AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-06-29, 10:41   Link #81
Zero system
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
@M_Flores: concerning the SF vs IJ fight you described, you were saying that while IJ dodged the dragoons, it would send the backpack at the SF

however i dont see how one could manage that, it takes quite a lot of concentration to be able to evade dragoons and it is very difficult to attack while dodging so many beams from different directions.

even kira could not do both at the same time aginst raw and rey, he had to wait for an opening while the dragoons were not in full blast.
so i dont see how athrun, a pilot on the same level as kira, could manage to evade and send a remotely controled wepon to attack SF

also the high maneuverability and speed of IJ comes from the additional thrusters on his backpack, without his backpack IJ would be a relatively slow ms comared to SF and would have a hard time dodging the dragoons (and not without at least minor damage)

other than that (and it has already been said) IJ and SF's abilities are complementary and it would be difficult to predict the winner

i'll have to quote Dr. J on that: "ultimately the one with the better pilot will win"
Zero system is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 13:18   Link #82
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Whoosh!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Albany
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via MSN to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via Yahoo to RX-78GP04G Gerbera
reply

My end point...

Strike Freedom vs. Infinite Justice, both with equal level pilots, would result in a draw. Infinite Justice would manage to break past the DRAGOONs and get into melee combat where it has an advantage, but then while it's bashing Strike Freedom up close, it'd get bashed by the DRAGOONs or up-close firing of the Strike Freedom and both suits will, eventually, get trashed. lol

Hi-Nu Gundam vs. V2 Assault-Buster I'd have to say the V2 would eventually end up winning...I mean..it's smaller, mega beam cannon, mega beam rifle, 2 beam shields, mega beam shield, I-Field, 2 VSBRs, multi-launchers, vulcans, Wings of Light and anti-beam coating and, compared to the Hi-Nu, still probably faster...(it'd help if there was an actual number to go by for the 2).

Wing Gundam Zero vs. Strike Freedom I'd have to say Wing Gundam Zero if it's being piloted by a Main Character of Gundam Wing...given the whole "invincible-when-piloted-by-main-or-important-character" factor in Gundam Wing.

Any other answers for mine??? lol
__________________
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
RX-78GP04G Gerbera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 13:21   Link #83
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
However the dragoons will be shot down eventually - Kira managed this, Athrun can do it also if we asume hes in IJ and Kira is in SF ... Using Athrun as pilot would require for SF to use Kira or else the difference in pilot abilities would make Athrun a winner by default. Besides dont forget that to use DRAGOONS you need somewhat newtype abilities so Kira is actually the only one suitable from CE universe for this. ( Raww and Mwu might be also, but since i think its safe to say that Athrun > Raww / Mwu there is no point in using them )

This result is indeed hard to predict.... it would probably end with a draw - just like the Aegis vs Strike fight ( Altho i think Athrun won that one - Kira survived because of 2x plot device - Aegis running out of power 0.00001s before finishing shot could be made and after that survivng the explosion ) ... I really think they would just beat each others MS to a bloody pulp where noone of them is capable of attacking, then they both would cry a bit and shake hands in the end...... yes, i know its lame

But if i would have to put my money on someone of these 2, my money would be on IJ/Athrun - Its much superior to SF in Melee, and Supremacy in range that SF has doesnt have much of a use against pilots like Athrun and co - face it, almost all the kills against named pilots are made in melee - because they simply dodge and block almost all the ranged attacks. (with few exceptions , for example when Rey goes ZOMG, my life is my own.... freezes in place and gets beemspammed )

Since in terms of skill Kira = Athrun and Kira could dodge Legends DRAGOONS it shouldnt be too hard for Ahrun to dodge SF DRAGOONS and eventually take them down and then engage in melee combat where he reigns supreme. But this could go either way due to the 1337 moves both of these pilots can pull off, but my money would be on IJ.

Either that or they fight an even match where the first one to die from hunger loses
__________________
Skyfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 13:24   Link #84
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Wing Gundam Zero vs. Strike Freedom I'd have to say Wing Gundam Zero if it's being piloted by a Main Character of Gundam Wing...given the whole "invincible-when-piloted-by-main-or-important-character" factor in Gundam Wing.
Not really fair you cant use Main char for one MS and not for other - i think its safe to say that a main character in zakku could pwn a grunt in a gundam (aside from Lunamaria maybe )
__________________
Skyfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 18:08   Link #85
Zero system
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
Athrun > Raww
I strongly disagree with that statement

as for SF vs W0

it realy is a tough one to juge as those 2 suits are almost identical

the dragoons are totaly useles cause if they are deployed W0 will detach his tbr and swoop them all with his death swirl

SF has 2 beam rifles / W0 has 2 buster rifles (which can be used as regular beam rifle since it has variable output (smal fast beam and gigantic destruction beam)

SF has hip mounted rail gun / W0 has shoulder mounted vulcan (they are not realy the same but they are both equaly uneffective against the other and can be used the same way so i count them as equal)

SF has chest cannon / W0 has tbr (which gives W0 the advantage)

SF has beam sabers that can be combined / W0 has 2 beam sabers that cant combine (advantage to SF)

SF has 2 beam shields that, from what we've seen cannot be used for offence / W0 has 1 matter shield with piledriver nose (that probably somone will find some yous for the piledriver option)

SF has 8 dragoons / W0 can bust them all with the death swirl

both suits have extreme speed and maneuverability (in their respective series they are both the second fastest)

but as it is a comparaison of the suits only (no pilot involved) the tiebreaker is the ZERO system for the W0
Zero system is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 18:39   Link #86
shaolo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
SF has beam sabers that can be combined / W0 has 2 beam sabers that cant combine (advantage to SF)
And how is combining two beam sabers is an advantage in an one on one fight?
shaolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 18:55   Link #87
Zero system
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolo
And how is combining two beam sabers is an advantage in an one on one fight?

for the person being attacked, it is harder to predict from where the saber will hit when it has 2 blades, this is why athrun always used them combined

it is only a small advantage but it is still worth being mentioned
Zero system is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 19:35   Link #88
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
SF has 8 dragoons / W0 can bust them all with the death swirl
I don't really understand what you mean by this since it's been a long time since I've seen Wing. Now while I do remember the twin buster rifle having a large range, I don't remember it covering more than about a 90 degree perspective of Wing Zero, maybe even less than that. So while Wing Zero may turn to cover more area, all it takes is one well placed shot from either one of the DRAGOONs or from Strike Freedom itself to destroy the twin buster rifle. Sure a lot of the DRAGOONs may be destroyed in the process, but if the twin buster rifle is taken out, all Wing Zero has left really as effective offensive weapons against Strike Freedom are the beam sabers.
monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 20:32   Link #89
shaolo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
for the person being attacked, it is harder to predict from where the saber will hit when it has 2 blades, this is why athrun always used them combined

it is only a small advantage but it is still worth being mentioned
IMO combine two beam saber is no different than a single beam saber. At least with two saber with each hand, a person can attack or defend in two direction.
shaolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 22:49   Link #90
Zero system
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
I don't really understand what you mean by this since it's been a long time since I've seen Wing. Now while I do remember the twin buster rifle having a large range, I don't remember it covering more than about a 90 degree perspective of Wing Zero, maybe even less than that. So while Wing Zero may turn to cover more area, all it takes is one well placed shot from either one of the DRAGOONs or from Strike Freedom itself to destroy the twin buster rifle. Sure a lot of the DRAGOONs may be destroyed in the process, but if the twin buster rifle is taken out, all Wing Zero has left really as effective offensive weapons against Strike Freedom are the beam sabers.

watch episode 24 or 25 and you will see that it prety much covers an area of 360 degre in all directions.

while it is true that this is not an absolute technique to whipe out all the dragoons all the time, it is a fast and effective way to eliminate 5-6 of the 8 dragoons (all the time) and maybe 7-8 if you get lucky or the other guy isnt kira.

dont forget that the ZERO system is constantly calculating the positions of the dragoons and estimating the direction of the beem so it is a lot easier to dodge them
Zero system is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-29, 22:50   Link #91
M_Flores
Count of Monte Dorifto
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto
Send a message via MSN to M_Flores
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
@M_Flores: also the high maneuverability and speed of IJ comes from the additional thrusters on his backpack, without his backpack IJ would be a relatively slow ms comared to SF and would have a hard time dodging the dragoons (and not without at least minor damage)
However, without the backpack, much of the weight is lost and the main IJ unit should be considerably lighter (and according to Honda's concept, lighter = faster, lol ) But yeah, I'd have to say that the whole SF vs IJ idea would be a stalemate - which is why I'd really look forward to seeing a match like that. Every arguement about it always has another that can argue further. Too bad we can only see SF Vs IJ in games. I am impressed with all the reasoning these people came up with though.



As for W0 Vs SF, things to consider:

*The Zero System may really make a difference, more to the extent that it might predict where the dragoons might come from.

*Gundam Wing's incredibly cheap and BS armor. Let's not forget this. In SEED, a simple beam blast can take off an arm or leg in one shot. We've seen Wing 0 be bombared with everything and leave without a scratch. So there will be weapons of SF that might appear useless against Wing 0. It's hard to tell from the different universes.

*With PS armor on, Wing 0's machine cannons and piledriver nose are immediately useless. (well the piledriver can still be used to hit, but oh well)

*Combining beam sabers may/may not give an advantage in combat - its basically a change in fighting style. Although there is an extra blade on the other tip of the saber, it also kinda limits the movement of different angles one could do with a single saber. So it might also be a disadvantage. But as for this fight, it'd most likely be an advantage. (We've seen how quickly Freedom got rid of Providence's arms by a simple movement of the dual saber).

*As for raw mecha strength, SF easily overpowers Wing 0 in the case of a saberlock, arm wrestle, etc. since it clearly has a higher power output and is also heavier.

How Wing 0 would win - like everyone said, beam sabers, really. I'm betting most likely that the TBR would always be dodged or blocked by the beam shields of SF. It could do that death swirl thing with the TBR to laugh at the dragoons like fly spray. The Zero System is also a factor in this fight - surely the pilot won't be affected by Kira's sweet talk. It could probably be used to predict SF's movements and work out a battle strategy and if that fails, it will work out another, after another, after another until it leads to victory. If Wing 0 somehow manages to go point blank with the TBR against SF, its not gonna be a pretty day for SEED fans.

How SF would win - Take the TBR away, Wing 0's primary weapon is the first step. If Wing 0 does its beam spamming thing, the dragoons should be manuevarable enough to dodge. A few of them will probably be lost in the process, but a few pot shots at the TBR or Wing's hand may do. However, knowing the Wing 0, it will tuck the TBR on it's left hand where the shield is placed as we've seen Heero do many times which will cause even more problems to get rid of the rifle. Weapons such as the chest cannon and combo rifles could be used to annoy Wing 0. It's armor may be strong, but eventually, just like in Endless Waltz, Wing 0 was weakened by simple gatling gun and missle fire. So beam weapons of SF will eventually bring some light. Once the TBR is taken away, SF could either go sabering with it, or just fool around with it until Wing 0 runs out of ammo, and beam saber runs out of power like it did in the last episode. All the SF has to do is keep away because Wing 0 is now about to self detonate.
M_Flores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-30, 00:58   Link #92
Colonel-
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ca
Send a message via AIM to Colonel-
I'm dying to see this ^^

V2 (plus any addon packs) vs Destiny!
Colonel- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-30, 01:12   Link #93
M_Flores
Count of Monte Dorifto
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto
Send a message via MSN to M_Flores
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel-
I'm dying to see this ^^

V2 (plus any addon packs) vs Destiny!
V2 will win. You said plus any add on packs, well V2 will win easily with the VSBR. V2 has the real wings of light, so it shouldnt have any problem keeping up with Destiny, which has NO means of blocking the VSBR.
Wings of Light is HUGE compared to Destiny's butterfly wings. I'm talking about kilometre-huge. And it can actually damage stuff, so V2 has got this.



How about F91 Vs Destiny?
M_Flores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-30, 11:54   Link #94
Colonel-
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ca
Send a message via AIM to Colonel-
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Flores
V2 will win. You said plus any add on packs, well V2 will win easily with the VSBR. V2 has the real wings of light, so it shouldnt have any problem keeping up with Destiny, which has NO means of blocking the VSBR.
Wings of Light is HUGE compared to Destiny's butterfly wings. I'm talking about kilometre-huge. And it can actually damage stuff, so V2 has got this.



How about F91 Vs Destiny?


F-91 hands down. Bio-computer, VSBR, plus the "God Mode" after image move would own Destiny in 3 seconds.
Colonel- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-06-30, 13:10   Link #95
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Whoosh!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Albany
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via MSN to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via Yahoo to RX-78GP04G Gerbera
reply

I think mine are being ignored..x_x;;
__________________
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
RX-78GP04G Gerbera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-01, 03:00   Link #96
Mr_Paper
Hmm...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
You allowed them too much freedom. ^^:

I'm picking and choosing which I'll do...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera
5. XXXG-01H2 Gundam Heavyarms Kai (OVA version) vs. GT-9600-D Gundam Leopard Destroy.

Both heavy-weapons Gundams not really suited too much else besides artillery. Both have A LOT of guns/missiles on them and, well, both are red and white!!
An interesting pair of mobile suits to put against each other. The key theme with both is overwhelming firepower so that will not be the determining factor between the two. However, as it is the key feature of both mobile suits, comparing weapon seletion and numbers could be an interesting diversion...

GT-9600-D 'Leopard Destroy'
Spoiler:
XXXG-01H2 'Heavyarms Kai'
Spoiler:
Leopard Destroy:
- 2 x beam gatling
-
2 x gatling gun
-
13 x missile
- 7 x beam cannon
- 1 x 2-barrel beam cannon
- 1 x beam knife
- 1 x heat axe

Heavyarms Kai:
-
2 x vulcan gun
-
2 x machine cannon
-
4 x Gatling gun
-
4 x 9-tube homing missile launcher
- 2 x 22-tube micromissile launcher system
-
2 x 4-tube micromissile launcher
- 2 x double gatling gun
*a total of 88 missles...

While the weapon list for each suit is impressive they aren't exactly equal. The Leopard Destroy caries a large number of beam type weapons which, when compared to the more traditional impact types of the Heavyarms Kai, would seem to give it an obvious advantage. In response to this the Heavyamrs Kai features more than triple the number of weapons of the Leopard Destroy, overcoming the handicap of lacking beam type weapons with all round target pounding power.

With both mobile suits being similar in both weight and height, there is no real advantage in this area for either mobile suit so I'll be moving on. The only real deciding area to compare these two mobile suits in is in terms of mobility (oddly, it seems to come down to this quite often); while both suit possess massive firepower neither is going to remain perfectly stationary and just take a beating from the other. In both the mobile suit's respective eras they are shown to be quite mobile, however, there is a large difference between the two in temrs of mobility. The Leopard Destroy is shown being able to run and fire at the same time while the Heavyarms Kai (remember, by canon it is the same MS used in the TV series) was shown being able to stand its ground in a battle with the highly mobileTallgeese - running, jumping and boosting about while firing - leading one to state that it is much more mobile than the Leopard Destroy.

In terms, the Heavyarms takes the point for this one. Like most designs from Wing, I absolutely love them. Unfortunately, while the Leopard Destroy is a great functional design, it has always looked large and boxy to me.

Verdict:

It would certainly be an entertaining battle and should it take place in a city, I'm sure not much of it would be left standing. I would have to say, I see this match going to the Heavyarms Kai over the Leopard Destroy. Although the Leopard Destroy has better weapons in general the far greater mobility of the Heaveryams Kai would make it an exceedingly difficult target to hit compared to the Leopard Destroy.
Mr_Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-01, 03:03   Link #97
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Whoosh!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Albany
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via MSN to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via Yahoo to RX-78GP04G Gerbera
reply

If I were the Leopard Destroy pilot, I'd just move around fast while only taking a few potshots and, depending on the pilot, let them fire until they run out of ammo...then they're all mine!!! Muahahahaha!!!! (no evil smiley << >> lol)
__________________
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
RX-78GP04G Gerbera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-01, 07:05   Link #98
M_Flores
Count of Monte Dorifto
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto
Send a message via MSN to M_Flores
As opposed to my Strike Freedom Vs ∞ Justice earlier, I've been wondering what really makes Destiny to be considered as "ZAFT's most powerful Gundam?"
So I was thinking, has this been asked:

ZGMF-X42S 'Destiny' Gundam

VS

ZGMF-X666S 'Legend' Gundam

?
M_Flores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-01, 08:00   Link #99
NeonZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
In response to this the Heavyamrs Kai features more than triple the number of weapons of the Leopard Destroy, overcoming the handicap of lacking beam type weapons with all round target pounding power.
Don't you mean more than triple the number of micro missiles? That's the only real advantage of the Heavyarms, as far as weapons go.

Quote:
Heavyarms Kai (remember, by canon it is the same MS used in the TV series) was shown being able to stand its ground in a battle with the highly mobileTallgeese - running, jumping and boosting about while firing - leading one to state that it is much more mobile than the Leopard Destroy.
It's been a while since I watched that battle, but I do remember that Heero was piloting the Heavyarms during that match, and he wasn't firing nearly as much as usual, and he was even using a beam saber...I'd also note that it wasn't the Heavyarms Kai, it was the original one, which was lighter than the Kai.

You don't even need to use the tv series to see Heavyarm's agility, just look at that Heavyarm's jump in Endless Waltz... However, he never fired during maneuvers like that one.
NeonZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-01, 08:56   Link #100
yamikage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nowhere...
Good idea with focusing on just one vs match-up, Mr_Paper.

The Gundanium armor will make sure the Heavyarms can withstand a few hits from the the Leopard's shell gatlings and missiles. Also, I've heard from somewhere the Heavyarms' bullets are Gundanium-tipped, so the I'd say that Heavyarms shell gatlings are nearly as powerful as the Leopard's. I'd like to mention that Trowa's extremely accurate with those gatling cannons, which we all know have horrible recoil. iirc, he actually went around headshotting all those Serpents!

If they both run out of bullets, the advantage is with the Leopard simply because the Heavyarms lack melee weapons.

So overall, I'm also going with the Heavyarms.
yamikage is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.