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Old 2010-07-21, 02:10   Link #81
milan kyuubi
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Minato is strong but who knows how many hax jutsus EMS has.

Also kodok_balls you know that you just responded to a four year old post.
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Old 2010-07-21, 02:12   Link #82
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Minato is strong but who knows how many hax jutsus EMS has.
Obviously not enough to keep Madara from getting Rasengan'd in the back.
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Old 2010-07-21, 04:20   Link #83
Mr. Johnny 5
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Yep. I think the latest chapters truly confirmed who is stronger.... Sasuke?? LoL don't ever make me laugh like that again...
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Old 2010-07-21, 06:16   Link #84
Sonic n Tails
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Yep. I think the latest chapters truly confirmed who is stronger.... Sasuke?? LoL don't ever make me laugh like that again...
WTF, just because Madara failed and got trolled by the 4th doesn't mean Sasuke will follow tu suite. The man is stronger than Itachi and Madara combined his his sharingan has far more potential than them. Sasuke would curbroll Minato because he's a part of the new generation that surpasses the old.

We don't even know what the heck Sasuke EMS does, all sharingan users are different from each other. Sasuke as a shinobi is destined to be stronger than everyone bar Naruto.

GTFO with your narutardism.
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Old 2010-07-21, 06:34   Link #85
Tsuyoshi
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Let's see....because we don't know what the EMS is capable of, I'm going to assume, based on the definition of the name, that the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan is simply eternal and does not deteriorate as the normal MS does. That said, Sasuke's abilities have not changed, but he can use them for a lot longer without any risk to his eyesight. This does not mean he also has infinite chakra.

We don't know much about Minato, but we now know how his teleportation techinque works, and I have no doubts something like that can be copied, but Sasuke would need to get hold of Minato's special Kunai first. Even that wouldn't give Sasuke much of an edge because they are the same as Minato's, so in terms of teleportation and speed, they would end up in a stalemate. Minato is also able to send anything as powerful as a fully awakened Kyuubi's blast into an alternate dimension without a hassle. That said, it makes sense to assume Minato can do the same with Amaterasu. After all, that technique does not travel instantaneously as far as we can tell.

Secondly, can Minato overcome the effects of Tsukuyomi? There's no telling whether he can or not, but he could avoid direct eye contact with Sasuke before the Genjutsu takes effect. Additionally, Minato doesn't have to fight alone. It's been implied before that Minato also achieved Sage mode. Remember back to the time when Naruto returned to Konoha to fight Pain. The toads mentioned Naruto surpassed his predecessors, and considering the relation between Minato and Naruto, and the fact both were trained by Jiraya, it makes sense that Minato is also capable to use Sage mode. Should Minato be dragged into a Genjutsu, grandpa and grandma toad could pull him out of it (or any other toad he summons for that matter, he doesn't neccessarily need Sage mode for it).

So how could Minato deal with Susanoo? Minato's most powerful technique, as far as we know, is the Rasengan, and he has not been able to mix it with elemental manipulation. Thus, his technique is incomplete. Minato can perhaps defend himself from Susanoo's attacks with his space shift ability, but not knowing which element techniques he posesses makes it hard to tell what he could do against Susanoo. However, I don't see it beyond him to be able to summon multiple toads in addition to Sage mode (grandpa and grandma toad along with Gamabunta), so they can perhaps help him.

Ultimately, I think once it gets to the stage where Sasuke has to use Susanoo, it will be a war of attrition between them. As far as I can tell, the fight could go either way but I think the most important thing to know is that the winner will likely be the one with the greatest amount of chakra. My money's on Minato.

Last edited by Tsuyoshi; 2010-07-21 at 07:39.
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Old 2010-07-21, 09:37   Link #86
morbosfist
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Sasuke cannot copy Hiraishin. It doesn't use handseals. The Fourth just vanishes without a trace. The Sharingan cannot copy a technique without knowing how it is executed, which is why the Rasengan is beyond him.
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Old 2010-07-21, 09:49   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Sasuke cannot copy Hiraishin. It doesn't use handseals. The Fourth just vanishes without a trace. The Sharingan cannot copy a technique without knowing how it is executed, which is why the Rasengan is beyond him.
Assuming he could copy it, purely for the sake of argument, it wouldn't really give him much of an advantage anyways, not to mention I doubt Minato would let Sasuke get a hold of the Kunai as he would be able to teleport to wherever Sasuke is. So it would do Sasuke more harm than good to copy the technique, assuming that he can. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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Old 2010-07-21, 10:08   Link #88
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by Sonic n Tails View Post
WTF, just because Madara failed and got trolled by the 4th doesn't mean Sasuke will follow tu suite. The man is stronger than Itachi and Madara combined his his sharingan has far more potential than them. Sasuke would curbroll Minato because he's a part of the new generation that surpasses the old.

We don't even know what the heck Sasuke EMS does, all sharingan users are different from each other. Sasuke as a shinobi is destined to be stronger than everyone bar Naruto.

GTFO with your narutardism.
So... you are saying that Sasuke is stronger then Itachi... and even Madara... no wait... even combined. Hahah LoL.. now that's funny. You speak of the potential of Sasuke's eyes... so.. what of his body? Itachi clearly met his wall.

Also... just because Minato is part of a generation that is to be surpassed one day...it's going to be Sasuke? As far as we know... the biggest monster of all time was the Rikkodou Senin. The one who won and sealed the Jyuubi. If there is anyone to surpass that freak one day.... it would be Naruto. But that time may never come.

Anyway... in Minato's short lifespan... the time he had left. Sasuke may surpass him... i won't disagree. But that's one day. Right now and probably never will Sasuke or any Sharingan to be able to predict something that's instantanious.
Now... i don't want to sound all ridiculous but... Minato defeated Madara with his combination Hiraishin and Rasengan. He called it Hiraishin level 2. But... Minato doesnt have the Sharingan... yet at the perfect time... with a direct counter he was able to do it... in the end... we simply don't know their true abilities. Though Sasuke was never be able to touch Madara.

And Minato died so young that we can almost say... how powerfull would Minato become IF... he didn't die.
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Old 2010-07-21, 10:21   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
So... you are saying that Sasuke is stronger then Itachi... and even Madara... no wait... even combined. Hahah LoL.. now that's funny. You speak of the potential of Sasuke's eyes... so.. what of his body? Itachi clearly met his wall.

Also... just because Minato is part of a generation that is to be surpassed one day...it's going to be Sasuke? As far as we know... the biggest monster of all time was the Rikkodou Senin. The one who won and sealed the Jyuubi. If there is anyone to surpass that freak one day.... it would be Naruto. But that time may never come.

Anyway... in Minato's short lifespan... the time he had left. Sasuke may surpass him... i won't disagree. But that's one day. Right now and probably never will Sasuke or any Sharingan to be able to predict something that's instantanious.
Now... i don't want to sound all ridiculous but... Minato defeated Madara with his combination Hiraishin and Rasengan. He called it Hiraishin level 2. But... Minato doesnt have the Sharingan... yet at the perfect time... with a direct counter he was able to do it... in the end... we simply don't know their true abilities. Though Sasuke was never be able to touch Madara.

And Minato died so young that we can almost say... how powerfull would Minato become IF... he didn't die.
Minato = KURT COBAIN
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:26   Link #90
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by iBeast View Post
Minato = KURT COBAIN
I really don't get it. Who is that? And why the link?
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:34   Link #91
Who
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I really don't get it. Who is that? And why the link?
Long story short, lead singer/guitarist for Nirvana. Died pretty young as well.
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Old 2010-07-21, 17:03   Link #92
Mr. Johnny 5
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Long story short, lead singer/guitarist for Nirvana. Died pretty young as well.
Okay thanks
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Old 2010-07-22, 00:05   Link #93
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Hahah.. pretty funny to read above post.
Well basically, yes. Anyone who overhyped sasuke should be the remaining uchiha fanboy survivor...
The fact is.. THe masked guy is owned by Minato. Minato could even do more ( considering he'd already mark hm ). And since there are so many to protect and to handle at the same time, we don't have enough time to see Minato battle at his full strength ( all out attack ). We've seen his defense, .which is.. pretty excellent. But his attacking power at its full capability hadn't been shown just yet. That's why we can't argue how powerful Minato is. Or at least until Kishimoto released a battle card game-like with official character stats. ( just like the old Dragon Ball ).
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Old 2010-07-22, 08:26   Link #94
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The fight with Tobi was a load of BS.

He came up with an almost impossible plan to steal the Kyuubi, and pulled it off flawlessly. But when it was time to fight he instantly forgot his clever tactics and started fighting like a douche. Tobi saw with his own eyes that hiraishin was simply faster than his own space/time jutsu. He saw it twice before they even started fighting, but still didn't think to kill Minato with a different/faster technique. Minato is just an ordinary human. Stabbing him with a kunai would be enough to kill him. He even tried to catch Minato with a chain even after he saw that Minato can teleport. He basically switched his brain off as soon as he caught the Kyuubi.

He went through so much trouble to steal the Kyuubi, and then teleported away from his biggest trump card... like an idiot. He could have fought with the kyuubi side-by-side. Minato would have been forced to return and fight them both. There was no reason to follow Minato away from the Kyuubi, he wasn't going to run away.

Basically, the way Tobi fought was retarded. Both Naruto and Sasuke have fought much smarter than Tobi did, and it's hard to believe that the person who came up with the plan to steal the Kyuubi was the same person fighting Minato with absolutely no strategy and zero perception. I can only conclude that Tobi was severely dumbed down for this fight, or he is just dumb in general. Using Tobi as a measuring stick to gauge Minato's strength is pointless.
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Old 2010-07-22, 09:41   Link #95
Kenu
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Wrong thread
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Old 2010-07-22, 11:03   Link #96
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I don't think so.
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Old 2010-07-22, 11:43   Link #97
Mr. Johnny 5
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The fight with Tobi was a load of BS.

He came up with an almost impossible plan to steal the Kyuubi, and pulled it off flawlessly. But when it was time to fight he instantly forgot his clever tactics and started fighting like a douche. Tobi saw with his own eyes that hiraishin was simply faster than his own space/time jutsu. He saw it twice before they even started fighting, but still didn't think to kill Minato with a different/faster technique. Minato is just an ordinary human. Stabbing him with a kunai would be enough to kill him. He even tried to catch Minato with a chain even after he saw that Minato can teleport. He basically switched his brain off as soon as he caught the Kyuubi.

He went through so much trouble to steal the Kyuubi, and then teleported away from his biggest trump card... like an idiot. He could have fought with the kyuubi side-by-side. Minato would have been forced to return and fight them both. There was no reason to follow Minato away from the Kyuubi, he wasn't going to run away.

Basically, the way Tobi fought was retarded. Both Naruto and Sasuke have fought much smarter than Tobi did, and it's hard to believe that the person who came up with the plan to steal the Kyuubi was the same person fighting Minato with absolutely no strategy and zero perception. I can only conclude that Tobi was severely dumbed down for this fight, or he is just dumb in general. Using Tobi as a measuring stick to gauge Minato's strength is pointless.
Just think clearly for a moment. Madara and the Kyuubi fighting side by side?
Madara wanted to destory Konoha... the best way to do that is chaos. Not only that.... Madara clearly didn't want Minato to regroup with Sandaime. The only ones who could stop the Kyuubi were Kushina (out of the picture) and Minato.
Which is likely why he focussed himself on getting/capturing/killing the 4th.

Didn't Orochimaru do the same? Let the snakes loose (according to plan) while fighting the strongest. Sandaime Hokage.
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Old 2010-07-22, 11:59   Link #98
Vindi89
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Originally Posted by Casshern View Post
He went through so much trouble to steal the Kyuubi, and then teleported away from his biggest trump card... like an idiot. He could have fought with the kyuubi side-by-side.
You're forgetting Madara wanted to remain in the shadows, even as the masked Tobi.
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Old 2010-07-22, 16:13   Link #99
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@Johnny
Imo Tobi "should" have been way more effective fighting with the Kyuubi because he could take the defensive and only interrupt Minato whenever he tried to do something, while letting the Kyuubi do all the damage. However, I think that even the kyuubi was severely dumbed down for this fight. Remember that only half the kyuubi's chakra and only at 8 tails, was more than Pain could deal with, while Pain himself was able to destroy konoha unchallenged. The only difference would be Sarutobi, but I don't see how much more Sarutobi could have done against a full power kyuubi, when at less than half power the kyuubi easily overwhelmed Pain. The way I see it is: Full power Kyuubi > half power kyuubi > Pain > Konoha. I think it's crazy and inconsistent that Sarutobi, essentially alone, was able to push the kyuubi out of konoha. That's why I think the kyuubi was also severely dumbed down and another reason why imo Tobi and the Kyuubi, in this fight at least, can't be used as a measuring stick for Minato's strength.

@Vindi
I agree, but if he killed everyone he would still be in the shadows. If he just had to destroy konoha right then and there, no matter what, then fighting together with the kyuubi was his best bet imo. Personally I think he should have just taken the kyuubi and dissapeared.
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Old 2010-07-23, 04:21   Link #100
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Sasuke cannot copy Hiraishin. It doesn't use handseals. The Fourth just vanishes without a trace. The Sharingan cannot copy a technique without knowing how it is executed, which is why the Rasengan is beyond him.
From wiki

The Sharingan's third and most well-known ability is that it grants the user the ability to memorize any technique that he or she witnesses, apart from other Kekkei Genkai techniques. The user can memorize ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with near perfect accuracy, allowing the user to use the techniques as his own, or even modify them to create his own new techniques, much like Sasuke Uchiha's Lion Combo. In order to reproduce a copied jutsu, however, one must have the necessary skill or ability to perform them. A prime example is Rock Lee's brand of taijutsu. While Sasuke was able to copy some of Lee's moves, they put a much more significant strain on him since he hasn't trained nearly as much as Lee has. In addition to physical skill and kekkei genkai techniques, the Sharingan cannot reproduce jutsu dependent on other factors, such as summons that the user has not signed a contract with.

Sasuke has the abilty to reproduce the abilty by copying the basis of the techniques execution, hell Sasuke can even do the rasangan if he wanted because the sharingan can see the chakra and the execution of the technique cuz his sharingan is based on chakra honing and performing.

You don't need handseals to copy jutsu, the sharingan can copy anything accpect bloodline techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
So... you are saying that Sasuke is stronger then Itachi... and even Madara... no wait... even combined. Hahah LoL.. now that's funny. You speak of the potential of Sasuke's eyes... so.. what of his body? Itachi clearly met his wall.
I said he would surpass them later, but overall he will surpass them in general because thats the shounen recuirement for shounen characters like Sasuke. You act like Sasuke is inferior to Itachi and Madara because you see nothing but failure from him and you probably hate him, but it doesn't change the fact Sasuke is destined to surpass his benchmarks like Naruto.

Quote:
Also... just because Minato is part of a generation that is to be surpassed one day...it's going to be Sasuke? As far as we know... the biggest monster of all time was the Rikkodou Senin. The one who won and sealed the Jyuubi. If there is anyone to surpass that freak one day.... it would be Naruto. But that time may never come.
Sasuke is supposed to surpass Pain(Reincarnaton of RS). This is stated by the main villain. It is also the most probably since Naruto and Sasuke will have to fight eventually and use all their powers to the fullest when the series ends marking them the successors of the old generation.

Quote:
Anyway... in Minato's short lifespan... the time he had left. Sasuke may surpass him... i won't disagree. But that's one day. Right now and probably never will Sasuke or any Sharingan to be able to predict something that's instantanious.
Like I said, Sasuke is not Madara(he's got more potential than him), you don't know what he can and can't do since he's not stoped developing or growing in power or skill. He's still got alot of potential and abilites he and Kishi hasn't displayed before.
Quote:
Now... i don't want to sound all ridiculous but... Minato defeated Madara with his combination Hiraishin and Rasengan. He called it Hiraishin level 2. But... Minato doesnt have the Sharingan... yet at the perfect time... with a direct counter he was able to do it... in the end... we simply don't know their true abilities.
First of all, Madara was still the weakend shallow self he discribed himself when he fought the 4th. Madara used no jutsu in this fight but S/P stuff, Itachi discribed him as much more than this, even said he was an invincible immotral and unparreleled beyond the shinobi world. Minato said he was the only one who saw through everything he did and called him the meance of the world. It's safe to say Madara wasn't at his prime in this fight, and his whole fighting style was probably weakend and broken by his fight with the 1st.
Quote:
Though Sasuke was never be able to touch Madara.
Unfair comparison, plus Naruto couldn't touch him either, Minato specically told him he must have more abilites than what he has now to stand toe to toe with him.

Quote:
And Minato died so young that we can almost say... how powerfull would Minato become IF... he didn't die.
You can say the same about any Uchiha that was at the top of their prime. Itachi would have probably killed Madara by now if he didn't have such an illness and many handicaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodok_balls View Post
Hahah.. pretty funny to read above post.
Well basically, yes. Anyone who overhyped sasuke should be the remaining uchiha fanboy survivor...
The fact is.. THe masked guy is owned by Minato. Minato could even do more ( considering he'd already mark hm ). And since there are so many to protect and to handle at the same time, we don't have enough time to see Minato battle at his full strength ( all out attack ). We've seen his defense, .which is.. pretty excellent. But his attacking power at its full capability hadn't been shown just yet. That's why we can't argue how powerful Minato is. Or at least until Kishimoto released a battle card game-like with official character stats. ( just like the old Dragon Ball ).
Read my above post.
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