kaoru is very important - at least for Shinobu. Shinobu actually always considered Kaoru and his family as his first priority in life - but now that it's over, he has realized that he has a life of himself, and will probably pay more attention to his own intellectual and emotional growth now. He can now live to pursue what he really likes (working with Peter Lucas and his love interest Hagu)... *____* For Morita, this is probably the best development of all...
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Old 2006-10-06, 09:19   Link #1015
Zappster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

Morita: Takemoto's opposite and rival; talented and wealthy. After the emotional drain from the Kaoru-Monte-Cristo arc, wants to escape with Hagu, but is encouraged by her instead. Unlike Takemoto, his fight for her love will continue (I think it is but a matter of time, as she loves him too), and we shall all be cheering for him.
You can count me out of that. I won't be, but that's mainly because I dislike the way things went for him. He's a funny guy and everything but yeah, no way in hell would I be cheering for him. Mainly the Takemoto fan in me speaking.

As for your edit 10 in your spoiler it wasn't a kiss IIRC, just a hug. Might have to rewatch it again, but at the time I can't recall anyone else "seeing" the same thing either.
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Old 2006-10-06, 10:06   Link #1016
Ayumi47644
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Kaoru was one of the characters that surprised me. One of my favourite episodes of H&CII was ep. 7, which was about Morita and Kaoru's childhood. I didn't pay much attention to Kaoru when he first appeared in season one, but Umino Chika surprised me with his and Morita story. It was a huge development for Kaoru, although I would like to know more about what happened to him after the end of the story. Another thing is that I couldn't hate Tatsuo for what he had done. He wasn't presented as a villain, and I don't think he was it.

About the pairs, it's funny, but I don't "love" any of them. When I saw the first episode of H&C my thoughts were: "Well, Yamada will end with Mayama, Hagu with Takemoto and Morita, well... I don't know". That is what usually happens: it's everything difficult, but, in the end, it's like that. However, I quickly understood that it wouldn't be like that. Another different point in H&C!

I admire a lot Morita and Yamada relationship. If there were a pair that I could choose it would be them.
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Old 2006-10-06, 13:18   Link #1017
Cal-Reflector
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While discussing character backgrounds for the purpose of the Hachikuro RPG I'm participating, I had a sort of epiphany, which I think others here may have already thought of before: It is the extent to which the Harada-Rika-Shuu relationship parallels the Morita-Hagu-Takemoto triangle.

I never thought that H-R-S could have been a love triangle
before the person brought it up, but now that I think about it, there were already
many, many strong parallels set down by the author between the
two relationships already. For example:

Like Takemoto, Shuu was constantly made aware of his lack of talent
compared to the other two geniuses.

Shuu was aware that the other two were in a world of their own.

Shuu was the down to earth one while Harada was the one who had it all: popularity, talent, brilliance, and a larger than life attitude.

Shuu probably even left on his journeys (failed) of self-discovery for the same reasons.

Likewise, what's to say that Shuu wasn't in love in Rika, lost out to
Harada, conceded like Takemoto did, and the three continued living
together. Picturing Shuu and Rika's relationship in parallel to Takemoto and Hagu's (She loves him, but the other a little more) It seems to fit
quite well, the analogy, does it not?

If the same fate should have befallen the three, I see Takemoto doing the same things for Hagu as Shuu did for Rika.

I understand this may be a strectch of a comparison, but what do you guys think?
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Old 2006-10-06, 13:48   Link #1018
aliensporebomb
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I don't know.


Re: Shuu / Rika:
Spoiler:


Re: Takemoto's Future:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-06, 13:54   Link #1019
Cal-Reflector
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliensporebomb
I don't know.


Re: Shuu / Rika:
Spoiler:


Re: Takemoto's Future:
Spoiler:
Oh of course, I agree completely with what you said. All along, I should've made clear that in spite of their parallel positions, Takemoto differs tremendously from Morita in that he found his closure and moved on; Shuu never did until many many years later, and is even now still searching for what Takemoto has already found.
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Old 2006-10-06, 16:22   Link #1020
Rion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayumi
I admire a lot Morita and Yamada relationship. If there were a pair that I could choose it would be them.
And sometimes I wish Honey & Clover would be more of a josei and Ayu and Morita were sex friends. Seriously, this series lacks the sex.

@aliensporebomb: I love your speculations about Takemoto's future and your interpretation about him. On the other hand, I do think that there's some kind of chemistry between them, it's just that Hagu loves art and Morita more than Takemoto. (Similar to Nana... it's not like Shouji didn't love Nana, it was just that he loved Sachiko more.)
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