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Old 2006-10-06, 17:36   Link #1021
potholes
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This series lacks the sex? IMHO the series is just as fine as it is... you don't need sex scene to make a great story. I think if there are more sex scene in this series, it will just spoil the storyline.
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Old 2006-10-06, 17:47   Link #1022
Rion
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This is a series that spans 4 years, 38 episodes or 10 volumes of manga and is generally considered as "mature" and "deep". On top of that, it is about college students. I don't care about seeing sex scenes, but I wish these people actually would have sex in the story besides Mayama and Rika. Are everybody else (Takemoto + Shuuji + Morita + Hagu + Ayumi + Nomiya etc.) completely uninterested in sex? I hope they aren't.
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Old 2006-10-06, 18:34   Link #1023
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A long, long time ago (by Anime standards), when I think the first season had aired... a couple episodes over the midpoint, there came a debate on this very topic that I believed became quite heated, which lasted about... 30-40 comments? The topic started by one poster who felt it unnatural and awkward... that the sexual aspect of the characters, young and healthy as they were, was not emphasized more in the story, I think that was it. Critiques of this poster brought in Japanese cultural factors, etc, etc, etc.

I believe I was one of those who, without throwing my chips on one side or the other, felt that it wasn't awkward for the series to be presented for the most part as nonsexual.

That discussion of course has been wiped out by the 9-11 equivalent to animesuki, and along with most posts in the entire forum, have become lost forever.
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Old 2006-10-06, 19:48   Link #1024
052569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rion
This is a series that spans 4 years, 38 episodes or 10 volumes of manga and is generally considered as "mature" and "deep". On top of that, it is about college students. I don't care about seeing sex scenes, but I wish these people actually would have sex in the story besides Mayama and Rika. Are everybody else (Takemoto + Shuuji + Morita + Hagu + Ayumi + Nomiya etc.) completely uninterested in sex? I hope they aren't.
I think it's simply that the focus of the story isn't there. To varying extents, every character in any fiction is a caricature, so that the author can drive the point across without being bogged down by minor details.

Another perspective would be that H & C is a slice of life drama; the author chooses the parts that he/she deems more important to present to the audience, and discards the rest. More generally, one could imagine that the characters aren't sexless (I can definitely imagine Nomiya in bars looking for and scoring one-night-stands), just that they don't do it "on camera." To compare (albeit the comparison is quite poor), Futari Ecchi is also a serious slice of life drama, except the author focus specifically on sexuality. Naturally, at a glance it seems that every character thinks about nothing but sex (except when Yura's pissed ).

Finally, at the risk of putting words in your mouth, perhaps your critique is that leaving out sex in a serious exposition on romantic relationships is unbelievable, and therefore weakens the story. Well, perhaps you have a point here. However, people have varying thresholds and/or criteria in suspending their disbeliefs. For you, the sexless aspects crossed the line. OTOH, for me the fact that all characters in H & C are absolutely unwavering in their convictions--be it on romance, self discovery, trust, etc.--is the most unbelievable aspect.

FWIW, H & C is nowhere as bad as AMG. At the rate the relationships are developing, one really have to wonder if Skuld's various inventions aren't emitting some sort of radiation that's rendering K1 infertile...
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Old 2006-10-07, 00:38   Link #1025
Rion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 052569 View Post
OTOH, for me the fact that all characters in H & C are absolutely unwavering in their convictions--be it on romance, self discovery, trust, etc.--is the most unbelievable aspect.
You make a point there. It actually is also one of the aspects that bothers me the most, but every now and then, I see people mentioning this ("The characters don't change at all over 4 years!") so I didn't bother with this. Even though I love the anime myself, I just think it is not realistic and mature at all, with everybody behaving like junior school kids.

Quote:
At the rate the relationships are developing, one really have to wonder if Skuld's various inventions aren't emitting some sort of radiation that's rendering K1 infertile...
LOL Harr harr... but then again, AMG is not supposed to be a slice-of-life, but a "Guy-who-doesn't-get-any-girls-but-suddenly-finds-himself-in-a-harem" series.
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Old 2006-10-07, 16:53   Link #1026
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Does the manga ends the same as H&C II or does it continue?
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Old 2006-10-07, 17:18   Link #1027
Ayumi47644
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I don't think that sex was really necessary in H&C. I am not against it, I just don't think it was necessary. Maybe the author's point was focus emotions. I don't mean that sex isn't related with emotions. I just think that, when it's about unrequited loves and when there is an huge friendship betwheen the characters, there's no need of sex. That's because Mayama and Rika had sex together: they felt more than friendship. About Morita and Hagu, it's obvious that they love each other, but we know that there are many things behind this relationship. Hagu is human, I know, but she loves her art and I think that she just doesn't think in sex.
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Old 2006-10-07, 17:31   Link #1028
Kyomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizu View Post
Does the manga ends the same as H&C II or does it continue?
It's over, end of the line for HnC, the mangas have been over for a while, and the anime caught up to it, so you most likely won't find any more info beyond the ending.
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Old 2006-10-07, 23:12   Link #1029
physics223
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I still haven't finished H&C II for fear of having nothing beyond the final three episodes I am going to watch. But that's for another time and for another discussion.

I do see the point of Rion (if I am correct) that it seems pretty awkward that the series is generally asexual (in a sense that it has these virginal people not even caring about sex). Coming from a real life POV, it is. I see the point of other posters, however, that this anime is only a simulacrum, somewhat a quasi-representation of what real life is. Perhaps the author didn't want to put emphasis on the sexuality of these people and wanted to concentrate on their relationships - only the author knows. However, for me it seems that these are only placed beyond the scope of what the anime shows - although they exist somewhere in that alternate universe.

Bah. I'm just reiterating what the others have said, so I'll shut up and stop here.
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Old 2006-10-08, 06:39   Link #1030
physics223
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And here are my comments on the final episode of Honey and Clover. I hope you find them interesting and entertaining.

It was ... nothing short of extremely and excellently wonderful. Wow. Wow. I guess all I need this year is to have a majestic ending of NHK, and I'd have a decent year in anime watching.
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Old 2006-10-09, 17:33   Link #1031
DannoHung
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Blah, color me dissapointed.

I don't even know why they decided to make this. First season ended so much more satisfyingly.

I dunno, maybe I just wasn't in the mood for it. I think I need to watch something blow up.
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Old 2006-10-09, 19:52   Link #1032
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Hm. I guess if you need explosions and car chases for your entertainment
then H&C isn't going to be your cup of tea.

Give it a few years. It's one of those things for a rainy sunday when you're
maybe just a little wistful.

Solar's HD sub just came out of EP12. Gorgeous as usual.

It's kind of weird that it's over but there are a lot of other options out there
now and we still have no clue what Umino Chica-sensei has put together for
her new manga - it could be anything.
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Old 2006-10-10, 02:08   Link #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliensporebomb View Post
Solar's HD sub just came out of EP12.
I'm waiting for batch to be released to download all of them.
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Old 2006-10-10, 13:19   Link #1034
kauldron26
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Back to the sex issue, i never thought about it until today... in between my History of Ancient Philosophy and my Clinical Psych Class. SEX should have been important or atleast portrayed in this story. I love Honey and Clover, or atleast i loved it much more until the whole incest thing with shuu and Hagu, but over 4 years, not one single one of those characters got laid?? are u kidding me? and even Shuu, now that i think about it, it is sort of creepy that he has been alone by himself all this time infatuating over his little cousin (10 yrs his younger) for 4 years. But seriously though even a slice of life anime, should portray the realism of life itself, If Kare Kano even discusses issues and focuses on sex (when in high school) yet in college (im a senior in college and there is plenty of sex going on) sex should take place. And how in the world could a girl like Ayu actually be inlove with someone for 4 years after being rejected?? and same thing goes for Takemoto, except he accepted it and continued to live, without hope of ever being with her. That i can accept. But Ayu?? no way... Sex might not have made Honey and Clover greater, but come on... it would have been more realistic. Look at Tsukihime, though it was not a slice of life anime, the love scene sure as hell added so much more intensity, realism and passion to their love story.

Here are some Anime were there was sex, and it was important or atleast improved or added to the story.

Berserk: Caska and Gats made love after they realised how much they love each other.

Rahxephon: depends on which u believe to be the canon story. In the movie Ayato and Haruka have sex, but in the series, they have a baby when in the end named Quon.

Planet ES: Hachimaki and Tananbe. After that glorious proposal, they get married and have a kid.

Gundma Seed: U know the scene, or scenes...

Ai Yori Aoishi

Samurai Champloo: Jin and the woman he fell inlove with in ep 11.

Kare Kano

Tsukihime: the love scene in the last ep.

Eureka Seven: Holland and Talho have sex numerous times and even have a baby.

I am not saying sex is absolutely necessary, but if u look at some anime like the ones above, it really does add a touch of realism. There is no way in hell, that 20 something year olds are just wondering around heart broken and are virgins or uninterested in sex.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 2006-10-10, 15:18   Link #1035
Ayumi47644
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In real life, maybe all of them would have sex because, yes, when two people love each other is beautiful and special, etc, etc. But, like I said (and many others) before, perhaps that wasn't the author's point. I saw Tsukihime and it was a very special scene, yes, but Tsukihime is not Honey and Clover. They are two different anime shows.

Now that I think about it, there were many opportunities that could have end in sex. When Yamada was drunk and sad, with Nomiya, for example. When people are drunk and sad, sometimes they feel fragile. But that just didn't happen, perhaps because the point was how Yamada was feeling, how she couldn't stop thinking in Mayama and how painful an unrequited love is. And we can't forget that H&C, in spite of being a slice of life anime, it's not the reality itself.
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Old 2006-10-10, 15:49   Link #1036
Lyannea
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What people all have with sex?

Is it such a need? Maybe for you it is, maybe for others it is not. In my case, I never felt the need to have sex with someone else unless that person was my lover.

In honey and clover, Mayama got the sex with Rika and Morita got the kiss with Hagu. But it is not enough... everyone should be involved in some sex relationships?

Who tells you Mayama was not masturbating (sorry if I am going into something taboo) while thinking about or spying Rika? Maybe it is the same for everyone? Better satisfty themselves alone than catch things like aids. And to me it wouldn't have been necessary to see that.
Also, maybe Morita has lover everywhere he had a work. But would it improve the show to let us know that? I don't think so. As for Nomiya abusing of Ayu, it would have screwed up his chances. and it is said he thought about it (guess why he saw unicorns?)... About Ayu, she waits for her charming prince, who happens to be Mayam in her head, why would she wants to give her body to anyone else if she refuses to even let go her love?... It would be stupid "i give my body, but my heart is for Mayama baka!"...it would have screwed up her character.

Love is not just about sex. More when you can't get your love. If you want to have sex with anyone you see, fine. But it does not mean every characters of every book has to be the same.

I could go on and on about that issue... I think people are too focused on sex, definitly. If you are that much in need of seeing that, buy porno!! And sorry but I would not like Honey and Clover to end up like one of those ugly american soap where everyone sleeps with everyone and everyone is jealous of everyone and in the end no one knows who he/she loves... sigh
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Old 2006-10-10, 15:58   Link #1037
aliensporebomb
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Realize too the Manga-ka of this series is a woman so sex may
only be used when she deemed it necessary but none of the
characters is a monk I believe.

I'd say episode four, season two, someone definetely scored.
Watch it again.

Spoiler:


And later in season two of H&C - Morita/Hagu shippers do you agree?:
Spoiler:


I haven't seen the series you describe, but one I have, REC was
a bit interesting in that:

(really don't click if you haven't seen it, watch it instead)..
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-10, 18:06   Link #1038
physics223
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I definitely think Mayama scored. How it ended just proved it - aside from the fact that one could see a much healthier Rika (from her countenance), their talk as the ending credits played seemed to portray her in a content and happy light - she was smiling as they talked. Notice that she never smiled after the accident until Mayama came let her know that life is still worth living, and she seems to bless Mayama with this gift of happiness to herself as well as to him.

I love that couple. I hope they end up together together. YKWIM?
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Old 2006-10-11, 00:32   Link #1039
catcher
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Lyannea, you're right. Actually I don't understand why H & C should have more sex, I think it didn't need more than what was shown. H & C would be ruined if it focused more on sex, imho.
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Old 2006-10-11, 01:25   Link #1040
kauldron26
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im not saying they should have focused more on sex, hell no. All i am saying is that sex itself would have made the show more realistic in some sense. Remember, i love the show for what it was, and Mayama and Rika were hands down the best coupling. And they did have sex, all i am saying is if they actually showed how sex affects people emotionally, it would have added to the story a little. But even without it the show is still great.
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