AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 488 56.74%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 237 27.56%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 58 6.74%
7 out of 10 : Good 44 5.12%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 1.98%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 6 0.70%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.12%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 0.23%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 0.81%
Voters: 860. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-07-24, 15:16   Link #81
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I realize it is one of the small ways we have of even counting popularity (downloads per ep advancement). But it completely misses the "sneaker net" spreading of files. I personally have at least 5-10 sets of eyeballs that I pass DVD burns to because they're on dialup or caps of various sorts and I trade download burns with people to reduce overall bandwidth damage.

So whether we're touting popularity or trying to show "da mob of hairless monkeys hates it they do" .... we have to keep in mind that this measurement of downloads/ep against eps/time has its limits as well.

I'd actually *expect* SHnY to have dropped in downloads over the life of the series at least in this first degree measure .... simply because Joe_Anime is going to have a harder time with it than the average series. Just like "Survival of the Fittest Idols Being Cooked by Big Brother" pulls in more eyeballs than, say, anything on PBS. Though even thats a hard call because many of those shows are on commercial tv ... not because they're all that watched but because they're *cheap*.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 15:20   Link #82
arias
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
I realize it is one of the small ways we have of even counting popularity (downloads per ep advancement). But it completely misses the "sneaker net" spreading of files. I personally have at least 5-10 sets of eyeballs that I pass DVD burns to because they're on dialup or caps of various sorts and I trade download burns with people to reduce overall bandwidth damage.

So whether we're touting popularity or trying to show "da mob of hairless monkeys hates it they do" .... we have to keep in mind that this measurement of downloads/ep against eps/time has its limits as well.
Oh yah, for sure. I attained almost all my SuzuHaru releases through IRC, and that isn't accounted for as well. We can only argue with the available data and note the caveats -- which unfortunately I did not. Thanks for bringing them to attention anyways..
arias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 15:26   Link #83
rooboy
Umeboshi!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tejas
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
IT IS REALLY OKAY TO NOT LIKE A STORY AND ACCEPT THAT IT IS WELL MADE.
One doesn't have to trash it to feel better. On the other hand, a story full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog should be labeled for what it is -- junk.
I would like to point out that my point was that for every show you (you as in anyone, not you specifically, Vexx) label with "full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog" as the reasons you don't like it, I could pick out another one that has the same flaws that you like. Most works are average (thus, the definition of "average") and contain plenty of plot holes and inconsistent characterization (just like real life). That's probably not what you liked (or didn't like) about it.
For example, Tsukihime seems like the kind of show I would like - it has (reportedly) a good plot, kinda sad, little bit of action, lot of work on theme, strong characters. That's pretty much a recipe for success for me EXCEPT I can't stand vampires. Ergo, I will never enjoy Tsukihime. I can't control that reaction, I can't even identify what makes something like Tsukihime or Blood+ different than Tsukuyomi, Hellsing and Karin (series that are also about vampires but that I do enjoy). It's disingenuous for me to say I didn't like them because of incosistent characterization (or whatever) - because Tsukuyomi and Karin both have plenty of that as well.
I guess my point was it's okay to like something because you like it or don't like it because you don't - most of the time there's not any deeper meaning to it. The writer's didn't blow it, they didn't mangle the lines, didn't "cheat the characters" (that's my favorite) and didn't leave any more gaping plot holes than normal, you just don't like it.
__________________
rooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 15:53   Link #84
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I guess we'll agree to qualifiedly disagree in some odd but ambiguous way.... I think writers do actually blow it on occasion .. even for genre or plot situations or characters I think highly of. There is such a thing as poor writing.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 16:01   Link #85
rooboy
Umeboshi!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tejas
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
I guess we'll agree to qualifiedly disagree in some odd but ambiguous way.... I think writers do actually blow it on occasion .. even for genre or plot situations or characters I think highly of. There is such a thing as poor writing.
I agree with that - there is such a thing as poor writing (it would be silly to disagree with that). There is actually a LOT of textbook poor writing in anime, it infects even shows that are well thought of. What I disagree with is how often it's invoked to give a reason why someone doesn't like something when I can look at other shows they say they like and they suffer from the same poor writing. Though obviously there's a question of degree involved - some things are written considerably poorer than others most of the time it simply ends up being a case of the positives of this show outweighing the negatives for that person but not for this other show.
__________________
rooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 16:15   Link #86
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
aye.... in fact, I try to completely separate my irrational like/dislike for a show versus what I think of the writing. Heck.. some of my favorite series of all time had an occasionally horribly written episode (refers to "Spock's Brain" and withers away). And series that I loathe contain some outstanding writing and acting (my wife loves a couple that I just have to leave the room when they're on -- and they're excellent by theatrical or literary assessment).

The reason I consciously separate the two is that I'm asked to *grade* various creative works (speeches, debate, fiction, etc) that may conflict with my personal desires, opinions, or thoughts. So in the past, I've given highest marks to, for example, someone arguing against evolution and for creationism because they presented their argument so well (despite the problem that I could blow holes through most of the arguments presented by both sides). Poetry is always fun (not) ... because what I like is irrelevant to how well they are executing the style they've chosen.

I can think of two recent anime series where I was onboard all the way but observe that the writing stunk in the last arc of one series (they tried to have it too many ways) and that they trainwrecked the other in the end credits of the last episode (or rather failed to build to it when they certainly had the time budget to).
Another series I loved had a two episode derail of the plot which in a 13 episode series is very painful on the time budget.

You and I are on the same page with vampires ... we probably like and dislike those shows you list for the same reasons. But I also recognize that Karin fell flat (okay..maybe not "flat") on several episodes and made one of those "comedy/tragedy" transitions that are hard to fathom (Tsukuyomi seemed to pull it off more smoothly but then it started out dark).

There's some instances of SHnY where I'd have liked to see more... or that something I find in the novels I wish had been animated. But so far the show is pretty consistent in writing, animation, characterization, voice acting, and music, so even if I hated the story I'd still have to mark it fairly high.
Higurashi may end up one of those shows that I also mark very highly on all counts but take forever to actually watch all of because I'm just not fond of the story.

(we're going offtopic so I suppose I ought to clam up now)

Last edited by Vexx; 2006-07-24 at 16:28.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 16:26   Link #87
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
I think your statistics are not representative of the actual situation.. mainly because 20k + 10k + 14k = 44k. SuzuHaru's initial viewcount was 120-140k. Let's be conservative and say 120k, so taking away your 44k means that 76k is left.

We all know that it stabilized at about 40k towards the end, so the audience loss is obviously much more than what you've claimed.
I'm not claiming all of them left during those episodes. I'm just saying that's where the majority left. The other episodes have about the loss of viewer one would expect, at about 1k per. Those 3 I mentioned really stood out. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, could you give a link? I'm going by afk's page on scarywater.

According to that there were 111,543 downloads of episode one and 52,305 downloads of episode 14 as of this moment. Those numbers are of course subject to change. By my math, that makes 59,238 drops. Of those about 43 thousand (I rounded up in the initial estimates), or about 72% of the people who dropped it did so after those three episodes.

Note that this applies only to bt downloads using the scarywater tracker. I don't know, nor do I care about statistics from irc, traditional p2p networks, newsgroups, youtube, cds on ebay, or other various ways to get it. Tracker statistics are inaccurate enough, trying consider the rest is far too much effort, and would only serve to increase the inaccuracy.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 16:35   Link #88
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
I'm not claiming all of them left during those episodes. I'm just saying that's where the majority left. The other episodes have about the loss of viewer one would expect, at about 1k per. Those 3 I mentioned really stood out. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, could you give a link? I'm going by afk's page on scarywater.

According to that there were 111,543 downloads of episode one and 52,305 downloads of episode 14 as of this moment. Those numbers are of course subject to change. By my math, that makes 59,238 drops. Of those about 43 thousand (I rounded up in the initial estimates), or about 72% of the people who dropped it did so after those three episodes.

Note that this applies only to bt downloads using the scarywater tracker. I don't know, nor do I care about statistics from irc, traditional p2p networks, newsgroups, youtube, cds on ebay, or other various ways to get it. Tracker statistics are inaccurate enough, trying consider the rest is far too much effort, and would only serve to increase the inaccuracy.

heh??? I was with you until the "innaccuracy" part... but..... it isn't the "total numbers" of the downloads that are interesting (you have to assume thats a fraction of the total eyeballs) but how they dropped.
Each significant drop happened at the "tale-twister" points.

I' dont get episode 1, its stupid. (drop).
I don't have any idea what is going on in ep 4, I'm lost. (drop).
Ep 5 this isn't an ecchi romance highschool show? (drop).

That's why I always tell people to watch the first *five* before they decide on the merits of the series. Thats a bit of time investment so I don't even recommend the series to people I don't think will get caught.

It would be interesting to compare this data graphically with other popular series and see if there are specific "drop" points where a series loses people and how it relates to the storyline.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 16:57   Link #89
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
heh??? I was with you until the "innaccuracy" part...
We can't say for sure that each of those downloads represents a unique viewer. They could be people who redownloaded for some reason. Not to mention, it's possible that rather than dropping it entirely, some of the lost bt downloads could represent viewers migrating to another method of getting the episodes. However, if we start considering other methods, the statistics aren't as easy to get, and uncertainty about unique viewers only increases, especially for youtube.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 17:09   Link #90
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
We can't say for sure that each of those downloads represents a unique viewer. They could be people who redownloaded for some reason. Not to mention, it's possible that rather than dropping it entirely, some of the lost bt downloads could represent viewers migrating to another method of getting the episodes. However, if we start considering other methods, the statistics aren't as easy to get, and uncertainty about unique viewers only increases, especially for youtube.
To paraphrase: We've got no idea how many unique viewers the series had
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-24, 20:01   Link #91
SnakeLegend
Back Again From Haruhiism
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
Age: 94
Send a message via MSN to SnakeLegend Send a message via Skype™ to SnakeLegend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
LOL

where on earth did you pull that from?

Genius.

Gotta use that the next time someone question about my Anime hobby.

Nothing like throwing something random about flowers into argument to thrw them off.
if possible do it
nothing like anime-flowers blooming around~
__________________
SnakeLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-28, 05:57   Link #92
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Furthermore, bear in mind that it is mostly English readers that will download from a.f.k...

We also have French/Italian/Spanish/etc... fansubs of TMoSH as well, not to mention the sheer amount of Chinese fansubs.

And this is also discounting those who watch it RAW( or amazingly enough, from the TV itself ).

As it stands, all the a.f.k. trackers show is that a lot of English readers either do not like TMoSH, do not get it, or are unaware of it.

Trying to stipulate that TMoSH is not doing well via the a.f.k. trackers alone is like conducting a poll in Kenya and concluding that Saddam Hussien is an Angel.

So what is the global success of TMoSH then? Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-28, 07:32   Link #93
Hunter Nin.
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredder
The progress was super subtle. One blush could've sealed the deal. Couldn't they at least give that much! I thought the last scene (ponytail) before the little epilogue would've been the ideal time. Even if Kyon didn't see it, like when she was turned away. Yeah, right then. It would've been totally natural too after hearing something like that. Then a lil ecchi of course.
I'd say the bit where Kyon wakes up in episode 9 when Haruhi has put her cardigan on him could count as a blush... Her cheeks don't turn red but, well they might've in the offscreen bit.
__________________
Hunter Nin.
Hunter Nin. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-28, 08:14   Link #94
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
I am just fine with no blush at all. Every single hints of her caring for Kyon are by far superior to the Tsundere's Mandatory Blush™
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-31, 01:57   Link #95
Kikaifan
Blazing General
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 28
I ranked it a 9. I'm one of those '10 is for perfection' people. If there had been a dramatic, sweeping overplot that had developed all the characters significantly but nonetheless left all the other good points of the series intact, I could have ranked it a 10. But perfection isn't easily attained, and I'm pretty sure some grand dramatic plot would have diminished other parts of the series sufficiently to make it a 9 again. But... there's always hope.

My gut-level evaluation:
I love MoSH. It's the best anime I've watched. The characters, no matter how archetypal, felt fresh and were fun to watch. The animation was great. The voices felt appropriate to their characters. There may not have been a strong overplot, but I wanted to see what the characters would do next time, and usually I wanted to see them do it again. It didn't require me to think, but it gave me opportunities to. It Was Fun.

Now for the pickier intellectual analysis:

Value:
Many critics have pointed out that this series acts like it's original while using concepts that are omnipresent in anime. Haruhi's eccentricity, as Taniguchi says, 'takes a path unlike any you've ever seen,' but she's still your basic self-righteous socially inept tsundere. Mikuru's cowering may be especially moe, that still just makes her the $1 special edition at the dime-a-dozen fanservice store. Yuki? Yeah, I loved Yuki... back when she was named Hanajima Saki. Itsuki pretty much is his philosophical ramblings and none-too-subtle interest in Kyon. The main character has secret powers? That's pretty much a truism in anime. High-school hijinks with a cast of weirdos? Masaru would be proud. Taken out of the context of the entire show, the only thing about it that seems even close to original is Kyon's often-clever stream-of-conscious evaluation of the events surrounding him.

So why am I not one of the people beating this series with the 'overrated' stick? Here's a phrase English professors love: 'subverting the paradigm.' The fact is, MoSH was constructed so that any plot contrivance it cares to implement, and especially those that are typical of anime, has a built-in explanation in Haruhi's attempts to make the world conform to anime stylings and the rest of the cast's need to keep her happy. That Haruhi assembles the Archetype Crew BECAUSE they represent their archetypes is the best example of this, and one I found both clever and hilarious... but it's that the entire show is set up for that kind of thing that's the best part. The self-deprecation of the first episode only enhances it. And that's why I think it can fairly be said that it subverts its paradigm, rather than just being a slave to it. Add to this an extremely memorable cast and a lot of Kyon's wit, and you've got a show that I'll enjoy enough to rate 9/10.

Characters:
The star here is Kyon. I'm not going to claim that Tanigawa Nagaru is the Japanese James Joyce or anything, but Kyon's stream-of-conscious-esque commentary is what gives this series its unique feel. Fortunately he's funny, so the fact that he hardly ever shuts up (at least in his head) is to the series' benefit. I like dry humor and sarcasm, so Kyon provides more or less constant amusement for me. Kyon's character development is nice and even- he slowly adjusts to the reality of the SOS-dan and comes to appreciate the rest of the cast, but the weirdness of his situation is always there in the back of his head (as the narration often demonstrates) and he never loses his critical voice, he justs brings it slowly into line with the reality he finds himself in.

Haruhi I have a hard time judging individually because I like the tsundere archetype anyway, but she displays a personal magnetism and level of physical energy that set her apart. Watching her, I easily understand why Kyon got dragged along in her wake against his better judgement. Her megalomania is hilarious, and while I'd take issue with her lack or moral scruples in real life, as a character I'm more than willing to forgive her when she provides me scenes like... say... all of episode 11. God I love episode 11. Her frequent lecturing of Kyon is usually funny too. Her development is the most obvious with episode 12, and to those who argue that the switch in that episode from a near-sociopathic personality to empathy and effort for the sake of others is too sudden, I respond that there is clear build-up in the baseball and island episodes, and that with her impulsive personality, I would expect her first act of kindness to come out of the blue as well.

I was serious when I said I loved Yuki when she was named Hanajima Saki. They hardly the same character- though I would love it if Yuki grew to show a personality comparable to Hanajima's, which is just right for the quiet-but-oh-so-useful type. But make no mistake, Yuki has a personality of her own. Yes, it's understated, but this presents its own advantages: even though her characterization and development are slight and in reaction to exposure to new people rather than life-changing events (well, I guess socializing with people might count as life-changing for Yuki), because she's effectively a blank slate even small changes or character-defining reactions are readily apparent.

Unlike some fans I love it when Itsuki's around. His philosophical babble usually isn't especially helpful, but unlike Mikuru's explanation of time travel or Yuki's 'you wouldn't understand this if I tried to explain it'-type responses, they're something you can actually wrap your head around easily. His hand gestures and the reactions he provokes from Kyon amuse as well. Unfortunately, he's also the character with the least development... frankly, I can't spot any at all, and you'd think that all this Yuki-watching would teach me to find some little things. Unlike the big three I can't say he's a 'good' character, just one I like to have around.

And last we come to poor Mikuru, Haruhi's chosen source of fanservice for the series. My evaluation is much like my evaluation of Itsuki... her mannerisms (see: cowering, mind-numbingly cute crush on Kyon) are amusing, she gets good reactions from other characters (Kyon may take number one spot for me, but he wouldn't be nearly as great without such great foils), but with little development, I can't call her a good character, just one I like to have around.

IQ:
I'm goind to have to disagree about the series being deep. Things like the Schroedinger equations flying around in the opening, Yuki's book choices, Kyon's historical and literary references, and Itsuki's philosophical meanderings are references to things that require thought. Mikuru's line 'we could no longer travel back in time,' properly examined, is the most mind-bending idea I've ever encountered in anime (one word: metatime). But, like Kyon, we get by just fine by accepting the limitations of our brain with regards to time travel and the nature of incorporeal intelligences or assuming Itsuki is just making all that crap up and waiting for something that really matters, like the subjects of all that jabbering threatening someone's life or reality as we know it. There are parts of this series that are empty intellectual fluff, like said flying equations or Mikuru's description of time and time travel, and there are parts that warrant real thought like Itsuki's subjectivist stance in reaction to his absolute knowledge of the mutability of their reality or Haruhi's existentialist crises. But... I don't know, it just didn't challenge me to think. It makes its references and provokes some thought, but I can't honestly call it cerebral. Among anime it might qualify as an intellectual giant (and frankly, I wouldn't know, since I usually stick to comedic titles), but it isn't exactly Parfit or Hofstadter.

Animation:
Yeah, it's superb for a television show. I love watching the characters move, whether it's Haruhi pacing, gesturing, and drop-kicking, or just Yuki flipping pages in a book.


Man, that feels good to have typed out. Thanks for your indulgence.

Last edited by Kikaifan; 2006-07-31 at 02:11.
Kikaifan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-31, 02:17   Link #96
C.A.
Absolute Haruhist!
*Artist
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan
IQ:
I'm goind to have to disagree about the series being deep. Things like the Schroedinger equations flying around in the opening, Yuki's book choices, Kyon's historical and literary references, and Itsuki's philosophical meanderings are references to things that require thought. Mikuru's line 'we could no longer travel back in time,' properly examined, is the most mind-bending idea I've ever encountered in anime (one word: metatime). But, like Kyon, we get by just fine by accepting the limitations of our brain with regards to time travel and the nature of incorporeal intelligences or assuming Itsuki is just making all that crap up and waiting for something that really matters, like the subjects of all that jabbering threatening someone's life or reality as we know it. There are parts of this series that are empty intellectual fluff, like said flying equations or Mikuru's description of time and time travel, and there are parts that warrant real thought like Itsuki's subjectivist stance in reaction to his absolute knowledge of the mutability of their reality or Haruhi's existentialist crises. But... I don't know, it just didn't challenge me to think. It makes its references and provokes some thought, but I can't honestly call it cerebral. Among anime it might qualify as an intellectual giant (and frankly, I wouldn't know, since I usually stick to comedic titles), but it isn't exactly Parfit or Hofstadter.
Well, stuff doesn't look so deep because its only the 1st of 8 novels, its only the water surface. Stuff only really begins after the last episode.

The anime is based on the 1st novel, which tells us how Kyon met Haruhi and how the SOS-dan was formed. We are also given a glimpse of the situation KYon has got himself into, that aliens, time travellers and espers are actually real. Kyon finding out and accepting the new reality is the only real character development we see in novel 1. Haruhi also had some development, but she hides it from us, or you can say she's hiding from Kyon. Everything we see in this story is Kyon's perspective.

I strongly recommend you to read the novels, where you will find what is really happening. You'll learn that these stereotypical characters aren't as normal as you think. The anime has shown little of Yuki, Mikuru and Itsuki's purpose and what they can do, especially for Yuki. The entire story is deep, but the anime isn't, because its only the beginning.
__________________
No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
C.A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-31, 02:38   Link #97
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Some beatnik finger-snapping for Kikaifan for the nice post.... nicely executed critique.

@C.A. : he did note that the implicit theme of the series was "subverting the paradigm" -- take the cliche and *twist* it a bit, so he acknowledges the variance from stereotypes. I thought his ideas in the "IQ" section were interesting in that a lot of it was more of an indirect reference but I think there was as much as "average laypuppy who's seen a few documentaries on PBS" could probably tolerate. What I liked is that most of the references in the series weren't just technobabble (i.e. radicalize the pito-baron particle array, ensign!) ... but based on actual scientific concepts (proven or speculative).
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-31, 02:45   Link #98
C.A.
Absolute Haruhist!
*Artist
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 27
I acknowledge his post as well lol, I'd say its really well written indeed.

But what I see from the stereotypical characters in Haruhi, isn't exactly just a twist. I think the real characters are literally hiding behind these stereotypes.
__________________
No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
C.A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-07-31, 12:41   Link #99
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Aye... obviously we can never really know how the author arrived at his characters but I do think the characters were defined from from their backgrounds rather than starting with stereotypes and fleshing them out.

Example: we have an entity from a non-corporeal aggregrate mind that needs an interface to interact with organic minds (humans) and observe Haruhi. It assigns a node. Thinking about how the node would act, its background story (coming up with Yuki for a name because it appeared in the snow?), thin because of a lack of need for physical prowess, somewhat vanishes in the crowd ... and poof, you've got something that appears to be a stereotype but really isn't.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-08-01, 19:21   Link #100
Kikaifan
Blazing General
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 28
Responding to CA:

I've read the novel chapters translated by Baka-Tsuki so far.

I didn't mean to imply that the characters were limited by their archetypes. The qualities of each that I discussed when I addressed them individially were all things I felt made them stand out. I might say that Mikuru and Itsuki were merely particularly amusing iterations of their archetype, but Haruhi, Yuki, and especially Kyon all felt like unique characters even if they were easy to label.

My intent was to argue that if MoSH has something that really distinguishes it from other series in a literary sense, it's the way it purposefully tells such an unusual story using such a familiar setting and cast... but I don't think that they're so familiar as to pose a detriment.

As for the IQ section: I maintain that MoSH's atmosphere is mostly based on a sense of adventure, 'what's going to happen next?' rather than giving you a real mystery to piece together, so there's no intellectual challenge inherent to the structure of the series. As for technology and science... well, they call Yuki a magic-user for a reason- while her manipulations may be rooted in physical law, her methods are incomprehensible (aren't even observable, really) to Kyon and the viewer. Mikuru gives us something you can at least spin your wheels on with the time travel, but I only ever get a headache, and since we only ever see one timeline figuring this out isn't necessary. The philosophy is probably the only really accessible part. The references give it a nice intellectual atmosphere, but like I said, it only gives opportunities to think, it doesn't require you to.

Responding to Vexx:

Thanks XD. I was worried I'd gotten too pretentious with my love of overwrought phrasing for its own sake.
Kikaifan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.