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Old 2006-06-28, 01:27   Link #61
Mr_Paper
Hmm...
 
 
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I'm going to start on the first one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera
1. Simple one

MS-06F Zaku II vs. OZ06-MS Leo

The basic "06's" of both centuries. Both basic, versatile MS that always seem to get outclassed by the big, bad Gundams of the series.(As well as more advanced MS) Of course, while the Leo is basically nothing more than cannon fodder no matter how it is armed or variated, the Zaku II has, at the very least, been well-known.
You really have to look at these things in varied ways. For instance, just because the Zaku has received well over a hundred times the screen presence of the Leo does not make it better. Like wise, just because the Leo is shown blowing up alot doesn't mean it is any worse - let's not forget how often Zakus blew up when faced with a Gundam. First let's looks at the particulars of each mobile suit:

MS-06F 'Zaku'
Spoiler:
OZ-06MS 'Leo'
Spoiler:
The two mobile suits are very similar in terms of overall height with the Zaku being little more than a meter taller than the much lighter Leo, granted this difference in weight could be attributed to a veriety of things like the two units being constructed of differing materials (titanium vs steel) or differences in the eras.

Both units utilize similar power plants so power output definitely wont be the determining factor in this battle. Using the 'stat' system employed for Gundam Wing mobile suits we can see that the Leo might actually have an edge over the Zaku in terms of mobility and speed. Under the stat system, 100 being the base/lowest and 170 being the max, the basic Leo hasn't been left behind in any significant manner by any of the Gundams. While it does lose out in most/all fields, the basic leo is usually within 10 to 20 in one or two fields for individual comparisons to each Gundam (the early ones). This is something that can't readily be said of the Zaku, it was usually completely out-classed by the Gundams of it's era and only got to show its stuff against poorly piloted, half functional Gundams (but still lost in the end - poor Bernie).

Let's look at the weapons and just for the sake of completeness, let's assume all optional armaments are present:

Zaku:
- 2 x missle pods
- 1 x 120mm machine gun
- 1 x bazooka
- 1 x heat hawk
- 1 x grenade

Leo:
- 2 x missles*
- 1 x 105mm machine gun
- 1 x beam rifle
- 1 x bazooka
- 1 x dober gun
- 2 x beam sabers
*they're shown being used in the TV series but are not included on the Mahq.net site... how odd.

In terms of number of weapons, the Leo clearly wins, however, simply having more weapons overall isn't an advantage as they can't all be used at once. While the Leo does have more weapons, I believe it is the variety of weapons found that gives it an edge over the Zaku. The Zaku weapon load consists primarily of impact type weapons while the Leo does include a limited selection of beam type weaponry giving it the more well rounded arsonal. The specifics of the individual weapons is not important, in my opinion, as they are similar enough (with the exception of the beam weapons) that individual comparisons are irrelevant.

In terms of appearence... I gotta go with the Leo. The standard Zaku has been a long standing favorite of mine but I must admit I absolutely love the design and look of OZ mobile suits. Forgive me Zaku!

Verdict:

Well I believe it would be a close fight, with both suits being heavily damaged to the point of being near inoperable, I'd have to say I see the Leo winning this contest. Being a bit faster and carrying a more rounded weapon selection gives it the advantage that would be needed to defeat the Zaku.
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Old 2006-06-28, 01:36   Link #62
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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Yeah..all good points...too bad there's no way to really tell overall (especially with either Grunt MS or the prototype MS)
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Old 2006-06-28, 01:36   Link #63
grandmaster192
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I think the Leo would win because of better weapons and it's faster then a Zaku. The Zaku has 2 beam sabers and a sheild so I think it has the advantage in melee combat. It also has the powerful dober gun/bazooka. If you watch the first episode of Wing you will see the Leo in action and what it can realy do.
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Old 2006-06-28, 02:14   Link #64
M_Flores
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
I don't know.....The SF looked pretty damn fast. Almost as fast as the destiny. From what I've seen the SF is just.....perfect! I see no weakness with it. The IJ is a cool/better looking then the SF MS, but I don't think it could beat the SF. especially if Kira is the pilot. I don't see any advantage IJ would have aganist the SF.

But I havn't seen every episode of Seed/Destiny. So you know more than I do.
I haven't seen every episode either, but I've seen most of the episodes involving the MS we're talking about.

SF isn't perfect - at least not in close combat. Don't get me wrong, I am an SF fanboy, its my fav suit, etc. etc. but this is not a thread for me to exploit my fanboism over a mecha, I'm basing my stuff more on hypothesis and predictions of what so and so will do, etc. I would say IJ does have a chance mainly because of it's combat purpose

IJ = one on one
SF = one vs many

The fight between SF and Destiny, although a little short, seemed evenly matched and it 'appeared' though as if Destiny was 'slightly' faster than SF. However, when IJ came out, the pilot was already injured + he was also holding back against Destiny, until the time for talk was over and went SEED, cut Destiny's arm off.

Let's pretend you're in SF for example. What will you do against IJ?
As for me, I'd launch the dragoons (if possible), start taking pot shots at IJ while combining guns or spamming beams at it from different angles. I wouldn't want that thing to get close to me no matter what because the moment it does, it will cut all my guns up, thats why I have a chest cannon in case of those things. I absolutely would NOT want to get into a saberlock with IJ, because that thing will just use it's legs, and if I use the rail cannons, they will be sliced off, and the chest cannon, IJ will have a spare blade to stab, so at all costs, I must not let IJ get close. The backpack will be chasing me around of course, I'll have some dragoons take care of that. However, the backpack could probably survive or dodge attacks and continued to give chase. Once that thing hits, I don't even think my beam shield could withstand a backpack ram collision.
If I keep spamming beams at IJ, sure I'll probably eventually scratch it, but seeing as though I could block beam shots star wars style with my beam saber, the more IJ can block my beam spamming since its got like a million blades. Seems as though I can't win with just simple overpowering beam spamming all over the place. If Destiny and Legend can dodge dragoons, then so can IJ, I bet. Even if I do manage to get a lucky shot against IJ, it still has a beam shield to block it. If IJ does manage to get close, I'd have the combo rifle in on arm and beam sabers on the other. I'd make the dragoons blast at him from behind then shoot the chest cannon or rail guns with a direct hit. The beam shields should also protect against a few blades too.

Let's pretend you're in IJ. What will you do against SF?
Use the backpack, son. That thing is basically one-hit kill against anything. If Legend's beam spike dragoons can do it, then I'm sure as hell that the Fatum-01 can. SF will launch its dragoons at you. But there are only eight of them - Freedom was able to dodge Providence, having 11 dragoons. For now, evade the dragoons, SF will be beam spamming at you all over the place. That's why you use the back pack to sneak behind SF. SF will try to evade, but then you'll be at the other end waiting for it. If it uses the combo rifles, dodge them or block them. You've blocked Destiny's cannon before. You can block the chest cannon as well then. Use the backpack and grappler stinger to bring SF closer. If it tries to attack with the rifle, slice them. Same with the rail cannons. If SF's belly spits at you, use the beam shield to push the blast back into SF like what happened to Calamity in the original SEED. Surely, the dragoons will still be at you. Who cares. By then, you would've chopped most of SF's guns, and the backpack would have closed in from behind anyway. It doesn't matter how fast SF is, if you can corner it with the backpack and the main unit, it'd have no where to run.


My verdict is, the battle could go either way. That's why it would be so interesting to watch. Their strengths and weaknesses basically cancel each other out.
A lot of people go SF straight away because of the promotion/fanservice it gets as well as from its pilot in SEED Destiny - fanboy-minded people like me immediately go SF would win, but now that I took the time to (sorta) analyse both MS's combat options, I had a second thought about IJ having no hope against IJ.
You see, we haven't even really seen IJ used to full potential in SEED Destiny.
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Old 2006-06-28, 03:01   Link #65
grandmaster192
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If I was in the SF the first thing I would do call out the dragoons. Then I would bring out both the beam sabers and go charging at the IJ with my dragoons shooting. I asume the IJ would dodge the Dragoons and come charging with it's double beam saber. Then when we get into a saber lock I would imeadiatly use the rail guns to blow away the IJ beam sabers. Then I asume it would would use the leg beam sabers. When it does I do that back flip slash and cut the IJ's head off. Thats how I see the battle ending up.

From what I've seen the SF is a great MS for melee or ranged attacks. I don't see any weakness it has.
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Old 2006-06-28, 16:14   Link #66
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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I'd say, in general, both suits are evenly matched...it would come down to the pilots themselves most likely.
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"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
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Old 2006-06-28, 16:24   Link #67
J_Ridden
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Quote:
That's why you use the back pack to sneak behind SF. SF will try to evade, but then you'll be at the other end waiting for it.
You've seen the movie Spiderman? You know what happens to the Green Goblin at the end?
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Old 2006-06-28, 20:25   Link #68
JackRydden224
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I think the 06F Zaku vs Leo battle really comes down to the equipment on hand. Leo has access to beam weaponary, the Zaku doesn't. But on the flip side the Zaku Bazooka is perfectly capable of firing nuclear rounds (from the HGUC MS igloo Zaku II manual)
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:16   Link #69
RX-93 HI-NU
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Hi-Nu vs. Victory 2 Assault-Buster
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:32   Link #70
zetra
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I think victory for V2 AS because of its fullweapon sets on its body.
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:44   Link #71
M_Flores
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Greatness
If I was in the SF the first thing I would do call out the dragoons. Then I would bring out both the beam sabers and go charging at the IJ with my dragoons shooting. I asume the IJ would dodge the Dragoons and come charging with it's double beam saber. Then when we get into a saber lock I would imeadiatly use the rail guns to blow away the IJ beam sabers. Then I asume it would would use the leg beam sabers. When it does I do that back flip slash and cut the IJ's head off. Thats how I see the battle ending up.

From what I've seen the SF is a great MS for melee or ranged attacks. I don't see any weakness it has.
Don't assume the IJ will just sit there and do nothing. While you aim the rail cannons, it wouldn't even take half a second for IJ to kick slash them off.
While you are also in the saber lock, don't forget that the backpack is coming right behind you as well.

'A great MS for melee', well yeah, sure but that's cause the pilot made it great. But let's face it, the only thing SF has for melee are the beam sabers (or perhaps the beam shields too). Even Destiny has more melee weapons than SF. IJ is a greater MS for melee and I'd say that is now a fact.

And when you do this 'backflip slash' - did u expect IJ to just sit there and take it?
IJ has the Fortis cannons to maim the SF while trying to do a stunt like that. And the backpack is still on your tail. Yeah, I know the dragoons are still firing, but just like SF, the IJ can also dodge.

As much as I want SF to win, let's face it, let's not get mecha fanboyism play the role in the battle. Rather, let's take into account every possibility of how each move is countered.
The Dragoons would cause problems for IJ, no doubt, but they're not GameShark. The rifles, though I'd rely on them taking shots at IJ, they could still be dodged and blocked.

SF is cool and all, and no doubt it can kill more grunt MS faster than IJ can, but when it comes to one on one boss fights, that part goes to IJ.




__________________________________________________ __________



Hi-Nu Vs V2 Assault Buster?


I'd say V2's got this. Due to the VSBR technology and Wings of Light. IMO, V2 is by far the fastest Gundam. But they say the Assault Buster is slower than the normal V2?
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:45   Link #72
zetra
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of course because of the weapons, right??
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:55   Link #73
M_Flores
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetra
of course because of the weapons, right??
Yeah, but either way, I was assuming V2AB can still use wings of light, which is still damn fast.
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Old 2006-06-28, 21:59   Link #74
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Flores
'A great MS for melee', well yeah, sure but that's cause the pilot made it great. But let's face it, the only thing SF has for melee are the beam sabers (or perhaps the beam shields too). Even Destiny has more melee weapons than SF. IJ is a greater MS for melee and I'd say that is now a fact.
The difference is whereas Destiny has nothing much except for its speed to try to keep the fight from being a close combat fight, Strike Freedom actually is capable of keeping the fight into a medium range combat with a combination of both its DRAGOONs and fixed armaments.

So the way I see it, if both pilots are skilled enough the bring out the full potential of each mobile suits, on Earth Infinite Justice would have the advantage but in space Strike Freedom will win.
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Old 2006-06-28, 22:03   Link #75
zetra
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How about Murasame vs Z plus???
Or Zaku vs Zaku w.??
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Old 2006-06-28, 22:14   Link #76
M_Flores
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As opposed to the ∞ Justice Vs Epyon earlier, has anyone asked about a Strike Freedom Vs Wing Zero yet?
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Old 2006-06-28, 22:20   Link #77
zetra
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I don't know.
If SF vs W0... I think SF will win the fight because it has more weapons than W0 that only has Buster rufle, vulcan, beam saber. SF has 2 rifle, beam saber, vulcan, super dragoon, xiphias 3, and I forgot 1 in its stomach and a ps system. That makes it.
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Old 2006-06-28, 22:31   Link #78
M_Flores
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetra
I don't know.
If SF vs W0... I think SF will win the fight because it has more weapons than W0 that only has Buster rufle, vulcan, beam saber. SF has 2 rifle, beam saber, vulcan, super dragoon, xiphias 3, and I forgot 1 in its stomach and a ps system. That makes it.
Let's not forget that the armor in Wing is BS.
W0 is easily lighter than SF, we've seen W0 withstand great deal of beam attacks without getting scratched, and W0 is at least as fast as they come.
SF's weight is probably made up for by it's high power output, which probably gives it better thruster output too so it can be also as fast as they come.

Considering Gundanium alloy's toughness, the xiphias 3 and beam rifles would be somewhat useless, and with the huge, wide blast of the TBR, it could probably take down a few dragoons. The only potential threat to W0 would be the chest cannon, combo rifles and of course, SF's beam sabers.

However, I'd say SF still wins - but sure as hell not by a long shot.
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Old 2006-06-28, 22:56   Link #79
Silent Soldier
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The thing that I loved about Gundanium alloy is the Gundams in wing just basically stood there they didn't even have to dodge when the leos shot at them sometimes you would even see the pilots had there eyes closed while they were fighting it was ridiculous even the mobile suit's own self detonation did not completely destroy it. At least mobile suits like the Strike Freedom have to dodge they are not invincibel. As to the Strike Freedom vs Wing Zero my money's on the Strike Freedom I think it would be a very difficult and close match but I think that if Strike Freedom can get rid of the buster rifle problem and get the draggons to do some good hits then follow up with the rifle/chest cannon combo it would be able to win.
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Old 2006-06-29, 02:45   Link #80
grandmaster192
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Wing Zero vs Strike Freedom.

It depends on pilot.
I think the Wing Zero could win. IF the SF even thinks about binging out the dragoons the Wing Zero will destroy them all in one shot. There is no way they could survive or dodge the twin buster rifle. The SF's beam guns would be useless. The Wing Zero could take any thing the SF shoots at him.

However, The SF is fast. The Wing Zero would be able to shoot the SF down. I've never seen the twin buster rifle hit a unit that had a great pilot. Zechs was making the Twin Buster Riffle seem useless. I think the SF would do the same.

The only way I can see the Wing Zero beating the SF is in a beam saber match. The SF's only way of hurting the Wing Zero is with the beam sabers. I say it would all come down to a beam saber fight. And the best pilot would win. If Heero is in the W0 the SF would win. If Zechs is in the W0 I say the Wing Zero would win.
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