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Old 2006-07-05, 07:44   Link #1
Skyfall
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Grunts in CE...

.. could use some more training ?

No really, we have all seen that the more advanced the main casts MS gets the more grunts become useless. But is it only the mobile suit fault ?

I mean, look at Athrun and Yzak in ZAKKUs - they pwned Auel and Sting in their GUNDAMs. Heine did amazingly well in his GOUF against Stellar. Rey also did a mighty fine job vs Leo(Mwu) and his Exzas ( or whatever that thing was called ) and Lunamaria...wel... she managed to survive against Stellar for a while - gues thats not bad also

So as we can see also basic grunt suits have high potential when used to their limits. Could it be that the mass grunt pwnage is created by total lack of skill from the pilots side, rather than the main casts overpowered MS ? ( ofc MS also play a role in this ) We have seen that GUNDAMS can be taken out by grunt suits ( Junius 7 battle ) and that in hands of skilled pilots grunt units can fight on equal pace with GUNDAMs ( Heine vs Stellar ).

Now is it me or it seems that none of the grunt pilots know even the basics of piloting ? Once Kira got his SF he pwned like 50 grunts in 2 minutes. I dont think that that would be the case if the grunt units would be piloted by , lets say, Athrun or Yzak.

It seems that all the EA and ZAFT think are numbers above anything else. How do you think, if one of them would cut the unit production by half and instead increse pilot training and developmeent would that affect them in a positive way ? I think definitely because at the curent stage the grunts are displayed as nothing more than stationary targets that cant dodge / block / use melee/ or even aim How can military have such incompetent pilots ?
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Old 2006-07-05, 09:32   Link #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
.. could use some more training ?
Oh hells yeah.

Just look at the 30 Windams dying to Shinn in early SEED - what the hell? They hover in mid air, they fly in a straight line, they don't even make an attempt at dodging or flying fast.

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Now is it me or it seems that none of the grunt pilots know even the basics of piloting
Absolutely right. They're pimping the Gundams by way of nerfing the opposition to make them seem incredibly über, instead of making the opposition competent and having the pilots defeat them in a contest of skill. It's boring.
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Old 2006-07-05, 10:33   Link #3
shaolo
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Note that the name that you have bought up are name characters.

As for the grunt and their suits, while the suits look pretty and all but put the suit into combat and watch in get pawn by a name character easily. I say it like this, after Kira got the Freedom back in Seed it has been like the only perpose for a grunt is to sit there or fly in a streight line and get shoot down. Shot, they can't even prevent the name character of pawning them with the weapons they have. Increasing the number of grunt units probably wouldn't help them against the name character. If Shinn in the Impulse toke down 30 windams in a battle, just think how many if it was the Destiny or Athrun in the I-J or Kira in the S-Freedom.
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Old 2006-07-05, 10:52   Link #4
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Originally Posted by shaolo
Note that the name that you have bought up are name characters.
I am avare of that however if one character chan reach such hights others also might. Ofc im not saying all the grunts should be as skilled as the main cast , but it kinda gets boring if you know that Athrun/Kira in their MS could pwn an unlimited number of grunts with one hand tied behind their backs while reading a book at the same time.

Just look at the last battle of Messiah - Kira and Athrun pwned an entire army by themselves. I bet that either one of them could have done this on their own np with time to spare. Its simply frustrating that if a name character eneters the stage all enemy units aside from other main characters become useless by default. I mean - whats the point for ZAFT to have an immense army if it becomes useless the second Kira and Athrun enters the stage ?

Both sides just should have their name characters dish it out, and the side whose main cast wins is decleared the winner in war since the rest of the army is useless if someone of the main cast is still alive
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Old 2006-07-05, 11:54   Link #5
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It is sad really like you said once a main character enters the stage all the grunts exist for is to glorify them they become canon fodder by default. It is ridiculous how Kira can rape an entire army of grunts in less than two minutes what's the point to have alot of explosions and to demonstrate how the main characters are so vastly superior to every other pilot. In my opinion it get's very boring to watch because you already know the outcome of the battle before it start's. Thats why I liked Yzak the best in destiny at least when he was fighting even though we didnt get to see alot of him he was beating the grunts in a grunt suit so it was at least interesting. It proves that the suits have so much potential but they are wasted on pilots who only exsit to make the main characters look better. It's a real shame.
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Old 2006-07-05, 12:16   Link #6
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It's like I said...SEED/SEED Destiny inherits Gundam Wing's while "main-character-invincibility-factor"

Put a main character in the normally-hopelessly-outmatched grunt MS and they suddenly become just as good as a Gundam/main character MS and can actually lose a limb/take tons of shots without blowing up into oblivion.

Take them out and put in a nameless grunt and they suddenly get taken down with 1 little bullet, lol.
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Old 2006-07-05, 12:32   Link #7
hanxthre
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Oh hells yeah.

Just look at the 30 Windams dying to Shinn in early SEED - what the hell? They hover in mid air, they fly in a straight line, they don't even make an attempt at dodging or flying fast.
LMAO Yeah Like 6 months to a year more training would have stopped them from being bugs on Shinn's windshield XD...What they need to do is either use all druggy-type pilots (regardless of stability) or severly increase the AI control of all mass produced suits...I mean mobile dolls would do a better job than CE grunts...Why not try pre-programmed interface with the pilots (Where the suits aid in tactics or formations)...Hell it's better than them just wasting our time out there...

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Its simply frustrating that if a name character eneters the stage all enemy units aside from other main characters become useless by default
You should understand that only Gundam Wing and GSD allows this to happen routinely in Gundam, and in Wing's defense atleast I found them doing it a bit better to watch than GSD (Since named guys fight each other alot in Wing)...GSD just ruined all our preceptions of this stuff, grunts being useless is really not a hallmark of Gundam on the whole...
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Old 2006-07-05, 12:42   Link #8
Anh_Minh
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Well, how long does it take to learn to place your shield between you and the enemy? If they did that... they'd still lose, sure, but they wouldn't look so ridiculous.
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Old 2006-07-05, 12:44   Link #9
hanxthre
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^Well at the very least if I was scared shitless at Shinn approaching me it would be nice if my AI would say :"Shield releasing now.." XD...

And once it saw I would get gut-stabbed it would say: "Ejection now" XD...
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Old 2006-07-05, 13:19   Link #10
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I guess there's a bit of suspended belief going on with the grunt suits by grunt pilots being terrible.

However, do keep in mind that this is not completely unprecedented in history. In times of war, often machines overtake pilot training in terms of budget dollars spent. Often, it's kids out of middle school and highschool getting recruited into war. Just look at the casts age. How much training can they possibly receive. The justification seems to be that in a grander scale, a super pilot is not better than a superior suit with a mediocre pilot. GSD just seems to put a super heavy emphasis on the superior pilot.

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Old 2006-07-05, 14:24   Link #11
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All that might be true, but tell me...how much of training does it take to put a shield in front of you ? Maybe the grunt pilots havnt noticed they have one they cant even block, let alone dodge or aim properly :P And it doesnt look like ZAFT would be short on funds for pilot training. It looks like the pilots have gotten a 20 minute long training period in a simulator and then put in to actual combat.

Ok, never mind EA, but at least coordinator pilots should know at least that the shield they carry can actually block things, i mean - they are suposed to learn faster, better and all that crap..... Or maybe not - maybe all the good genes from all the coordiantors were absorbed by the few Red suit pilots , Kira , Lacus and raw, and rest were left with nothing
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Old 2006-07-05, 15:37   Link #12
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err...

At least Gundams in GW had their share of grunt horror, 1st with tauruses, then virgos, then serpents. They figured them out eventually of course, but compared to GSD, Wing pales in grunt suckiness.

Now, GSD, yeah grunt are suckage. Not the grunt MSes, as they are very capable (See: Athrun, Rey, Luna, Yzak, Dearka, Heine etc), but the grunt PILOTS (dot dot dot) the way they fly, an F-15 can probably kill all 30 of the windams anyways with just sidewinders, sparrows and some vulcans.
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Old 2006-07-05, 15:55   Link #13
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Well if that F-15 was the decepticon Starscream then yeah probably XD...
and yeah Wing is 5 times better than GSD...

I mean Windams seem gay as hell but the double barrell versions with boosted weapons looked more than capable of dishing some damage (with the right team strategy) and even DESTROY seems nearly unbeatable if it fights from a distance (This is obviously before the show jumped the shark and made even DESTROY a grunt)...Neo eventhough he sucks pre-hackatsuki has enuff skills to engage IMPULSE with a team-strategy...GSD just said fuck strategy and if your not a named character your shit outta luck...and that's why the series was crap...
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Old 2006-07-05, 17:13   Link #14
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Basically, if a grunt is associated with the EAF in Destiny, it's fucked.

If it's a Destroy Gundam it's extra fucked.

God, I hate what Fukuda did to the EAF...
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Old 2006-07-05, 17:53   Link #15
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Skyfall
All that might be true, but tell me...how much of training does it take to put a shield in front of you ? Maybe the grunt pilots havnt noticed they have one they cant even block, let alone dodge or aim properly :P And it doesnt look like ZAFT would be short on funds for pilot training. It looks like the pilots have gotten a 20 minute long training period in a simulator and then put in to actual combat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but those kinds of machines carry at least somewhat an automatic targeting system right? I don't think it matters if your a coordinator or not, those Windams should've been a match for Shinn yet they couldn't lay a single shot on him....or at least some damage. Same goes with ZAFT.

However, do note that later on in GSD when ZAFT fought against the EAF with Minerva off doing something else, the battle was more or less even with heavy casualties on both sides. ZAFT suffers the same fate when they take on Lacus and her army.

Stormtrooper effect unfortunately.

Quote:
Ok, never mind EA, but at least coordinator pilots should know at least that the shield they carry can actually block things, i mean - they are suposed to learn faster, better and all that crap..... Or maybe not - maybe all the good genes from all the coordiantors were absorbed by the few Red suit pilots , Kira , Lacus and raw, and rest were left with nothing
It's even sadder that ZAFT's top guns are 16 years old. I'm pretty sure a 25 year old coordinator who joined the army at 16 would be more qualified to fly experimental units such as Destiny, etc.

It's even sadder that the EAF's extended humans perform horribly, especially in GSD. These guys are suppose to be enhanced humans right? They should perform even better than coordinators yet they can't do jack.
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Old 2006-07-05, 17:55   Link #16
sANDEKERU
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Guys, CE doesnt need more clones, seed, newtypes, druggies, extendzored pilots..

Stop whining and consider the alternative

"You know yuo can liek lead a noob to water but yuo cant liek maek him drink it" Jeremy @ purepwnage

Every pilot will eventualy meet their potential, but most will be limited by themselves, and some will always be better than others.

You cant beat a cordinator seeded newtype sitting on golden leg joints joyriding in his pimped out SF.This guy is even pimping his sister to his homie and banging his homie's ex fiancee, but he could do with a limp walk and a cane tbh imo.

"Metall masks are like so last week" Mu la flaga

F_ace it.
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Old 2006-07-05, 19:33   Link #17
SNT1
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^hve no freakin idea what you just meant by that.
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Old 2006-07-05, 19:36   Link #18
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^hve no freakin idea what you just meant by that.
Me too.... What do you mean???
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Old 2006-07-05, 19:44   Link #19
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Originally Posted by sANDEKERU
Guys, CE doesnt need more clones, seed, newtypes, druggies, extendzored pilots..

Stop whining and consider the alternative

"You know yuo can liek lead a noob to water but yuo cant liek maek him drink it" Jeremy @ purepwnage

Every pilot will eventualy meet their potential, but most will be limited by themselves, and some will always be better than others.

You cant beat a cordinator seeded newtype sitting on golden leg joints joyriding in his pimped out SF.This guy is even pimping his sister to his homie and banging his homie's ex fiancee, but he could do with a limp walk and a cane tbh imo.

"Metall masks are like so last week" Mu la flaga

F_ace it.

HAHAHA LMAO ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2006-07-05, 19:45   Link #20
Silent Soldier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sANDEKERU
Guys, CE doesnt need more clones, seed, newtypes, druggies, extendzored pilots..

Stop whining and consider the alternative

"You know yuo can liek lead a noob to water but yuo cant liek maek him drink it" Jeremy @ purepwnage

Every pilot will eventualy meet their potential, but most will be limited by themselves, and some will always be better than others.

You cant beat a cordinator seeded newtype sitting on golden leg joints joyriding in his pimped out SF.This guy is even pimping his sister to his homie and banging his homie's ex fiancee, but he could do with a limp walk and a cane tbh imo.

"Metall masks are like so last week" Mu la flaga

F_ace it.
hahaha ummmm what are you talking about that made no sense at all.
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