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Old 2006-07-11, 12:08   Link #61
Tak
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Maintained by what crew? The only things in that garage were cords! Maybe some were feeding the freedom battery, but I am willing to bet others are just there for decorative purposes. It does not change the fact that Freedom had been sitting there for two years getting dust, without prior knowledge to Kira.

As for your second statement. Yeah? And what use did that do? What firepower did that consist? Nothing much. The Eternal may hold its own against several mobile suits, but as for attacking an entire fortress? It can't even go against a fleet ship! The only advantage it ever had was that it was fast. Its all Freedom and Justice when you want to destroy a fortress, which is percisely what they did.

Wing Zero nearly overloaded itself firing its gun against only several layers of bunkers, which no doubt were significantly weaker than any fortress deployed by ZAFT. Not that I have any disrespect for Mr. Yui here, but how can I be convinced when he can't even take on several layers of bunkers with virtually no opposition.

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Old 2006-07-11, 12:19   Link #62
SNT1
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Maintained by what crew? The only things in that garage were cords! Maybe some were feeding the freedom battery, but I am willing to bet others are just there for decorative purposes. It does not change the fact that Freedom had been sitting there for two years getting dust, without prior knowledge to Kira.
ORLY. He and Andrew was asking for 'the key' when the assasinators came around.

Again, it doesn't make sense to keep an MS, fix it, (remember raw destroyed it) and NOT maintained it? O_o It doesn't matter if there are no crews present or shown; Destiny, Legend, Saviour, Strike Freedom and I-Justice didnt when they were introduced, so whats your point? (I guess the cords attached themselves to the MS)

Quote:
As for your second statement. Yeah? And what use did that do? What firepower did that consist? Nothing much. The Eternal may hold its own against several mobile suits, but as for attacking an entire fortress? It can't even go against a fleet ship! The only advantage it ever had was that it was fast. Its all Freedom and Justice when you want to destroy a fortress, which is percisely what they did.
firepower is still firepower, help is still help. METEOR is still help. Eternal is still help. The fact still stands that any MS that Ive mentioned (WZ, Epyon, T3, Double X) can destroy the asteroid in equal or less time, without any help from any MA/ship.

Quote:
Wing Zero nearly overloaded itself firing its gun against only several layers of bunkers, which no doubt were significantly weaker than any fortress deployed by ZAFT.
leaving the '2 years of maint/trashed by nataku fact are we? Let's see what else was going on in this time frame of AC. Heavyarms running out of ammo (as usual). Deathscythe running out of beam energy. Quatre running low on juice as well. Pattern is, they were all weaker than they were at AC195, and 2 years of no maintenace is proof of that. In fact, only the Nataku was the only one in top form at EW, because (drum roll) Wufei kept his MS!

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how can I be convinced when he can't even take on several layers of bunkers with virtually no opposition.
he was getting shot by serpents
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Old 2006-07-11, 12:45   Link #63
Tak
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"Again, it doesn't make sense to keep an MS, fix it, (remember raw destroyed it) and NOT maintained it? O_o It doesn't matter if there are no crews present or shown; Destiny, Legend, Saviour, Strike Freedom and I-Justice didnt when they were introduced, so whats your point? (I guess the cords attached themselves to the MS)"

Appranently it had been fixed in secrecy after the first war. Destiny, Legend, Saviour all had a crew because they were introduced in ZAFT hangers. Later, when they were introduced to the Minerva, crews were learning how to maintain them. S. Freedom & I. Justice had a crew obviously because the Eternal was crewed in the first place. As for the original Freedom, Lacus wanted to forget about the damn thing, as did everyone else. Hell, it was collecting dust inside a garage and almost became a relic until some dumb ZAFT chairman who indirectly revived it.

"firepower is still firepower, help is still help. METEOR is still help. Eternal is still help. The fact still stands that any MS that Ive mentioned (WZ, Epyon, T3, Double X) can destroy the asteroid in equal or less time, without any help from any MA/ship."

Yeah funny that, and WZ can't handle bunkers.

Heck, if Eternal offered its help, for the sake of the plotline, are you going to refuse it? Well, I don't think so. But eternal aside, Athrun took out the original Genesis Fortress with his Justice alone, that is a fact.

"Wing Zero nearly overloaded itself firing its gun against only several layers of bunkers, which no doubt were significantly weaker than any fortress deployed by ZAFT. "

Didn't you just say firepower is still firepower? I highly doubt two years of time would decrease their firepower so much to the point where a few layers of steel can actually pose a threat!

"he was getting shot by serpents"

Urm, he was near orbit, where no 'serpents' could reach him, even with their weapons.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-11, 12:55   Link #64
Obi-Wan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
ORLY. He and Andrew was asking for 'the key' when the assasinators came around.
Kira didn't ask for the keys, idiot. Andrew asks for them, and then Kira turns around and looks at the giant door with a "I wonder wtf is behind this" expression, catches on, and then he asks for the keys. Like hell he knew they restored it.

Way to fail at watching Gundam.
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Old 2006-07-11, 12:55   Link #65
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Appranently it had been fixed in secrecy after the first war. Destiny, Legend, Saviour all had a crew because they were introduced in ZAFT hangers. Later, when they were introduced to the Minerva, crews were learning how to maintain them. S. Freedom & I. Justice had a crew obviously because the Eternal was crewed in the first place. As for the original Freedom, Lacus wanted to forget about the damn thing, as did everyone else. Hell, it was collecting dust inside a garage and almost became a relic until some dumb ZAFT chairman who indirectly revived it.
I ask you for the third time: why do you think it wasn't maintained? garbage? full of nonsense. It was clearly there for emergency purpose. Hell, If they really wanted to forget about it then why did they even bother fixing it? If Lacus want to forget it, why did she even keep the damned thing? Why not chuck that key into the deep sea? if it was gonna be a relic, why not put it in a museum?

Quote:
Didn't you just say firepower is still firepower? I highly doubt two years of time would decrease their firepower so much to the point where a few layers of steel can actually pose a threat!
and you just threw off that the Nataku has critically damaged it, as well as the serpents!! Oh yeah, it still blew up a colony btw, I guess the bunker was tougher than the colony AND the asteroid base anyway, going by your logic.

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Athrun took out the original Genesis Fortress with his Justice alone, that is a fact.
i dont dispute that; its self-destruction though (and partly so on I-J). a Sandrock can do the same thing

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Urm, he was in orbit, where no 'serpents' could reach him, even with their weapons.

http://www.epy0n.com/gallery/image.h...03/ew3-324.jpg
notice the clouds. definitely not in orbit.

http://www.epy0n.com/gallery/image.h...03/ew3-341.jpg
gunshots from serpents

http://www.epy0n.com/gallery/image.h...03/ew3-340.jpg
more gunshots!

http://www.epy0n.com/gallery/image.h...03/ew3-343.jpg
uno mas!!!

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Kira didn't ask for the keys, idiot. Andrew asks for them, and then Kira turns around and looks at the giant door with a "I wonder wtf is behind this" expression, catches on, and then he asks for the keys. Like hell he knew they restored it.
then in the very sentence you just posted you just said he asked for the keys. idiot. let's see flame bait, what did you want to accomplish in this post? To prove the fact that the Freedom wasn't maintained, which is the topic it rooted from? if not, just go away.
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:23   Link #66
Tak
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"I ask you for the third time: why do you think it wasn't maintained? garbage? full of nonsense. It was clearly there for emergency purpose. Hell, If they really wanted to forget about it then why did they even bother fixing it? If Lacus want to forget it, why did she even keep the damned thing? Why not chuck that key into the deep sea? if it was gonna be a relic, why not put it in a museum?"

Yeah, it was there for emergency purposes, but that does not change the fact that everyone simply wanted to forget about it, Lacus included & Kira obviously already did. Why maintain it? There had not been a war in two years and since when did fixing something meant you had to maintain it as well? If you think that didn't make sense, then check Cold War history and Russian submarines (hell, they are just waiting to be hijacked, each and every single one of them).

If people wanted to forget about it, why even bother reminding themselves by maintaining it? It was obvious that both Andrew and Lacus had not stepped into the garage for a very long time ever since it was fixed.

"notice the clouds. definitely not in orbit."

I said -near- orbit.

"gunshots from serpents"

And how many missed?

"you just threw off that the Nataku has critically damaged it"

So what? He can't fight against bunnkers composed mainly of steel and stone? Give me a break. And later what did he do? He nearly kamikazed himself. At least in GS/GSD, MS smash bunkers either with bare hands or beam weapons.

And yes, I fully acknowledge plot inconsistency in EVERY Gundam franchise.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:37   Link #67
SNT1
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Yeah, it was there for emergency purposes, but that does not change the fact that everyone simply wanted to forget about it, Lacus included & Kira obviously already did. Why maintain it? There had not been a war in two years. Since when did fixing something meant you had to maintain it as well? If people wanted to forget about it, why even bother reminding themselves by maintaining it? It was obvious that both Andrew and Lacus had not stepped into the garage for a very long time ever since it was fixed.
err, too much contradiction here. If they wanted to forget about it, then they shouldnt have fix'd it, and they fix it, they have to maintain it, or else it should have been performing like junk.
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I said -near- orbit.
there are no type of clouds that looked like the one in the image that is NEAR orbit.

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And how many missed?
doesnt matter, WZ was hit several times (and that with bad grunt aiming common to AU)

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So what? He can't fight against bunnkers composed mainly of steel and stone? Give me a break. And later what did he do? He nearly kamikazed himself. At least in GS/GSD, MS smash bunkers either with bare hands or beam weapons.
for the 4th time, it mustve been stronger than the colony. so with your logic freedom can punch an AC colony to destruction? why do you ignore that WZ blew up a colony? its magnitude is similar (if not bigger) than that of the asteroid base, meaning WZ can blow it down.

Also, there is the double-X which can annihilate an island (bigger boom than TBR), the Virsago CB (who can probably get close to the TBR in boom), the Epyon who can more easily chop the Asteroid base into bits, etc...

with that, I'm dropping the arguement, unless I hear a smarter arguement. It seems so silly to go far off-topic and respond to posts that contradicts itself and ignores some facts...
I apologize for the super OT m(_ _)m

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What I was trying to prove with my post, idiot, was that had Kira known they had a Gundam hidden in that facility, he wouldn't have been like "omg look a big door, what could be behind it?" He doesn't ask for the key until he puts the pieces together and realizes there's a MS behind that door. Had he known beforehand he probably would've smashed Haro against the wall and taken the keys on his own so he could get the MS and protect everyone.
...which clearly has nothing to do with the topic (and I asked too). Go away troll, dont want to be temp-banned like you.
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:41   Link #68
monster
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Does it really matter if a mobile suit destroys something in seconds or in minutes? The fact it can destroy should be enough.

Now let's get back on topic, ok?
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:41   Link #69
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Originally Posted by SNT1
...which clearly has nothing to do with the topic (and I asked too). Go away troll, dont want to be temp-banned like you.
If you wanted to stay on topic, you shouldn't have gone OT in the first place.
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:46   Link #70
SNT1
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Originally Posted by monstert
Does it really matter if a mobile suit destroys something in seconds or in minutes? The fact it can destroy should be enough.

Now let's get back on topic, ok?
well, the topic is "who is the best pilot in AU", in which I have said Heero/Garrod/Zechs can destroy a big space base/colony faster than Kira ever could, then the responses deviated into "WZ sucked at bunkers :P" so in a sense I wasnt the one who started it.

yeah, ill say it again to pick up where we left of--- Heero/Garrod/Zechs can destroy a big/space/colony faster than Kira ever could, in addition to downin grunts faster. therefore, Kira is 4th best at most.
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:48   Link #71
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Everyone says that Kira is God so I guess he is the best.
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:49   Link #72
SNT1
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relatively speaking maybe?
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Old 2006-07-11, 13:51   Link #73
Tak
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"Also, there is the double-X which can annihilate an island (bigger boom than TBR), the Virsago CB (who can probably get close to the TBR in boom), the Epyon who can more easily chop the Asteroid base into bits, etc..."

Urm, the X-series all took their power from the 'MOON' to operate their primary weapons successfully. There is nothing to the X series if you don't let them stand and charge their systems or sever its link to the moon. At least Freedom & Justice were performing top-notch with or without the meteor.

"err, too much contradiction here. If they wanted to forget about it, then they shouldnt have fix'd it, and they fix it, they have to maintain it, or else it should have been performing like junk."

What contradiction. That is a fact. It is a fact that both Andrew and Lacus had not stepped into that garage for a very long time. You'd think they let anyone (including a crew) inside that garage without their supervision? Hell no. Did they wanted to forget about it? Yes. Lacus, as well as Andy, were both reluctant to use the 'key'.

As for it performing like a wreck? Maybe it was performing like a wreck, except Kira was fighting grunts, not other Gundams. Or maybe because he wasn't as dumb as Yui to overload himself.

- Tak
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Old 2006-07-11, 14:47   Link #74
Obi-Wan
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Originally Posted by Last_Hope
Everyone says that Kira is God so I guess he is the best.
Yes I agree.

All the "Kira is God" people, please step up and defend your bullshit now. If you don't mind.
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Old 2006-07-11, 14:57   Link #75
xris
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Look, this is a discussion thread, not a "let's find ways to insult people" thread.

I suggest everyone (i.e. mostly Obi-Wan ) cool down and bring this thread back on topic.

It's not a "I hate Kira" thread, it's not a "Kira is God" thread, it's a discussion about who might be the best pilot, however you may want to define "best"
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Old 2006-07-11, 15:00   Link #76
Tak
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Originally Posted by xris
however you may want to define "best"
Welp, then I guess I -am- the best non-UC pilot after all. Given the fact that I managed to trash Freedom, Justice, Destiny with just a ... Cgue in Fed. VS. Zaft

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Old 2006-07-11, 16:32   Link #77
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Best non-uc pilot? Thats a tough one to decide, its not like every pilot uses a mobile suit similar enough to each to give a decent comparision. some of the non-uc pilots also kinda have something that sorta holds back there full potential, for example Kira Yamato's no kill policy, or Jamil Neate's issues with his newtype abilities.
If they were all given a Strike to pilot with, the best non-UC pilots I can think of right now from each AU series:
Trowa Barton, Heero Yuy, Milliardo Peacecraft (Gundam Wing)
Lancerow Dawell, Jamile Neate (Gundam X)
Harry Ord (Turn-A)
Athrun Zala (Destiny) I would have said Kira Yamato, but as long as he maintains his no-kill policy his chances of being defeated are more greater that Athrun's.
Can't say anything for pilots from G Gundam because Ive never watched it.
The CE Universe IMO has many potentials for the best non-UC pilot if you include the sidestories like the Astray series and so forth.

Just deciding who's the best pilot between these guys is hard enough for me. IMO they are very close to each other in skill.
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Old 2006-07-11, 22:13   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Yes I agree.

All the "Kira is God" people, please step up and defend your bullshit now. If you don't mind.

I will defend the "UC & Tomino" are gods.



Anyway, Best Non- UC Pilot would have to be, in my mind, Jamil Neate. He's basically the Amuro of the Non-UC World.
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Old 2006-07-11, 22:35   Link #79
SNT1
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I forgot about the astray people... never read much of it, but Lowe, Gai, Ed the Ripper, Rondo Ghina/Mina etc... could probably keep up with the best of CE, not sure though, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 2006-07-11, 22:44   Link #80
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Lol, some of the people you mentioned are some of the best in CE, I don't think they need to do much to keep up with themselves.
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