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Old 2006-07-16, 15:17   Link #21
cheese4u
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Oh come on, Sasuke is not stronger then Yondaime, all he did was supress some of the Kyuubi's chakra while he was inside of a weakened Naruto from 4-Tails transformation. If Kyuubi were to be let loose Sasuke would be the first to die, because he's so damn cocky about the power that Oro gave him he'd probably jump in Kyuubi's mouth and start dancing. If Kyuubi's powers weren't restricted he'd obliterate anything in his path. It's been said that one swipe of Kyuubi's tail could raise tsunami's, do you really think Sasuke could do that? Do you think anyone could do that? If Sasuke's powers really were that great then all that would've been required to defeat Kyuubi was a few members of the Uchiha clan. As far as we know Yondaime didn't have any power to restrict the Kyuubi and he still battled it out enough to get Kyuubi's respect. Sasuke can't restrict Yondaime's powers, so what would he do in a fight against him.
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Old 2006-07-16, 16:09   Link #22
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lol, Sasuke might be a jounin-leveled fighter when he activates his Cursed Seal to its maximum.
He still has miles to walk before reaching the Kage/Sannin/Akatuski level
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Old 2006-07-16, 16:48   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
I agree with everything except the Rasengan part, Naruto mastered Rasengan without Kyuubi.
Naruto's Rasengan isn't mastered
he meant that he needs Kagebunshin to create rasengan OR be in Kyuubi form
even when fighting as Sai (bunshin) he used his hand
and Kakashi almost died few times when Chidori without Sharigan
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Old 2006-07-16, 17:09   Link #24
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolcik
Naruto's Rasengan isn't mastered
he meant that he needs Kagebunshin to create rasengan OR be in Kyuubi form
even when fighting as Sai (bunshin) he used his hand
and Kakashi almost died few times when Chidori without Sharigan
Then how do you explain the Rasengan who was created to counter Itachi?....He didnt had time to create a bunshin or made one...

He did master it...but we dont know why he did used Sai to create one...
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Old 2006-07-16, 19:27   Link #25
Kotengu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Then how do you explain the Rasengan who was created to counter Itachi?....He didnt had time to create a bunshin or made one...

He did master it...but we dont know why he did used Sai to create one...
Acutally he used a bushin to make the rasengan. You can tell cuz he attacked with a bushin and himself in semi kyuubi mode, and used odama rasengan.

and thanx wolcik for the assist. I'll consider the rasengan mastered by naruto when I see him do it in both hands at the same time without the assistance of a bushin, or the kyuubi (or any other jutsu/power). Just like big J!
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Old 2006-07-17, 02:34   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Then how do you explain the Rasengan who was created to counter Itachi?....He didnt had time to create a bunshin or made one...

He did master it...but we dont know why he did used Sai to create one...
when Naruto saw Itachi for the first time he lost all his chakra at the begining so if he would like to fight he would have to ask Kyuubi right away
at the battle with Itachi's 20% I remember his having bunshin with suprising Rasengan attack, but I can't check it out to confirm now :P

Kotegnu, np but still I think that the only real master of Rasengan was Yondaime, not Jiraiya
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Old 2006-07-17, 02:42   Link #27
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Why does someone even open this thread???, this thread should be closed!!!its the same thing as Yondaime VS Sasuke, same difference, this thread should be close and this is a dumb topic to even discuss about, we know Yondaime is strong, no need to debate about this...
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Old 2006-07-17, 02:45   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLegend
Why does someone even open this thread???, this thread should be closed!!!its the same thing as Yondaime VS Sasuke, same difference, this thread should be close and this is a dumb topic to even discuss about, we know Yondaime is strong, no need to debate about this...
this kind of threads usually change topics to something diffrent in manga, or turn into flameing ones XD
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Old 2006-07-17, 03:00   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yes, Sasuke post-timeskip is already stronger than Yondaime Hokage.

His chakra is more terrifying and cursed than that of Kyuubi, with amazing potential.
Where did you get this from 0.o`? if anyhting he has prefectly normal chakra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yondaime's chakra was never special, as he is just a normal shinobi who doesn't have a bloodline.
Complete conjecture. They ahve not gone in depth with Yondaime so we really dont know much about him, making any comparison in the first place useless.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Sasuke already defeated Kyuubi, when he suppressed the chakra as if it's nothing.
Kyuubi is afraid of the Uchihas, as they threaten it's existence, like Uchiha Madara, the strongest of all.
Kyuubi had to beg Sasuke not to kill Naruto, as he doesn't stand a chance against this Uchiha kid.
Conjecture again >.< What happened in that seen is not understood, but at most he just forced the kyuubi, who has no powers while he is locked up, to stop.

Kyuubi tells him not to kill the kid simply because he doesnt have faith in naruto, and never has in fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Yes? Sasuke has Chidori, which is equal to Rasengan, stated in the databook.
This is the jutsu developed by genius Kakashi, who wanted to fight Yondaime, even as a kid,
and went against Yondaime's orders to show how impressive the Hatake clan is.
Not to mention Sasuke can flow Chidori from his entire body, the absolute defense.
Chidori and Rasengan are the same rank, but rasengan is superior to chidori as the water tanks showed during the sasuke vs naruto match.

Kakashi was an idiot as a kid when he disobey and had to get his ass saved by yondaime.

The limits of sasukes new chidori abilitys and how effect they really are are unknown aswell and completely usuless to argue about for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Sharingan may be able to copy Hiraishin, as it isn't a bloodline ability.
Sasuke already gained insane speed anyway, so Yondaime's jutsu isn't a problem.
Sharingan can see the seals and predict movements, so Yondaime can't surprise him,
which is the primary advantage of Hiraishin, to surprise the enemy and ambush him.
You have no idea about this. Apparently this is a jutsu that only yondaime could use so yet again you win the conjecture prize fine sir!
he can sopy movements but apprently there doesnt need to be any real movement for that beisdes placeing the seals so as long as you do it in a covert manner, which yondaime, being hokage level, should be able to do.

YOndaime is the greatest of all hokage as the series has showed, striking fear even into Sarutobis eyes. He was the shining gem of konoha and was able to surpass even orochimaru significatly and dispite this axioms we dont know enough about the new sasuke OR Yondaime to make a judgement on this so its pretty usueless to argue >.<
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Old 2006-07-17, 04:02   Link #30
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotengu
Acutally he used a bushin to make the rasengan. You can tell cuz he attacked with a bushin and himself in semi kyuubi mode, and used odama rasengan.

and thanx wolcik for the assist. I'll consider the rasengan mastered by naruto when I see him do it in both hands at the same time without the assistance of a bushin, or the kyuubi (or any other jutsu/power). Just like big J!
When using Oodama Rasengan he used an extra bunshin....but when he used normal Rasengan against Itachi's Kage Bunshin he used Rasengan one handed...

It happens immediatly after Kakashi's attack gets blocked..
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Old 2006-07-17, 06:05   Link #31
ri0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xTwilightx
YOndaime is the greatest of all hokage as the series has showed, striking fear even into Sarutobis eyes. He was the shining gem of konoha and was able to surpass even orochimaru significatly and dispite this axioms we dont know enough about the new sasuke OR Yondaime to make a judgement on this so its pretty usueless to argue >.<
I agree with most of your points but this last paragraph is not right in my eyes... We can't know who was the strongest Hokage (I'd vote for Sarutobi) and we can't know who is/was stronger Orochimaru or Yondaime... I'd like to borrow your last sentence: we dont know enough about [...] Yondaime to make a judgement on this so its pretty usueless to argue
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Old 2006-07-17, 06:30   Link #32
tatami
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what we know about sasuke is a lot,yet after the time skip we only know that he uses a sword know,his sharingan is improved ,has a gay look for the needs of orochimaru,has an alternative chidori and incredible speed...but it is not enough he is not the sasuke we used to know...

what we know about yondaime kokage: not much...yellow hair blue eyes best shinobi in the village,sealed kyubi, hiraishin vs. but it is not enough...

so 2 man we dont know much about,too many "we dont know" stuff.

it is pointless.

my own belief: yondaime became hokage very young age, sasuke cried a lot for more power.also to think that great power is seen in a battle when protecting something precious,yondaime had a lot to protect yet sasuke doesnt have anything.this alone is enough for yondaime to beat sasuke in narutoverse...
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Old 2006-07-17, 06:33   Link #33
tatami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Flash
Uchiha Yashiro.
he doesnt have blonde hair,only his hair is lighter then other uchihas and then again it could be because of his age.
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Old 2006-07-17, 06:42   Link #34
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
When using Oodama Rasengan he used an extra bunshin....but when he used normal Rasengan against Itachi's Kage Bunshin he used Rasengan one handed...

It happens immediatly after Kakashi's attack gets blocked..
Naruto doesn't need a KB to use the Rasengan. He needs two hands.
Using both his hand isn't very practicable in actual battle so he uses a KB for that.
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Old 2006-07-17, 07:13   Link #35
Wolcik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Naruto doesn't need a KB to use the Rasengan. He needs two hands.
Using both his hand isn't very practicable in actual battle so he uses a KB for that.
great point

and maybe Yondaime had bloodlimit that gave him hiraishin jutsu if we spectualete we could asume that so it would be like hokage bloodlimit genius vs gaylooking bloodlimit genius
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Old 2006-07-17, 08:57   Link #36
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Naruto doesn't need a KB to use the Rasengan. He needs two hands.
Using both his hand isn't very practicable in actual battle so he uses a KB for that.
He used the Rasengan in 1 frame...I dont think that Itachi would be slow enough for Naruto to use it with 2 hands...

He probably used it at the same speed or even faster then Jiraiya...Itachi is pretty fast and even Naruto was rushing to Itachi countering Itachi with Rasengan...

What was weird is that Itachi didnt evade it....(Sharingan?)
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Old 2006-07-17, 09:33   Link #37
Syaoran
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Hmm.. Naruto using his other hand is purely to get the chakra spinning wildly. I think he's able to do it with one hand, but by using both hand, the chakra motion gets more chaotic and stronger. His Rasengan might be stronger than Jiraiya's in normal mode, not even considiring the one in the Valley of the End.

That Itachi was only a 30% version, wasn't it ?
Maybe that fake Itachi is working like Naruto's kage bunshin. He didn't evade Rasengan, but now Itachi knows what it it and eventually how to counter it, so that where Naruto's training might come in handy now.

Preparing Rasengan, charging onto Itachi and since Itachi know and counters, Naruto uses a wind jutsu vanishes and reappears behind Itachi, treating him on Rasengan right in the middle of his spine... After this, he'll have a hard time getting on his feet again and Kakashi can drag Itachi to Konoha
The next logic step would be Sasuke dumping Orochimaru and also go back to Konoha, to kill the weak Itachi, argue with Naruto and being jealous of each other (or vice versa)
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Old 2006-07-17, 10:22   Link #38
IVIavrick
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My thoughts on some of these topics...

There was a Kage Bushin when Naruto attacked Itachi...

There is no way Sasuke can compare to a Hokage, and especially not Yodaime.
Granted... we do not know much about the Fourth, but we do know this: He could use the Hiraishin and the Rasengan. I speculate that with these two moves used together in a fight against Sasuke, Sasuke would be sorely defeated. Follow with me here, the Body Flicker is instantaneous so then couldn't Yellow Flash simply have a Rasengan prepared from afar, teleport to Sasuke's location, use the Rasengan and finish him... and if one won't do it, than flick over to Sasuke mid-flight and Rasengan him again over and over. I know that we do not know how much chakra the two moves would eat up, but I'm certain he has enough to do this just once.

I was thinking about something...

1.Sasuke ADMITTED that he and Orochimaru were not strong enough to take out Itachi.

2. Itachi and Kisame were unable to take Naruto as long as Jiraiya was there to protect him, and Itachi even showed some fear of Ero-Sennin when they were scouting.

3. I submit that Jiraiya is definately stronger than Itachi based on those premises.

4. Does this mean that in all actuality Jiraiya is also stronger than Orochimaru?

~I know it seems a bit contradictory since, in the 3-Sannin Battle, Orochimaru was not defeated~

However I thought of a few reasons for this. Jiraiya and Tsunade had Naruto and Shizume to worry about. I also believe that Jiraiya can never bring out his full strength against his former comrade and close friend. I mean, we never really have seen his true capacity thus far.

Who is the strongest of the Legendary Three?

.....Oh and this is just my opinion here but I love how each of the members of Team 7 have been trained under the Sannin, so I honestly feel that Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura will eventually unfold into the new legendary three, even stronger than Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Tsunade....
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Old 2006-07-17, 11:23   Link #39
Wolcik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIavrick
My thoughts on some of these topics...

There was a Kage Bushin when Naruto attacked Itachi...

There is no way Sasuke can compare to a Hokage, and especially not Yodaime.
Granted... we do not know much about the Fourth, but we do know this: He could use the Hiraishin and the Rasengan. I speculate that with these two moves used together in a fight against Sasuke, Sasuke would be sorely defeated. Follow with me here, the Body Flicker is instantaneous so then couldn't Yellow Flash simply have a Rasengan prepared from afar, teleport to Sasuke's location, use the Rasengan and finish him... and if one won't do it, than flick over to Sasuke mid-flight and Rasengan him again over and over. I know that we do not know how much chakra the two moves would eat up, but I'm certain he has enough to do this just once.

I was thinking about something...

1.Sasuke ADMITTED that he and Orochimaru were not strong enough to take out Itachi.

2. Itachi and Kisame were unable to take Naruto as long as Jiraiya was there to protect him, and Itachi even showed some fear of Ero-Sennin when they were scouting.

3. I submit that Jiraiya is definately stronger than Itachi based on those premises.

4. Does this mean that in all actuality Jiraiya is also stronger than Orochimaru?

~I know it seems a bit contradictory since, in the 3-Sannin Battle, Orochimaru was not defeated~

However I thought of a few reasons for this. Jiraiya and Tsunade had Naruto and Shizume to worry about. I also believe that Jiraiya can never bring out his full strength against his former comrade and close friend. I mean, we never really have seen his true capacity thus far.

Who is the strongest of the Legendary Three?

.....Oh and this is just my opinion here but I love how each of the members of Team 7 have been trained under the Sannin, so I honestly feel that Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura will eventually unfold into the new legendary three, even stronger than Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Tsunade....
Yondaime knew more jutsus than those two :P there is no need to think how even the battle would look like, Sasuke wouldn't survive and that's it

1.even if they both at the same are weaker than Itachi, I doubt that Sasuke would like to fight him diffrently than 1vs1, even if it has to be only his body :?

2.Kisame and Itachi were after fight with 4 hight Jounin level ninjas (since between Jounin and Hokage there is no other rank) and some runing

3.Itachi and Jiraiya didn't fight, or didn't even started... and it might be more of Itachi's nature to avoid poitless dengerous (Hokage/Legendary Sannin level) battle if possible

4.I'd say that untill one of them kill another, we won't know XD

and everybody is afraid that Team 7 would become Legendary Sennins succesors, they have to be diffrent or else story would suck :P
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Old 2006-07-17, 11:47   Link #40
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Nah!! Sasuke is not stronger than Yondaime. But he is more arrogant than Yondaime. hehe.
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