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Old 2006-11-19, 17:33   Link #81
DestinyFate
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Rock Lee once said that "there is no use in seeing it when your body cannot keep up" naruto, who don't have much speed shouldn't be able to keep up with sasuke's speed
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Old 2006-11-19, 18:08   Link #82
Mr. Johnny 5
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That may be true but then again....in Naruto's case...if he was gonna brag he'd say:

Whatever...But there is no use if you cant block my attacks or actually hurt me...since i can heal extremly fast and my hits are nearly impossible to block (i am talking about going Kyuubi)
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Old 2006-11-20, 07:48   Link #83
Hunter
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Naruto always compensates his inferior speed with Kage Bunshin and toughness
Since his opponents also often forget that they are faster and just go right for his Rasengan it's not that big a deal.
Speed isn't the sole decisive factor of a combat or Lee wouldn't have lost all his fights.
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Old 2006-11-21, 12:31   Link #84
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Actually I don't see how you can see it otherwise.
Naruto did nothing but gapping, it was a complete WTF moment for him.
In fact it's not like Naruto showed to be able to repress the Kyubi on his own since part 2.

I doubt it would work on Naruto if he was already using/being used by the Kyubi at full power but it was certainely not teamwork.
He has had the power to stop the kyuubi in the past. But it has seemed to grow stronger, to the point he had trouble opposing it at that time. Either his power diminished over the kyuubi, or the kyuubi's power has increased to where he couldn't oppose it.

He still has a good ability to control the power, as he shows during training. If he could no longer control it at all, all his clones and himself wouldn't be able to use the power at all without going berserk. What it seems is happening is evoking the kyuubi's chakra has become more unstable, and has a stronger chance of going out of control. He's been playing with that fire for far too long, and now he has a good chance of being burned.

I think it is still safe to say if Naruto wasn't opposing but accepting the evil chakra, Sasuke wouldn't be able to repress it.

I also think Sasuke entered Naruto out of simple curiousity that was probably bothering him since their last fight. I don't think he completely had the intention of supressing Naruto's chakra untill he seen the what was happening, and seemed to help Naruto out of that situation.
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Old 2006-11-21, 12:51   Link #85
Mr. Johnny 5
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But this makes me wonder.....

IF Naruto fights Itachi & Kisame and wants to use his Kyuubi chakra it may be useless because...

Kisame simply uses his Soul-Slayer Samehada to eat Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra...
Itachi can enter his mind to prevent him from using it.....(if he can do this too...)
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Old 2006-11-21, 12:56   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
But this makes me wonder.....

IF Naruto fights Itachi & Kisame and wants to use his Kyuubi chakra it may be useless because...

Kisame simply uses his Soul-Slayer Samehada to eat Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra...
Itachi can enter his mind to prevent him from using it.....(if he can do this too...)
We still don't know how much Kisame's sword or the sharingan's mind entry power would be useful against a 4-tailed Kyuubified Naruto...It is even possible that Kyuubi's chakra might deteriorate Kisame's sword, or maybe Uchiha's mind would be trapped inside Kyuubified Naruto's mind, that is even better.

Anyway, Naruto against Itachi and Kisame is never going to happen, so no need to worry about it.
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Old 2006-11-21, 13:33   Link #87
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Anyway, Naruto against Itachi and Kisame is never going to happen, so no need to worry about it.
Why do you say that? A fight to the death is unlikely, but what makes you think that Naruto won't confront either one of them at some future point?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Kisame simply uses his Soul-Slayer Samehada to eat Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra...
Itachi can enter his mind to prevent him from using it.....(if he can do this too...)
I think you might be getting your manga confused. When is Kisame's sword ever referred to as a "soul slayer"?

Kisame used the Samehada right when Naruto was beginning to summon the Kyuubi chakra. Naruto stopped in surprise when he didn't feel the chakra flowing, but if he had fully summoned the Kyuubi chakra or was transformed like Sazelyt suggested we don't know if Kisame would be successful.

Same thing with Itachi. If he can enter Naruto's mind and surpress the Kyuubi then he'd have to do it before Naruto gains tails.
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Old 2006-11-21, 14:12   Link #88
DestinyFate
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but naruto need to change from one tailed to two tailed and so on to become four tailed...so he can't reach four tailed if he is being stopped by itachi or kisama during the earlier stages
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Old 2006-11-21, 14:19   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Why do you say that? A fight to the death is unlikely, but what makes you think that Naruto won't confront either one of them at some future point?
I haven't said they are not going to confront each other. I believe they will, but Naruto will not be alone, when he encounters Itachi and Kisame. Also, if Itachi and Kisame confront only Naruto, how is that not going to result in a no-fight scenario (any kind of fight would be a fight to death for Naruto)? Also, logically if Naruto fights those two alone, the most probably result would be Naruto getting captured, I think that part is pretty clear. And Naruto getting captured by those two would be like another Gaara story, and thus I don't see it happening. Naruto learned all those jutsus and achieved those developments just to become a sitting duck doesn't really makes sense for me.

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but naruto need to change from one tailed to two tailed and so on to become four tailed...so he can't reach four tailed if he is being stopped by itachi or kisama during the earlier stages
If Naruto becomes a Rasengan himself just like the last time when he fought Oro, the power might be too great for Kisame's sword to handle. And, if Naruto intentionally wants to lose his consciousness to Kyuubi, and I think from the recent chapters we can safely claim that it can happen pretty quickly, then Itachi wouldn't find the chance to reach Kyuubi's consciousness through Naruto's consciousness. Anyway, those are just possibilities, including the possibility of Itachi not being capable or aware of such mind control (as he didn't try that before).
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Old 2006-11-21, 14:45   Link #90
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Why do you say that? A fight to the death is unlikely, but what makes you think that Naruto won't confront either one of them at some future point?



I think you might be getting your manga confused. When is Kisame's sword ever referred to as a "soul slayer"?

Kisame used the Samehada right when Naruto was beginning to summon the Kyuubi chakra. Naruto stopped in surprise when he didn't feel the chakra flowing, but if he had fully summoned the Kyuubi chakra or was transformed like Sazelyt suggested we don't know if Kisame would be successful.

Same thing with Itachi. If he can enter Naruto's mind and surpress the Kyuubi then he'd have to do it before Naruto gains tails.
hah...well Samehada seems like a individual creature itself...it lives when it eats chakra....and it only acknowlegdes Kisame...and moves on its own..

Something like a soul trapped inside it...hence the name Soul Slayer....JUST like Bleach...i didnt mix things up...it just seems a fitting name for it.
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Old 2006-11-21, 16:26   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
But this makes me wonder.....

IF Naruto fights Itachi & Kisame and wants to use his Kyuubi chakra it may be useless because...

Kisame simply uses his Soul-Slayer Samehada to eat Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra...
Itachi can enter his mind to prevent him from using it.....(if he can do this too...)
Well if this were true, then all they needed to defeat the kyuubi when it was loose on the world was this sword =p. Either A: the kyuubi has too much chakra to consume (most likely) or B: its odd "evil" chakra is different than normal chakra, and cannot be eaten.
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Old 2006-11-22, 16:57   Link #92
Suna no tate
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kyubi has a lot of chakra and besides for kisame to use the sword, he has to close. who says's he can survive against a tailed naruto. and who says the sword is indestructible.
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Old 2006-11-22, 18:03   Link #93
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omg why is this topic stil goi

1. we've seen a totally motivated naruto a couple times(fight gaara,fight sasuke in the water) and we've seen him put a lot of ownage out(mass shadow cloens and summoning the frog boss) and without tails
2. naruto was obviously in totalt shock when he fought sasuke in the tiemskip......wait till naruto meets him with toalt confidence
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Old 2006-11-22, 21:52   Link #94
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I would have to disagree with you. You have to remember that Orochimaru can't beat Itachi SINCE he doesn't have any counter for the Sharingan. Besides that, 3 out of 4 kinds of jutsus are ineffective against the Sharingan. That only leaves Orochimaru to use forbidden/secret jutsus which Sasuke should know by now aswell. Besides that, there are some clues of Orochimaru's "cautiousness" around Sasuke implying that the Master-student/container ~a term more appropriate~ relationship is now in fact not valid.

It remains a fact that without a Bloodline Limit or super-genius, you can't be too domineering in narutoverse. Orochimaru might have super-genius but Sasuke has both the BEST Bloodline Limit and super-genius as well. Thus we can "SPECULATE" that by now Sasuke would be stronger, if not equally as strong as Orochimaru.

But, as for the topic, we cannot really say who IS stronger right now. It SEEMS that Sasuke has got everything going for him, but I hardly DOUBT that Naruto only grew a tincy bit during the 2 and a half year training he did with Jiraiya as his PRIVATE master/bodyguard.

In Naruto II, Naruto has only shown us 1 IMPROVED jutsu, the giant sized, double handed Rasengan. And the rest are all Naruto fighting Jinchuuruki-fied. So, we cannot say for certain how much Naruto has grown. I highly doubt that in the space of 2 and a half years, Naruto had grown so little considering that from the start of the manga, it would have only been 1-2 years, but that's beside the point.
I agree. I think sasuke is stronger because Ori is always worried about him getting mad. Plus sasuke is much smarter now and knows how to bloke certain attacks. Sasuke also has the unblokebale sword given to him by Ori.
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Old 2006-11-23, 12:46   Link #95
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He still has a good ability to control the power, as he shows during training. If he could no longer control it at all, all his clones and himself wouldn't be able to use the power at all without going berserk. What it seems is happening is evoking the kyuubi's chakra has become more unstable, and has a stronger chance of going out of control. He's been playing with that fire for far too long, and now he has a good chance of being burned.
Actually the training proves exactly the opposite : the only reason Naruto can train this way without going berserk immediately is Yamato's ability which keep the Kyubi at bay. And even with him the Kyubi still broke loose several times.

I don't think it's safe to say that Naruto had anything to do with Sasuke reppressing the power of the Kyubi simply because there is absolutely nothing whatsoever implying that.
-Since Part2 Naruto showed repeatedly his control over the power of the Kyubi is close to non-existant once he starts to really use it, in fact he was already unwillingly getting Kyubi's features before Sasuke entered his mind.
-Once Sasuke was inside Naruto (eek) he was the only one acting and speaking with the Kyubi. Naruto did nothing but being dumbfounded and the Kyubi's remark about Sasuke suppressing his power was solely about Sasuke's doing, Naruto wasn't even mentionned.

Sasuke wasn't helping Naruto, he tried to kill him twice in less than a minute and would have probably done so if not for Orochimaru.
Heck he has no reason to believe reppressing the Kyubi's power would be helping Naruto in the first place, that's why the Kyubi asked him not kill Naruto . In fact for all he knows the Kyubi is the reason of Naruto's incredible power and what allowed Naruto to almost beat him 2.5 years ago.

Quote:
Well if this were true, then all they needed to defeat the kyuubi when it was loose on the world was this sword =p. Either A: the kyuubi has too much chakra to consume (most likely) or B: its odd "evil" chakra is different than normal chakra, and cannot be eaten.
Kisame's sword did eat the Kyubi's chakra the first time he used it that way and Naruto was then unable to make any jutsu.
It's just that doing that to a young Jinchuuriki and to the actual Bijuu isn't quite the same thing to say the less.
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Old 2006-11-24, 14:21   Link #96
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Actually the training proves exactly the opposite : the only reason Naruto can train this way without going berserk immediately is Yamato's ability which keep the Kyubi at bay. And even with him the Kyubi still broke loose several times.
So you are saying that yamato's power is working at all times then? If this is true could you post the scene that implies this. As far as i remember the only time he comes into play is when the kyuubi goes berserk, then he subdues it using his jutsu.

Quote:
I don't think it's safe to say that Naruto had anything to do with Sasuke reppressing the power of the Kyubi simply because there is absolutely nothing whatsoever implying that.
-Since Part2 Naruto showed repeatedly his control over the power of the Kyubi is close to non-existant once he starts to really use it, in fact he was already unwillingly getting Kyubi's features before Sasuke entered his mind.
-Once Sasuke was inside Naruto (eek) he was the only one acting and speaking with the Kyubi. Naruto did nothing but being dumbfounded and the Kyubi's remark about Sasuke suppressing his power was solely about Sasuke's doing, Naruto wasn't even mentionned.

Sasuke wasn't helping Naruto, he tried to kill him twice in less than a minute and would have probably done so if not for Orochimaru.
Heck he has no reason to believe reppressing the Kyubi's power would be helping Naruto in the first place, that's why the Kyubi asked him not kill Naruto . In fact for all he knows the Kyubi is the reason of Naruto's incredible power and what allowed Naruto to almost beat him 2.5 years ago.
When naruto is fighting the clay guy (whos name escapes me), he controls it, granted not very long. However everytime he has gone outta control like this in part 2 it's during an emotional time also.

Like i said, if naruto is still capable of using kyuubi chakra without transforming, like i believe is happening during the training, then he still has a semblance of control when he is non-emotional.

Also Sasuke was going to kill him in their last fight, and didn't. Honestly, i doubt he would have this time either. He decided there was no need to kill Naruto, and it's hard to say he wouldn't come to the same decision. We really can't say for sure either way, but he is a pretty confused guy. He is probably gonna continue to bounce from good and evil.

Quote:
Kisame's sword did eat the Kyubi's chakra the first time he used it that way and Naruto was then unable to make any jutsu.
It's just that doing that to a young Jinchuuriki and to the actual Bijuu isn't quite the same thing to say the less.
I think i recall that, isnt it when Sasuke confronted his brother, who had Naruto. In any case, there is probably a limit to how much it can "eat", so that if it tried to do that in part 2, it may not work.
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Old 2006-11-24, 14:31   Link #97
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So you are saying that yamato's power is working at all times then? If this is true could you post the scene that implies this. As far as i remember the only time he comes into play is when the kyuubi goes berserk, then he subdues it using his jutsu.
317 Page 6, we see Yamato using his power to control the Kyuby Chakra while Naruto is just doing the Cut the leef wiht wind Training while using a tuck load of Clones.

There are more like this example.

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
including the possibility of Itachi not being capable or aware of such mind control (as he didn't try that before).
Well, Itahci never had the need to do it, so we can't part from the fact that he has not used that before, is just like Kaksshi Rasengan.

I believe Itachi can also do that type of Control.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-11-24 at 14:44.
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Old 2006-11-24, 14:56   Link #98
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317 Page 6, we see Yamato using his power to control the Kyuby Chakra while Naruto is just doing the Cut the leef wiht wind Training while using a tuck load of Clones.

There are more like this example.
It seems to be he is stabilizing it perhaps in some way. I would say he is preparing to subdue it, but it appears he has just a little sweat on his face from exerting himself a bit. Also Kakashi asks if it is going alright.

It's hard to say if Sasuke can actually completely negate Naruto's power at this point, since we don't even know what Sasuke did exactly. Most, including me, don't dont want to believe Sasuke can block kyuubi chakra if they fight. It is as bad as Naruto being able to stop Sasuke from using Sharingan...

I wouldn't think the author would have made it this badly lopsided.
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Old 2006-11-24, 15:12   Link #99
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It seems to be he is stabilizing it perhaps in some way. I would say he is preparing to subdue it, but it appears he has just a little sweat on his face from exerting himself a bit. Also Kakashi asks if it is going alright.
Well, Kakashi do ask how is the Controlling of Kyuby is going, if Kakashi ask this , this means that at this moment Yamato is using his power to keep Kyuby at bay, the moment we see Naruto goes Berserk, I see it as moment were The pressure of Kyuby Chakra gets so big that Yamato is forced to do an extra effort to suppress it.

Also We see in the next Chapter that right after Naruto releases his Clones finish up the training, Yamato also releases his control on Kyuby Chakras.
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Old 2006-11-24, 16:55   Link #100
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So you are saying that yamato's power is working at all times then? If this is true could you post the scene that implies this. As far as i remember the only time he comes into play is when the kyuubi goes berserk, then he subdues it using his jutsu.
Chap 317 p6 & 7 Yamato has already the seal appearing in the palm of his hand when he controls the Kyubi's chakra and Kakashi asks him if he has any problem to control the chakra.
Chap318 p3 Naruto releases the Tayuu Kage Bunshin and Yamato looking tired releases his jutsu as well with the seal dissapearing.
Chap 319 p4, 6, 8, 16 & 17 Yamato is still in position using his jutsu.
Chap 320 p 6 Naruto releases his Kage Bunshins and Yamato does the same looking even more tired.
Chap 320 p17 Yamato thinks he didn't want to eat ramen after all that work.
Chap322 p6 & 9 Yamato is still trying to control the chakra before the tails came out p10. Same thing chapter 329.

Quote:
When naruto is fighting the clay guy (whos name escapes me), he controls it, granted not very long. However everytime he has gone outta control like this in part 2 it's during an emotional time also.
It's Deidara.
There is maybe 10 or 15s between the moment Naruto truly understood Gaara was dead and the moment he lost control of the Kyubi, indeed I wouldn't call that very long.
During emotional times and when he's using much chakra, that's the problem with Yondaime's seal weakening.

Quote:
Like i said, if naruto is still capable of using kyuubi chakra without transforming, like i believe is happening during the training, then he still has a semblance of control when he is non-emotional.
And like I said above that's only because of Yamato.
It's not to say that Naruto will instantaneously loss his mind at the very moment he starts molding some Kyubi's chakra but the least feeling of anger or using to much of the power from the Kyubi can trigger the tails.

Quote:
Also Sasuke was going to kill him in their last fight, and didn't. Honestly, i doubt he would have this time either. He decided there was no need to kill Naruto, and it's hard to say he wouldn't come to the same decision. We really can't say for sure either way, but he is a pretty confused guy. He is probably gonna continue to bounce from good and evil.
Well not really. He sparred Naruto the first time because he didn't want to obey Itachi and gain the MS like that.
After the timeskip Sasuke has (or believes he has) completely severed his bond with Naruto. Hence no more best friend, hence no more MS.
At this point Naruto is just a hindrance and Sasuke was going for the kill which is why Oro and Kabuto stopped him since they think Naruto & co could be more useful alive than dead.
It's true that he's probably going to bounce between good and evil but at this particular time the bounce was clearly in the dark side.

Like you said you don't want to believe Sasuke can block kyuubi chakra but for the current this is exactly what happened.
I mean Sasuke pats the Kyubi's nose, blasts his head off and then the Kyubi says to Sasuke : "Unbelievable... To think you could even be able to supress my power."
You can't get clearer than that.
Now don't misunderstand me, I agree that since we don't know how Sasuke did it we can't say the extent of this power (in fact I already discussed about this subject with miss rave who firmly believes that Sasuke can just look at 4Tailed Naruto to beat him ) but while we don't know how he did it and if he could still do it if Naruto was already fairly empowered for example, it is quite obvious that Naruto had nothing to do with Sasuke repressing the Kyubi's power at this point of time.

In fact this is probably the whole point of Naruto learning a jutsu going to be unbelievably powerful without need to turn into a beast.


Quote:
I think i recall that, isnt it when Sasuke confronted his brother, who had Naruto. In any case, there is probably a limit to how much it can "eat", so that if it tried to do that in part 2, it may not work.
That would depend of the level of "transformation" I believe. I doubt the sword could aborb all the chakra surrounding a tailed Naruto.
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