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Old 2006-11-09, 18:08   Link #161
Lebron
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Nintendo should push back Mario and probably Metroid to late '07, to help them hold their own against 360s and PS3s lineup. I would add SSBM to that delay list aswell, but I think to many Fans would be pissed if they pushed that back to late '07. Hopefully they have a couple of new IPs to show off at E3 that will turn some heads, aswell.


Well I think this has been derailed enough sooo, there are some new Wii vids up on Gametrailers. Showing off the controls and future games and what not. Worth checking out,

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1656
http://www.gametrailers.com/index.php?p=rev
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Last edited by Lebron; 2006-11-09 at 18:21.
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Old 2006-11-09, 22:52   Link #162
Urzu 7
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I don't think they need to delay any games for the last quarter of 2007 (as if they would). One thing they seem to be changing is getting more support for Wii than GCN. They have said one thing they realize is that an important part of getting a good, firm installed base is having the first year of the console on shelf complemented with a steady flow of quality titles and big titles. They have that second part, so far, with Zelda, Mario, SSBB, Metroid, Sonic, and Fire Emblem for early to mid 2007. I think they have big titles planned for the latter half of 2007.
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Old 2006-11-10, 00:12   Link #163
Lebron
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They better have something big planned out, hopefully. I mean MGS4, GTA4, and Halo 3 are all schduled for Fall 07 releases. All 3 of those are bonafide system sellers in their own rights, and will all sell like hot cakes upon their release. So yea hopefully they have something up their sleeves.


Just have to wait and see what they got planned come this E3 in July
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Last edited by Lebron; 2006-11-10 at 01:25.
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Old 2006-11-10, 17:00   Link #164
Sety
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit View Post
The Wii is still too kid-oriented to win in the long run. Just take a look at the launch list.
Red Steel, Call of Duty 3, Splinter Cell and Farcry all ask you "what the hell are you talking about."
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Old 2006-11-10, 20:27   Link #165
Radd
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Additionally,

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.S. Lewis
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
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Old 2006-11-10, 21:19   Link #166
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o.o

lol i wanna get wii now =D
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Old 2006-11-10, 22:49   Link #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radd View Post
Additionally,

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.S. Lewis
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
well said.



C.S. Lewis is definitely a Nintendo man.

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Old 2006-11-10, 22:50   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Dioxide View Post
lol i wanna get wii now =D
OMG WTH do you want to get it now. Just because of what we said I hate you so much right now its not even funny. Your just getting a Wii because of the games not because of nintendo fan BOYS / Hunter Nin like me and the others who would kill anyone that nintendo asked us to kill. I hate people like you.
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Old 2006-11-10, 22:54   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Taraqs View Post
OMG WTH do you want to get it now. Just because of what we said I hate you so much right now its not even funny. Your just getting a Wii because of the games not because of nintendo fan BOYS / Hunter Nin like me and the others who would kill anyone that nintendo asked us to kill. I hate people like you.
lolololol

Sarcasm overdrive. XD

Besides, it's Mecha nintendo ninja to all you infidels
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Old 2006-11-10, 22:58   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
lolololol

Sarcasm overdrive. XD

Besides, it's Mecha nintendo ninja to all you infidels
I don't remember the last time you did a mission for nintendo?
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Old 2006-11-11, 05:15   Link #171
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Old 2006-11-11, 19:06   Link #172
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Wii has some killer potential... I hope Nintendo realise just the kind of machine they have created and fully deliver. Let's look further into it:

It plays Wii games which use a new and interesting method of control. I'll be playing stuff like Wii sports which I would normally have had no interest in. As Nintendo suggest, I can also get my parents playing because the control style is both simple for some games (where they aim for a universal audience like Wii Sports) and more than adequate for more complex games like Zelda or Red Steel.
I'm buying this primarily for the Wii games after being out of gaming for 6 years (the same time I got into anime and encoding); but there is more.

It plays Gamecube games. Flawlessly I might add (as you'd expect); with the original pads and memory cards, so you can migrate from Gamecube to Wii effortlessly and not lose anything. The loading mechanism is also very clever, it doesn't get fooled wherever you insert the Gamecube discs. Since I completely missed out on the Gamecube era (and I feel ashamed at all the great games I missed), I may well just buy some Gamecube games as well and catch up on lost time.

It plays Nintendo 64 games. It also plays NES, SNES, MegaDrive (Genesis), TurboGrafx-16 and (as suggested by Wiki) Commodore 64 and MSX games.
Not only will you have some of the greatest games ever for Wii, not only will you have some of the greatest games ever for Gamecube, but you can also enjoy some of the greatest games ever for these older systems. Mario Bros, Super Mario World, Street Fighter 2, Streets of Rage, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mario 64, Zelda Ocarina of Time; the list is endless. So many classics on one system. Sure I own a decent number of these games, but being able to play these on my Wii (when it arrives) means I can finally retire my SNES, MegaDrive and N64. Even as I progressed to N64, I was never been able to bring myself to put them in the attic.

Yes, they are still hooked up and yes, in the run up to Wii the N64 has had quite a lot of play time on Perfect Dark and Smash Bros recently. The SNES and MegaDrive just sit collecting dust in the rare event I have free time to play, and change the AC adaptors round for a quick blast. Although you can't beat playing it on the real thing (emulation via a PC is great, but it's just not the same as playing it on a console), I think the Wii will come close enough second for me. Believe it or not, it's not so out of the question to bust out World Cup Italia '90 for old times sake, so it could see some more reminiscent play.

The Virtual Console will be a big one for me. I've played SNES via emu for years using a PS2 Dual Shock pad; but it would be nice to play it on a small quiet machine rather than having my encoding rig with 6 HD's spinning. I had sometimes thought about building a semi-decent mini-itx for the sole purpose of retro gaming.

It's been said before, but good games should never be forgotten.

Then there is the photochannel. We aren't expecting this to be the killer app that sends Wii's flying off the shelves, but it's a nice side feature that had my camera used SD cards (uses XD picture cards); I could see myself using.

The Miis are pretty fun, I guess you can use them to store all your preferences and gaming stats. Nice little feature, and it's pretty neat to be able to make your Mii (and poke fun at your siblings) and pull them into a game like Wii Sports for a thrashing.

I'm not banking on the Opera browser, but it will be handy for quick browsing (checking emails or forums) without having to power on my PC. As it happens I do have a mini-itx that is up pretty much 24/7, but not everyone does. I can still see myself browsing via the Wii.

Updates and free online play will be new and interesting for me. I always find playing against a computer doesn't match playing against a human, and that applies whether they are in the same room or the other side of the globe. I don't claim to be the best player ever, but of the people I've played 2 player with (ie in the same room), I don't recall anyone consistantly beating me at Street Fighter. I took it online with SNES9k and had my ass kicked the first few times. It was great to be presented with a challenge (and good players) rather than a computer opponent who isn't really harder, they just inflict more damage per hit than you (or on the other hand, a casual gamer who is about average).

I can't see myself using the News and Weather channels, my time will be spent playing games. I read the newspaper at work on my break when there is nothing better to do (and to be honest, it's mostly gossipy shit about celebrities than real news). As for the weather... Come on... I live in England(!).

Using SD cards for memory cards is a nice touch. I've grabbed a 150x 4GB Samsung card which ough to keep me going... forever? I expect to be hitting VC games quite regularly, so it's nice to have them on one card.


Nintendo's recipe for success would be to get the 3rd party developers. Perhaps lower the VC prices too so they are more attractive to casual gamers. Other than that, Nintendo has done a solid job this time round, they have a sweet release line up, some nice features and something thats very different in terms of control.

Remember when the switch from 2D to 3D was happening? If I remember rightly, that's when the term "next gen" was properly coined and used on a large scale. No one really talked about next gen in the 2D days, they talked about how many bits the next console will have. Next gen could be seen in gameplay terms rather than hardware. Something significantly different from what you are currently playing could be called next gen. Think Mario World > Mario 64. It's totally new, totally different. A next generation game (of it's time). Now we have motion sensing controller used on a default basis (motion sensing has been used before, but it was never anything big). The Gamecube wasn't next gen. Neither was the PS2; it's just the same games with more polygons. Visually better yes, but significantly different? No.

Did you pick up these titles and think "Wow, this is something I've never seen before"? I sure as hell did when I played Mario 64, but my sister has a GameCube, and I think "Yeah, it looks better, but it's not new to me"

For me the Wii remote and nunchuk system is totally new and interesting. At first it seems a little offputting, but to come up with a bizarre system like this; well you know a lot of thought has gone into it.

Controlling games this way will be the same sort of leap I felt when I went from 2D Mario to 3D Mario. I just can't wait. This is the first time in 10 or 11 years that I've been excited about a games console. The last time was in the run up to N64.
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Old 2006-11-11, 19:28   Link #173
Lebron
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Woah, Zero1, someone been doing his homework Great post, even doh I skimmed here and there.
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Old 2006-11-12, 05:52   Link #174
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ill probably get a WII before next year. but i am still upset over the short lived GC era. i am still waiting for my animal crossing 2. i am still very upset about the zelda issue.

next gen does not always have to mean pretty eye candy. i dont particularly care for 3D. but the depth of the games, save features, online play, etc etc. that is what defines next gen for me compared to the NES days.

samba de amigo controllers and DDR pads were next gen. the GC nintendo RF controller is next gen technology
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Old 2006-11-12, 06:19   Link #175
Sety
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatochobit View Post
ill probably get a WII before next year. but i am still upset over the short lived GC era. i am still waiting for my animal crossing 2. i am still very upset about the zelda issue.

next gen does not always have to mean pretty eye candy. i dont particularly care for 3D. but the depth of the games, save features, online play, etc etc. that is what defines next gen for me compared to the NES days.

samba de amigo controllers and DDR pads were next gen. the GC nintendo RF controller is next gen technology
However when you consider Wii supports full backwards compatibility with GCN then I guess GC's short lived era isn't as bitter.
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Old 2006-11-12, 08:51   Link #176
Sides
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Originally Posted by Zero1 View Post
Using SD cards for memory cards is a nice touch. I've grabbed a 150x 4GB Samsung card which ough to keep me going... forever? I expect to be hitting VC games quite regularly, so it's nice to have them on one card.
I'm not going to frightening you, but SD cards are limited to 2GB,
unless it is marked as sdhc (aka sd v2.0).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatochobit View Post
ill probably get a WII before next year. but i am still upset over the short lived GC era.
The cube has been around now for 5 years,
that is the normal life expectancy of a home console.
So it wasn't/isn't short, if you include zelda as it last nintendo game.
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Old 2006-11-12, 10:17   Link #177
Radd
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5 years is hardly a short lived era. That's average for the life of a console.

About third party support being a recipe for success, that's the tail wagging the dog. The recipe for success is everything that gains a console third party support.

The NES recipe for success was being largely competition free for the start of its life, followed by the tough deals Nintendo had bullied onto developers to keep them with the NES later on. The widespread market saturation of the NES guaranteed it strong support even with the coming of the Master System and then the Genesis.

The SNES road on the coattails of the NES. It had far superior graphics to the Genesis, and much better sound as well. However, the Genesis had a large head start, but Nintendo's contractual muscle and heavy handed approach to developers kept strong titles in line for the SNES, winning most gamers over with a combination of graphics, sound, and continuations of beloved franchises like Final Fantasy. Yes, it also introduced a superior gamepad, but you'd be hard pressed to find people who would admit this until much later in the console's life. At first gamers balked at "too many buttons".

The PSX had a lot going for it as well, which would lead to developers hopping on board, handing Sony the console crown. It was much cheaper than the Sega Saturn, and could produce better looking 3D graphics than Sega's system. The Genesis could do 2D far superior, and 2D games were still overall much better than early 3D games, but 3D was shiney and new, and Sega failed to market its 2D muscle in the west. Sega was also divided, the Japanese and American branches having a disgraceful fallout. The American branch insisted on putting out the 32X, which really hurt their credibility in the west.

The larger storage capacity and lower developer cost for the CD format, as well as the PS1's head start and early lead, gave Sony a huge advantage over the latecomer N64. Also, Sony was much nicer to developers, giving them better deals and more freedom. Until later in their life, when already popular with the market Sony could afford to be tougher, and less forgiving with developers, which leads us to...

The PS2 road on the coattails of the PSX/1. The popularity of Sony's first console, along with pre-release hype the likes of which had not been seen before. The PS2 was relatively inexpensive, yet promised far superior visuals to the prematurely released Dreamcast (release a console TOO early and it hurts rather than helps) FMV was weaved in with pumped up tech demos, giving the impression that the PS2 would be capable of movie quality graphics. Still sore from Sega's infighting, the 32X, and the lackluster showing of the Saturn, many gamers held off from the Dreamcast and went in droves to get the PS2, which also promised DVD playback capability at a time when the DVD format was already guaranteed its place as the video format of choice, but players were still on the pricey side.

By the time the PS2 was found to be lacking in the promised graphics, and just finally surpassing the Dreamcast in visual quality, it was so saturated into the market that the Gamecube and Xbox were miles behind in the race, and would have to do really well very quickly to close the lead. It did not help that Sony actively downplayed the graphics of the two systems, there are people who still believe the PS2 can do better graphics than the Gamecube, despite the proof of their own two eyes. The Xbox found itself competing against the very instilled sense of distrust many hold against Microsoft, and nearly unanimous rejection by the Japanese market. Sony also managed to keep many franchises on their console through strongarmed exclusivity contracts and similar tactics to those Nintendo used back in the NES/SNES days. These same tactics Nintendo finally began to drop as they realized that their position no longer gave them the neccessary leverage.


Put simply, developer support will quickly go to the console with the most market saturation. In times where a large market dominance is not guaranteed, developers will spread themselves more evenly, since the consoles not enjoying market domination are usually much friendlier to developers and willing to do more to get them onboard.

It will be interesting to see how all the factors play out this time around. History says that Nintendo and Microsoft could do much better this time around. Sony enjoys the brand loyalty of two generations, plus some very popular franchises. However, pricewise? Will gamers support the move to consoles that cost almost as much as a PC? The DVD analogy also does not suit BluRay, since BluRay is not in as good a position as DVD was when the PS2 hit the market. It's still heads up between BluRay and HDDVD, and Sony has rarely had much luck selling markets on their own proprietary format.

The 360 is cheaper, by about a hundred dollars, and it has the head start. But was that head start too early? Many gamers thought so, will this hurt Microsoft as much as it hurt Sega?

Once again Sony is promising incredible graphics, and using similarly bullish marketing tactics. Will the market be taken in again? Will Sony actually deliver? It's possible, but reports say early games look marginally better than their 360 counterparts. Many complained that the 360 wasn't next-gen enough early on, but it's hard to say that with a straight face, staring down Gears of War.

Nintendo has definitely gone an odd route. History shows that gamers are very fearful of new controller designs, regardless of the merits (recall the backlash of the more ergonomic 'boomarang' controller for the PS3, which has since been replaced by a controller nearly identical to the Dualshock2), yet Nintendo is banking on their new controller. The gamer reaction was expected, nearly unanimous revulsion from anyone who wasn't die-hard Nintendo already, yet universal praise from the media has swayed the market to cautious neutrality, even hopeful optimism. Will that be enough? Word of mouth now that the Wii is showing up in stores for people to try will almost certainly help or hurt, depending on whether or not Nintendo can deliver what they promise. A cheaper price tag than either of the other two consoles will almost certainly lure a sizeable chunk of the market into giving it a try, and the success of the DS's own odd controls give the Wii some credibility.

It will definitely be interesting.
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Old 2006-11-12, 12:32   Link #178
Benoit
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Quote:
The PSX had a lot going for it as well, which would lead to developers hopping on board, handing Sony the console crown. It was much cheaper than the Sega Saturn, and could produce better looking 3D graphics than Sega's system.
Didn't the Sega Saturn have its price adjusted to $300 shortly after its launch? Sega would pay $100 back for each console.
Quote:
The SNES road on the coattails of the NES. It had far superior graphics to the Genesis, and much better sound as well. However, the Genesis had a large head start, but Nintendo's contractual muscle and heavy handed approach to developers kept strong titles in line for the SNES, winning most gamers over with a combination of graphics, sound, and continuations of beloved franchises like Final Fantasy.
I thought the Genesis/Mega Drive was the most popular console outside of Japan, especially in Europe.

You forget a downside of the SNES, and that was its weak (at the time) main CPU. 3 Mhz, while the Genesis/Mega Drive's was 7.5 Mhz. Sega tried to make this clear with games like Sonic.

It was when the SuperFX chips started appearing that the SNES became a real contender for the Genesis/Mega Drive.
Quote:
Yes, it also introduced a superior gamepad, but you'd be hard pressed to find people who would admit this until much later in the console's life. At first gamers balked at "too many buttons".
I fail to see how more buttons makes a better game pad. And they sure didn't use the buttons all too well. Just look at GBA ports of SNES games. They do fine with the four buttons of the GBA instead of SNES' six.
Quote:
The PS2 was relatively inexpensive, yet promised far superior visuals to the prematurely released Dreamcast (release a console TOO early and it hurts rather than helps)
I had the impression that the Dreamcast was very popular in the US. Also, I beg to differ on "relatively expensive", at least for Europe. The system cost almost double the price of the Dreamcast when it came out here.

Dreamcast = 12000 BEF = ~300 EUR
PS2 = ~23000 BEF = ~575 EUR
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Old 2006-11-12, 13:16   Link #179
Sety
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PS2 being relatively inexpensive is a complete joke, the console is still one of the more expensive of the last gen consoles in Europe. (I kid you not,its on par with XBox) Also when it came out it was in the 250-300 GBP region, probably because of the DVD player support. But seeing it was the most inferior piece of hardware (I mean in a technical sense) and if you knew this it felt like a complete ripoff. But support in Europe for Sony products in general is extremely strong and always has been.
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Old 2006-11-12, 13:25   Link #180
Zero1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
I'm not going to frightening you, but SD cards are limited to 2GB,
unless it is marked as sdhc (aka sd v2.0).
Thanks, I owe you big time. The card does not work in my card reader so I just assumed my cardreader was old. I shall need to check if Wii will handle V2, or if I have to get the old SD cards. Either way it gives me a chance to act on it before I get my Wii.

Radd: Great post.
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